update - added second document
weiss insider • comment
Why don't we clarify for the record and define why an order of protection was given in the first place and how the order of protection was violated according to Rivky's allegations on a number of occasions.
The order of protection was issued based on the concerns of Rivky that she was afraid Yoel would harm her based on the accusations she claimed against him.
She got 1 OPP from the family court and each time Yoel was arrested she got another Criminal Order of Protection, all the OPP's stem from the initial complaint she filed with the family court.
The first time he violated his OOP was when he was not served with the initial OOP, and he was searching for her as any normal husband would do when they come home at night and don't find their wife and children at home as expected, The police asked him to come to the precient and after hearing from him they scolded Rivky for not serving the OPP, and let Yoel go.
The 2nd time Yoel violated the OPP was when he drove by a block where he saw his son walking with his wife, he rolled down the window and waived hello, the next day he was arrested for violating the OPP.
the 3rd time Yoel violated the OPP was when he went into Eichlers book store on 13th Ave, and Rivky happened to be in there, she called the police and stated Yoel was stalking her.
The 4th time Yoel violated the OPP was when he was driving his car on his parents block and made a right turn and Rivky happened to be working at that corner, she called the police and said Yoel violated his OPP by passing by her.
At that time Yoel obtained a OPP that way Rivky cant come near him and then in affect she could be arrested just as easily, at that time Rivky tried numerous attempts to reach out to Yoel through 3rd parties to try and medieate, those attempts did not move anywhere.
Then out of the thin air Mr Bamberger called saying he heard that there are issues and he would like to reach out to both parties and see if he can help, "miraculously" Rivky agreed to drop the OPP, but stated that the criminal OPP will take her some time to remove but she's working on it.
When Yoel began his communications with Mr. Bamberger, both Yoel and Rivky dropped their OPP at the same time, but not the Criminal OPP which stemmed from the violation of the family OPP that she dropped.
The 5th time Yoel Violated the OPP was when Mr. Bamberger advised Yoel that the OPP was not in affect and Rivky has allowed Yoel to pick up his childern from Rivky's house, after numerous times of picking his children up from the house, and Yoel ended his communications with Mr. Bamberger, Rivky called the police to advise Yoel has Violated the OPP by coming to her house to pick up the children.
Rivky has tried on a few more occasions to get him arrested for violating the OPP, but by then the Police and the courts were sick and tired of her allegations and finally they revoked the OPP's.
I will try to upload the original request where Rivky request the OPP. [document is below]
All of these people conspiring against Yoel are really good. The PR hacks, the lawyers. Everybody. They conspired to have Ms. Stein pretend to run away from home, go to court and represent herself and cry rape way back in 2012. The ole "go-to-court-and-cry-rape-then-start-a-social-media-campaign-two-years-later" trick. Works every time.
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if I am wrong - but if they are not married civilly, I suppose the default value - if nothing is done - is that she has sole custody of the children. If she has sole custody of the children, taking a child away from her against her will can be considered kidnapping.
ReplyDeleteThe issue of the rape: After many comments I have read here by men claiming they are religious-orthodox, I am not astonished that a frum man should think he is "entitled" to have sex with his wife and get it against her will. I think this is a larger societal problem that needs to be addressed.
Re,: your second paragraph above:
ReplyDeleteThe law in NYS is that an O of P is only for violence or actual threat of violence, not "she was afraid ... would harm her based on the accusations she claims against her."
What were the accusations? Money laundering? Having a job (vs bais yaakov marry a kollel boy)? Peonage? Marital rape?
None of these are actual threat of violence.
The problem is that NY (and kings county ( = brooklyn) gives an O of P automatically to anyone who fills out those forms.
I'm happy to see Y's classmates stand up for him years later. Unfortunately, in the MO community, we don't have such a concept.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. In the second document, p. 21, (par. 49), Yoel Weiss admits to lying.
ReplyDeleteSo should this document strengthen his credibility?
Register - true to form - you ignore all the documents regarding her lack of credibility, her unproven charges of rape, kidnapping etc etc.
ReplyDeleteYou simple focus on the one spot where he said that they both had greatly inflated their financial status.
Following your logic you should also have concluded that she is not credible and therefore you don't believe either of them. But it is too much for you.
