Shabbos(75a): Bar Kappara said that whoever knows how to calculate the cycles and planetary movement but doesn’t is described in Yeshaya (5:12):”But they don’t pay attention to the work of G‑d and don’t see the activities of His hands.” R’ Yochanon said: “How do we know that it is a mitzva for a person to calculate the cycles and planetary movement? Because it says in Devarim (4:6): ‘For this is your wisdom and understanding in the eyes of the nations of the world.’ What is the wisdom and understanding in the eyes of the nations? It is the calculation of the cycles and planetary movement.
Rashi(Shabbos 75a): In the eyes of the nations of the world - because it is a recognized wisdom. It is provides readily verifiable information concerning the movement of the sun and constellations in that it predicts that a particular year will be bountiful and it is in fact so or that a particular year will have little rain and it is so. That is because all is determined by the movement of the sun and the constellations. Ultimately everything is determined by mazel. It depends upon the time that the sun enters into the mazel.
Netziv(Devarim 32:2): ... an elevated person is nurtured through the study of talmud which is compared to rain. And by means of his understanding of Bible which comes through the study of agada which is compared to dew. He then can come to proper ethical sensibilities and knowledge of how to conduct himself in society and to elevate himself by means of knowledge of secular wisdom which is compared to the sun. This is expressed in Koheles where is says, “What is the benefit for a person who labors under the sun?” This indicates that knowledge of natural science and society brings honor to a person in the eyes of the nations of the world and thus serves to elevate the stature of Jews. However the critical issue is the order of the education. First comes rain (talmudic studies) and afterwards knowledge of agada which is compared to dew. It is only afterwards that it is appropriate to enhance ones abilities through secular knowledge which is comparable to the sun. However prior to talmudic studies, secular studies do not serve to elevate the honor of Jews at all. This is also true even if the secular studies are preceded by the in depth study of the Bible which is compared to dew. That is because without mastering talmudic studies the secular studies will serve to pervert and distort the understanding of the Bible.
Ramchal(Derech Chochma p116): A person who needs to mingle with the non‑Jewish scholars should learn that which causes them to respect him. Consequently G‑d will be sanctified through him.
Vilna Gaon(Kol HaTor 5:2- Cited by R’ Hillel of Shklov):[[It is well known that the eminent R Eliyahu occupied himself extensively with natural phenomena and mundane investigations to gain a better understanding of the wisdom of the Torah, to sanctify G-d’s name in the eyes of the nations and to hasten the final redemption. Even in his youth, he excelled in all seven wisdoms and sought ever more knowledge. He also ordered his disciples to learn whatever they could about the seven wisdoms by which the world is investigated, so that that science of Israel – in conjunction with the wisdom of the Torah – would achieve great recognition in the eyes of the nations, as it is written, “For this is your wisdom and your insight in the eyes of the nations.” Thus , Israel would achieve spiritual superiority, as Scripture states: “To exalt you above all the nations,which He did for praise, for fame and for glory.” He often asked us rhetorically: how are the contemporary Torah figures sanctifying G-d’s name, as many of the earlier authorities did, by their great knowledge of the secrets of nature and the wonders of the Creator? Many righteous gentiles also extolled the wisdom of Israel, possessed by the Torah scholars, the members of the Sanhedrin, the Tanaim and Amoraim, etc. In later generations, there were such giants as our teacher, Rambam, R’ Yomtov Lipman Heller and others who sanctified G-d’s name abundantly in the eyes of the nations through their knowledge of secular research.
Rashi(Shabbos 75a): In the eyes of the nations of the world - because it is a recognized wisdom. It is provides readily verifiable information concerning the movement of the sun and constellations in that it predicts that a particular year will be bountiful and it is in fact so or that a particular year will have little rain and it is so. That is because all is determined by the movement of the sun and the constellations. Ultimately everything is determined by mazel. It depends upon the time that the sun enters into the mazel.
Netziv(Devarim 32:2): ... an elevated person is nurtured through the study of talmud which is compared to rain. And by means of his understanding of Bible which comes through the study of agada which is compared to dew. He then can come to proper ethical sensibilities and knowledge of how to conduct himself in society and to elevate himself by means of knowledge of secular wisdom which is compared to the sun. This is expressed in Koheles where is says, “What is the benefit for a person who labors under the sun?” This indicates that knowledge of natural science and society brings honor to a person in the eyes of the nations of the world and thus serves to elevate the stature of Jews. However the critical issue is the order of the education. First comes rain (talmudic studies) and afterwards knowledge of agada which is compared to dew. It is only afterwards that it is appropriate to enhance ones abilities through secular knowledge which is comparable to the sun. However prior to talmudic studies, secular studies do not serve to elevate the honor of Jews at all. This is also true even if the secular studies are preceded by the in depth study of the Bible which is compared to dew. That is because without mastering talmudic studies the secular studies will serve to pervert and distort the understanding of the Bible.
