ROFL ! And what does he think all those salvos in the first wave of attack from R' Sternbuch and the allies of world Poskim have been? This is absurd, if not toit meshuga C'V'. This is what you call Chutzpah. The next thing you know, he will ask to have him sign the Heter AS IS, no questions asked.
At this point, can anyone still find a real justification for RSK Senior? If he did not want anyone to protest the heter, then he should have done all in his power to separate the the adulterers.
Can we see a copy of this letter. I must see the date. It sounds like the support Khaddafi sent a caravan of Camels Cheil Jemalim through the Desert against Israel in the six day war. It is called Etrogim after Sukkot. Haterem teida ki ovdo kol haklafim, vekolu kol hakitsin? Ayyy... Sholom Sholom, v'ein Sholom. It's another trick pulled from his hat. He ain't foolin no one, but himself.
Brings to mind a famous comment made by another gentleman who got caught with his fingers in the jar " it depends what the meaning of is,is"( hint they called him slick Willie) the gist of the letter is no, it's not me nothing to do with me ,but I am firmly behind it , no I can't give you any facts , because I don't know the facts , but I am behind it and please be quiet about it. Rabbi Weiss is asking for a give-and-take just what rabbi K says is the proper way to deal with it, not through the Internet ,God forbid ,but he won't let that happen , he won't give them any facts whatsoever ,rather he weasels out of that by saying let's bring it to rabbi D.Feinstein who hasn't given the slightest indication that he has any interest in getting into anything remotely controversial like this, and has a history of ducking anything controversial . a betting man . and yes he did not give the Heter, it all boils down to " it depends what giving a Heter means " how sad .
This letter, yes, written Thursday December 10, 2015, mentions several times Rabbi Greenblatt with much praise. Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky also mentions that his rabbi is Rabbi Dovid Feinstein, the head of the poskim in America. Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky lectures us about the internet and social media. That means that everyone is reading this blog. Great. Did the Bedatz respond?
Regardless of what has happened until now, Reb Shmuel's suggestion that the case be presented to Reb Dovid Feinstein and that all parties agree to follow his ruling is probably the only way to get past the current impasse.
I heard from a reliable source that first the case proposed to go to read David and then when I was put to them again they refused r' shlomo miller called their bluff
Honestly, the authenticity of this letter seems somewhat suspicious to me. The stationary letterhead appears askew, as if the text were a bad cut and paste job. Besides what is the provenance of the letter? How did Daas Torah get a hold of a copy? Was the letter actually sent to Dayan Weiss? Did Dayan Weiss indeed receive it, or was it intercepted along the way. If Dayan Weiss did receive the letter does anyone know how the Dayan reacted to it? Why did it take a full month for the letter to be publicized?
If indeed authentic, this letter raises more questions than it answers. I understood it somewhat differently than Shragie states and the reply by Daas Torah implies. I don't believe that Reb Shmuel is genuinely suggesting that "the case be presented to Reb Dovid Feinstein and that all parties agree to follow his ruling". IMHO, a careful reading of the missive would render a more provocative interpretation. Reb Shmuel seems to be stating that the case is involves details that are complex in nature which have not been made public and also that the matter should only be discussed by those who are expert in Gittin, the chief of those being Rav Greenblatt who credentials are beyond reproach. Anyone decisor who contends with Rav Greenblatt ought not to go public on blogs or proclamations on broadsheets, but rather ought to direct his dissenting opinion to Reb Dovid Feinstein, the chief Hallachik decisor here in the United States and let him review the narrative and all the details. When he will impart of his great knowledge, as he rules so shall the matter stand.
To my understanding, this was not a sincere invitation to debate the case upon its merits before Rav Feinstein. Knowing full well that Reb Dovid steers away from any controversial subject, it is rather a declaration, if you will, that, "If you have any problems go talk to Reb Dovid Feinstein". This is a politic way of saying to Dayan Weiss, "Tell it to the Marines." Or to put it more crudely, saying, "Go blow," . It is the Rabbinic equivalent of flipping someone the bird or suggesting that they perform a biological impossibility.
