Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 12:1-3): 1) When a man marries a woman, whether she is a virgin or a non-virgin, whether she is above the age of majority or a minor, and whether she was born Jewish, is a convert or a freed slave, he incurs ten responsibilities toward her and receives four privileges 2)With regard to his ten responsibilities: three stem from the Torah. They include sha'arah, kesutah v'onatah. Sha'arah means providing her with subsistence; Kesutah means supplying her with garments, and onatah refers to conjugal rights. The seven responsibilities ordained by the Rabbis are all conditions [of the marriage contract] established by the court. The first is the fundamental requirement of the marriage contract. The others are referred to as t'na'ei , the conditions of the marriage contract. They are:a) to provide medical treatment if she becomes sick; b) to redeem her if she is held captive:c) to bury her if she dies;d) the right for her to continue living in his home after his death as long as she remains a widow;e) the right for her daughters to receive their subsistence from his estate after his death until they become consecrated;f) the right for her sons to inherit her ketubah in addition to their share in her husband's estate together with their brothers [borne by other wives, if she dies before her husband does].3) The four privileges that the husband is granted are all Rabbinic in origin. They are: a) the right to the fruits of her labor; b) the right to any ownerless object she discovers; c) the right to benefit from the profits of her property during her lifetime; d) the right to inherit her [property] if she dies during his lifetime. His rights to her property supersede [the rights of] all others.
In addition because she is acquired by her husband in the marriage process she is subservient to him and she is required to provide sexual relations to him. Rashi(Nedarim 15b): Rav Kahana said that a wife who takes an oath to prohibit sexual relations with her husband – she is forced and has sexual relations with him because she has no ability to prohibit herself since she is subservient to his pleasure. While she can not be forced to have sexual intercourse with him a wife who refuses to have sexual intercourse with her husband is labeled a moredes and it is grounds for divorce. Likewise if he refuses to fulfill his Torah obligation to have sexual intercourse it is also grounds for divorce.
This subservience of the woman to the man is reflected in the following:
This subservience of the woman to the man is reflected in the following:
(Hilchos Ishus 13:11): …A woman should be given proper clothing to go the house of her father or to the house of mourning or to a banquet. That is because every woman should visit her father’s house or visit the house of mourning or a banquet as well as show kindness to her friends and relatives in order that they should reciprocate with her. She is not a prisoner in her house that she is not free to come and go. However it is a degrading thing if she is always going outside - sometimes just outside and at other times into the streets. It is necessary that the husband restrains his wife from this and not let his wife go out except once a month or perhaps twice a month according to need. That is because the beauty of a woman is to sit in the corner of her house as it says in Tehilim (45:14): All the honor of the king’s daughter is inside.
Rambam(Hilchos Ishus 15:18): Similarly, our Sages commanded a woman to conduct herself modestly at home, not to proliferate levity or frivolity before her husband, not to request intimacy verbally, nor to speak about this matter. She should not deny her husband [intimacy] to cause him anguish, so that he should increase his love for her. Instead, she should oblige him whenever he desires. She should keep her distance from his relatives and the members of his household so that he will not be provoked by jealousy and should avoid scandalous situations - indeed, any trace of scandal.
Rambam( Hilchos Ishus 15:20): And similarly, they commanded a woman to honor her husband exceedingly and to be in awe of him. She should carry out all her deeds according to his directives, considering him to be an officer or a king. She should follow the desires of his heart and shun everything that he disdains.This is the custom of holy and pure Jewish women and men in their marriages. And these ways will make their marriage pleasant and praiseworthy.
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however the man has obligations to her
Rambam(Hilchos Ishus 15:19): Similarly, our Sages commanded that a man honor his wife more than his own person, and love her as he loves his own person. If he has financial resources, he should offer her benefits in accordance with his resources. He should not cast a superfluous measure of fear over her. He should talk with her gently, being neither sad nor angry.
Rambam(Hilchos Ishus 15:18): Similarly, our Sages commanded a woman to conduct herself modestly at home, not to proliferate levity or frivolity before her husband, not to request intimacy verbally, nor to speak about this matter. She should not deny her husband [intimacy] to cause him anguish, so that he should increase his love for her. Instead, she should oblige him whenever he desires. She should keep her distance from his relatives and the members of his household so that he will not be provoked by jealousy and should avoid scandalous situations - indeed, any trace of scandal.
