Chabad Lubavitch reports
How do parents of a severely challenged 12 year old girl celebrate their daughter’s bat mitzvah?
The question was poignantly relevant for Rabbi Moshe Meir and Pnina Lipszyc, Chabad representatives to Ft. Lauderdale, who have cultivated a lively Jewish community over nearly two decades while raising their special needs children under extraordinary circumstances. [...]
Guma Aguiar came from Israel with his wife and children to celebrate. “The first time I came to this Chabad center six years ago,” the founder of Leor Energy told the guests, “I had nothing. I knew nothing about Judaism, and didn’t understand a thing of what was going on during services.”
Aguiar, who went on to become a successful entrepreneur, was born to Jewish parents but raised as an evangelical Christian. “I came here because I wanted to try something authentic,” he said, recalling how he walked into the Chabad center one Friday night in search of something missing in his life. He found it in Rabbi Lipszyc’s unconditional acceptance. Aguiar has since returned to his Jewish roots, living in Jerusalem much of the year.
Like Aguiar, many at the Torah dedication/ bat-mitzvah were there having discovered the joy of belonging through Rabbi Lipszyc. Aguiar says that observing the rabbi’s unfaltering devotion to his daughter has been a tremendous inspiration. “Goldi’s come a very long way since we got to know her six years ago. Moshe Meir has nurtured her with incredible love and patience.”
From the way Rabbi Lipszyc greets an endless stream of visitors to the Chabad center and the Kabbalah Café in Ft. Lauderdale, one would never guess that the 45 year old father of five has twice battled cancer and continues to struggle with his own health while working creatively to build and grow Jewish life in the area.[...]
Very noble story.
ReplyDeleteBut in light of what Guma Aguiar has said publicly earlier and from his public activities there are at least THREE other claimants who may/did turned Guma on to Orthodox Judaism:
1) His mother Ellen's brother, uncle Dr. Tom Kaplan who became religious (a baal teshuva) -- it's not clear exactly when, but presumably before Guma did -- and got involved with Rabbi Leib Tropper -- how and why and when that happened is still not clear or known either.
2) Rabbi Tropper to whom Guma turned as to a Guru and who worked on Guma at his Kol Yaakov yeshiva in Monsey and convinced Guma and uncle Tom to become huge financial backers of Tropper and his Kol Yaakov yeshiva's Horizons program(Tropper/Kol Yaakov/Horizons/EJF are all the same thing) to then establish and endow the controversial EJF organization through the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation which Guma and his mother founded and still head.
3) Rabbi Tovia Singer of Outreach Judaism whom Guma has claimed he contacted while still an active Evangelical Christian to challenge his views but then found himself out-argued by Rabbi Singer who made Guma see his first light in support of Yiddishkeit. Clearly then it was not Chabad that has that honor. But with idealistic and glazed sugar-coated BTs in motion and in the kiruv continuum these things often get combined into one undifferentiated process, like being emotionally swept off one's feet.
So it was not purely Lubavitch that turned Guma on to Yiddisshkeit but as usual with ALL BTs it was a combination and confluence of internal and external factors and influences.
Yet it is not unusual for only one organization or rabbi to claim sole credit for mekareving or recruiting someone in order to toot their own horns and deny the reality that there was lots more going on with other rabbis and people pulling at the potential recruits to bring them into the sphere of Orthodoxy as typically happened with Guma.
There is one point though that was absolutely not correct in this Chabad PR piece, and that is when it says that Guma "was born to Jewish parents" when he was NOT!
While Guma's mother Ellen is supossedly of Jewish parentage (there isstill the un-answered question why noone ever hears of MR. KAPLAN, husband of Lillian Jean???), Ellen is the sister of Dr. Tom Kaplan, she went to Brazil (why???) married Otto Aguiar(why him???) a Brazilian gentile from a Catholic family, about whom some subsequently supposedly claimed that he was maybe loosely descended from Marranos, a claim that is made quite often nowadays by many Hispanics and people of Iberian extraction and that is basically near-to-meaningless and valueless.
Ellen and Guma then became Christian Evangelicals and they returned to the USA from Brazil when Guma was very young and they then sent Guma (does he have siblings? if so, details are not known) to an Evangelical school that explains why Guma is very proficient and knows his way around what Evangelicals would so-call "Old Testament" texts and quotes about the Ingathering of the [Jewish] Exiles etc (hence, perhaps, his newfound eager support for Nefesh BeNefesh), at any rate, Guma was most definitely NOT born to "Jewish parents" -- they were Christinas when he was born, certainly his father was for sure, and then his mother became and official apostate so that neither was Jewish in the theological and spiritual sense.
At some point, probably with uncle Tom getting involved with Judaism and becoming religious, it must have been a factor in sister Ellen and nephew Guma getting curious or spoken to by uncle Tom (BTs by nature try to convince as many close family members to join them, usually they do not succeed but sometimes they do), and at some point Otto Aguiar, Ellen's husband and Guma's father, finally officially converted to Orthodox Judaism a couple of years ago, and as we have been told on this blog the conversion was done under the auspices of Rabbi Bomzer and as long as Guma and Ellen were on board with Tropper nothing was heard about this, but once Guma dumped Tropper, then poster Roni/Tropper started bad-mouthing Otto Aguiar's conversions in the process of scapegoating Rabbi Bomzer for Rabbi Tropper's failures to convince Guma Aguiar's WIFE Jamie who was also a young Brazilian gentile, a secret that was also not known until Guma dumped Tropper and with the help of the Chabad rabbi obtained a conversion for Jamie, again allegdly under the auspices of Rabbi Bomzer.
So while Tropper seeths and fumes at the Aguiars for their double-cross (good pun) the Chabad rabbi and the Chabad website are being way less than truthful in their description of Guma Aguiar and the complex and complicated web of personal intrigue and rabbinic manipulations that involves a confusing merge of issues:
*Catholic gentiles, Otto and Jamie, from Brazil
*Intermarriage by both Ellen Kaplan to gentile Otto Aguiar and then by their son Guma to the gentile Jamie also from Brazil;
*the Christian Evangelical factor, both Ellen and Otto and Guma and presumably his wife Jamie were involved with it,
*the return to Judaism of uncle Tom Kaplan and his nephew Guma while it's not clear what the level of observance is, if any of Guma's parents and of his wife Jamie and kids,
*two or perhaps even three supposed conversions to Orthodox Judaism, of Otto Aguiar, Jamie Aguiar, and it's alleged even of uncle Tom Kaplan's wife;
*massive involvement and founding of Jewish outreach and proselytizing efforts and organizations such as EJF;
*and now also a very public family feud and break-up with accusations by uncle Tom of fraud and false messianism against Guma,
*accusations and counterclaims of controversial conversions involving Guma's father Otto and his wife Jamie, and presumably of the children born to them in the interim...
so that if this entire saga sounds likes like a king size soap opera of rabbis, apostates, converts, baalei teshuva, and more, it is!