By the way, Daas Torah, how about what we were informed on December 21, 2015: "Tamar Epstein's Heter: The battle against the Heter has been won according to unconfirmed reports." How's that workin' out for ya? I shouldn't hold my breath, huh?
But what I find most appalling is the deafening silence of the "A Team" leaders. Where are the protest posters signed by the leading American Roshay Yeshiva such as Rav Shnaidman from Scranton, Rav Chaim Dov Keller from Telshe Chicago, Rabbis Kotler & Company from Lakewood, the Matisdorfer Ruv from Boro Park, Rav Yosef Rosenblum from Shaaray Yoisher? Why haven't we heard from the American Moetzes, meaning the Noviminsker Rebbe and the Vyelipoler Rebbe?
What about the Chasidishe Rebbes who each command thousands of foot soldiers? This includes both Satmar Rebbes, both Vizhnitzer Rebbes, both Bobover Rebbes, both Pupa Rebbes, the Skverer Rebbe, the Sekulener Rebbe and the four or five Spinka Rebbes?. Don't they know "az ess iz ois velt"?
True, we did hear from quite a few worthy Rabbis who raised their voices, but not enough. The outcry ought to have been so vociferous, so unanimous and so emotive, that the very foundations of the earth would tremble.
על זאת אני בוכיה , that the leading force crying out against the awful 'חילול הד are the intrepid Eidensohn brothers. That no other "frum" blogs or sites would venture to deal with the issue is a true disgrace, for even Rabbis suffer from the herd mentality. If with the Help of Hashem, the anti-heter position becomes normative, oh yes, the Rabbis will come out of the woodwork in droves to join in what will then be called a מלחמת מצוה .
Who knows if that won't be too late to save Yiddiskeit.
The eidah chareidis response to Kaminetsky and Greenblatt was , ur wrong wrong wrong, and how dare u delve in such matters As far as reb Duvid feinstein , who gives a dam as to what he says
Because they knew Rav Dovid would never have approved what they wanted. Why did they choose Rabbi Greenblatt who is over 1,000 miles from Philadelphia? Because they knew they could bamboozle him into performing the adulterous "marriage".
It's laughable. Rav Nota all of a sudden is elevated to the highest authority in the land. All because he was naive enough to take the bait Rav Shalom threw out. I guess if someone else had agreed to be mattir her first, he would have been the new grand poobah.
Not that Rav Nota isn't a choshuva Talmud chochim. He is. But he was never one of the top poskim in America.
If they goofed by not going to RDF in the first place doesn't mean they need to freeze and not go now either. Hopefully RSM will cooperate with them going to RDF now, though before he indicated that he wouldn't.
Are you by chance my dear nephew, Shragie Aranoff?
I quote:
“If a case is too baffling for you to decide, be it a controversy over homicide, civil law, or assault—matters of dispute in your courts—you shall promptly repair to the place that the Lord your God will have chosen, and appear before the levitical priests, or the magistrate in charge at the time, and present your problem. When they have announced to you the verdict in the case, you shall carry out the verdict that is announced to you from that place that the Lord chose, observing scrupulously all their instructions to you. You shall act in accordance with the instructions given you and the ruling handed down to you; you must not deviate from the verdict that they announce to you either to the right or to the left. Should a man act presumptuously and disregard the priest charged with serving there the Lord your God, or the magistrate, that man shall die. Thus you will sweep out evil from Israel: all the people will hear and be afraid and will not act presumptuously again” (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).
I've heard a rumor that they've already been to R' Dovid Feinstein and he said she needs a get, but I don't know the source of the rumor and have no idea whether it's true.
He took R Sholom's bait? That's if we want to exonerate him and RSK Sr. somewhat and put the blame on R Sholom, as has been consistently done here, although I don't know why.....