Ramchal(Derech Chochma p116): A person who needs to mingle with the non‑Jewish scholars should learn that which causes them to respect him. Consequently G‑d will be sanctified through him.
Vilna Gaon(Kol HaTor 5:2- Cited by R’ Hillel of Shklov):[[It is well known that the eminent R Eliyahu occupied himself extensively with natural phenomena and mundane investigations to gain a better understanding of the wisdom of the Torah, to sanctify G-d’s name in the eyes of the nations and to hasten the final redemption. Even in his youth, he excelled in all seven wisdoms and sought ever more knowledge. He also ordered his disciples to learn whatever they could about the seven wisdoms by which the world is investigated, so that that science of Israel – in conjunction with the wisdom of the Torah – would achieve great recognition in the eyes of the nations, as it is written, “For this is your wisdom and your insight in the eyes of the nations.” Thus , Israel would achieve spiritual superiority, as Scripture states: “To exalt you above all the nations,which He did for praise, for fame and for glory.” He often asked us rhetorically: how are the contemporary Torah figures sanctifying G-d’s name, as many of the earlier authorities did, by their great knowledge of the secrets of nature and the wonders of the Creator? Many righteous gentiles also extolled the wisdom of Israel, possessed by the Torah scholars, the members of the Sanhedrin, the Tanaim and Amoraim, etc. In later generations, there were such giants as our teacher, Rambam, R’ Yomtov Lipman Heller and others who sanctified G-d’s name abundantly in the eyes of the nations through their knowledge of secular research.
This post does not seem to address the issue of learning secular studies for the sake of parnassa. was this post brought in addition to the previous posts on who should be learning in kollel as a derech agav?
ReplyDeleteBartley Kulp said...
ReplyDeleteThis post does not seem to address the issue of learning secular studies for the sake of parnassa. was this post brought in addition to the previous posts on who should be learning in kollel as a derech agav?
======================
this a separate issue. It is part of the larger issue of the purpose of Jews i.e., kiddush HaShem and chillul haShem - where success or failure is judged by the reaction of non-Jews. Kollel according to the Rambam is a subset of kiddush haShem and chillul haShem.
Berachos (6a):R. Nahman b. Isaac said to R. Hiyya b. Abin: What is written in the tefillin of the Lord of the Universe? — He replied to him: And who is like Thy people Israel, a nation one in the earth.25 Does, then, the Holy One, blessed be He, sing the praises of Israel? — Yes, for it is written: Thou hast avouched the Lord this day . . . and the Lord hath avouched thee this day.26 The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Israel: You have made me a unique entity27 in the world, and I shall make you a unique entity in the world. ‘You have made me a unique entity in the world’, as it is said: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.28 ‘And I shall make you a unique entity in the world’, as it is said: And who is like Thy people Israel, a nation one in the earth.29 R. Aha b. Raba said to R. Ashi: This accounts for one case, what about the other cases?30 — He replied to him: [They contain the following verses]: For what great nation is there, etc.; And what great nation is there, etc.;31 Happy art thou, O Israel, etc.;32 Or hath God assayed, etc.;33 and To make thee high above all nations.34 If so, there would be too many cases? — Hence [you must say]: For what great nation is there, and And what great nation is there, which are similar, are in one case; Happy art thou, O Israel, and Who is like Thy people, in one case; Or hath God assayed, in one case; and To make thee high, in one case.
while everyone seems to focus on the seifa, the reisha seems to imply a larger reason than the other nations; seeing the hand (me-undestanding the mind to the extent we can) of God.
ReplyDeleteGCF
If Chazal would have come up with modern science, would we have called it secular? Isn't a lot of legal code of the Talmud "secular" in nature? Yet we call this Torah.
ReplyDeleteHence, Joel Rich is right, and both the Rambam and the GR"A would concur. "Secular" knowledge promotes one's achievements in Torah. The seven Chochmot belong to Torah. Learning them is essential.
We have at least three reasons for studying the Chomchmot of the world: One is Kiddush HaShem, the second is Parnassa, but the third surpasses both - Torah. So, what happened?
The problem is that there are those who really seem to object to any reason being necessary to learn secular studie. They are to be learned, as it were, l'shma.
ReplyDeletehttp://machzikeihadas.blogspot.com/2008/09/chochmah-lshma-purpose-of-scientific.html