בשיחה שמסר הגאון רבי גרשון אדלשטיין, הוא הסביר מדוע
חרדי חייב לשמור על ההנחיות ולהתחשב בדעת החילונים; 'שיאמרו אשרי מי שלמד
תורה, אשרי מי שהוא חרדי'. צפו (ארץ)
Once upon a time, Chilul HaShem was "Don't do something the Gentiles will think is stupid". Now it's "The Gentiles are so corrupt that doing something they think is stupid is a Kiddush haShem!"
Almost. But its a bit different. For the uninitiated, ultra frum jews are respected and expected to behave like angels. However, they don't always fulfill this ideal, and instead behave like behemos. So to fix this disparity, the instruction is to try to behave at least according to the law of the land, and then you will be respected again.
most of the comments I read in English newspapers, after the Hareidi wedding in Stamford hill, were extremely critical of them. A few, maybe 1 or 2, said that it was a good way of living, enjoying every day, with no care for tomorrow. This was essentially the Epicurean way to life.
It is very interesting, since Epicure, who was a Gadol of the Stoics, was where the word Epicuros comes from. hareidim behave and live like the original apikorus, and still claim to be Orthodox Jews!
You know when this became obvious? Rubashkin. His biggest defence was "I was just doing what everyone else in my position does but they picked on me because of anti-Semitism!" Again - just doing what everyone else is doing. When it came to the hechsher on his food, he only chose the best. The strings for his tallis? The best. But when it came to business ethics, he wallowed in the low standard that was prevalent. Didn't have to be the best there. And here we are with what's going on in Israel. We're just doing what everyone else does. Why are you picking on us? Because you're supposed to be doing better than everyone else does.
A few years ago, the mass funerals for gedolim started killing people in the stampedes (like what happens in mecca every year). Now they have corona funerals, less participants, but still endangering life. But the defence, even made by dati leumi folk, is that it's no worse than the secular protests against bibi! So again, the benchmark is comparison to secular Jews and non Jews. Is this the mussar of learning gemara for years, in order to be no better or worse than the chilonim they despise?
It should be added that many chilonim also have dangerous pastimes, sports, swimming, travel etc where tragic accidents happen. But mass funerals are becoming cultish - and are dangerous events - they are presumably forbidden by Halacha because of sakkanat nefesh.
The other thing is that when you confront Chilonim about their mass gatherings, they admit it's stupid to gather. The protests admit there's a danger but accept it because of the perceived threat to the State if they don't. But the Chareidi response is "There's no danger!"
Not sure, I don't like to bash one group just for the sake it. Perhaps they view it as part of their (mis)conception of Torah, and thus everything is yehareg v'lo Yaavor. It is a totally false and misleading interpretation of Halacha, but that is more their shtick - also they have bitachon they will be protected. No - if you are Daniel, Mishael, Azzariah and Hananiah, then perhaps you can survive certain death situations, but they were really the last figures in Jewish history who saw miracles above the rules on physics and nature. (unless you accept Yashke, who allegedly came back after 3 days).
Daniel's time with the lions can be explained rationally - he could be a lion tamer, a hypnotist, or had alredy soem experience with them, while working for the king, and they considered him as part of the pack.
The statistics show that in israel, 1% of the elder hareidi population (i think over 65s) have died of Covid.
This proves several things:
1) that the hareidi ideology of hating all secular knowledge, and the intelligence that comes out of blasphemous instutions (eg Universities) is translating into action. 2) that the acid hareidim ( i take that from a term appied to extreme punk music - acid punk) who attacked Zionism becasue of the high casualty rate of wars (1% were killed in the 1948 war of Independence) have now succeeded in Darwin prize and achieved such a terrible figure from their apathy for no cause.
3) The old adage that everything that Hareidi thought and leadership has done for the past 100-200 years has been wrong and to the detriment of Am Yisrael, and themselves.