Knowing the characters at play,shalom is the shrewdest and of the least scruples and even less scholarship. That might might explain why people tend to give him more Blame
This rumor is highly incomplete. R' Dovid must have commented they must depart immediately, she needs a Get from whom, and in which order. BTW, RSKjr has been to R' Dovid about this Heter long time back, where R' Dovid replied, I wouldn't do it. If RKS already did it anyway, why would he listen this time around?
ROFL ! And what does he think all those salvos in the first wave of attack from R' Sternbuch and the allies of world Poskim have been? This is absurd, if not toit meshuga C'V'. This is what you call Chutzpah. The next thing you know, he will ask to have him sign the Heter AS IS, no questions asked.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, can anyone still find a real justification for RSK Senior? If he did not want anyone to protest the heter, then he should have done all in his power to separate the the adulterers.
ReplyDeleteI'm not seeing a letter...
ReplyDeleteAm I missing something?
Letter? I don't see anything posted
ReplyDeleteCan we see a copy of this letter. I must see the date. It sounds like the support Khaddafi sent a caravan of Camels Cheil Jemalim through the Desert against Israel in the six day war. It is called Etrogim after Sukkot. Haterem teida ki ovdo kol haklafim, vekolu kol hakitsin? Ayyy... Sholom Sholom, v'ein Sholom. It's another trick pulled from his hat. He ain't foolin no one, but himself.
ReplyDeleteI don't see any copy of a letter. Am I the only one?
ReplyDeleteCantor Harry Rabinowitz sings A Brivele Der Mamen [A Letter to Mommy]"
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XdnHEw_oiw
I cannot see the letter. Is it posted?
ReplyDeleteWhere is the letter?
ReplyDeleteThursday parshat vaYetzei
ReplyDeleteBrings to mind a famous comment made by another gentleman who got caught with his fingers in the jar " it depends what the meaning of is,is"( hint they called him slick Willie) the gist of the letter is no, it's not me nothing to do with me ,but I am firmly behind it , no I can't give you any facts , because I don't know the facts , but I am behind it and please be quiet about it. Rabbi Weiss is asking for a give-and-take just what rabbi K says is the proper way to deal with it, not through the Internet ,God forbid ,but he won't let that happen , he won't give them any facts whatsoever ,rather he weasels out of that by saying let's bring it to rabbi D.Feinstein who hasn't given the slightest indication that he has any interest in getting into anything remotely controversial like this, and has a history of ducking anything controversial . a betting man .
ReplyDeleteand yes he did not give the Heter, it all boils down to " it depends what giving a Heter means " how sad .
This letter, yes, written Thursday December 10, 2015,
ReplyDeletementions several times Rabbi Greenblatt with much praise. Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky also mentions that
his rabbi is Rabbi Dovid Feinstein, the head of the poskim in America. Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky lectures us about the
internet and social media. That means
that everyone is reading this blog.
Great. Did the Bedatz respond?
Can this please be typed?
ReplyDeletePlease could somebody type up this letter?
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what has happened until now, Reb Shmuel's suggestion that the case be presented to Reb Dovid Feinstein and that all parties agree to follow his ruling is probably the only way to get past the current impasse.
ReplyDeleteSo why didn't they go to Rav Dovid in the first place and get his approval?
ReplyDeleteReb Dovid will never approve , he will lose All his rabbinical standing if he does.
ReplyDeleteand only serve to inflame the crisis even more.!.
Doubling down ...
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that R Shmuel's letter to Rav Weiss is similar to that 'brivele'?
ReplyDeleteHAha!
ReplyDeleteI heard from a reliable source that first the case proposed to go to read David and then when I was put to them again they refused r' shlomo miller called their bluff
ReplyDeleteHonestly, the authenticity of this letter seems somewhat suspicious to me. The stationary letterhead appears askew, as if the text were a bad cut and paste job. Besides what is the provenance of the letter? How did Daas Torah get a hold of a copy? Was the letter actually sent to Dayan Weiss? Did Dayan Weiss indeed receive it, or was it intercepted along the way. If Dayan Weiss did receive the letter does anyone know how the Dayan reacted to it? Why did it take a full month for the letter to be publicized?
