The slander lawsuit brought against me in Israel by convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg is well into its third year and the next hearing in this case will be October 25, 2018 in Jerusalem.
I will be honored to be there defending the right of Israeli children whose parents desperately need to be warned when sex offenders like Weinberg, (who iscurrently living freely in Israel and no one seems to know where he is), move near them.
What is most remarkable on a personal level is how so many thousands of Jews worldwide feel a personal connection to this saga. Everywhere I go, people inquire about it and express genuine solidarity with this effort.
To all of you, thank you for your interest and caring, and we will use this email list and social media to keep you updated.
Its a shame Horowitz didn't meet me, I'd be happy to tell him he doesn't represent me.
ReplyDeleteYaakov Horowitz, you’re bringing honor and good name to yourself and to all Israel. This week’s parsha, Ki Tavo, we read:
ReplyDelete“Look down from Your holy abode, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel and the soil You have given us, a land flowing with milk and honey, as You swore to our fathers. The Lord your God commands you this day to observe these laws and rules; observe them faithfully with all your heart and soul. You have affirmed this day that the Lord is your God, that you will walk in His ways, that you will observe His laws and commandments and rules, and that you will obey Him. And the Lord has affirmed this day that you are, as He promised you, His treasured people who shall observe all His commandments, and that He will set you, in fame and renown and glory, high above all the nations that He has made; and that you shall be, as He promised, a holy people to the Lord your God” (Deuteronomy 26:15-19).
Yaakov Horowitz, the Israeli courts are grabbing you by your ears. This is my letter today to the NYS Ct of Appeals:
1.I request permission to submit these papers concerning my motion 2018--840 8/20/2018. I'm attaching an affidavit of service proving I mailed by UPS a true copy to Susan and to Kings County Supreme Court, Matrimonial Division. I attach Exhibit A: Susan Opposition Papers January 4, 2015 and Exhibit B: Susan package sent to NYS Court of Appeals 6/19/2017: Letter to Judge Prus and Judge Rigler Order 9/12/2000.
2.Judge Prus had no good reason to accept/calendar case 54688/2012 in view of my cases 23213/1991 and 46412/1992 This is Etrack of these 3 cases…
3.Exhibit A: Susan Opposition Papers January 4, 2015 all lies, e.g. \P 7 that Judge Rigler's March 7, 1995 Judgment of Separation was issued and affirmed by the Appellative Division nearly twenty years ago etc
4.Exhibit B: Susan package sent to NYS Court of Appeals 6/19/2017: Letter to Judge Prus and Judge Rigler Order 9/12/2000 on page 3 shows: under cc: John P. Asiello, Clerk NYS Court of Appeals. Rigler says that the decade old separation must end. This is proof that there never was a March 7, 1995 Rigler Order of Separation.
5.Judge Prus had no good reason to accept and to hear 54688/2012. The status of Susan is not his business, and not NYS's business. I quote the Bible: “A passerby who gets embroiled in someone else's quarrel Is like one who seizes a dog by its ears. Like a madman scattering deadly firebrands, arrows, Is one who cheats his fellow and says, “I was only joking.” For lack of wood a fire goes out, And without a querulous man contention is stilled. Charcoal for embers and wood for a fire And a contentious man for kindling strife. The words of a querulous man are bruising; They penetrate one's inmost parts” (Proverbs 26:17-22).
6.Susan and I were fighting like 2 dogs in 23213/1991 and 46412/1992. Judge Prus in accepting 54688/2012 is like one who interferes in a fight not his own, by grabbing a dog by its ears. He grabbed me by my ears, awarding Susan the house and a permanent 55% of my TIAA pension, ignoring Judge Sand etc.
feel fre e to write guest post explaining
ReplyDeleteNot my trial either. I am not familiar with either person mentioned in this article but until Mr. Horowitz takes an equal interest in the many false accusations and develops a more balanced sense of justice on this topic, then it is impossible for him to truly represent the children.