Rambam( Hilchos Ishus 15:20): And similarly, they commanded a woman to honor her husband exceedingly and to be in awe of him. She should carry out all her deeds according to his directives, considering him to be an officer or a king. She should follow the desires of his heart and shun everything that he disdains.This is the custom of holy and pure Jewish women and men in their marriages. And these ways will make their marriage pleasant and praiseworthy.
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however the man has obligations to her
Rambam(Hilchos Ishus 15:19): Similarly, our Sages commanded that a man honor his wife more than his own person, and love her as he loves his own person. If he has financial resources, he should offer her benefits in accordance with his resources. He should not cast a superfluous measure of fear over her. He should talk with her gently, being neither sad nor angry.
Seems obvious to me, at least, that the laws need a major re-write for the 21st century. Just sayin'!
ReplyDeleteJust agreeing! LOL
DeleteThe above are halachic obligations - of course there are other things which should and must be done to ensure a successful marriage.
Delete>The above are halachic obligations<
DeleteBut you might be missing the point that halacha, I'm afraid to say, seems to be sometimes tied up to the ancient pass and is the 800 lb. gorilla, so to speak, in the room that can't be addressed.
The Reform and Conservative have already updated the halachas for the 21st century.
DeleteWoe unto those who foolishly think they can improve on what the Torah indicates is the proper halachic obligations.
DeleteDoes a wife have an obligation, either from the Torah or rabbinic, to adhere and follow her husbands commands to her? For example, if her husband tells her to bring a cup of water to him and her father asks for a cup of water, she must first bring it to her husband and only then if it doesnt interfere with her obligation to her husband can she bring it to her father. (With the husband it is the opposite. He must first have kibid av veim, and bring the drink to his father and only afterwards can he bring it to his wife, per her request.)
ReplyDeleteSo, is that obligation, to follow her husbands wishes and commands, a legal obligation?
I am interested in the last paragraph, about how often women should leave the home. Is this something that appears in the Shulchan Aruch or other halachic codes? I was under the impression that this was something specific to Rambam, which reflects the customs of his time.
ReplyDeleteElsewhere Rambam claimed that women are inherently unable to study Torah, because they will just misunderstand it. Obviously this has been proven wrong today, since thousands of frum women teach Torah full-time, and even charedim give their daughters relatively advanced Jewish educations. Many charedi adult women regularly attend shiurim, etc.
As an aside, from the text of Eishes Chayil it seems clear that the woman of valor in question left the house all the time -- she is even described as bringing food from afar like a trading ship, buying land, engaging in trade, feeding the poor. How could one do such things by only leaving the house once a month?
Yeshaya - Yes, Shulchan Aruch explicitly paskens that the halacha is like Rambam. The S"A says a woman should not leave her home too much. I don't recall if S"A also states one or two times a month.
DeleteThe S"A also states most women are unable to learn Torah and even forbids fathers from teaching their daughters Torah shebal peh.
I was once in Tangiers, Morocco, in the early 70s. I saw the way the men stared at young women as they walked by, far different than anything I've seen in America or Europe. It was an unforgettable, obscene, pornographic stare. It was almost violent. They were undressing the women with their eyes. Living in a country like that, a woman going out once or twice a month, according to need, seems just about right.
ReplyDeleteActually muslims are allowed to rape women that they deem immodestly dressed. I had to break off an engagement because of that. So yeah, keeping your women at home and getting them dress like a walking tent when they went out... it made a lot of sense in that culture.
DeleteBreak off an engagement? What does that mean.
DeleteThat means as a Kohen, I am forbidden from marrying anyone with the halakhic status of a Zonah, and a rape victim unfortunately qualifies.
DeleteA girl I dated and was eventually engaged to, her father worked for a large oil corporation in Dubai. At one point she was abducted and raped.
Her family had to flee the country because when they reported it to the police charges were brought against her for "public immodesty" and some other absurdities that essentially amounted to -she was asking for it.
Unfortunately this didn't come out until we were engaged, as you can imagine she didn't like to talk about it too much. We were both B"T of some variety, so neither of us knew going in that such a thing could be a problem, and we were too dumb to lie about it when the issue naturally came up in talking to the Rav preparing for the marriage.