ReplyDeleteIf indeed authentic, this letter raises more questions than it answers. I understood it somewhat differently than Shragie states and the reply by Daas Torah implies. I don't believe that Reb Shmuel is genuinely suggesting that "the case be presented to Reb Dovid Feinstein and that all parties agree to follow his ruling". IMHO, a careful reading of the missive would render a more provocative interpretation. Reb Shmuel seems to be stating that the case is involves details that are complex in nature which have not been made public and also that the matter should only be discussed by those who are expert in Gittin, the chief of those being Rav Greenblatt who credentials are beyond reproach. Anyone decisor who contends with Rav Greenblatt ought not to go public on blogs or proclamations on broadsheets, but rather ought to direct his dissenting opinion to Reb Dovid Feinstein, the chief Hallachik decisor here in the United States and let him review the narrative and all the details. When he will impart of his great knowledge, as he rules so shall the matter stand.
To my understanding, this was not a sincere invitation to debate the case upon its merits before Rav Feinstein. Knowing full well that Reb Dovid steers away from any controversial subject, it is rather a declaration, if you will, that, "If you have any problems go talk to Reb Dovid Feinstein". This is a politic way of saying to Dayan Weiss, "Tell it to the Marines." Or to put it more crudely, saying, "Go blow," . It is the Rabbinic equivalent of flipping someone the bird or suggesting that they perform a biological impossibility.
By the way, Daas Torah, how about what we were informed on December 21, 2015: "Tamar Epstein's Heter: The battle against the Heter has been won according to unconfirmed reports." How's that workin' out for ya? I shouldn't hold my breath, huh?
But what I find most appalling is the deafening silence of the "A Team" leaders. Where are the protest posters signed by the leading American Roshay Yeshiva such as Rav Shnaidman from Scranton, Rav Chaim Dov Keller from Telshe Chicago, Rabbis Kotler & Company from Lakewood, the Matisdorfer Ruv from Boro Park, Rav Yosef Rosenblum from Shaaray Yoisher? Why haven't we heard from the American Moetzes, meaning the Noviminsker Rebbe and the Vyelipoler Rebbe?
What about the Chasidishe Rebbes who each command thousands of foot soldiers? This includes both Satmar Rebbes, both Vizhnitzer Rebbes, both Bobover Rebbes, both Pupa Rebbes, the Skverer Rebbe, the Sekulener Rebbe and the four or five Spinka Rebbes?. Don't they know "az ess iz ois velt"?
True, we did hear from quite a few worthy Rabbis who raised their voices, but not enough. The outcry ought to have been so vociferous, so unanimous and so emotive, that the very foundations of the earth would tremble.
על זאת אני בוכיה , that the leading force crying out against the awful 'חילול הד are the intrepid Eidensohn brothers. That no other "frum" blogs or sites would venture to deal with the issue is a true disgrace, for even Rabbis suffer from the herd mentality. If with the Help of Hashem, the anti-heter position becomes normative, oh yes, the Rabbis will come out of the woodwork in droves to join in what will then be called a מלחמת מצוה .
Who knows if that won't be too late to save Yiddiskeit.
The eidah chareidis response to Kaminetsky and Greenblatt was , ur wrong wrong wrong, and how dare u delve in such matters
ReplyDeleteAs far as reb Duvid feinstein , who gives a dam as to what he says
Who's "them" and "they"?
ReplyDeleteBecause they knew Rav Dovid would never have approved what they wanted. Why did they choose Rabbi Greenblatt who is over 1,000 miles from Philadelphia? Because they knew they could bamboozle him into performing the adulterous "marriage".
ReplyDeleteIt's laughable. Rav Nota all of a sudden is elevated to the highest authority in the land. All because he was naive enough to take the bait Rav Shalom threw out. I guess if someone else had agreed to be mattir her first, he would have been the new grand poobah.
ReplyDeleteNot that Rav Nota isn't a choshuva Talmud chochim. He is. But he was never one of the top poskim in America.
If they goofed by not going to RDF in the first place doesn't mean they need to freeze and not go now either. Hopefully RSM will cooperate with them going to RDF now, though before he indicated that he wouldn't.
