Thursday, July 21, 2016

Criticizing Rabbi Levenstein is criticizing the Torah

Cross-Currents by Rabbi Avrohom Gordimer

Rabbi Yigal Levenstein, who heads the Bnei David academy in the Israeli town of Eli, made waves several days ago with some public remarks:
I said there are red lines and I am not willing to bring them up for discussion. I said: the Reform movement is not a Jewish movement. (The chief education officer) asked me ‘why?’ I said: ‘It’s a Christian movement. There were many branches that began in Judaism, then left Judaism and became other movements.’
And, regarding homosexuals, Rabbi Levenstein commented:
There’s a crazy movement of people who have lost sense of what’s normal in life. This group has whipped the entire country into a frenzy, they force their way into the IDF, and no one dares say anything. There are perverts giving lectures in [the officers’ training school] Bahad 1.
Rabbi Levenstein’s comments drew immediate condemnation from officials in the Israeli government and others in Israeli society, from IDF leaders, to liberal Orthodox rabbis, to the head of the Israeli Reform movement. On the other hand, hundreds of Israeli rabbis came out in support of Rabbi Levenstein, with some expressing occasional disagreement with his choice of words, yet nonetheless defending his basic ideas.

Now, an American institution has weighed in. Yeshivat Chovevei Torah just issued a statement entitled YCT Condems (sic) Rav Yigal Levenstein’s Hurtful and Divisive Remarks, which reads:

Yeshivat Chovevei Torah Rabbinical School joins the many rabbis, government officials, and institutions in Israel in rejecting the hurtful and unacceptable words of Rabbi Yigal Levenstein of the B’nai David Preparatory Seminary in Eli. In an act unbecoming of a leader preparing young Jewish men to serve in the IDF, Rabbi Levenstein lashed out both at the LGBT community, calling them perverted, and at the Reform community, which he called a Christian denomination.

From its inception, our Yeshiva has stood for inclusiveness, standing with the State of Israel and Jews everywhere to promote the unity of the Jewish people and the importance of learning from all Jews out of a deep sense of love for our fellow Jews and respect for our mutual covenantal (sic) relationship with God and Torah. Ahavat yisrael, the commandment to love our fellow Jew, does not come with qualifiers or limitations.

As Israel’s Minister of Education Naftali Bennett wrote, “Jewish law is not meant to be a divisive tool … One cannot denigrate an entire community and take shelter behind Jewish law.” On the contrary, Israel and the IDF have always been models for the difficult but critical task of unifying Jews of diverse backgrounds and origins, of advocating for respect for different religious beliefs and practices, and of treating people with different sexual orientations with the equality they deserve.

We are heartened by the overwhelming message coming from so many corners of the Jewish world that we will not allow narrow-minded partisans to drive us from our commitment to the Jewish people as an am echad.

It is interesting to read the public statements of Rav Yosef Dov Ha-Levi Soloveitchik zt”l of RIETS about the subjects for which Rabbi Levenstein is being castigated.

Concerning non-Orthodox houses of worship, in regard to their practice of mixed pews:

It would seem to me that our remembrance of history alone should keep us from imitating today the practice of primitive Christianity (which introduced mixed seating for worship – AG) almost 1900 years ago… In my opinion, Orthodoxy must mobilize all its forces and wage an indefatigable battle against the “Christianization” (I have no better word for it) of the synagogue – a practice which is being accomplished by people who have no sense of Halacha and no historical-philosophical concept of the nature of prayer; but they do have the arrogance to wreck principles and traditions which have become hallowed through blood and tears. (Community, Covenant and Commitment, pp. 134-135; The Sanctity of the Synagogue, B. Litvin)
And concerning homosexuality:
A philosophy of [homo]sexualism is being preached throughout the Western world, to such an extent that a certain rabbi came to me and said, “How can we defend ourselves against it?” I told him, take out a Chumash and read a pasuk. ואת זכר לא תשכב משכבי אשה. (“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman.” -Vayikra 18:22) We are on the defensive, you understand. Why? And the same is true of abortion and so forth. 
I can never predict what modern society will come up with. Everything is possible. The most abnormal, obnoxious, repellent ideas may be introduced in the form of legislation to Congress. And now, since it is modern to be liberal, it’s quite in vogue to be heretical, so any law can be adopted. The Supreme Court in America is the most unpredictable body. Did you see, did you read carefully, the decision about abortion? 
This is b’nei basar (“children of the flesh”). B’nei basar are oversensitive to beauty, to unredeemed beauty. We ourselves cherish beauty, but redeemed beauty. Unredeemed, vulgar, coarse people. And simply what the b’nei basar preach is non-interference on the part of ethics and morality. This man wants to enjoy life, that’s all. Because actually the pagan way of life rests upon the idea of egocentric hedonism. The latter was declared by the pagans to be morally desirable. In other words, free man is expected to reject any restrictive norm interfering with his hedonic freedom. The permissive society is the pagan society, which heads toward disaster. The permissive society consists of the b’nei basar, the children of the flesh, who are obedient to the flesh and its biological pressures. 
The main sin of pagan society consists in its exploiting nature for the sake of man’s enjoyment without the latter accepting responsibility for the very act he enjoyed. In a word, hedonic society, the Dor Ha-Mabul, drove itself and the environment to annihilation. That is exactly what happens to the Western part of the world, the so-called “democratic world” or the “free world”. 
What is the motto of modern man? ויראו בני האלהים. Modern man is very mighty… He is a wizard, as far as intellectual achievements are concerned… But the same wizard, a בני אלהים, is a fallen angel… He is tempted by vulgar beauty… ויקחו להם נשים – he surrendered. 
The man whose mathematic equations proved to be true 500 million light years from there surrendered to the בנות האדם, to vulgar beauty, to enjoyment. This is no way of life. This was the eser doros me’Adam v’ad Noach (ten generations from Adam to Noach) that were misgalgel (systematically declined) until they reached the bottom… (from 1974 public shiur in Boston, printed here on pp.91-94)
Should Rav Soloveitchik likewise be condemned? His words contain attitudes similar to those expressed by Rabbi Levenstein. Just asking.

Although I am quite removed from the scene, I cannot see myself making the public remarks articulated by Rabbi Levenstein, either using his phraseology or other, more delicate wording, due to public sensitivities and society’s hypercharged atmosphere, which usually render such remarks counterproductive on a pragmatic level. But the essence of Rabbi Levenstein’s remarks, even if expressed more artfully, cannot truly be condemned, and to read condemnation of the essence of his remarks is quite puzzling – no less than would be a condemnation of the Torah itself, in commanding “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” -Vayikra 18:22.

52 comments:

  1. 'I cannot see myself making the public remarks articulated by Rabbi Levenstein, either using his phraseology or other, more delicate wording, due to public sensitivities and society’s hypercharged atmosphere, which usually render such remarks counterproductive on a pragmatic level' - there is also the press which don't quote fully and out of context. R' Gordimer is giving answers to the converted , how about sharing some of his creativity in dealing with these issues with non-frum people

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  2. “It is interesting to read the public statements of Rav Yosef Dov Ha-Levi Soloveitchik zt”l of RIETS about the subjects for which Rabbi Levenstein is being castigated.

    Concerning non-Orthodox houses of worship, including Reform, in regard to their practice of mixed pews:

    "It would seem to me that our remembrance of history alone should keep us from imitating today the practice of primitive Christianity (which introduced mixed seating for worship) almost 1900 years ago… In my opinion, Orthodoxy must mobilize all its forces and wage an indefatigable battle against the “Christianization” (I have no better word for it) of the synagogue – a practice which is being accomplished by people who have no sense of Halacha and no historical-philosophical concept of the nature of prayer; but they do have the arrogance to wreck principles and traditions which have become hallowed through blood and tears." (Community, Covenant and Commitment, pp. 134-135; The Sanctity of the Synagogue, B. Litvin)

    And concerning homosexuality:

    "A philosophy of [homo]sexualism is being preached throughout the Western world, to such an extent that a certain rabbi came to me and said, “How can we defend ourselves against it?” I told him, take out a Chumash and read a pasuk. ואת זכר לא תשכב משכבי אשה. (“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman.” -Vayikra 18:22)

    Should Rav Soloveitchik likewise be condemned? His words contain similar attitudes to those expressed by Rabbi Levenstein.”

    Thank you, Rabbi Gordimer for bringing us these pearls of wisdom. Such a pleasure to read exact quotes from Rabbi Soloveitchik. I’m a YU graduate and a devotee and follower and reader of Rabbi Soloveitchik, even when I was at YU, 1963-1967.