Goodness gracious, how horribly shocking! It says they both overclaimed income to get a better insurance term. Of course we should only focus on him and not her. And we should also pretend we don't know that claiming a higher income on a credit card or insurance application is quite common everywhere and known and recognized even to the financial institutions that offer these products and who takes those numbers put on the application with a grain of salt.
ReplyDeleteWell, to be quite straightforward: I am starting to believe that they deserve each other, as someone who claims to know them stated a few days ago.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned a few days ago that child support demands of 25'000$ per month did not seem realistic to me and I referenced the court minutes of the visitation hearing.
If he admits to a lie with "obviously" in front of the court, it leads me to believe that he has no habit of being makpid with figures about his income, etc.
So I have a tendency to believe that the claims Rivka makes about his business activity are at least partially true, but that he feels quite sure about himself that he will not be discovered (since those transactions were made in cash or over complicated internet channels that will be difficult to trace or both).
Or he boasted to Rivky that he was very rich, but it was really not true.
As far as the spousal rape is concerned, I tend to believe it. On the other claims, I remain rather agnostic, but I do believe he has a controlling personality.
I do also believe that she is afraid of letting the children be with him, and that she does everything to avoid it, but what she does is not always in her best interest.
So yes, I would suppose that he is more intelligent or more cunning or better advised than she is.
All these people conspiring against Yoel are really good. The PR hacks, the lawyers. Everybody. They conspired to have Ms. Stein pretend to run away from home, go to court and represent herself and cry rape way back in 2012. The ole "go-to-court-and-cry-rape-then-start-a-social-media-campaign-two-years-later" trick. Works every time.
ReplyDeleteHe earned 21'200 in 2013 and paid 1600$ rent per month? Really? So he spent 19'200 on his rent and lived off 2000$ for all of 2013, while paying 100$ child support per week, let alone all those expensive (and very able) attorneys? Puuleaze!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJust received another donation of $61
ReplyDelete$61.00
Maytal M Jesin
8 mins ago
$25.00
Anonymous
2 hours ago
Y's classmate would have to have known him before his Bar Mitzvah. Y. did not go to school during his teen years and way before that, too.
ReplyDeleteOr some of us who saw her bruises and know the truth have friends :) also, please note -- Yoeli puts the wrong name in for his daughter in his counter-claim. He also lies about much of that story, including why they were at the therapist. And yes, the police did take away the kids from the mom many years ago -- and Ohel got custody. And eventually the courts returned the kids. And yes the mom had a hard life. And yes, Rivky had a hard one, too. Bounced through a system that doesn't work or place kids right, then returned and then bounced again -- and then trusting someone who everyone in the community knew was an issue to be someone she can have as a marriage partner. Where is the community for the defenseless, for that was what she was? where are all the rabbonim, doctors and others who actually witnessed the abuse (including Yoeli taking that baby that day that is described in these documents). They are scared of a loose cannon called Yoeli. And so the good people are quiet and don't corroborate what was clear abuse. And let a rich spoiled family harm a girl they've been harming since they went out of their way to "snag" her for their unmarriagable son/brother
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't want to take either side but I find it interesting how he just "happens" to be where she is . That seems to corroborate her story of always being watched by him.. Just analyzing what is presented..
ReplyDelete"With his Heter Meah Rabbonim, Yoeli can immediately get remarried."
ReplyDeletewho wants to marry a person with such a reputation?
how come? discipline problems?
ReplyDelete@bf - as a good friend of Rivky - if you were convinced she was being abused - why didn't you call the police? Were you the one who convinced her to leave Yoel? Did you advise her to file a RICO claim? Did you design or media blitz - including the Daily News and the Mail
ReplyDeleteIt is just as likely that she was stalking him according to your logic.
ReplyDeleteAnd why was Yoeli falsely led to believe that Rivky, with all her issues and baggage pre-marriage, was marriage material? Why was Yoeli left defenseless against well-heeled moneyed men wanting Ricky who are now financing a major public relations battle planting stories against him and his family in trashy tabloids like the Daily Mirror and Daily News and financing and running social media, facebook, twitter and websites to besmirch him and his entire extended family with falsehoods and fantastical fantasy stories? Where are the rabbonim putting a stop to this libel and slander against the Weiss family? Where are the good people when an entire family is being attacked using goyishe trashy tabloids that live and thrive on sex stories and are now eating up every sex description Rivky allegedly relates from her state of undress in her bedroom?