ReplyDeleteSome sins deserving lashes are abhorrent even to gentiles, but Rashi points out in last week's portion that the Torah calls him "YOUR BROTHER" after #39 and FORBIDS another lash "lest YOUR BROTHER be denigrated in your eyes". We chose to use the authorities, not the Rabbis, who have already punished this man: should Horowitz be allowed to exaggerate and tell lies about him? Should Horowitz advocate punishing this person again? That is the question the Court must answer in Israel, and I believe Horowitz will lose on this question of secular law: not because of the Torah, but because secular law AGREES with the Torah on this point. Horowitz admits he did more than warn, so he cannot retreat from the exaggerations and lies he told about the Plaintiff - no matter where his heart truly is. But why isn't Horowitz talking about what is currently going on in our community? Why isn't he asking for other victims of Bryks to come forward? Why isn't Horowitz talking about the Bais Yaakov scandal? Why isn't Horowitz begging for more victims of Kleinman to come forward and pushing for the community to support them? Why isn't Horowitz asking for physical protection for other victims of Daskal? Like the other commenters on your blog and other sites, I also agree that it's disingenuous to ignore the more than FOUR CASES currently happening in NY and focus on someone irrelevant. If the cops in Israel can find a terrorist at a barbecue by their cousin's house, they can easily keep tabs on a family man with a wife and children who probably have more consistent work and school schedules. Horowitz should admit he was wrong, apologize and do his work here in NY.
ReplyDeleteWhat lies did Horowitz say?
ReplyDeleteThe news reports indicate that YONA WEINBERG is a SEX OFFENDER. The media is also reporting that YONA WEINBERG would be ARRESTED if he is in New York.
Here is the letter from the NYPD which says as much:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1A9RZlgXZu2wu8m3qoVR9-ryJaHbNlaXJ
Oh, and your comment about "a family man with a wife and children".
His wife and kids live 5k miles away now, and have for about a year.
Perhaps he should finally go and give her a GET already. It isn't very nice or ethical not to under these conditions.
Perhaps the blogger on this site will take Yona's position on the GET situation.
Bravo: “I will be honored to be there defending the right of Israeli children whose parents desperately need to be warned when sex offenders like Weinberg, (who is currently living freely in Israel and no one seems to know where he is), move near them.”
ReplyDeleteYou, Yacov Horowitz are defending the people of Israel. See
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Generic/Generic/SendPrint?print=1&type=1&item=22655
“What do you call a media who considers every policy accomplishment and success to be a sham while the American people who do benefit from that ‘sham’ are happier than ever and clearly don’t understand the media’s ugly bias and disrespect? Just look at the names that are prominent in today’s political arena and whose non-stop attacks against President Trump are hailed by the media as ‘pearls of wisdom.’ The conclusion should be obvious. Maxine Waters, clueless Alexandra Casio-Cortez, Socialist/Communist Bernie Sanders, crocodile-tears Chuck Schumer or Elizabeth Warren are just a few that come to mind. Yet the media never disputes their outrageous claims, their incitement to violence or their false sense of indignant morality. Nary a word of criticism. Why? What do I call the media? Don’t make me laugh. It’s obvious. The majority of Americans are sick and tired of the ugly conspiracy to destroy the president, a campaign led, nurtured and driven by the media, the same media that has turned Americans against it and now begs to differ. It’s too late. Enough! Three-hundred editorials (or six-hundred, if it comes to it) in its own defense don’t change the ugly fact that President Trump is right. The verdict? No contest. The mainstream US media IS the enemy of the people.”
Yaacov Horowitz is facing a court in Jerusalem that has an agenda, I’m sorry to say, they hate right wing anything. This is similar to much of the media in America who is so hateful of Trump. The fake media is the enemy of the people.
I read David Schwartz
David Schwartz asks: “should Horowitz be allowed to exaggerate and tell lies about him? Should Horowitz advocate punishing this person again?” Why are you, David Schwartz, attacking the religious? “Why isn't he asking for other victims of Bryks to come forward? Why isn't Horowitz talking about the Bais Yaakov scandal? Why isn't Horowitz begging for more victims of Kleinman to come forward and pushing for the community to support them? Why isn't Horowitz asking for physical protection for other victims of Daskal?”