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  3. I think he's not just preaching to those whose beliefs and ideologies are firm. He's clarifying that YCT is far removed from Rabbi Soloveichik, his views, and all that he held dear. This is relevant to many people who identify as M0, or people who are marginally frum, or even to some people who are not frum, but appreciate our heritage and our tradition.

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  4. Thanks, I still think that times are a lot different and we need to know how to express the Torah's uncompromising stance in an authentic and yet compassionate way - there was a comment on the cc site of a kid with gender problems who tried to commit suicide after hearing the Rav speak.

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  5. there is an article written by Rav Aharon Feldman

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  6. Rabbi Aranoff:

    I speak for myself, of course, but perhaps others on this blog as well. There's no need to cut and paste whole portions of the OP, especially when (as here) you had a simple comment of appreciation to make. Please consider adjusting your comment style to match current online etiquette, so that all who read here don't have to scroll through many paragraphs of duplicated material. Thanks ahead of time for your consideration.

    Daniel

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  7. I'll see your point and raise you: Rabbi Gordimer too often seems to scour current events so that he can react with disapproval. It's far harder to take the bull by the horns and become a proactive voice for positive change. It would be nice if he could do more of the latter and less of the former.

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  8. is it this letter https://guardyoureyes.com/resources/ssa/item/a-letter-by-reb-ahron-feldman-to-a-gay-baal-teshuva

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  9. It would be nice if he would also be Moshiach
    What he he does well - criticizing him because he should do more shows a lack of gratitude and appreciation

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  10. I agree - repeating material unnecessarily usually results in people skipping your comments entirely

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  11. Politically IncorrectJuly 21, 2016 at 10:08 PM

    Perhaps that contemporary society needs to be POLITICALLY CORRECT??? ...

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  12. It is difficult to make these public statements, and R' Yigal was at risk of losing his position in the IDF, and the outcry from Israeli secular society. His supporters are not Haredi, although some are Hardal - the haredi end of the Dati spectrum.

    In the time of the neviim, lehavdil, the neviim said things that were not always popular. Sometimes, even a Rav can say something not popular with other Rabbonim - but a yachid does not have to follow the daas of the majority.

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  13. I agree to disagree. I think there's something to be said for acknowledging the times we live in. Or, as someone else once said (approximately): Finding the קולא in life generally takes greater wisdom.

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  14. the issue here is not chumros and kulos - it is whether we acknowledge what the Torah says on this matter or shuffle our feet and pretend that homosexual behavior is permitted or at least tolerated

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  15. Politically IncorrectJuly 22, 2016 at 3:48 AM

    Is everything on this blog politically correct? Perhaps there are some 'meshugaim' who need to speak the truth...

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  16. I used it as an analogy: the easiest thing in the world is to say אסור on something. It takes more effort to find a way to be מתיר.

    The נמשל is NOT that we need to be מתיר עריות. Rather, it's finding a way to address the situation today, when so many Jews feel they are hopelessly SSA, but doing so in a way that builds bridges, rather than walls.

    Just because Rabbi G is a good writer, that doesn't mean that he needs to be be the resident pit bull for frumkeit. I have a problem with quoting Rav JS on this issue from many decades ago. The situation has only deteriorated further since JS made those comments. I see no useful purpose in further alienating these Jews with quotes from a different generation.

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  17. But you don't get it - it is not Rav Soloveitchik that turns them off - it is the Torah. There is an inevitable conflict between the two. Pretending it doesn't exists is the sin of hypocrisy.

    Your same argument is used by certain people as to why we don't talk about the adultery of Tamar and Adam which was produced through the perverse activities of the Kaminetskys and R Greenblatt. We aren't supposed to tell people who want to dump their slighly imperfect spouses who think that they can do better that they will be committing adultery and producing mamzerim. That is so primitive and insensitive. No we have to tell them that it is a machlokess haposkim and they have gedolim to rely on.

    Of course we also don't want to embarrass a boy who thinks he should have been a girl or a father who thinks his daughter is truly his beshert. So your advice is not to upset people by telling them that they can't be good Jews and do what they are doing - we will keep it a secret or lie for the saking of universal happiness.