To sum up, in simple terms, like all PR pieces, this Chabad PR sugar-coated output, does not touch on the far deeper and even dangerous depper issues and personalities involved.
I will not entangle myself bli neder with der krummer; just so that he does not distort the truth about a false covnersion: JAMIE AGUIAR WAS CONVERTED BY BOMZER WITHOUT ANY SINCERE KABBALAT HAMTIZVOT (NO COMMITMENT TO KEEP SHABBAT) AND IS A GOYA and that is the criticism leveled at bomzer and the enablers of this fake gerut for 50,000$ and a building!
ReplyDeleteHi there Roni/Tropper. Thought you had left for good.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, here's a big question for you, why was it that after Rav Eisenstein found out that Tropper had tricked him and forged not just his (Rav Eisenstein's) signature but also his letterhead onto the phony-baloney English language letter from the "Bais Din from nowhere located at the P. O. Box in Brooklyn" against Rabbi Bomzer, and confronted about this by Mekubal, one of the posters on this blog,
(see mekubal's report (February 20, 2009: "...Concerning the Bomzer letter there was initially some confusion. When it finally became clear that the version that I saw(and that is posted here) is in English, he denied ever seeing or signing an English letter. He said that the only letter he and the other Rabbanim signed was in Hebrew. He said the R' Tropper insisted that there be an English version, and was supposed to supply a Translation for the Rabbis to review and sign. He said that he had never seen the letter and thus never signed it. He said specifically, "I am from Chicago, I know how to write my name in English. If I were to sign an English letter, I would sign it in English." When I pointed out the an English letter does exist with his signature on it, he said "Welcome to the age of Photo-Shop, I have seen people with Semicha from the GR"A."
I did ask who he thought could be behind it, and he would only comment, "it is something that needs investigation.)
that instead of Rav Eisenstein doing the right thing and INVESTIGATING THE FORGED LETTER as he said he would (it being the right and rational thing to do according to all counts) and then issuing a public reprimaned against the blatant forgery, SHEKER and fraud that Tropper had perpetrated (all in the name of frumkeit of course, tut-tut, never admit to a forgery when caught), instead next thing we know Tropper is influencing Rav Eisenstein via his Vaad Harabonim to issue yet another attack using the EJF name as well against the ENTIRE RCA for an alleged infringement by one of its rabbis who it is now claimed converted a lady who is still a Christian?
Anyhow, this may or may not be true, only the dayanim involved from the inside would truly know (of course Tropper the self-appointed conversion super-cop turned inquisitor knows better) while Rav Eisnetsien has no crediblity in any issue regarding RCA matters as he lietrally hates Modern Orthodoxy, its rabbis and the RCA with a passion bordering on unhealthy obsession that he will go to any lengths to attack them (and it's no way to influence them either, unless one is willing to deliberately create a schism and cause a break between Modern Orthodoxy and the rest of the Torah world which neither the MOs no the Torah world really wants except for Rav Eisenstein who relishes running around the globe lobbing bombs at them acting like a veritable troll does online.)
Don't you think that not only is that king size chutzpa to stick your nose into other reputable rabbis business and pass far-distance judgment on a case in America that you basically know nothing about, but that it is also jumbo size hypocrisy for the Topper and Eisenstein duo to be passing judgment on the RCA for such things when for many years THEY THEMSELVES KNEW the same thing about Jamie Aguiar that she was not Jewish (probably still a Christian as her husband Guma was conncted to Christian Evangelicals) and point-blank refused Tropper's and Eisensteien's demands to get the super-duper holy EJF-style conversion for gentiles hitched to Jews yet Tropper and Eisenstein happily took literally many millions of dollars from her and her husband to bring rabbis to fake EJF concerts to preach the gospel of super-holy conversions following proselytizations, oh yeah, and to bring gentiles married to Jews to hotels and wine and dine them until they could not resist the blandishments and luxuriating in and joining Tropper's exclusive Haredi-style proposed mass conversions for gentiles that only a moral lunatic could concoct and hope to get away with yet?
This is wonderful examaple of the pot calling the kettle black. Kol haposel bemumo posel. Tropper and EJF come to shout about "American RCA 'Converts' Loyal Christian" when an even more shocking heading could and should have been "Tropper and EJF and Eisenstein of Va'ad Ha'Olami Legiur took millions of dollars for years from a couple in order to "sell stricter conversions" from a couple where the wife refused to convert according to their standards, and hid it from all the rabbis !."
So that nothing can be greater than this kind of chutzpa, hypocrisy and krumkeit. But then again, what can be expected of proven forgers and frauds? Just expect of them the strategy that when under fire, "the best defense is offense"!
Troppeer/Roni, go hang you head in shame you proven forger, fraud and faker !!!
While Tropper/Roni rant and rave, seems like EJF's co-founder and co-chairman Guma and wife Jamie Aguiar are having a ball.
ReplyDeleteGuma and Jamie will now be leading a parade of not just Jews but also of "tens of contemporary victims of genocide, offering a united voice against hatred and persecution, have been invited to lead the march" -- is the part of Guma's uncle Tom Kaplan's fears that his nephew Guma Aguiar is suffering from a false messiah delusional complex? Could well be.
As Tropper is discovered to be a forger of rabbinic documents, Jamie revealed to be unconverted by EJF all the years she was with them, and un-answered questions about Guma's parents Otto and Ellen religious status (they had been proud Christian evangelicals, maybe they have gone back to that), and still no rabbinical written approbations for EJF or Tropper's plans to prosletyze gentiles, EJF has borne bitter fruit and it's not all over yet!
In follow-up to Guma Aguiar - $500,000 to March of Living (February 4, 2009)
5 Towns Jewish Times.com reports:
"March Of The Living: ‘Boycott Geneva Summit’
Published on Thursday, March 12, 2009
Precisely while many countries will be convening in Geneva to condemn Israel and foment anti-Semitism during the Durban II gatherings, 10,000 youths—Jewish and non-Jewish—will be at the gates of Auschwitz, on Tuesday, April 21, to give the next generation a strong platform to “Say no to hatred today!”... The event will commemorate several important milestone dates: International Holocaust Remembrance Day (Yom HaShoah), the 70th anniversary of the beginning of World War II, and the 60th anniversary of the ratification of the International Human Rights Declaration.
Organizers of the March of the Living saluted the decision of the United States government to abstain from the planned proceedings in Geneva. “This is a compelling moral position by the U.S. leadership, displaying that hatred and intolerance have no place in international discourse,” said Dr. Shmuel Rosenman, chairman of the International March of the Living. “We call upon all governments with conscience to follow suit and demonstrate the ultimate repudiation of genocide through participation in the March of the Living 2009 at Auschwitz.”