Pardon me Sir, but I may have made myself misunderstood. I made 3 points: 1) If we've already agreed to SECULAR justice, we cannot justify our behavior after his conviction with RELIGION and; 2) certainly when it is AGAINST civil secular [and Jewish] law to make up stories about people. The final point I made was that powerful people in our own, LOCAL communities are being accused of FELONY RAPE. We should be focusing our time and energies on helping the victims in our own communities and leave the more than competent Israeli Police to take care of their own people. RELIGION is NOT on trial: Horowitz, himself, is on trial for things he posted and said. Hiding behind religion in Israel, when his behavior is blatantly inconsistent in New York, smacks of being disingenuous.
ReplyDeleteWhere does Yakov Horowitz believe Weinberg should be required to live?
ReplyDelete“The slander lawsuit brought against me in Israel by convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg is well into its third year and the next hearing in this case will be October 25, 2018 in Jerusalem.”
ReplyDeleteYona Weinberg has to prove his slander lawsuit. Don’t give up Yacov Horowitz. You will win. The agenda of the Left Jerusalem court is not really relevant. Daattorah, allow me to show here my letter today to the NYS courts:
1.I request permission to submit these papers concerning my motion 2018--840 8/20/2018. I'm attaching an affidavit of service proving I mailed by UPS a true copy to Susan and to Kings County Supreme Court, Matrimonial Division. I attach Exhibit A: Decision of the Jerusalem Bet Din January 21, 1993.
2.Judge Prus had no good reason to accept/calendar case 54688/2012 in view of my cases 23213/1991 and 46412/1992. Judge Prus had no good reason to accept and to hear 54688/2012. The status of Susan is not his business, and not NYS's business.
3.According to Jewish law the wife is required to join the husband on moving to Israel. In 1989 Susan signed Aliya papers that she wants to live in Jerusalem. In 1992 she went to Rabbi Ralbag's bet din court in NYS to seek a get from me which I gave her through the offices of the Jerusalem Court, on 2/17/1993 before witnesses in Rabbi Ralbag's bet din court. See Exhibit A: Decision of the Jerusalem Bet Din January 21, 1993. To seek a NYS civil divorce in 54688/2012, Susan has to prove I'm lying. She never did, thank God.
4.Judge Prus had no personal jurisdiction over me and Susan and over the subject matter of divorce with the completion of cases 23213/1991 and 46412/1992. Judge Prus in accepting 54688/2012 is like one who interferes in a fight not his own, by grabbing a dog by its ears. He grabbed me by my ears, awarding Susan the house and a permanent 55% of my TIAA pension, ignoring Judge Sand etc.
5.The Judgment of Divorce Judge Prus signed 9/10/2013 states: “…pursuant to D.R.L. \S170 (5).” D.R.L. \S170 (5) states: “The husband and wife have lived apart pursuant to a decree or judgment of separation for a period of one or more years after the granting of such decree or judgment, and satisfactory proof has been submitted by the plaintiff that he or she has substantially performed all the terms and conditions of such decree or judgment.”
6.On the internet: “The contested divorce is the type in which the spouses cannot arrive at an agreement on one or more key issues in order to conclusively terminate their marriage. When spouses cannot arrive at an agreement, even with the assistance of their legal counsel (if any), they must approach a court to adjudicate their dispute.”
7.Clearly the get I sent from the Jerusalem bet din court to Susan, conclusively terminated my marriage to Susan. I quote the Bible: “A man takes a wife and possesses her. She fails to please him because he finds something obnoxious about her, and he writes her a bill of divorcement, hands it to her, and sends her away from his house; she leaves his household and becomes the wife of another man” (Deuteronomy 24:1-2).
8.The default position in Jewish law is that forced gittin are forbidden. Susan is an activist for forced gittin for many years. There may be an agenda in NYS courts supporting forced gittin. All this is irrelevant to my case since I gave Susan, on her
The issue is not where he lives. The issue is that wherever he lives, those that live nearby should be aware of his history so that they can protect their children.
ReplyDeleteSo he's okay with Weinberg living anywhere so long as neighbors know his history?
ReplyDeleteYou would have to ask him, but the action he took was notifying the neighbors so that they could protect themselves. Though if it is correct that the police want Weinberg for questioning, I would guess that he would prefer, as would I, that Weinberg go back to New York and get tossed in jail.