The Rav refused to perform the marriage... I was too sold on Yiddishkeit(still am to be honest) to leave it for her.
So long story short. Engagement ended because one religion taught that it is ok to rape women.
Rambam, perek 21, halacha 7: "We find that every woman performs five tasks for her husband. She spins, washes his face, hands, and legs, pours his drink, makes the bed, and serves him. There are six tasks some women do and some don't: grind and bake and cook, wash, nurse children, and feed the animals."
ReplyDeleteHalacha 10: "Any woman who does not do the tasks which she is obligated to do is forced, even with a stick." The Rabad meforesh on this: "I have never heard of hitting a woman with a stick, but one reduces the necessities given to her and her food until she gives in."
6. Rambam (21:10): If a woman refuses to do any obligatory Melachah, we force her, even with a stick.
ReplyDeletei. Rebuttal (Ra'avad): I never heard about hittng women with sticks. Rather, he diminishes her needs and food until she submits.
ii. Beis Yosef (EH 80 DH u'Mah she'Chosav Yir'eh): The Tur says that the Rambam holds that rebellion from Melachah is rebellion. He learns from the fact that we force her with sticks. If she could say 'do not feed me, and I will not work for you', why would we force her? However, why didn't the Rambam say that we deduct from her Kesuvah? I say that the Rambam does not consider her a rebel. He said (12:4) that if she says 'do not feed me, and I will not work for you', we heed her. In Perek 21, he discusses one who wants to be fed without working. The Ran explains that since she did not pardon food, he must still feed her, therefore he can force her to work. Alternatively, even when she says 'do not feed me, and I will not work for you', this helps only for spinning, but not for other Melachos.
iii. Rosh (5:31): Rav Huna says that refusing to work is not rebellion. This is like he said above, that a wife can tell her husband 'do not feed me, and I will not work for you.' R. Yosi b'Ribi Chanina says that it is rebellion. He holds like Reish Lakish, who says that a man can force his wife to work. If he can force her, why is she considered a rebel? Since she works only through coercion, she is a rebel.
(c) Poskim
1. Shulchan Aruch (EH 80:15): If a wife refuses to do a mandatory Melachah, we force her. i. Gra (25): We cannot say that we do not force at all. We force a woman to nurse. Even if she brings in 100 slaves, we force her (for idleness ruins people).
2. Rema: He does not feed her until she does it. Beis Din excommunicates her or sells her Kesuvah to hire a slave. Some say that Beis Din forces her with sticks.
i. Chelkas Mechokek (26): Beis Din does not excommunicate her if he does not feed her, for then she may say that she will not work for him. Rather, they excommunicate her if he does not want to withhold food, e.g. she is nursing or for another reason.
I once asked the great Gaon and Mekubol RST of Monsey the secret of Shalom Bayis. He replied, "In Cabala the female is superior to the male." THe Cabala is full of the great regard a man must have for his wife because she is close to the Schechinah, that protects the man only for the sake of his being loving and kind to his wife. In Cabala the female is the lowest of the ten levels, but that bottom level is directly connected to the highest hidden level, so the wife in this world is hidden, but the man who recognizes who she is honors her more than himself, as the Rambam teaches. With this Cabala, the Rambam makes sense.
ReplyDeleteRav Eidensohn,
DeleteI say this as someone who studied Kabbalah under Rav Kaduri, and later under Rav Hedayya and Rav Shmueli(just to let you know that I am sympathetic to what Kabbalah teaches).
Do you really expect your average MO person to simply accept Kabbalah as an explanation for a halakah that they makes statements like, But you might be missing the point that halacha, I'm afraid to say, seems to be sometimes tied up to the ancient pass.? Why would you think that they would not simply dismiss that as ancient superstition(if not 11th century invention)?
You have to actually convince them of the authenticity of Kabbalah, before you can use Kabbalah to speak into assumptions.
Rabbi Tsadok,
DeleteIf someone doesn't believe in the Cabala, they can stil believe in the respect the Cabala suggests, that fits in with the Rambam and common sense. But today even non-Jews believe in the Cabala, so why should we assume that Jews who keep Shabbos don't believe in it?