As a further means to counter the messages that are expected to emerge from the Geneva event, tens of contemporary victims of genocide, offering a united voice against hatred and persecution, have been invited to lead the march, which this year is under the sponsorship of Guma and Jamie Aguiar. Canadian MP and former Justice Minister Irwin Cotler, internationally recognized human rights advocate, announced his decision to come to Auschwitz from the conferences he will be attending then in Geneva—together with other well-known human rights activists—to join the youthful participants at March of the Living (www.motl.org).
“Auschwitz is the most powerful symbol with which to memorialize evil found in Jewish history—in fact in the history of mankind,” said Cotler who also serves as the honorary co-chair of the International March of the Living Advisory Board. “It is a compelling reminder of the dangers of state-sanctioned incitement to hatred and genocide, and the indifference and inaction left in its wake. This global effort is a call to remembrance and action so that never again will we be indifferent in the face of mass atrocity and injustice.” In addition to Cotler, honorary co-chairs include Dan Kurtzer, Lord Greville Janner, Jennifer Laszlo-Mizrahi, Tal Brody, and Daniel Ayalon.
Since 1988, the March of the Living has brought over 120,000 students to Poland to participate in educational missions aimed at better understanding the horrors of the Holocaust.
The March of the Living, with an expected attendance of over 10,000 young people from around the world, will include a three-kilometer march from Auschwitz to the death camp at Birkenau where over 1.5 million Jews perished. Most of the participants will then visit Israel during the week of that nation’s Memorial Day and Independence Day.
“The increasingly hate-filled rhetoric of demagogues like Iran’s President Ahmadinejad is beyond unacceptable. We have invited victims of today’s oppression, including Iranians, to serve as ambassadors of hope and peace in leading the next march,” said Dr. David Machlis, vice chair of the International March of the Living.
Attracting the participation of youth from over 40 nations around the world, the March of the Living has been recognized as an international leader in furthering Holocaust education. The program works to ensure that the lessons gained while on the march are then channeled towards strongly combating acts of anti-Semitism and intolerance and promoting a heightened sense of communal responsibility and Jewish identity."
It looks that it is a good thing for klal yisroel that Guma and Jamie were able to escape Tropper/Roni’s paws.
ReplyDeleteI am sure rabbi Bomzer did not convert her without kabalas mitzvos. He probably was not so controlling, did not set up spy network to know if she covers her hair 24 hours a day and did not demand to be Jamie nidah rav.
Daas Torah said...
ReplyDeletethe Monsey Tzadik said...
It looks that it is a good thing for klal yisroel that Guma and Jamie were able to escape Tropper/Roni’s paws.
I am sure rabbi Bomzer did not convert her without kabalas mitzvos. He probably was not so controlling, did not set up spy network to know if she covers her hair 24 hours a day and did not demand to be Jamie nidah rav.
===============
Your certainty is not a substitute for evidence.
I have been informed by an independent source that Chabad working together with R' Bomzer has been unacceptably lenient in this case. That is not conclusive proof but it seems stronger than your conjecture.
Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn/da'as torah said:
ReplyDelete"I have been informed by an independent source that Chabad working together with R' Bomzer has been unacceptably lenient in this case."
It would be wise to be specific and name the name of the individual Chabad rabbi involved and not declare it to be a decision of the entire Chabad movement, since this already is a very complicated case with lots of sub-details and branches, that it be clarified if it was not ALL of Chabad that is reponsible for something as your phrase "Chabad working together with..." implies.
Similarly when there is a scandal or problem discovered in yeshiva or Hasidic community it is false and dangerous to slander the entire community for the faults of the individuals.
Likewise, because one has an antipathy to a rabbi that one disagrees with, one does not have a right to forge documents against him from other documents, otherwise things degenerate to the level of lies and distortions being utilized in the pursuit of "truth" which is very problematic and dangerous.
RaP
ReplyDeleteI see that you have a selective code for chabad and another for non chabad! You have no qualms to generalize in your criticisms at all rabbis who participate at EJF conventions; but fail to own it up when it comes to one of your own! You are no worse than many others who defend their own even when it is indefensible! After all you are a chabad chassid! so truth does not matter when it touches upon your colleagues.
In any event, you can see that Jamie was and is not properly and unnaceaptably converted; she is still not jewish and a Chabad Rabbi in conjunction with Rabbi Bomzer made this conversion. AS long as the leadership of chabad does not dissasociate from their rabbis doing, they are a partner to this sham, being that the issue has been given given public attention by their rabbi.
Furthermore: you can see in their website (Lubavitch.com)that they hail and laud Guma and JAMIE in their activities and money donations to chabad. Just now, Rabbi Eidenson has posted how "Guma and Jamie Project" (this is the heading at the website) are donating money for one of their projects. They accept this money from someone who is still a goya so that Guma can have Chabad's stamp of approval that his wife is not a shikssah! This is from the official Chabad website!
"Benny said..."
ReplyDeleteRaP: Seems that "Benny" is none other than Roni/Tropper, just by reading his words it's obvious, so it's doubly obvious he will come up with devious and dumb accusations that are lies and more red herrings.
"RaP"
RaP: Yes m'dear?
"I see that you have a selective code for chabad and another for non chabad!"
RaP: False! And a cheap shot because it is not true, but it's a nice joke, because the last thing that I am is a Chabad, or anyone's, follower. I have written plenty of sharp critiques of Chabad and the last Rebbe. Maybe not so much on this blog, where other issues take up a lot of my time, but I know who and what I am and the last thing is to call me connected to Chabad in any way.
You don't even know me in person so how can you claim that? I do not have "codes" but if you have been following the discussions relating to EJF and Tropper's dangerous mehalech over the past year, you would know that first and foremost I try to attain clarity and accuracy and not just throw words and misleading accusations around as you are doing right now.
"You have no qualms to generalize in your criticisms at all rabbis who participate at EJF conventions;"
RaP: Now you are point blank a liar when you allege this. I have said NOTHING against "ALL" rabbis who participate at EJF concerts. They are excellent people who mean well and have only good intentions. What I HAVE said is that the rabbis who attended have been misled and they have been lied to and deceived by the heretofore Tropper/Kaplan/Guma EJF triumvirate.
When looking for support outside of just Rav Eliashiv's world, Tropper/Roni ran to get "pesakim" about kiruv matters from Rav Wosner, NOTHING to do with EJF concerts, I stated that Rav Wosner of Bnie Brak does not know enough about kiruv issues. That should not be that hard to follow because no less than Rav Chaim of Brisk was baffled how to pasken the kashrus of a pupik from a chicken since he was be'iker a lamden and not a posek of treifus.
Another thing I pointed out was that what needs clarification was that perhaps Rav Reuven Feinstein was a nogei'ah bedavar in allegedly supporting Tropper because he may have been influenced by big donations from Kaplan. If I am mistaken on that point or any others, feel free to bring PROOF to the contrary.