ReplyDeletebf: Everything you write makes sense to me. I believe you.
ReplyDeleteYou are such a liar, if anyone saw even a hint of 1 single bruise, Yoel would have been charged and arrested, in her initial report to get her Order of Protection she made no mention of any physical bruise, maybe if she had the people around her that she has now they might have bruised her up before going to the police, but hashem knows when to give people the proper thoughts, so ultimately once she made her first report she did not have a second chance and fabricating any bruises.
ReplyDeleteI love the way your trying to spread false rumors, i'm sure hashem will deal with you in the right time.
I am trying to refrain from saying anything bad about the stein family, I think they have suffered enough, Jewish people should not be spreading loshon hora for the fun of it.
In what way do you think anyone can help?
ReplyDeletePlease don't mention again about giving a get.
Lets all stop spreading loshon hora, and see how hashem directs the courts to do what is best for the children.
of course you do, your probably the same person commenting to yourself, who else can agree to something that makes no sense.
ReplyDelete@Register - this is ridiculous. Two people meeting is not proof of stalking. However Yoel's version is that there were clearly incidents that Rivky made it happen that Yoel would meet her and she then claimed he violated the protection agreement.
ReplyDeleteSince you weren't there - your conjectiure does count for much. Gp throught the court records and see how the cout views Rivky's crediblity in terms of these incidents.
this will not long remain a war of attrition - one side is going to lose big and soon
ReplyDeleteGo read the family court document again (27 may 2014). It says explicitly that the order of protection is still in force, therefore the parents should not meet, but the children should be brought to school and picked up after school for the transitions. further it notes that any arrangement implying that they should get to near each other - even coincidentally - is not a good idea.
ReplyDeleteThe instances were the credibility was found lacking are about something else, it's about claims of neglect of the children.
What I read out of this court document is that rivky is like a deer in the headlights, frightened out of her wits, that her non-husband might kidnap the children, which according to her, he threatened numerous times. This would also explain the atmosphere of tension when she produces the children.
I found the family court judge quite harsh when dealing with her fears. I got the impression that if something happens - which, I agree, is quite rare - it would not be her problem, but it would definitely be the mother's problem.
I have the impression that Yoel attentively read this article (or the book described therein) and meticulously applies every single pointer, including the recommendation to take out a counter-order of protection.
http://www.divorcesaloon.com/2014/06/17/dirty-divorce-tricks-and-how-to-beat-your-wives-at-their-own-game-for-men-husbands-dads/
"I know the Weiss family well and they are all very sweet and honorable people"
ReplyDeleteYes, especially uncle Sholam, he was even a member of the honorable society.
"To ruin a family's name..."
Don't you think that there are certain family members who already took care of this?
I don't know any sides, except, holding back a get is never useful. almost 100 percent of the time it just makes you look bad even if you have a right to hold back for whatever reason/ you just get a bad name. i know many others on this blog encourage holding back a get and think halacha mandates it, etc. but if you want to save yourself aggravation, GET it over with.
ReplyDeletethere was a similar case a few months ago, and the boy lost out big time by holding back a get. and at the end ,he gave it to save himself and family from the extra aggravation which could have been prevented.
Wow what a load of bs...you are the only one who was witness to her abuse? You have nothing to fear from yoilly weiss...i am so confident that if you come forward nothing will happen(except maybe purjery of course) that pick a legitamite beis din and ill put $100,000.00 in their hands if you testify and even a hair gets touched on you...stop your game...if i were you id just stay out of it because as soon as she blows up in public and everyone knows the truth the people who said they were witness are going down with her and you have absoloutly zero to gain to be by her side when that happens...so do yourself a favor and go destroy someone elses life.
ReplyDeleteRegister... Make sure rivky raises a lot of money, because she it going to need it... I predict that rivky is going to lose the kids, big time, very soon,,, and her law firm representing her in her Rico case together with Frankal will get sued for millions... yoel has a large law firm ready to take this case on a contingency bases to sue all people responsible for a frivolous RICO action which was filed by rivky. they will make millions...$$$$$
ReplyDelete@Morris - the simple accepted halacha is to wait until the other issues have been resolved. While it is possible that the sometimes causes problems but more often giving the get first causes more problems.