If you are asking me to explain it, I cannot. However a large proportion of MO Shomer Shabbat Jews do not believe in Kabbalah.
DeleteWell, maybe the merit of LAG BIOMER when even secular Jews by the thousands go to Meron in Israel, will awaken in everyone a connection to Rashbi and Cabala.
Delete1) Women should stay inside:
ReplyDelete(a) Poskim
1. Shulchan Aruch (73:1): A man must give his wife clothing like women normally wear outside. A woman should not go outside much. The beauty of a woman is to stay inside - "Kol Kevudah..."
i. Gra (4): Hash-m did not create Chavah from Adam's foot, lest she roam too much (Bereishis Rabah 18:2). "Ishtecha k'Gefen Poriyah" is only when she is modest "b'Yarkesei Veisecha" (Medrash Tehilim 128:3).
(b) Rishonim
1. Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 13:11): A man must give his wife clothing like women normally wear outside in order that she can go to her father or a house of mourning or Simchah. She may go to these places to bestow Chesed to her friends and relatives, in order that they will come to her. She is not a prisoner who may not come and go. However, it is degrading for a woman to always be outside and on the streets. A man should prevent his wife from doing so. She should go outside once or twice a month, according to the need. The beauty of a woman is to stay inside - "Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Penimah".
i. Source (Magid Mishneh): Bereishis Rabah (45:5) says that when the Torah discusses the detriment of women, it says that they go out - 'Va'Tetzei Dinah". The Sifri (Tetzei 242 (23)), regarding a Na'arah Me'orasah who was enticed to Zenus, says that a breach (going out in the city) calls to the thief. Bereishis Rabah (8:12) reads "Kivshuha" like 'Kavshah' to teach that a husband should prevent his wife from going out too much.
2. Rambam (Nedarim 12:11): If a woman vowed not to give water to her husband's animals, he cannot annul it. A wife need not do this for her husband.
i. Kesef Mishneh: A wife must give straw to her husband's animals, but she need not give water. This is because normally one leaves the house to go to the river or spring for this, and "Kol Kevudah..."
4. Rosh (Kesuvos 13:17): If a man married a woman from a city of the same quality as his own, even if he married her in his city we force him to live in her city. We learn from "Be'ulas Ba'al"... Another reason is because he can go to visit his friends, but she cannot, due to "Kol Kevudah."
5. Rosh (Shevu'os 4:2): The Ri ha'Levi learns from our Gemara that we do not disgrace an honorable woman to go to Beis Din, due to "Kol Kevudah." Rather, we send a Shali'ach of Beis Din to hear her claims. The Aruch and R. Chananel agree. The Ramban and Teshuvos of the Rif and Rav Sadya Gaon do not allow this. The Rif allows only that Beis Din send scribes to record her claim. The same applies to a Chacham for whom it is degrading to argue with Amei ha'Aretz in Beis Din; his honor is greater than a woman's.
i. Teshuvos Maimoniyos (Mishpatim 5): The Gemara (Nazir 12a) says that women are Kevu'os due to "Kol Kevudah."
continued from above
ReplyDelete(c) Gemara
1. (R. Yochanan): Avner told Do'eg 'We learned that an Amoni and a Mo'avi are forbidden, but an Amonis and a Mo'avis are not!'
2. Question (Do'eg): If so, you should say that a Mitzri is forbidden, not a Mitzris!
3. Answer (Avner): Mo'avim are forbidden "Because they did not go out to greet you with bread and water." This does not apply to women. It is normal for men to go out to greet, but not for women.
4. Objection (Do'eg): The men should have gone out to greet the men, and the women to greet the women!
5. Avner was silent.
6. Question: How can we answer?
7. Answer #1 (Chachamim of Bavel): "Kol Kevudah Vas Melech Penimah" (it is dishonorable for women to go outside, even to greet women).
8. Answer #2 (Chachamim of Eretz Yisrael): We learn this from " ... Where is your wife Sarah?" (It is praiseworthy that she stayed in the tent.)
9. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): "Amoni" and "Mo'avi" are forbidden, not Amonis and Mo'avis;
10. R. Shimon says, "Because they did not go out ..." - it is the way of a man ...
11. Nazir 12a (R. Yochanan): If Reuven made a Shali'ach to be Mekadesh an unspecified woman and the agent died, Reuven may not marry any woman (Leah), lest the Shali'ach was Mekadesh Leah's relative to Reuven.
12. Question (Reish Lakish): When a Hekdesh bird flies away, we are not concerned about other birds (lest it is the Hekdesh bird; we follow the majority. The same should apply here (most women are not Leah's relatives)!
13. Answer (R. Yochanan): Because woman do not roam, the Safek is considered Kavu'a (fixed), so we don't follow the majority.
15. Gitin 12a (Beraisa): If a wife was exiled to a refuge city, her husband must feed her. He can tell her to feed herself from her earnings only if she earns enough to feed herself.
16. Question: If she can earn enough, this is obvious!
17. Answer: One might have thought that due to "Kol Kevudah...", she need not work and he must feed her. The Beraisa teaches that this is not so.
18. Shevu'os 30a - Question: What is the source that (women are invalid witnesses, so) Shevu'as ha'Edus does not apply to women?
19. Answer (Beraisa): "V'Omdu Shnei ha'Anashim" refers to the witnesses.
20. Question: Perhaps it refers to the parties in the case!
21. Answer #1: The Torah would not say "men", for women also need to come for judgment.
22. Answer #2: If you prefer, you can learn from "Shnei" (masculine).
23. Question: What objection might one have to the first answer?
24. Answer: Normally women do not come to Beis Din for judgment (rather, they send a man to plead their case), due to "Kol Kevudah..."
Missing from above...
Delete1) Women should stay inside:
(a) Poskim
1. Shulchan Aruch (73:1): A man must give his wife clothing like women normally wear outside. A woman should not go outside much. The beauty of a woman is to stay inside - "Kol Kevudah..."
i. Gra (4): Hash-m did not create Chavah from Adam's foot, lest she roam too much (Bereishis Rabah 18:2). "Ishtecha k'Gefen Poriyah" is only when she is modest "b'Yarkesei Veisecha" (Medrash Tehilim 128:3).
(b) Rishonim
1. Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 13:11): A man must give his wife clothing like women normally wear outside in order that she can go to her father or a house of mourning or Simchah. She may go to these places to bestow Chesed to her friends and relatives, in order that they will come to her. She is not a prisoner who may not come and go. However, it is degrading for a woman to always be outside and on the streets. A man should prevent his wife from doing so. She should go outside once or twice a month, according to the need. The beauty of a woman is to stay inside - "Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Penimah".
i. Source (Magid Mishneh): Bereishis Rabah (45:5) says that when the Torah discusses the detriment of women, it says that they go out -'Va'Tetzei Dinah". The Sifri (Tetzei 242 (23)), regarding a Na'arah Me'orasah who was enticed to Zenus, says that a breach (going out in the city) calls to the thief. Bereishis Rabah (8:12) reads "Kivshuha" like 'Kavshah' to teach that a husband should prevent his wife from going out too much.
2. Rambam (Nedarim 12:11): If a woman vowed not to give water to her husband's animals, he cannot annul it. A wife need not do this for her husband.
i. Kesef Mishneh: A wife must give straw to her husband's animals, but she need not give water. This is because normally one leaves the house to go to the river or spring for this, and "Kol Kevudah..."
4. Rosh (Kesuvos 13:17): If a man married a woman from a city of the same quality as his own, even if he married her in his city we force him to live in her city. We learn from "Be'ulas Ba'al"... Another reason is because he can go to visit his friends, but she cannot, due to "Kol Kevudah."
5. Rosh (Shevu'os 4:2): The Ri ha'Levi learns from our Gemara that we do not disgrace an honorable woman to go to Beis Din, due to "Kol Kevudah." Rather, we send a Shali'ach of Beis Din to hear her claims. The Aruch and R. Chananel agree. The Ramban and Teshuvos of the Rif and Rav Sadya Gaon do not allow this. The Rif allows only that Beis Din send scribes to record her claim. The same applies to a Chacham for whom it is degrading to argue with Amei ha'Aretz in Beis Din; his honor is greater than a woman's.
i. Teshuvos Maimoniyos (Mishpatim 5): The Gemara (Nazir 12a) says that women are Kevu'os due to "Kol Kevudah."