I have also pointed out that Rav Nochum Eisenstein used an EJF gathering to publicly attack Modern Orthodox dayanim, which is a fact.
All the above are facts, truths and realities. Otherwise I have no recollection of saying anything bad about "ALL" rabbis at EJF concerts, just that Tropper and Kaplan and Guma (before Guma went his own way) fooled the attending rabbis at EJF concerts and indeed no less than the BADATS called upon and sent letters to all the rabbis to withdrew from those EJF events and sent letters to Recipients and made Publicity about it on this very blog. See: (1) Bedatz letter regarding conversion [original document] (November 18, 2007); (2) Bedatz letter regarding conversion [official translation] (November 18, 2007) ("...We therefore are turning to the poskim and the roshei yeshivos not to participate in their conventions - such as the one that occurred in America last week..."); (3) Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad [original document] (February 14, 2008); (4) Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad [translation] (February 14, 2008). So what the heck are you hacking in kop about?
"but fail to own it up when it comes to one of your own!"
RaP: Get this, Chabad is NOT "one of my own" and neither are you if you make up lies as you talk nonsense. And secondly, I do not have connection with any Chabad rabbi or the movement. Finally, I have never defended the Chabad rabbi who is evidently the one who Guma Aguiar has turned to.
No normal person would say that if one Chabad rabbi was involved in a controversial act, in this case it was allegedly Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc, Chabad representatives to Ft. Lauderdale, that ALL Chabad rabbis, thousands of them all over the world in hundreds of places all over the world, are somehow also "guilty" of the same thing he did. If he is the one under the microscope then stick to that. All of Chabad, or any entire movement or group, cannot be smeared because you hate one of them for getting money from Guma, just as all of ArtScroll cannot be smeared because they published the books about Torah ethics by Rabbi L. Pinter who is now going to go to jail for theft and fraud. Or that all of Satmar is "guilty" because a few rotten appeals have been tried and found guilty of serious sexual abuse, or that the entire Yeshiva world is immoral since they now accuse Rabbi Kolko of abuse, and so on and so forth.
I think you get the picture.
Only a pure closed-minded party hack and someone with an agenda grabs on to one person's problems and then accuses the entire movement of being just as guilty by association.
"You are no worse than many others who defend their own even when it is indefensible!"
RaP: There is no "defense" taking place here, only a request that there be SECIFICITY and ACCURACY and no broad tarnishing of entire movements because a few of its members are accused of controversial acts. That is so straightforward it's amazing I have to explain that to anyone.
"After all you are a chabad chassid!"
RaP: Nope and very funny!! And next you will accuse me of being Michelle Obama's black rabbi cousin.
DO YOU THINK THAT THIS BLOG AND ITS OWNER WOULD GO ON PRINTING MY WORDS IF I WAS A CHABAD ANYTHING?!
Generally, I stay far away from attacking entire movements because that is counter-productive. Feel free to condemen every last man and woman and scholar and child in a movement if that makes you happy, but that is not my way as any intelligent person would have known that by now.
"so truth does not matter when it touches upon your colleagues."
RaP: Another good joke! If anyone is truth-challenged it's Tropper/Roni who brazenly says on this blog that he has documents against Bomzer and then goes and FORGES one from another Hebrew one that has yet to be sent in and seen by anyone here.
Or maybe since you are such a liar yourself and it's the only way you function, that you assume the whole world is also under the influence of lies and forgery and fraud as Tropper/Roni does.
"In any event, you can see that Jamie was and is not properly and unnaceaptably converted;"
RaP: No I cannot "see" that because I do not know her personally and I was not involved with her conversion and I have not met any of the rabbis involved with her conversion and as far as I know nooone here has any connection with her here either, besides Tropper who hates Bomzer long before this Guma/Jamie business.
The letter Tropper/Roni produced was later proven to be a forged document, as reported by poster Mekubal that hints that it may be her conversion but it was not an official pesak or anything of note accept that itwas a "P.O. Box letter" that attacked, yet again, Tropper's favorite whipping boy Rabbi Bomzer.
"she is still not jewish and a Chabad Rabbi in conjunction with Rabbi Bomzer made this conversion."
RaP: Quite honestly, I do not know all the absolute facts and details and I cannot judge and because this is both a deeply personal and halachic matter for all the parties involved it requires a full wise and halachic response INSTEAD OF THE LOBBYING that you/Tropper/Roni are doing on this blog to scream and shout your point of view, but it's not working because it's much like the case of "the boy who cried wolf" since Tropper has spent his whole life shouting at his enemies that it's just viewed as another symptomatic attack of hysteria by Tropper.
"AS long as the leadership of chabad does not dissasociate from their rabbis doing, they are a partner to this sham, being that the issue has been given given public attention by their rabbi."
RaP: Where has their been any talk of conversion in any of Chabd communications? Since when does any rabbi or movement put up public notices about who it has converted or who is a convert? That is simply nuts and stupid. Guma and Jamie are just another example of (tens of) thousands of such mixed-faith and weak-conversion couples who give charity not just to Chabad but to virtually all Torah institutions all over America and Israel. You are crazy to say or think that Chabad or most Orthodox institutions care at all (aside from Satmar perhaps) how and from where they get their money.
As usual, you are making a huge error of logic and halacha because taking charity from a non-frum person, who may even be intermarried, or for whom some rabbi along the line has helped get a shaky conversion for a relative, does not mean that "therefore" "all" in the entire movement, be it Chabad, limitless numbers of Orthodox causes, Aish HaTorah are "all" automatically "guilty" as well.
Likewise, as I said that when a rabbi from Agudas Yisroel is found guilty of fraud or sexual crimes and is tried and goes to jail, yet is still not renounced or excommunicated or removed from his community but instead gets moral and emotional support from his friends and its sister communities, and so that "therefore" they are "all" "guilty" of the same wrongdoing, you true krmmer kop!
But then again, you are not interested in logic and reason, only in finger-pointing and guilt by association and scoring points to defend such a one as Tropper the proven forger and fraud.
"Furthermore: you can see in their website (Lubavitch.com)that they hail and laud Guma and JAMIE in their activities and money donations to chabad."
RaP: So? People who give money get recognized. What's the chiddush? They are being honored for their philanthropy and it is NOT a "haskoma" for weak or controversial conversion that almost surely 99% of Chabad readers of that site do not even know about the private life of Jamie because so far ONLY Tropper is screaming about Jamie's conversion and they don't read "the Tropper news".
It's not polite and in fact anti-halachic to talk to converts about their (former) status. If you can't see how obvious this is, and it's obvious that you probably can't, take note that you are absurdly putting together pieces as it suits you that do not add up, except in your feverish head.