Once upon a time, Chilul HaShem was "Don't do something the Gentiles will think is stupid". Now it's "The Gentiles are so corrupt that doing something they think is stupid is a Kiddush haShem!"
ReplyDeleteAlmost.
ReplyDeleteBut its a bit different.
For the uninitiated, ultra frum jews are respected and expected to behave like angels. However, they don't always fulfill this ideal, and instead behave like behemos.
So to fix this disparity, the instruction is to try to behave at least according to the law of the land, and then you will be respected again.
most of the comments I read in English newspapers, after the Hareidi wedding in Stamford hill, were extremely critical of them. A few, maybe 1 or 2, said that it was a good way of living, enjoying every day, with no care for tomorrow. This was essentially the Epicurean way to life.
ReplyDeleteIt is very interesting, since Epicure, who was a Gadol of the Stoics, was where the word Epicuros comes from. hareidim behave and live like the original apikorus, and still claim to be Orthodox Jews!
You know when this became obvious? Rubashkin. His biggest defence was "I was just doing what everyone else in my position does but they picked on me because of anti-Semitism!" Again - just doing what everyone else is doing.
ReplyDeleteWhen it came to the hechsher on his food, he only chose the best. The strings for his tallis? The best. But when it came to business ethics, he wallowed in the low standard that was prevalent. Didn't have to be the best there.
And here we are with what's going on in Israel. We're just doing what everyone else does. Why are you picking on us?
Because you're supposed to be doing better than everyone else does.
A few years ago, the mass funerals for gedolim started killing people in the stampedes (like what happens in mecca every year).
ReplyDeleteNow they have corona funerals, less participants, but still endangering life. But the defence, even made by dati leumi folk, is that it's no worse than the secular protests against bibi! So again, the benchmark is comparison to secular Jews and non Jews. Is this the mussar of learning gemara for years, in order to be no better or worse than the chilonim they despise?
It should be added that many chilonim also have dangerous pastimes, sports, swimming, travel etc where tragic accidents happen. But mass funerals are becoming cultish - and are dangerous events - they are presumably forbidden by Halacha because of sakkanat nefesh.
The other thing is that when you confront Chilonim about their mass gatherings, they admit it's stupid to gather. The protests admit there's a danger but accept it because of the perceived threat to the State if they don't.
ReplyDeleteBut the Chareidi response is "There's no danger!"
Not sure, I don't like to bash one group just for the sake it. Perhaps they view it as part of their (mis)conception of Torah, and thus everything is yehareg v'lo Yaavor.
ReplyDeleteIt is a totally false and misleading interpretation of Halacha, but that is more their shtick - also they have bitachon they will be protected.
No - if you are Daniel, Mishael, Azzariah and Hananiah, then perhaps you can survive certain death situations, but they were really the last figures in Jewish history who saw miracles above the rules on physics and nature. (unless you accept Yashke, who allegedly came back after 3 days).
What's more, Mishael, Azzariah and Hananiah didn't expect miracles when they jumped into the furnace.
ReplyDeletehmm, they didn't have a choice.
ReplyDeleteDaniel's time with the lions can be explained rationally - he could be a lion tamer, a hypnotist, or had alredy soem experience with them, while working for the king, and they considered him as part of the pack.
The statistics show that in israel, 1% of the elder hareidi population (i think over 65s) have died of Covid.
ReplyDeleteThis proves several things:
1) that the hareidi ideology of hating all secular knowledge, and the intelligence that comes out of blasphemous instutions (eg Universities) is translating into action.
2) that the acid hareidim ( i take that from a term appied to extreme punk music - acid punk) who attacked Zionism becasue of the high casualty rate of wars (1% were killed in the 1948 war of Independence) have now succeeded in Darwin prize and achieved such a terrible figure from their apathy for no cause.
3) The old adage that everything that
Hareidi thought and leadership has done for the past 100-200 years has been wrong and to the detriment of Am Yisrael, and themselves.