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  18. Thanks for referring me to Rav Aaron Feldman's letter. I found it uncompromising as far as the act itself , but compassionate towards the person's struggle with his disability. I shared Rav Feldman's compassion with a highly respected ' avreich ' in the community and was taken aback by his response - what !! compassion for smutz, zevel , kanaim po'gim bo , homosexuality is pure yetzher , not something you are born with – Hashem would never have created a person with same sex attraction
    I was wondering if his response is representative of the chareidi community in Israel. ?
    I see Dr Sorotzkin talks about underlying psychological causes which can be treated ?
    Rabbi Feldman does not focus on the causes but he does not discount being born with a SSA tendency , his focus is on giving hope in dealing with these God given challenges
    I would appreciate any insights

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  19. Seee Rabbi Chaim Rapoport's artice http://www.hakirah.org/Vol13Rapoport.pdf

    as well as that by Rabbi Norman Lamm http://www.ezrabessaroth.net/leadership/rabbi-s-blog/entry/rabbi-lamm-s-1974-article-on-judaism-and-homosexuality

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  20. Re the response you got:

    I think it's complicated. Depends on circumstances. Depends on context.

    If my friend confides in me: "I'm crazy about my neighbor's wife. It's gotten to the point where I stay away from my own house till late at night to avoid inadvertently seeing or speaking to her. I'm even thinking of selling my house and moving."

    My response: "I feel for you, brother. Whatever I can do to help -- I have a friend who is a real estate agent and can get you a good price on your house. May Hashem have mercy."

    But if another friend overhears the conversation, and proceeds to confide in me: "I'm crazy about my neighbor's wife. It's the same neighbor. She's finalizing her divorce from her husband next week. We were going to wait till she formally received a Get, but, you know, we just figured it's not like she's living with him anymore...so...."

    Then my response might be a lot shorter: "Pig!"

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  21. Maybe you don't get it, RDE. Maybe people with SSA want to follow the Torah. Maybe they don't know what to do with their situation.

    You've jumped to the conclusion that they are rebelling against the Torah. I wasn't taking issue with the point of RJS, only with the fact that the approach towards these Jews may be outdated.

    If you can't acknowledge the complexities here, I am speechless. The rest of your response has nothing to do with what I've said. Not the Friedman issue, not the incest allusion, and not some illusory goal of universal happiness. I said none of those.

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  22. I don't recall saying that people with SSA are rebelling against the Torah - please show me where I said such a thing. You obviously didn't bother reading the article by Rabbi Rapoport that for which I posted the link.

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  23. When a person wants to follow The Torah but he has difficulties with his yetzer hora, he humbly acknowledges that he is not abiding by the rules and seeks help if he feels he can find it. He doesn't brazenly announce that he is PROUD to be the way he is against The Torah. So I'm sure that there are many such people with SSA who are trying to be better and struggling, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about acknowledging the Torah truth and denouncing anyone who is seeking to feel proud and comfortable and correct to chas veshalom violate The Torah.

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  24. Explain what you mean by being "the way he is" is against the Torah. The Torah has absolutely nothing to say about who one may or may not be attracted to.

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  25. Chisuri mechasra vehachi katani.

    He doesn't brazenly announce that he is PROUD to be behaving the way he is, against The Torah.

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  26. But the marchers are not necessarily announcing how they behave, they are announcing how they are. The way they are is not against the Torah. That is the essential difference.

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  27. I believe the important distinction you're making is lost on Harry, RDE, and others.

    I'm not certain why, but many are unable to summon any compassion for those struggling with this issue. They are written off as 'turned off' by the Torah, or in open rebellion against G-d, when that may not be the case at all.

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  28. If the way they are is something which gives them a difficult nisoyon to chas veshalom deviate from The Torah, then the way they are is a big shameful chisaron and nothing to be proud of. It's like if someone has nebach a nature to be a sadist and has a desire to murder innocent children in cold blood, what would you think about marching proudly about that?

    We are not perfect - none of us. We all have nisyonos. But the evil inclination which is built into our nature and presents itself within us as flaws in our character, is something that we carry around with shame and not with pride. It's something we wish we could correct and we try to correct as best as we can.

    So the proud gay march is an open chutzpa and merida against The Torah. Am I making myself clear enough?

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  29. If the way they are is something which gives them a difficult nisoyon to chas veshalom deviate from The Torah, then the way they are is a big shameful chisaron and nothing to be proud of. It's like if someone has nebach a nature to be a sadist and has a desire to murder innocent children in cold blood, what would you think about marching proudly about that?

    We are not perfect - none of us. We all have nisyonos. But the evil inclination which is built into our nature and presents itself within us as flaws in our character, is something that we carry around with shame and not with pride. It's something we wish we could correct and we try to correct as best as we can.