"Just now, Rabbi Eidenson has posted how "Guma and Jamie Project" (this is the heading at the website) are donating money for one of their projects."
RaP: And all I asked is that Rabbi Eidensohn be accurate and mention the specfic people, such as Rabbi Moshe Meir and Pnina Lipszyc, Chabad representatives to Ft. Lauderdale if he has issues with them helping Jamie get a conversion. Why is that so complicated?
"They accept this money from someone who is still a goya so that Guma can have Chabad's stamp of approval that his wife is not a shikssah!"
RaP: Such hypocrisy from a pro-Tropper poster because as long as Jamie was okaying millions of dollars to Tropper and his cockamamy projects, and none of the rabbis at EJF concerts were even informed that Jamie was not converted via EJF, then her money was "super-kosher", but now that Jamie is busy with Chabad, she's no good and it's no good, the biggest double-standard and jealousy on the face of the world.
Tropper/Roni/you and EJF have no credibility when they call Jamie ugly names simply because they took millions from her and never told the world who she truly was, notice when Guma was co-founding and co-running EJF noone there called Jamie a "goya", and they kept it to themselves, but now that she is not with Tropper and EJF and prefers to okay millions of dollars to Chabad and Nefesh BeNefesh and March of the Living and whatnot, all to the chagrin of Tropper who has to boil in his juices as all this goes on and there's nothing he can do about it execept come on to this blog and rant and rave which is pretty pathetic, and he sees all the rivers of money he would have loved to get for himself and his pet projects and for EJF "go down the drain" to his avowed enemies. Such is life.
"This is from the official Chabad website!"
RaP: So what? Tropper had Guma Aguiar on the official EJF website as the official co-founder and co-chairman of EJF when they were trying to sell mass conversions to Haredi Judaism by proselytizations to gentiles hitched to Jews and brought hundreds of rabbis to EJF concerts and never mentioned a peeps either on the website or at any time that at the very head of EJF the one writing the checks and dishing out the millions of dollars was Guma Aguiar (an admitted former [?] Christian evangelical) who was hitched to a mystery woman from Brazil 9and having kids with her yet all the time) and she point blank refused to undergo an ultra-Haredi EJF Tropper required and suprevised conversion all the years and that hundreds of big rabbis were fooled at the EJF concerts and for years the EJF website lauded and praised the status of Guma Aguiar who was all the time hitched to Jamie and having kids with her yet. Guma even gave a sefer Torah to Tropper's Kol Yaakov yeshiva and was then seen as a great hero by Tropper, now that he gives to Chabad he is a villain.
The sword you raise cuts both ways.
[...]
ReplyDeleteWhile [...] change some his lies and mechutzafdike attacks at Gedolim like Rav REuven Feinstein (where in the past he was very crass about his ctiriticsm of him), he still clung to his discreet chutzpah of saying that he "needs clarification was that perhaps Rav Reuven Feinstein was a nogei'ah bedavar in allegedly supporting Tropper because he may have been influenced by big donations from Kaplan", suggesing the chutzpahdike argument that Rav REuven paskened the way he did for "big danations", [...] and party chabad loyalism does not see how himself or his colleagues may be "influenced" by the "big donations" to give a an essnan zonah hechsher to fake gerus and to bring goyim to klal yisroel, and at least to disavow from now on the practice of giving hechsher to essnan zonah money, and while he repeats the canard that Tropper "forged" a document which a PATENT LIE OF [...] TO MAKE IT SOUND TRUE, the letter against bomzer is REAL and the only for his partners to debunk it, is by TERRORIZING rabbis who signed and claim it is "FORGED"; it is TRUE AS THE DAY!
[...] misses a main analytical point that is lost to his chollent exerptise:
"In any event, you can see that Jamie was and is not properly and unnaceaptably converted;"
RaP: No I cannot "see" that because I do not know her personally and I was not involved with her conversion and I have not met any of the rabbis involved with her conversion and as far as I know nooone here has any connection with her here either, besides Tropper who hates Bomzer long before this Guma/Jamie business.
The letter Tropper/Roni produced was later proven to be a forged document, as reported by poster Mekubal that hints that it may be her conversion but it was not an official pesak or anything of note accept that itwas a "P.O. Box letter" that attacked, yet again, Tropper's favorite whipping boy Rabbi Bomzer.
"she is still not jewish and a Chabad Rabbi in conjunction with Rabbi Bomzer made this conversion."
RaP: Quite honestly, I do not know all the absolute facts and details and I cannot judge and because this is both a deeply personal and halachic matter for all the parties involved it requires a full wise and halachic response INSTEAD OF THE LOBBYING that you/Tropper/Roni are doing on this blog to scream and shout your point of view, but it's not working because it's much like the case of "the boy who cried wolf" since Tropper has spent his whole life shouting at his enemies that it's just viewed as another symptomatic attack of hysteria by Tropper.
"AS long as the leadership of chabad does not dissasociate from their rabbis doing, they are a partner to this sham, being that the issue has been given given public attention by their rabbi."
RaP: Where has their been any talk of conversion in any of Chabd communications? Since when does any rabbi or movement put up public notices about who it has converted or who is a convert? That is simply nuts and stupid. Guma and Jamie are just another example of (tens of) thousands of such mixed-faith and weak-conversion couples who give charity not just to Chabad but to virtually all Torah institutions all over America and Israel. You are crazy to say or think that Chabad or most Orthodox institutions care at all (aside from Satmar perhaps) how and from where they get their money.
RAP wrote: " As usual, you are making a huge error of logic and halacha because "taking charity from a non-frum person, who may even be intermarried, or for whom some rabbi along the line has helped get a shaky conversion for a relative, does not mean that "therefore" "all" in the entire movement, be it Chabad, limitless numbers of Orthodox causes, Aish HaTorah are "all" automatically "guilty" as well".
We are not talking about taking charity form a person who made a misdeed in the past (which is a question in itself) -and the irony is that [...] hypocrite makes from this point a major issue when he criticizes tropper which shows his irrational hatred and mission of his krummer life to kill tropper, but when it is to kill tropper then it is the biggest crime that he took money from them, but hwen it is for you chabad colleagues you disguise as an aish hstorah fan and state that it is all right and find many krummer pretexts- ,
we are talking about taking money with AS THE PAYMENT OF FAKE CONVERSION!; WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TAKING MONEY WITH THE PURPOSE TO ACCEPT THE (FAKE AND FLASE) JEWISHNESS OF A GOYA! THAT IS ESSNAN ZONAH!
It is not, [...], similar to giving support to a criminal who goes to jail; it is STATING THAT CRIME IS NOT A CRIME! [...]!
"In any event, you can see that Jamie was and is not properly and unnaceaptably converted;"
RaP: No I cannot "see" that because I do not know her personally and I was not involved with her conversion",
But others have been and Rabbi Eidensohn stated that his source tells him that is "unnacceptable"! and so have others, you (disingenously, to cover to your colleguaes essnan zonah) do not know about it have no right to tell others not to discuss this crime!