ReplyDelete@Register this is another example of a gratuitous nasty comment. The Weiss family has a reputation beyond that of one member. They defintiely are being harmed by this. According to you if Rivky is shown to be not telling the truth - they would have no basis for countersuing?!
ReplyDeleteI said a long time ago that they should file libel charges if they feel libeled.
ReplyDeleteYes, the comment was nasty and gratuitous, I apologise. But I have to admit that I am influenced by the uncle sholem history when assessing the credibility of certain charges in the rico suit. I cannot say whether certain allegations on business activities are true or not. But if they were true, that would in turn lend credibility to the allegations of constant surveillance and deprivation of liberty. But I suppose we will have to wait until the trial to find out.
"but more often giving the get first causes more problems.
ReplyDelete"
How come? Because the side wanting a get is less amenable to compromise?
No, because sometimes the side wanting the Get will trample over the husband's other halachic rights in the divorce process if she receives the Get prior to the resolution of other outstanding seperation/divorce issues.
ReplyDeleteThe husband might not want to divorce altogether. And a husband has no halachic obligation to divorce (give a Get) if he doesn't want to (and doesn't abuse her, which would be a case where he would have to divorce e her even if he didn't want to) even if his wife does want to divorce. If the husband wants shalom bayis, then halacha allows him to decide to remain married to his wife. Halacha does not recognize divorce-on-demand and either spouse can elect to maintain the marriage even if the other spouse wants out. (By Ashkenazim; by Sephardim the husband [but not the wife] can force a divorce on his own decision.)
ReplyDeleteConsidering the courts found that Ricky filed false abuse charges, that is a heavy indictment of her.
ReplyDeleteIn every system, there are always trade offs. Putting aside the question if the Halachic Pre-nup is indeed halachically permissible or not, I believe the MO community very strongly believes, based on their experience of thousands of Gitten that were issued upfront in their community, that giving a Get upfront causes less issues than withholding it until the end.
ReplyDeleteThey strongly believe that giving the Get upfront, automatically creates an amicable environment for the parties to negotiate the remaining issues and stay focused on doing what is fair and best for the children (if any).
LOL! She and Frankel would have to have millions for them to go after. No law firm would take on the case you described on a contingency basis.
ReplyDeleteI would agree, if they both sign an agreement not to go to court, and have bais din have the final word on things.
ReplyDeleteIf you leave things up to the court, who ever has more money can keep the other busy forever.
If you want to play fair then play fair, you say today there is no bais din to enforce a get that's why they should give the get first, well there is no bais din to enforce that you don't go to court to waste everyone's time and money.
We get married according to halacha, we should get divorced according to halacha.
so Daas Torah, why don't you ask about the reputation of the family. Like the father's issues. To say the Steins were the dysfunctional family is truth. But ditto for the Weiss family.
ReplyDeleteah, the threats from the weiss side start - -I should stay out of it -- how many folks did you threaten that they would blow up if they help this girl? How many people are you alienating with your threats. That is the Yoeli m.o. and here we go...
ReplyDeleteLol, jokes on you,.. Yoel actually has two large firm that would love to take the case... They believe there is lots of money to made.... The firm representing rivky has millions of dollars in liability insurance... And Frankal stole enough not from other people , he could give back some it.... We're coming after you Frankal ...
ReplyDelete1) You wrote: "If you leave things up to the court, who ever has more money can keep the other busy forever."
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the same can be said of Beth Din.
2) It is because the Beth Din system is perceived as being biased against woman and corrupt, is the main reason why many woman are scared to go to Beth Din and end up going to court.
If he wants a proper heter meah rabbonim, the get he deposits has to be has to be unconditional. See, for example, Igros Moshe EH 4:3. He can either withhold the get demanding money or custody of the kids, or ask for a heter meah rabbonim, but not both.
ReplyDelete(alleged) marital rape is not violence or actual threat of violence?
ReplyDeleteMany commentators here think:
ReplyDelete1) That the wife has a duty to perform "marital relations" according to jewish law (I contest this).
2) Marital rape does not exist, as a concept.
Will see who will be the last to laugh ,. When this is all over, frankal will be out of pocket 250k and then frankal together with the firm representing rivky will get sued for million....
ReplyDelete