ReplyDeleteThe misdemeanor he's wanted for questioning in New York are not for sexual actions. So why your presumption if guilt and, even if guilty of misdemeanor assault, why your gung-ho toss the Jew into prison attitude?
ReplyDeleteBecause unrepentant abusers should be locked away for a very long time.
ReplyDeleteRepentance should be a factor in sentencing?
ReplyDelete1: When someone is unrepentant, the fact that he has served his sentence does not give me much sympathy for him, and if he can be locked up on other charges, all the better.
ReplyDelete2: In bein adam lechaveiro, it starts, at the minimum, with requesting forgiveness from people one has harmed.
On what basis do you assert his kids live in a different country?
ReplyDelete1st hand knowledge.
ReplyDeleteThis wasn't much of a secret to the schools the kids went to
Your comment is on point as RELIGIOUS opinion, but Horowitz is being sued in SECULAR court for Defamation tby harassment and cyber-bullying. Harassment, by calling Plaintiff a felon and a rapist while asking people to dox him and pressure officials for his extradition - claiming he escaped the US with an active warrant; online bullying, by engaging with and giving platform to people advocating to physically hurt Plaintiff and get at him through his immediate family. Horowitz's hurdles in a religious court would still be halachically validating the conviction and proving he's unrepentant to justify THAT level of Lashon Hora. On the SECULAR side, Horowitz's defense won't even get off the ground if he doesn't bring in an actual Warrant. That letter, even if validated by the author, would only show a complaint. The author still needs to show the complaint happened prior to Plaintiff's leaving the United States 5-6 years ago and that there was a Warrant for his arrest when he left. This is not easy for Horowitz, but it still isn't anyone's trial but his own.
ReplyDeleteI agree “It Really Is Our Trial By Rabbi Yakov Horowitz”
ReplyDeleteI don’t know details. Yakov Horowitz, please give me the case number and the court. I’d like to see what proofs Yona Weinberg brings to the court to support his libel suit against you, now 3-years! The burden of proof is on him. He’s the plaintiff and you, Yakov Horowitz, are the defendant.
Plainly David Schwartz and Bo etc support Yona Weinberg. I ask David Schwartz and Bo etc is it appropriate/necessary/ok Yakov Weinberg’s defense? Why not allow Yakov Weinberg to handle his defense as he wishes? What’s it to you? “A passerby who gets embroiled in someone else’s quarrel Is like one who seizes a dog by its ears” (Proverbs 26:17).
משלי פרק כו פסוק יז
מַחֲזִיק בְּאָזְנֵי כָלֶב עֹבֵר מִתְעַבֵּר עַל רִיב לֹּא לוֹ
You, David Schwartz and Bo etc, are seizing Yakov Weinberg by the ears. I see similarities between Yakov Weinberg’s defense and my effort to overturn Judge Prus’ signing a NYS civil divorce between me and Susan 9/10/2013. Where is the proof on the part of the plaintiffs? I also see similarities how Susan behaves in NYS courts and in her defense of the K-G heter and Tamar is free etc.
May I show you the signed decision of the head secretary of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem 28 Tevet 5753 (January 21, 1993) to Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag Agudas Harabanim U.S.A.
ReplyDeleteThis is my proof that Judge Prus had no authority to sign a NYS civil divorce me and Susan 9/10/2013. Any comments? Judge Prus insults Israel etc. I’m brining honor and good name to Israel.
Here is the document, Hebrew with my English translation
ReplyDelete2nd try to upload document
ReplyDeleteGood sir, your being the most frequent of commenters on this blog makes your judgement a bit surprising. One of the underlying themes of this blog is that it is appropriate to speak about and criticize our leaders in a respectful manner. In the same vein, I am not saying that I do not support Horowitz and/or anything/everything he stands for. What I am saying is that Horowitz seems disingenuous by ignoring the more serious problems locally and can lose in a secular court in Israel solely based on my understanding of Law. The proof are his various statements which have already been shown by the Plaintiff. Please do not confuse my personal opinions as showing any disdain for Horowitz; as this blog is proof, you can respect someone for who they are while respectfully disagreeing with and calling them out on it.
ReplyDeleteWe will see what happens in court. I will say only that I think it is preferable to err on the side of protecting potential future victims, even at the cost of making a molester's life less comfortable.