"she is still not jewish and a Chabad Rabbi in conjunction with Rabbi Bomzer made this conversion."
She is a GOYA! and with your [... ] sevoros when you write "and in fact anti-halachic to talk to converts about their (former) status" you show once more that you belong to the chabad group that uses this krummer svoro: there no issur to tell a GOYA THAT SHE IS AGOYA! OR TO TELL A SAFEK GER THAT HE/SHE NEEDS TO REDO GERUT! ON THE CONTRARY IT IS A MITZVAH TO TO STATE THAT A NON GIYORET IS NOT JEWISH YET!
"AS long as the leadership of chabad does not dissasociate from their rabbis doing, they are a partner to this sham, being that the issue has been given given public attention by their rabbi."
RaP: "...Since when does any rabbi or movement put up public notices about who it has converted or who is a convert? ...Guma and Jamie are just another example of (tens of) thousands of such mixed-faith and weak-conversion couples who give charity not just to Chabad but to virtually all Torah institutions all over America and Israel...."
ROni: [...], the difference is: when anyone accepts money from someone who has a mixed baggage (even if it is wrong) he is ENDORSING the wrongdoing; here the money is given as an exchnage for the FALSE SERVICES RENDERED TO STATE THAT GOYA IS JEWISH!
"Furthermore: you can see in their website (Lubavitch.com)that they hail and laud Guma and JAMIE in their activities and money donations to chabad."
RaP: So? People who give money get recognized. What's the chiddush? They are being honored for their philanthropy and it is NOT a "haskoma" for weak or controversial conversion that almost":
[...], THE MONEY GIVEN HERE IS IN ECXCHNAGE FOR THE SERVICES RENDERED BY ONE OF THEIR RABBIS (LIYSCYC) TO HELP MAKE THE FALSE GERUT! THIS MONEY IS PART OF PREMIUM TO DECLARE A GOYA A JEW!
wHILE "surely 99% of Chabad readers of that site do not even know about the private life of Jamie because so far ONLY Tropper is screaming about Jamie's conversion "
Roni: "( but people Rabbi Eidensohn and his sources do know about that from sources other than tropper); But people in the leadership of chabad know that one of their rabbis helped manufactor the fake gerut of jamie!
"They accept this money from someone who is still a goya so that Guma can have Chabad's stamp of approval that his wife is not a shikssah!"
RaP: "Such hypocrisy from a pro-Tropper poster because as long as Jamie was okaying millions of dollars to Tropper and his cockamamy projects, and none of the rabbis at EJF concerts were even informed that Jamie was not converted via EJF,"
Roni: exactly [...]! that money was in EXCHANGE TO DECLARE A GOYA AS JEWISH! ON THE CONTRARY HE WAS NOBLE NOT TO SWAY TO THE NISAYON; WHEREAS YOUR BUDDIES AND ENABLERS ARE GETTING MONEY TO HELP MAKE THE FAKE GERUT AND TO HELP CONTINUE THE LIE THAT SHE IS JEWISH!
but now that Jamie is busy with Chabad, she's no good and it's no good":
yES [...], to process something simple), now that she wants to be accepted as jewish then the money that is accepted in exchange for this is ESSNAN ZONAH MONEY!
RAP:"... Tropper/Roni/you and EJF have no credibility when they call Jamie ugly names simply because they took millions from her and never told the world who she truly was,":
ROni:there is no crime of giving a fake hechsher of jewish to a goya!
RAP: notice when Guma was co-founding and co-running EJF noone there called Jamie a "goya", ":
Roni: [...], IT IS IRRELEVANT AT THAT TIME, FOR EVERYONE KNEW SHE WAS A GOYA, SHE HERSELF WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT SHE WAS A GOYA; WHERES YOUR BUDDIES ACCEPTD MONEY TO DECLARE A LIE THAT HSE IS JEWISH, [...]?
"This is from the official Chabad website!"
"RaP: So what? Tropper had Guma Aguiar on the official EJF website as the official co-founder and co-chairman of EJF when they were trying to sell mass conversions to Haredi Judaism by proselytizations to gentiles hitched to Jews and brought hundreds of rabbis to EJF concerts and never mentioned a peeps either on the website or at any time that at the very head of EJF the one writing the checks and dishing out the millions of dollars was Guma Aguiar (an admitted former [?] Christian evangelical) who was hitched to a mystery woman from Brazil 9and having kids with her yet all the time)"
rONI: BLAH BLAH BLAH AND LONG TREEATISES OF CHOLLENT [...] ejf did not endorse her being jewish for her money, chabd website gets money BECAUSE one of their rabbis helped make the LIE THAT THIS GOYA IS JEWISH!
rap:" and she point blank refused to undergo an ultra-Haredi EJF Tropper required and suprevised conversion all the years "
rONI: [...]! FIRST HE STATES THAT HE HAS NO ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE AND NOW HE CLAIMS THAT JAMIE REFUSES TO "ULTRA-HAREDI COVNERSION"; RABBI EIDENSON SOURCES STATED THAT SHE DID NOT EWANT AN ACCEPTABLE COVNERSION; SHE UNDERWENDT AND "UNNACERPTABLE COVNERSION!
rap:"and that hundreds of big rabbis were fooled at the EJF concerts and for years the EJF website lauded and praised the status of Guma Aguiar who was all the time hitched to Jamie and having kids with her yet"
rONI: [...], the money was not ACCEPTED n IN EXCHANGE TO ACCEPT JAMIE AS JEWISH! and the proof is that THEY DID NOT ACCEPT HER AS JEWISH! WHEREAS YOUR COLLEAGUES ACCEPT MONEY IN EXCHNAGE TO DECLARE HER JEWISH WHEN SHE IS A GOYA!
Rabbi Eidenson,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate that you do not want ad hominom attacks against one of your regular writers and you edited my remarks against ikshut's posts (and also filled with hepech haemet posts) . But why the double standard: why do you not edit the same RAP's ad honimom attacks at other people and myself in this very post(with many of the same words)?
roni said...
ReplyDeleteRabbi Eidenson,
I appreciate that you do not want ad hominom attacks against one of your regular writers and you edited my remarks against ikshut's posts (and also filled with hepech haemet posts) . But why the double standard: why do you not edit the same RAP's ad honimom attacks at other people and myself in this very post(with many of the same words)?
==================
The question is what is your goal. Do you want to ventilate or do you want your message to come across to others who are not committed one way or the other.
I try cutting down on the yelling so that the message can come across.
When you are angry your arguments sound childish. I cut out enough anger so that your arguments come across as cogent.
With Rap when he gets angry I simply delete the whole posting so you don't realize that I censor his work also.