    So the proud gay or lgbt march is an open chutzpa and merida against The Torah. Am I making myself clear enough?

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  30. What does compassion have to do with someone unnecessarily and brazenly saying that he is attracted to sin? He should keep his attraction to sin private, and share it only with those who can help him or understand him.

    The brazen marching and playing shalom aleichem at the Celebrate Israel parade does not call for compassion. The guy, or gal, who desires your wife does not deserve compassion when s/he hangs around outside your house and carries huge signs announcing that s/he feels attracted to your wife, while wearing a t-shirt saying the same, while playing having loud, Jewish music playing from his speakers. He or she should find some other way to deal with his attraction to your wife.

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  31. you really are not paying attention to the issue. It is possible to have compassion for someone struggling to avoid sinning. It is possible to have compassion for someone who is a attracted to the same sex or to children or to someone's wife - but is desperately trying not to

    What we are facing is a different case. Of an order to declare something clearly against the Torah to be viewed as being a totally valid alternative in the name of love, equality and secular values. In short we are being told that the words of the Torah are not legitimate in this area because it goes against the values of the army or secular society. We are told that we must be proud of homosexuals as we are of heterosexuals

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  32. I believe you are conflating two separate problems:

    1) There are members of Judaism that suffer from SSA.

    2) There are elements of society at large that engage in the type of 'in your face' behaviors you describe.

    Nature abhors a vacuum. When #1 have nowhere to turn, they land in the #2 camp. And then we can (again) condemn them once more.

    Maybe if we had a better response to #1, we'd have less participants in # 2.

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  33. We are not really disagreeing on the problem as you've described it. We have a 'Jewish' state that is subject to societal norms. That indeed is a problem, and it's yet another indication of our גלות and גלות השכינה.

    Yet, I wonder how you read Rabbi G's words: "...public sensitivities and society's hypercharged atmosphere...usually render such remarks counterproductive on a pragmatic level."

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  34. Rabbi Rapoport's article was interesting. His critique of R' Kaminetzky is to the point. However, seeking alternative therapeutic approaches should be encouraged even if it were to only work on a small percentage and even if it is not perfect.
    Yes, the Torah's prohibition of homosexuality applies whether a person can cure himself from this desire or not.
    However, taking the current scientific dogma as gospel could be no less dangerous. Telling a person that there is just no way out and he should resort to a life without even trying work towards curing himself, could be devastatingly wrong.
    Over the course of generations of Klal Yisroel there might have been many individuals who had those desires and over came them to the extent that they have built healthy homes and families without deviating. No one knew about it and no one knows about it and till the end of days no one will know about it.
    Weather a homosexual person is ready to try and build a healthy family or not is something that he may have to determine for himself.
    The notion that a person's life is predetermined by his genes and natural tendencies and he is no more then an animal is what is behind the main stream of psychology today. It is counter to the way of the Torah.
    Other approaches should be continuously and seriously looked into.

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  35. Where do you think is the appropriate for #1 to turn? And what should they be seeking when they turn there? After we answer those 2 questions we will consider whether or not this is available. What do you, DanielNY1, think are the correct answers to my questions?

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  36. Politically IncorrectJuly 25, 2016 at 6:11 AM

    Are there scientific articles that validate the claim that such tendencies are natural? Or articles opposing such 'findings'?

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  37. They are marching in support of the gay way of life. Don't be naive.

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  38. I don't know. My sense, however, is that the general public has no patience for this issue, and that probably causes #1s to go deeper into hiding. Perhaps someone in that category can elucidate; I cannot.

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  39. I am sure you are correct with regard to many, even most, of them, although I am not sure what you mean by "way of life"). I am not sure that you are correct concerning all of them.

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  40. You say "seeking alternative therapeutic approaches should be encouraged even if it were to only work on a small percentage and even if it is not perfect."
    That would be so only if in the cases that it does not work, it does no harm. Although I am not expert in the field, from what I have read, that is not the case concerning reparative therapy.

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  41. “Criticizing Rabbi Levenstein is criticizing the Torah”

    “And, regarding homosexuals, Rabbi Levenstein commented: There’s a crazy movement of people who have lost sense of what’s normal in life. This group has whipped the entire country into a frenzy, they force their way into the IDF, and no one dares say anything. There are perverts giving lectures in [the officers’ training school] Bahad”

    I agree. “Do not speak to a dullard, For he will disdain your sensible words.” (Proverbs 23:9).

