https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/318734
As I stated above, a 10% divorce rate is still too high. Dr. Yitzchak Schechter has done landmark studies on divorce among the Orthodox. He presented data in 2015 obtained from 310 divorced respondents. He found that 57% of Orthodox divorces were acrimonious. This is extraordinarily disturbing. It is no doubt why thousands of women become Agunot (“chained” women-unable to marry). The male in Orthodox circles must provide a Get to his wife in order for her to remarry. In America various Get laws especially if a pre-nup agreement is signed have helped somewhat to lessen the Agunah Crisis. It is another major crisis facing Jewish Society. It is unfortunately another by-product of the divorce crisis.
Dr. Schechter lists the ten factors leading to divorce in the Orthodox community. They include: 1.verbal and emotional abuse, 2.demeaning or feeling put down,3.communication problems, 4.unmet emotional needs, 5.sexual issues, 6.mental illness, 7.religious differences, 8.undisclosed information, 9.financial difficulties, 10.different life goals.
I read a news article in Israel a few years back. Mixed Sephardi _ashkenazi marriages , if it is male Sephardi /female ashkenazi, there's a much higher divorce rate than average. The other way around, and it is just like the average divorce rate.
ReplyDeleteSo you spend the first 18 years of their lives telling children that the opposite sex is a source of impurity and sin. You tell them that any time they spend interacting is a source of impurity and sin. You forbid any activities that would develop social skills to help boys and girls interact and respect each other. You give them no education to enable them to get decent jobs. And you give them a whole 3 days to decide if they want to enter a lifetime partnership. And then people are surprised there's communication problems, unmet emotional needs, sexual illness, undisclosed information, financial difficulties and unmet goals. https://media0.giphy.com/media/26BRKYWmgrYEKxGgw/giphy.gif
ReplyDeleteor to avoid women and sublimate one's sexual desires in learning with a male chavrusa...
ReplyDeletebut the probemwith the above analysis is, - MO groups, who for example have mixed youth groups, have co-ed university or even high schools, and TVs, also have a divorce problem, and I would aver it is higher than in the separatist Hareidi groups.
ReplyDeleteBut chilonim in Israel, and reform/conservatives in Chu'L, also have a higher divorce rate, and I would say it is probably higher than the MO.
And the general population, who do not forbid any boy/girl activities - seem to have the highest divorce rates of all....
So how do you explain that?
For a totally different reason.
ReplyDeleteSee, the Chareidi system has the potential to work really well. You filter so that only compatible children meet - religious, social, philosophical compatibility. The problem is what comes after.
Just like so many Chareidi are susceptible to OTD tactics because, for all their learning, no one ever taught them how to have a personal connection to God and the motivation to be a good Jew because of that connection and love, no one ever taught them that marriage is a partnership. The couple is creating a business and the children are the merchandise. Teaching them to run a business successfully and how to handle business partnerships would be very important.
The MO and Reformative problem is that couples don't fall in love, they fall in lust. Lust wears off after a while. You married the girl because you liked how she looked, you liked how she made you laugh, you liked you felt during sex. You, You, You. And when she no longer does anything for You, you dump her.
Wow
ReplyDeleteChareidi does not really describe psychology or personality, even though some rabbis do want to mass produce robots who follow the Chareidi programme.
ReplyDeleteMO is also not specific enough - is it the Kipa sruga yeshiva/kollel who live in the communities in Yehuda /Shomron? Or the dati lite in tel aviv , and New York?
I saw the new James Bond movie last week, in the cinema - it was mainly action, no sex, although the women were not dressed totally tzniusdik.
MO couples - some don't fall in love or lust, and some think it is a good shidduch and they are at par in their observance - yet they may still end up in a divorce courts. I know this form my friends, even sephardi who are marrying "out" either the wrong type of sephardi or ashkenazi, and are not prepared for the cultural differences. I would say that it is still lower in MO than in nominally ortho but not quite shomer mitzvot.
As a rule of thumb, the stricter kashrut one keeps, the less chance of divorce - if you eat treif, you are just like the general population in divorce stats, - if you keep kashrus but not strict or machmir, there is still a chance of divorce, and if you keep badatz, there is a lower level but it is no gurantee you won't be divorced.
Sorry, that is a bit tongue in cheek -
perhaps those who keep Badatz and other chumras have a higher tolerance of not having everything their own way - and the halachic hedonist, who wants everythig in this world, as long as it can reasonably be shown to be permitted, might have ego issues. But then that is what you mean by saying "you, you, you".
I have met very frum , very great people, who had issues at home - they even made jokes about it, but did not get divorced. But visiting them, the "divorce" was there , except they still lived in the same house.
Wow!
ReplyDeleteAnd who does it better in your humble opinion - the secular Jew? MO or maybe the Kibbutznick?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/meet-catch-and-keep/202101/is-living-together-marriage-associated-divorce
ReplyDeleteDespite changing norms and perceptions, premarital cohabitation still appears to be a risk factor for divorce (Rosenfeld & Roesler, 2019). This does not mean that every couple that lives together prior to marriage later divorces; nor does it suggest that not living together first guarantees stability. It simply looks at the group data at large and shows a trend between living together prior to marriage and subsequent separations. Across all years examined in this study, the odds of divorce were 1.31 times higher for women who cohabitated prior to marriage.
here is another thing I've noticed -
ReplyDeleteseveral MO rabbis , in their old age speak about their wives, and that when they met, she was the most beautiful girl in town.
That is very romantic - and we are told that Sarah Imeinu was extremely beautiful, and presumbly Rachel Imeinu. Esther certainly was.
Hareidi rabbis - I never hear this kind of language from them. Perhaps they speak about shidduchim. Perhaps they speak about they married the daugther of a gadol or rosh yeshiva. I am not suggesting that it is couth or uncouth to speak in this manner. But there is a clear differnce in mentality , even between learned MO rabbis, and their hareidi coutnerparts. MO , the more modern, the more they think in a western secular manner.
Again, it is up to the individual to decide if that is a good or bad thing. it has certain strengths, as they are more able to communicate with those raised in a secular world. A criticism could be made fromt eh chareidi side, in that the pursuite of secular values is somehow foreign to Torah (although the Torah even gives us license to take an otherwise forbidden woman, if she is eshes yefat toar,in wartime).