My goal is not to standardize the number of attacks or the language but what needs to be modified so that people will actually read the comments and not be turned off the language. When you have made the same point 20 times - you lose the attention of the reader.
Originally I didn't censor either of you because it is major burden on my time.
I think both you and Rap have much to contribute - I just wish there was less personal animosity involved.
1) it still leaves the question: you delete the "krummer" and leave his same statement up,
ReplyDelete2) you think that my points are repetitious; most of most of his points are all repetitions of the very same point (when there is a point; most of them are pointless and krum. It is important to make the point that most of his points do NOT address the issues discussed. He lacks a great deal of make poshuter chilukim). I'll give an example (and rabim hem vee efshar lefortam) : he writes LONG TREATISES about the dine and vine given by tropper as if that makes a point and repeats over and over the same thing over and over as if he discovered america. the same with the dramatics of the rabbis attending the conventions where he denigrates rabbonim and calls them selling thmselves for money, the way that he relates to Rav Reuven, where even know, he states that he is a "nogea bedavar" for accepting bribes for his instituions What point is enhanced by these false bizayon of a person in the statue of Rav REvuen when in fact that is a point plus for R. tropper?!).
My goal is to get accross the simple distinction between improprities (if it is proper or not for tropper to have his organization, an instituion get money from a mechalel shabbos) and ENDORSEMENTS and PARTENERSHIPS OF THE GREATEST AVERA OF DECEIVING PEOPLE THAT A GOYA IS A JEW AND OF THE WORSE SIN OF MAKING A GOYA TO SOUND JEWISH AND OF SELLING YIDDISHKEYT AND CORRUPTING YIDDISHKEYT BY CALLING A AVERA A MITZVA!
I do not have the time and energy to fight der...especially according to the advice of Dovid Hameelch in Tehillim 18; and i decided in the past not to involve myself in these discussions bli neder and i'll bli neder stop again...but when someone calls a selling of yiddishkeyt something "noble" and when he calls the corruption of yiddishkeyt by selling a building and other projects for declaring a goya a jew and he calls that a "noble act"; then he has to be exposed a hypochrite and a false proponent for his causes; for then his only cause is the hatred of an individual and his success and not the causes he claims; had there been any sincerity that the causes he claims pains him he would have trembled before the hails the despicable esnan zonah actions as "noble story".
I'll repeat now, the simple chiluk between:
1) someone making a avera in his personal life and the avera was not done in the capacity of the organization (when member of Satmar or Artscroll etc. sins privately it is NOT in the name of Artscroll or Satmar); whereas when a Chabad Rabbi acts inapropriately in the name of a Chabad (the capacity of a chabad rabbi);
2) The difference where a person sinned already and now we are mekarev him to do a mitzvah that is something positive; but when one is mekarev him with the intent to legitimize and give hechsher for something improper that is wrong and a partnership to the avera,
3)especially when there is a sellout of something of high principle in yiddishkeyt to be "sold" in exchange for a donation of e$$nan zonah money!
Roni wrote:
ReplyDeleteMy goal is to get accross the simple distinction between improprities (if it is proper or not for tropper to have his organization, an instituion get money from a mechalel shabbos) and ENDORSEMENTS and PARTENERSHIPS OF THE GREATEST AVERA OF DECEIVING PEOPLE THAT A GOYA IS A JEW AND OF THE WORSE SIN OF MAKING A GOYA TO SOUND JEWISH AND OF SELLING YIDDISHKEYT AND CORRUPTING YIDDISHKEYT BY CALLING A AVERA A MITZVA!
=================
I am impressed. The signal to noise ratio is very high and there is no noise i.e., screaming.
I'll try to lower the volume! but the points will be loud and clear! t
ReplyDeletePrimary and secondary issues regarding Rabbi Tropper and EJF not to be confused.
ReplyDeleteCentral issue of Rabbi Tropper and EJF being challnged by Rabbi Eidensohn & Rav Shternbuch and BADATS remains unresolved after much meandering.
Poster Roni/Tropper has so far introduced a series or secondory and lesser events, all the enemies of Tropper as "targets" such as Rabbi Bomzer and calling Jamie Aguiar a "shiksa", and attacks on RaP are mere red-herring and smokescreen distractions by Tropper/Roni trying to escape from his predicament.
No amount of stonewalling and name-calling and distractions by Roni/Tropper will fulfil the requirement for Rabbi Tropper to come up with proper correspondence with Rabbi Eidensohn and Rav Shternbuch whom he has insulted without apologising and has continued to ignore and belittle the calls of the BADATS for EJF to stop its proselytizing activitivities and for rabbis to stay away from all EJF events.
(The following assumes an in-depth familiarity with prior posts on this drawn out subject, so that links to prior posts are not inserted in this post. Everything is verified, feel free to ask.)
Poster Tropper/Roni's latest responses above merit a general reply and maybe it's also time to review and recapitulate what has been going on here for this last year because he seems to be going deeper and deeper into creating more and more red-herring arguments and distrcations and now trying to make "RaP" into the issue when the core problem is and remains Rabbi Tropper's goals to proselytize in evangelical-style to limitless numbers of gentiles hitched to Jews by the means of EJF.
The problem is and remains Rabbi Tropper's goals and the controversial nature of EJF's mission insofar as it functions as a vehicle for mass proseltyizations to gentiles, but not mind you, when it craftily changes chamelion-like into an organization that seeks "higher standards" for conversions when it needs to convince rabbis to come along for the EJF ride at concerts or wherever it needs to sell itself.
For over a year the main discussions on this blog were always focused on the new EJF organization and its two known main founders, Rabbi Tropper and Dr. Tom Kaplan. Tropper is still heard from, but Kaplan is hardly seen or heard from lately. Nothing stays the same and from recent events we have now learned that Kaplan has had a major falling out with his nephew Guma Aguiar and that Tropper has had a major theological and hashkafic falling out with Guma Aguiar who after spending time Tropper as his rebbe now openly aligns himself with a new rebbe Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc, Chabad representatives to Ft. Lauderdale.
Please pay note that it was not I but the owner of this blog Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn/da'as torah who commenced and retains the inquiries regarding Rabbi Tropper and EJF and in conjunction with Rav Shternbuch and the full BADATS in Yerushalayim saw the dangers of EJF's goals and consequently asked for OFFICIAL clarifications from Rabbi Tropper and for traditional WRITTEN haskomas for EJF and its work.
According to the owner of this blog there have been no satisfactory official and mentschlichdikke clarifications from Rabbi Tropper and even with hundreds of rabbis attending the EJF concerts not a single classical haskoma, not even a one liner, has been forcoming from any gadol official stationary that he approves EJF and of Tropper's work. Only a big PR poster pashkvil-style with nice photos and lots of paid for press-releases from LUBICOM and other sources, which do not amount to a shmek tabak unlike an official haskoma that would make all the difference.