ReplyDelete“The slander lawsuit brought against me in Israel by convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg is well into its third year”
ReplyDeleteInternet:
“Slander = the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.”
“Slander falls under the legal category of personal injury within civil, or tort, law. Slander is a subcategory of defamation, which happens when someone attacks your good character by communicating untrue statements.”
Convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg has to prove that Rabbi Yakov Horowitz made a false spoken statement damaging to convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg 's reputation. Convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg has to prove 1) that he suffered personal injury with an attack on his good character and )2 by Rabbi Yakov Horowitz communicating untrue statements. Without convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg proving both 1) and 2), any guilty verdict, Heaven forbid, a higher court in Jerusalem will surely overturn. I’m waiting now for the NYS Court of Appeals to overturn Judge Prus signing the ridiculous 9/10/2013 NYS civil divorce of me and Susan. I have the odd feeling that many people are on convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg’s side. Why is this? I have the odd feeling that many people are on Susan’s side. Why is this?
What was Rabbi Ralbag's role in your divorce proceedings?
ReplyDeleteMoe Ginsburg says “What was Rabbi Ralbag's role in your divorce proceedings?”
ReplyDeleteRabbi Aryeh Ralbag along with Rabbi Mendel Epstein et al and the rabbis of ORA are supporters of Susan’s activities in matters of forced gittin. Judge Freida Wolfson granted Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag immunity for Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag’s testimony on how he ran his bet din.
Will the NYS Court of Appeals disbar Judge Prus and Susan’s lawyer Myla Serlin? Whew, thank God, I made aliya in 1991. Thank you, God, for being so good to me. I’m a Cohain and I bless the people every day, never missing, and say afterwards, from this week’s parsha: “Look down from Your holy abode, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel and the soil You have given us, a land flowing with milk and honey, as You swore to our fathers.” (Deuteronomy 26:15).
How do you know he is unrepentant?
ReplyDeleteHas he apologized to his victims?
ReplyDeleteAnswering a question with a question means that you do not know. Do you mean to say he has not apologized to his victims and that you know this for a fact? If so, how do you know this? Do you know the children that he was convicted of molesting? The families?
ReplyDeleteSorry, but it doesn't work that way. The default assumption is that an action has not been taken.
ReplyDeleteIf you can supply evidence that he has apologized to them, I am totally open to hearing it.
And if he's unrepentant? What difference does it make? He served his time. That's the end of it.
ReplyDeleteWho says apologizing to the victim is necessary?
In that veil, n the criminal justice system should be thrown out for a vague, feel good type of judgement where people get sent to jail because other people feel they should.
ReplyDeleteThankfully you're not a judge and executor.
ReplyDeleteMr. Horowitz destroyed his credibility when he stuck up for the accusers of Weberman and allowed the justice system to utilize a burden of proof that can be used against any educator, in any yeshiva, anywhere.
ReplyDeleteHe's a useful idiot and should be ostracized as such.
We've discussed this a number of times.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that sex offender lists are constitutional or Torah values. I don't believe that they have anything to do with preventing crime.
Do we have alerts for former burglars?
Murderers? Thieves? Scammers? Drunk drivers? Charlatans of any kind? No, no, and no again. I'm actually very happy that Israel doesn't have the list.
I think it's a way of harassing people forever and it is simply wrong.
I firmly believe that after someone has serve time for doing wrong to society, Society may not punish him further.
And no, I don't buy into the myth that a sex abuse victim is worse off then a murder victim. And no, I don't believe that sex abuse victims are emotionally scarred for life without Redemption. And no, I don't believe that one of four boys are sexually molested in our schools.
YitzchokM says: “I don't believe that sex offender lists are constitutional or Torah values. I don't believe that they have anything to do with preventing crime. Do we have alerts for former burglars? Murderers? Thieves? Scammers? Drunk drivers? Charlatans of any kind? No, no, and no again. I'm actually very happy that Israel doesn't have the list. I think it's a way of harassing people forever and it is simply wrong.”