    The Malbim says (Wengrov pp.237-238) “Since כסיל (a fool) is a person who knows the truth of the laws of moral wisdom, yet will not let it interfere with his pleasures, there is no point in attempting to teach him any moral wisdom.”

    My theory. Tamar knows the truth, but will not let it interfere with her desires. Tamar pleaded with her family, friends, lawyers, and rabbis to allow her to live with her boyfriend. I read of a rabbi who announced that he’s a long-time homosexual and is divorcing his wife of 20 years. http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/coming-out-of-the-happily-married-closet/

    This rabbi knows the truth that homo-sexualism is a perversion, but he will not let it interfere with his desires!

    Why are Greenblatt-Kamenistky supporting beating Aaron? Why are they intervening against Aaron? In name of what? To the extent of approving Aaron’s wife to live with her boyfriend, with Aaron alive and well and refusing to divorce her!!! To the extent of approving a garbage heter! To the extent of shame from all over the world! Have Greenblatt-Kamenistky gone completely crazy?

    Bravo to Rabbi Levenstein for protesting. Bravo to Rabbi Eidensohn for protesting.

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  42. Should the general public have patience for this? Do you really think it would be good for the general public to be completely desensitized to to the abomination of abominations? You have given these people's problem so much validity that you are putting the normal part of society on the defensive. This is basically a way of crushing the truth. In our days it is considered by the liberal secular society to be wrong to be against homosexual behavior and to be wrong to even express that sentiment. That is a simple crushing of the truth which promotes these abominations more and more. You speak as though it's a bad thing that this group feels like going into hiding, and I don't agree with that. Why should people not feel shame about having such serious character flaws, כבושת גנב כי ימצא. After all these acts are wrong and shameful aren't they? So why are we against shame when it is true and appropriate? Rashi says on the pasuk
    בעבור תהיה יראת ד' על פניכם - זו הבושה

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  43. Do you have more specifics?

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  44. Yes to the first question. Check it out in Rapoport's article above. From what I have heard this is the main stream opinion in the academic world today.

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  45. No. If people are on the 'defensive', that is from group #2. I am concerned about the #1s. They are Jews, and they deserve our compassion and our patience.

    From the little I've read, I don't think you need to be preaching that they should be ashamed; I believe they have plenty of that already.

    I have trouble understanding why this issue raises people's ire to the extent it does. "Abomination of abominations"? You're dealing with a group of Jews who are probably classified as מומר לתיאבון. If put in those terms, why the vociferous attacks?

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  46. You can read up on the JONAH case, for starters.

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  47. The vast majority.
    I don't think I need to detail what the gay "way of life" entails. I'm sure you can figure it out.

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  48. Let's remind ourselves of the issue being discussed here. This is what what posted here:

    "And, regarding homosexuals, Rabbi Levenstein commented:
    There’s a crazy movement of people who have lost sense of what’s normal in life. This group has whipped the entire country into a frenzy, they force their way into the IDF, and no one dares say anything. There are perverts giving lectures in [the officers’ training school] Bahad 1." etc.

    And he was criticized for making these statements.

    He is discussing a "Movement", "A group who has whipped the entire country into a frenzy", "Perverts giving lectures"

    These are not bashful acts of people who are ashamed. These are brazen acts of chutzpa. The people who are ashamed aren't vocal about it and don't come out of the closet. We never get to know about them. But those who we know about because they declare their "position", those are rebels against The Torah.

    I sincerely believe that if anyone would go and consult with just about any rov and confide in him saying shamefully and sincerely "I have this problem and I don't know what to do....." I believe the rov would respond with compassion. I would and so would most frum people I know.

    But if they are looking for someone to turn to who will give them validity to act and promote homosexuality and feel comfortable about it, then they will not be met with compassion, and rightfully so.

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  49. http://drsorotzkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/eng-ssa.pdf - I know wiki is not the last word but I was wondering why reparative therapy has such a bad name - pseudo science and is banned in many states. if I recall there was a blog post here - patients suing because of this treatment. Leaving ethical - moral -religious reasons aside would not a homo relationship be a better and easier solution to the problem if it is biologically based and not psychological. The NARTH site says that the psychological causes are being ignored - only biological . Also Could it be that even though for some the future looks black but you are judged not by achievement but by effort

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  50. Brilliant article!!! Excellent point!

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    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete

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