ReplyDeleteAre you by chance my dear nephew, Shragie Aranoff?
ReplyDeleteI quote:
“If a case is too baffling for you to decide, be it a
controversy over homicide, civil law, or assault—matters of dispute in your
courts—you shall promptly repair to the place that the Lord your God will have
chosen, and appear before the levitical priests, or the magistrate in charge at
the time, and present your problem. When they have announced to you the verdict
in the case, you shall carry out the verdict that is announced to you from that
place that the Lord chose, observing scrupulously all their instructions to
you. You shall act in accordance with the instructions given you and the ruling
handed down to you; you must not deviate from the verdict that they announce to
you either to the right or to the left. Should a man act presumptuously and
disregard the priest charged with serving there the Lord your God, or the magistrate,
that man shall die. Thus you will sweep out evil from Israel: all the people
will hear and be afraid and will not act presumptuously again” (Deuteronomy
17:8-13).
I've heard a rumor that they've already been to R' Dovid Feinstein and he said she needs a get, but I don't know the source of the rumor and have no idea whether it's true.
ReplyDeleteI also heard that Rav Dovid's resolution was to get AF to quietly give her a get...
ReplyDeleteThats somevpretty big news. I would like to know why that isn't public news yet?
ReplyDeleteI heard the opposite, that R miller declined to meet with RDF.
ReplyDeleteAm I missing something? Didn't R' Dovid tell directly to RSKjr upon his visit, " I would have not done such thing "! R' Dovid has already spoken.
ReplyDeleteHe took R Sholom's bait? That's if we want to exonerate him and RSK Sr. somewhat and put the blame on R Sholom, as has been consistently done here, although I don't know why.....
ReplyDeleteYes, same report I heard.
ReplyDeleteIs this not a public forum?
ReplyDeleteHas that been confirmed? Eidus, a number to verify if RDF said that
ReplyDeleteApparently, you are unclear regarding the meaning of "rumor." Perhaps this young lady can help you understand:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_6BBAVfzqM
Yes, a confirmed rumor. ...
ReplyDeleteYes in the beginning he refused but then he decided to call their bluff so I heard
ReplyDeleteWas not a goof this was a calculated decision they made they didn't like what they were going to hear
ReplyDeleteSo "call their bluff" , you mean that he actually met with Reb Dovid? ??? Then what happened?
ReplyDeleteKnow what offer to go and the k's refused!!!
ReplyDeleteNo, he offered to go and rabbis K refused!!!
ReplyDeleteRabbi Eidenson, don't you modify the comments before posting them? How did this 'pruster' thing make it's way here?
ReplyDeleteKnowing the characters at play,shalom is the shrewdest and of the least scruples and even less scholarship. That might might explain why people tend to give him more Blame
ReplyDeleteno I generally do not modify comments
ReplyDeleteI agree I flagged it.
ReplyDeleteThis rumor is highly incomplete. R' Dovid must have commented they must depart immediately, she needs a Get from whom, and in which order. BTW, RSKjr has been to R' Dovid about this Heter long time back, where R' Dovid replied, I wouldn't do it. If RKS already did it anyway, why would he listen this time around?
ReplyDeleteNo such thing. A Get needs "KOLE", publicity by Halacha so that people should know their actual status.
ReplyDeleteif he said that - did r' David call Aharon and ask him?
ReplyDeletedid they BAMBOOZLE R' Greenblatt or did they try to Bamboozle G-D.
ReplyDeletePlease get rid of this, because is a michshol and you have sort of an al tashken.
ReplyDeleteyou are correct - I removed it
ReplyDeletethanks
Then if so, when did Eidah HaChareidis letter (which has no date) come out, before or after?
ReplyDeleteI believe the Eida letter came out the day before this letter was written. It didn't change the minds of the Eidah
ReplyDeleteIf he says left = right and right = left, they have to listen to him.
ReplyDeleteIf they don't accept this, they are no longer part of Hareidi Daas Toirah