ReplyDeleteWho’s harassing whom? I say that the Jerusalem Court has no authority to hear the slander lawsuit of convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg against Rabbi Yakov Horowitz. It’s the Jerusalem Court that’s harassing Rabbi Yakov Horowitz. The Jerusalem Court probably agrees with YitzchokM’s hostility to Rabbi Yakov Horowitz. The Torah says that judges “nor shall you show deference to a poor man in his dispute.” (Exodus 23:3). The Jerusalem Court is showing deference to convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg. In the K-G heter Rabbis Kamenitsky and Greenblatt show deference to Tamar etc. In my case NYS Court of Appeals motion 840 of 8/20/2018 Judge Prus shows deference to Susan, my ex-wife, whom I divorced on her initiative 2/17/1993. Follow YitzchokM? “A passerby who gets embroiled in someone else’s quarrel Is like one who seizes a dog by its ears” (Proverbs 26:17). The issue on the table is
“It Really Is Our Trial By Rabbi Yakov Horowitz The slander lawsuit brought against me in Israel by convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg is well into its third year and the next hearing in this case will be October 25, 2018 in Jerusalem.”
How about we try having a conversation that does not involve your ex-wife or your personal story. How about that? And then we'll be able to discuss other matters as well.
ReplyDeleteDeal?
YitzchokM says “How about we try having a conversation that does not involve your ex-wife or your personal story. How about that? And then we'll be able to discuss other matters as well. Deal?”
ReplyDeleteNo.
The 3 cases are similar/related/same: 1) “The slander lawsuit brought against me in Israel by convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg is well into its third year” Convicted sex offender Yona Weinberg is already damaged/injured by his convictions so he has no basis for a slander lawsuit. 2) The divorcee Susan Aranoff plaintiff opens a file against me December 2012 for a NYS civil divorce. The divorcee Susan Aranoff has no basis for seeking a NYS civil divorce with her phony/fake 1995 Rigler Order of Separation etc. 3) Wayward rabbis permit Tamar, the standing wife of Aaron, to marry Adam Fleischer without a divorce. These standing rabbis, ORA, K-G etc have no basis for their heter with their phony/fake PhD psychology letter etc. Follow YitzchokM, Bo, and Yehoshua and Eddie?
No, don't follow. And so, I'm only going to reply to point 1, since it's relevant to our discussion. The rest is rambling in your end.
ReplyDeleteI don't think your hypothesis is correct, that if a person is slandered at any given point, slander laws don't apply anymore. There is an exception for public officials and the like, people who are extremely well-known and their lives are on full display to others, that it's much harder to slander them. YW does not fit the bill.
YitzchokM says”No, don't follow. And so, I'm only going to reply to point 1, since it's relevant to our discussion. The rest is rambling in your end. I don't think your hypothesis is correct, that if a person is slandered at any given point, slander laws don't apply anymore.”
ReplyDeleteI cite my comment at http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/06/rav-yisroel-reismans-psak-it-is-redifus.html#disqus_thread
Baba Kama 35a:
Mishnah. If an ox was pursuing [rodef] an other's ox which was [afterwards found to be] injured, and the one [plaintiff] says, it was your ox that did the damage, while the other pleads, not so, but it was injured by a rock [against which it had been rubbing itself [Denying thus any liability]. The burden of proof lies on the claimant. [so also] where two [oxen] pursued one and the one defendant asserts, it was your ox that did the damage, while the other defendant asserts, it was your ox that did the damage…
From the gamara we see that merely to pursue (rodef) means nothing. The evidence, witnesses, testifying that that one ox pursued (rodef) a 2nd ox means nothing without evidence that the 1st ox caused the injury. The 2nd ox is found afterwards injured. I pray that this unfortunate convicted sex offender suffers no injury. For him to win in gamara case, he would have to prove injury and then prove that our dear-highly respected Rabbi Eidensohn directly caused that injury, Heaven forbid.
My hypothesis, Sir YitzchokM is that the convicted sex offender has to prove that Rabbi Yakov Horowitz caused him injury, damage to his good name and reputation (slander etc). His conviction damaged him greatly. See, it’s preposterous that the convicted sex offender will win in his Jerusalem slander lawsuit. Likewise, it’s preposterous the business of the fake/phony PhD psychology letter and the fake/phony 1995 Rigler Order of Separation. Follow, YitzchokM?