All this was and is an open inyan between Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn & Rav Shternbuch and the BADATS versus Rabbi tropper and the EJF. Until the vikuach between those parties gets fully resolved the case remains open. That is the core of the issue and nothing else. I have chosen to add some comments and do a little research here and there, but "RaP" has not and has never been an important issue here at any time.
RaP is just a blogger in cyberspace with some interest in this subject, but he neither originaaed the subject nor anything related to it, so kindly do not shoot innocent bystanders simply because you hate the message they write about that maybe makes for nice red-herrings and distractions from your own problems and issues. Not much else.
When EJF was laaunched a couple of years ago there had been high profile PR attention given to the lay head of EJF at its founding Dr. Tom Kaplan who it was assumed was at the helm of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and was in charge of serving out the millions of dollars to bring rabbis from all over to EJF concerts.
Noone heard or knew about his family and personal background.
Noone knew or heard about uncle Tom Kaplan's sister Ellen and that she had once moved to Brazil and that she had married a gentile Otto Aguiar and that they had become Christian Evenagelicals and that they also had a son Guma born in Brazil who, when they moved to the USA, was thoroughly schooled in an elite Christian evangelical school and that somehow or other lo and behold Guma also managed to find and marry a Brazilian gentile woman (how and why, noone knows yet) and that they had kids, and that ALL this was happening long before anything to do with Chabad was even mentioned.
Tropper KNEW all this stuff all along and then some but he kept it ALL hidden from the rabbis he ran to to get encouragement from and from those he lured with fancy lodgings at hotels and ultra-glat and chalav yisroel saucy foods and drinks at hotels to have concerts about conversions all while at EJF headquarters an admitted and untried bunch of novice bosses and former [?] Christian evangelicals like Guma Aguiar and his mother Ellen really ran the show together from the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and that wowie-kazowie irony or ironies Guma was married to a Brazilian gentile woman yet who we have been told did not accept demands to get an EJF-style conversion (she later supposedly got one with th help of Rabbi Herbert Bomzer of Yeshiva University and Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc, Chabad representatives to Ft. Lauderdale) and to boot, when still not Jewish and at EJF, she and Guma had kids then too all while the Aguiar family, Guma, Jamie, Ellen, Otto, and uncle Tom, were writing checks in the millions to bring the world's top-class Haredi rabbis to talk about how important it all was to get the utmost Haredi conversions for gentiles hitched to Jews -- and to host and toast and wine and dine in the fanciest hotels FOR FREE hundreds of couples of Jews hitched to gentiles to "reach out" and proselytize to them about the need for super-duper strict conversion with Tropper to act as the ultimate "guardian of the newly converted" who could and did pull the plug on any converts if they slipped from a strict Haredi lifestyle, even if it was a desire on the part of the couple to be more Modern Orthodox -- not good enough for Tropper. What a grand show of large scale fraud and crowd manipulation at its worst.
Now as it turns out, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation was not under uncle Tom's sole control but on the contrary it was founded and is still run by his sister Ellen and her son, uncle Tom's nephew Guma. So that the sheer audacity and hypocrisy of Tropper knowingly taking money from Guma while he knew full well that not only were there serious questions about Guma's hashkofas since it has come to light that Guma has a mind of his own and articulates a vision of what he thinks Judaism is, especially in "reaching out" to gentiles and "lost Jews" that far more resembles Christian evangelical thinking and methodology and has almost zero in common with true kiruv and emmesdikke Yiddishskeit.
Not only that but also that Guma was not just hitched to a non-Jewish woman, and it's highly doubtful that Tropper & Co were crassly insulting her to her face as being a lowly "shiksa" (everyone knows, even most cultured gentiles, it's a dangerous perjorative to bandy about) and Tropper would not have been that crazy to insult Jamie to her face but as we know he is quite capable of turning on the charm offensive as long as Jamie was not getting in the way of Guma writing checks to the tune of millions of dollars to underwrite any and all of Tropper's whims and fancies be it his Kol Yaakov yeshiva, his Horizons projects, and then the hair-brained EJF itself. Not to forget all the grants and subsidies that were given to Torah institutions and rabbis when they could prove their willingness to be of help or support the broader EJF mission and the dangerous proseltyzation agendas and ambitions of Tropper and uncle Tom.
Add in that Tropper and EJF were on the take to the tunes of heavy millions of dollars all while Guma and Jamie wer having babies together on Tropper's watch -- but as long as the millions kept rolling into Tropper's and EJF's and Kol Yaakov yeshiva's coffers and Tropper could control them and enjoy their fruits and the power and prestige it brought him everything was honky-dory and noone even heard about Guma or Jamie, let alone of Rabbi Bomzer or any Chabad rabbi. All that came just a couple of months ago when desperate to cover up for an obvious loss of someone like Guma the golem who could write checks in the millions like nothing, and then all of a sudden panic and terror sets in and the Tropper crowd starts to panic when some of this is pointed out and discussed on this blog, and no doubt there is still much more that will come out and that has not been revealed yet, such as:
*What exactly did Tropper know and when did he know it?
*What has happened to Otto and Ellen Aguiar, Guma's parents?
*Is Otto still interested in Judaism? Poster Tropper/Roni has already stated that Otto was converted by Rabbi Bomzer, when was that, before or after Jamie Aguiar's conversion by Bomzer?
*What is the true sequence of events and connection between all these who had been at one time followers and supporters of Tropper and his hair-brained schemes: Otto Aguiar's conversion; Ellen Aguiar's renouncing of Christian evangelicalism; Guma's renunciation of Christian evangelicalism; Jamie Aguiar's conversion; the conversion status of Guma's and Jamie's children; and last but not least what is the staus of Dr. Tom Kaplan's wife who is also reported to be a convert, who converted here and what were the circumstanaces surrounding the conversion [the latter is unclear and has never been clarified].
*Why exactly did Jamie refuse to go along with the mission statement of the EJF organization that her husband co-founded and co-chaired and what really forced them to turn to Rabbi Bomzer and Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc, Chabad representatives to Ft. Lauderdale?
*What has been the fate of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation since the public split between uncle Tom and nephew Guma?
*Why was the story reported in the media about uncle Tom accusing Guma of suffering from a false messiah complex been suppressed since it first made headlines? Why has he suppressed it?
All these questions need answers, but again, please note that the Guma/Jamie/Bomzer/Lipszyc episode is not the crux of the matter of this long stretching thread of posts on this blog. Nor is the issue of Rabbi Bomzer or Bomzer's actions and credentials and alleged conversion of Guma's wife the central point either, it's just a red herring a decoy that poster Tropper/Roni has craftily and deviously thrown up to throw people off the original trail and the ongoing and still unresolved matter between Rabbi Eidensohn & Rav Shternbuch & BADATS vs Rabbi Tropper & EJF.