It is interesting that the halacha that women should stay inside seems to be derived mainly from midrash (Berishis Rabah). Is this common, to derive a law from midrash, as opposed to the Gemara itself?
DeleteRegardless, how should we relate today to the halacha about women staying in the house? Does anyone follow it today? Even far-right charedi women today leave the house basically every day -- isn't this correct? Have poskim ruled on the applicability of this law today, or is it just ignored?
It seems that there are many laws in Mishnei Torah and Shulchan Aruch that people simply do not follow today (whether poskim have approved of it or not). For example, no one today says we should try to deviously kill heretics by taking away their ladder when they're in a hole. Also, despite the halacha that women should not study oral Torah, it seems commonplace for charedi women to study it, at least the non-legal parts (and of course modern Orthodox women can now get master's degrees in Talmud, without any charedim threatening to excommunicate them for it). The Lubavitcher Rebbe, for example, encouraged women to study Ein Yaacov.
How have major poskim dealt with the changing place of women in societies around the world? Have they said the traditional halacha is no longer applicable?
I was thinking about this going-out-not-more-than-twice-a-month...
DeleteToday, it is generally the women's task to bring the small children to school and to do the shopping. This would not work according to that rule...
1) Question about inheritance
ReplyDeleteSo if a man has two wives, and sons from both wives, neither is a bechor. The first (who had a sizeable ketubah) dies.
Does the son of the first wife inherit her ketuba or not?
Since everything she owns goes to the husband when she dies, this would imply that her son will not inherit his mother's estate, since it was swallowed by the father's and will be distributed equally between his offspring...
2) question about wife's money
Is there a possibility to make a marriage contract stating that the man is not entitled to his wive's revenues and found objects and usufruit of her heritage or would this be against torah law? Would a beith din uphold such a contract or rule that anyway everything the wife earns belongs to the husband?
1. depends on the terms in the kesuba.
Delete2. yes such a contract can work
3) in the case where a wife wants a divorce.
ReplyDeleteShe moves out of the common household and starts working to sustain herself.
Is the husband entitled to take all her revenues away, so that she will be forced to move back in with him, since she has no possibility of obtaining her own means?
Will the beith din oblige her to cede her revenues to the husband?
Will she be considered in contempt of court if she does not hand over her salary?
no, no, and no.
Delete"I was too sold on Yiddishkeit(still am to be honest) to leave it for her"
ReplyDeleteno used car salesman you are sold on a distorted version picked up from another religion called feminism.
Wow you are a sick puppy to use that episode to try to attack someone.
DeleteAnyway back the questions:
1) Should a B"D force a get in a case of Maus Alei when the husband is physically abusive?
2) Should a B"D force a get in a case of Maus Alei when the husband is emotionally/verbally abusive?
3) Should a B"D force a get in a case of Maus Alei when there is also spousal rape?
4) Should a B"D force a get in a case of Maus Alei when the husband is mentally deranged/psychopathic?
Now you tried to dodge by saying:
regarding your boych kashes:
1) see shulchan oruch for the halochos of when a man is mechuyev to divorce his wife 9even ho'ezer siman 133
So here is the headline of the Siman:
קל"ג צריך שימסור הגט בפני שני עדים כשרים ובו ג"ס
So we can see that this siman does not talk about any of the questions at all. If you would kindly just answer yes or no, and stop with the dodges that would be great.
Stan,
DeleteWhat did you mean about used car salesman? I am not so clever as to understand your idea here.
euphemistically a used car salesman over promises and always under delivers. He makes stuff up to close a sale just like tzadok who makes stuff up to make you think he is quoting halochoh.
ReplyDeleteStan,
ReplyDeleteI understand your enthusiasm to battle for the truth, but there is a tradition that at this time of the year, the students of Rabbi Akiva died because they argued about Torah and forgot basic respect. I wonder if this is appropriate on this blog when two people are always fighting with each other. At least, this time of the year, we should try to show some respect and at least not to be too terrible. I come from a school that believed in murderous arguments all day in the study hall, but who got personal? In a second the argument time was over and people were the best friends.
I answered this post but it was censored yet again by your brother.
ReplyDelete