Monday, December 26, 2022

Living outside of Israel is considered idolatry

 Drashos Haran (04) That sin which is cause for apprehension on the Blessed One's part as potentially resulting in the destruction of the Jews is idol worship, to which the sin of the golden calf was similar in character. For the other transgressions do not arouse the Blessed One's wrath to such a great extent; idol worship is to be much more feared in this regard. And there is more reason for apprehension of this sin in the desert than in the land of Israel. For the Jews knew that the other lands were under the ordinance of stars and constellations, as our sages state (Kethuboth 110b): "All who live in the land of Israel, it is as if they have a G-d; all who live outside the land of Israel, it is as if they do not have a G-d." This is because the other, gentile lands are under the ordinance of heavenly plenipotentiaries, an ordinance which cannot be changed except through miraculous, Heavenly intervention (this being the intent of "for he will not forgive your sins"). Therefore, if one lives outside the land of Israel, because he is under the ordinance of a star or of a constellation, his prayer is not so readily accepted as it would be if he lived in the land of Israel, which is not under the dominion of a chief, an officer, or a ruler, but of the Blessed One Himself,

Kesubos (110b) One should always live in the Land of Israel, even in a town most of whose inhabitants are idolaters, but let no one live outside the Land, even in a town most of whose inhabitants are Israelites; for whoever lives in the Land of Israel may be considered to have a God, but whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who has no Godץ Has he, then, who does not live in the Land, no God?56 But [this is what the text intended] to tell you, that whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who worships idols.

Rambam (Melachim 5:12) At all times, a person should dwell in Eretz Yisrael even in a city whose population is primarily gentile, rather than dwell in the Diaspora, even in a city whose population is primarily Jewish. This applies because whoever leaves Eretz Yisrael for the Diaspora is considered as if he worships idols as I Samuel 26:19 states 'They have driven me out today from dwelling in the heritage of God, saying 'Go, serve other gods.

Ramban (Bereishis 24:03) THE G-D OF THE HEAVEN, AND THE G-D OF THE LAND. The Holy One, blessed be He, is called the G-d of the Land of Israel, as it is written, They know not the manner of the G-d of the land. and it is further written, And they spoke of the G-d of Jerusalem, as of the gods of the people of the earth. So also the Rabbis have said:. “He who lives outside the land of Israel is as if he had no G-d, as it said, For they have driven me out this day that I should not cleave unto the inheritance of the Eternal, saying, Go, serve other gods

25 comments:

  1. Thus the extreme claims equating Zionism to idolatry are sheker.
    Refuted by these sources. Even the not yet frum are required to live in Israel.

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  2. Does that mean you too should be living in Israel?

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  3. It does. Yes

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  4. People get claims mixed up.
    When you define Zionism as Jews living in Israel under Jewish sovereignty then you get into problems with the fanatics. But even the fanatics don't have a problem with Jews living in Israel as long as it's under Arab persecution

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  5. Which means that there would be a few thousand persecuted Jews in Palestine, under Iranian Khomeinism.

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  6. The Netziv opposed heter mechira because of the severe aveira of lo techanem.
    So land acquired by yidden, whether purchase, political, or by defensive or counter attack, is subject to lo techanem.
    I might even argue that land not liberated is also subject to lo techanem. Can't just throw parts of the Torah away like hareidim, Christians and reform do!

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  7. When do you plan on moving to Eretz Yisrael?

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  8. I'm in hospital now, depends on ....

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  9. There is confusion, the Gra told his followers to move to E'Y, as did the besht. But that part They downplay.
    They always talk about leaving because of secular decrees.
    On the one hand, they say that even if forced, it's assur to return to Israel, but the leaders of major movements who saw the horrors in Europe did exactly that, sometimes through zionist auspices.

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  10. refuah shleima
    So you are planning on coming when you get out

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  11. Yes, but they would all be "Torah true Jews", not like the rest of us

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  12. Refuah sheleimah b'karov

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  13. Except they are not. Ramban was, rambam was.

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  14. Why are speaking about others?
    Are YOU confused about the Mitzvah of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael?
    You should practice what you preach.

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  15. Ideology
    Most hareidi now are involved In the Knesset, so it's really game over

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  16. You are not addressing the sources
    I'm critical of the empty wagon website

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  17. the Gra held that the oaths only apply to building the Beis hamikdash in his time. it's in his commentary on the yerushalmi.

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  18. There's a reason Chareidi bookstores don't sell Rav Kasher's HaTekufah HaGedolah.

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  19. Hareidi response to 1967 was very weird, ...lets defer to satmar because we no longer have any ideas of our own....

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  20. Unfortunately, I've noticed a cannibalism in hareidi society. For example, one editor of a hareidi periodical is ready to mevazeh his own rebbe's rebbe, to make his own ponovezh rebbe look great. That's despite Rav shach saying he wasn't worthy of writing a hesped for Rav isser Zalman ztl.
    so the editors, gabbaim, opinion makers etc are falsifying Torah, for their own personal gain

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  21. What's that got to do with the price of cheese?

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  22. I'm addressing the fact that you're an armchair Zionist, who hypocritically lives in Chutz La'aretz.

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  23. Hijack alert..
    .

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  24. You are hijacking bringing irrelevant straw men like price of cheese as the ikkar.

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  25. the TTJ website, which attributes its arguments to great scholars actually opposes what the Rambam says in hilchot melachim. TTJ claims that only the vadai Moshiach can initiate geula activities eg State forming, wars, kibbutz galuyot etc. However, rambam says that a candidate can attempt these, and even fail in some, and still be considered righteous.
    so setting up a Medina is not restricted to Moshiach Ben David. A normal leader might achieve it but fail elsewhere, Eg in teshuva or kibbutz galuyot.

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