https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/317923
The Israeli Knesset yesterday passed the Foreign Agunot Law.
The initiator of the law, Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt, president of the Conference of European Rabbis and rabbi of Moscow, expressed his appreciation, saying: "Today brings good tidings for dozens of agunot around the world who until now have not been able to force their husbands to litigate before a court in Israel, or alternately to uphold the rulings of those courts abroad. There is a special symbolic significance in the fact that this event takes place on Hanukkah, and brings light and hope to the lives of the agunot in the Diaspora”.
"There is great joy in the fact that all the parties represented in the Knesset, from the haredi United Torah Judaism to the leftist secular Meretz party, supported this important law."
"Today, the people of Zion have shown their unity with Diaspora Jewry."
"The acute significance of the new law lies in the fact that from the
point of view of civil law in the Diaspora, it is enough for a husband
to provide his wife with a civil divorce to be considered to be
divorced, even if the couple was married according to Halakha. As a
result, hundreds of recalcitrant husbands, who went on to have new
families kept their wives unable to get remarried. This extraordinary
law gives Israeli rabbinical courts the jurisdiction to impose sanctions
against such husbands, even though they are neither citizens nor
residents."
presumably you oppose this.
ReplyDeletewhy can't there be innovation in this area of Halacha? Rav Moshe even encouraged rabbis to innovate.
“Good news for dozens of agunot around the world” True. “The acute significance of the new law lies in the fact that from the point of view of civil law in the Diaspora, it is enough for a husband to provide his wife with a civil divorce to be considered to be divorced, even if the couple was married according to Halakha. As a result, hundreds of recalcitrant husbands, who went on to have new families kept their wives unable to get remarried”
ReplyDeleteNo. The husband does not provide his wife with a civil divorce. Oh, if he did, that’s another story.
Once she wins in NYS court a contested civil divorce, she’ll get the house, custody, pension and good name. She’ll get sanctions against her husband. She’ll get vigilante justice like Mendel Epstein and Aryeh Ralbag. Hard to undo a ruling on a contested civil divorce. This is my case Aranoff v Aranoff.
Chief Judge Janet DiFiore says: “A new requirement of a full disciplinary hearing for substantiated claims of discrimination; New and improved processes in the Office of the Inspector General to facilitate the filing of racial bias and discrimination claims, including the appointment of an ombudsperson to promptly handle complaints;”
Internet: Discrimination is the act of making unjustified distinctions between people based on the groups, classes, or other categories to which they belong or are perceived to belong.[1] People may be discriminated on the basis of race, gender, age, religion, or sexual orientation, as well as other categories. Discrimination especially occurs when individuals or groups are unfairly treated in a way which is worse than other people are treated, on the basis of their actual or perceived membership in certain groups or social categories.
I welcome Chief Judge Janet DiFiore fight against discrimination. Why? Chief Judge Janet DiFiore may take my side in Aranoff v Aranoff. On December 1, 2021 I got only 45% of my pension, as the case since early 1994---due to anti-men discrimination.
Does she get her own pension on top of it?
ReplyDeleteAll man-made laws presume entitlement to control over human beings.
ReplyDeleteBy what right does the Israeli government presume entitlement to control people who are not citizens or residents of the State of Israel?
A Get given by a husband, under duress, is non-kosher. It has no legal value, and is not worth the paper it was written on. The woman remains in her original status of a married woman.
If this law will facilitate Gittin to be given under duress, then these Gittin are valueless. If a woman remarries on the basis of such a fake Get, then any subsequent children she may have from another man, will be considered MAMZERIM.
Yes, a get given under duress is non-kosher unless it's the right kind of duress in which case we say we were torturing his yetzer hara into submission and now he's making the right decision truly of his own free will.
ReplyDeleteyou might think that, but it is not accepted in modern day halacha.. even thought that was in gemara
ReplyDeleteThanks for the uptick KA. Allow me my letter today to NYS Court of Appeals;
ReplyDelete“2.I'm objecting to NYS's laws on contested civil divorce, where the wife gets a NYS contested civil divorce over her husband's objections.
3.A NYS citizen moving to Israel over the objections of his wife is his right and is fine and admirable. I should be praised for giving the get 2/13/1993 to Susan. I wanted Susan and our children to live with me in Jerusalem as she promised me in writing. Susan did everything in NYS Courts to demonize me with aim of taking my pension, house, and \$10,000 will money.
4.I always hoped that Susan and our six small children in 1991 would join me in the Land of Israel, as Susan promised me in writing. The Jerusalem Bet din advised me to send Susan a get to see if she accepts. Susan accepted 2/13/1993 before witnesses in Rabbi Ralbag's Brooklyn bet din. The same Rabbi Ralbag Judge Freda Wolfson gave immunity for testimony to convict Mendel Epstein et al. I tried to persuade Susan and our children against divorce. Did I do anything wrong? Susan was busy with funny business with agunah rights.
6.In the Bible the man divorces his wife willingly: A man takes a wife and possesses her. She fails to please him because he finds something obnoxious about her, and he writes her a bill of divorcement [Get], hands it to her, and sends her away from his house; she leaves his household and becomes the wife of another man; then this latter man rejects her, writes her, writes her a bill of divorcement [Get], hands it to her, and sends her away from his house; or the man who married her last dies. The the first husband who divorced her shall not take her to wife again, since she has been defiled (i.e. disqualified for him)--for that would be abhorrent to the Lord. You must not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you as a heritage. (Deuteronomy 24:1-4)
10.I welcome NYS Court of Appeals' fight against discrimination. I submitted substantiated claims of discrimination in Aranoff v Aranoff. On December 1, 2021 I got only 45% of my pension, as the case since early 1994---due to anti-men discrimination.”
Wow. NYS civil law allows a wife to get a contested divorce over her husband's objections. Mendel Epstein et al, Agudah International, Aryea Ralbag etc rely on that---and now in Israel---terrible.
It's all in the wording. The Beis Din has to say "We demand that you follow our psak and if you don't, you'll be guilty of rebelling against Beis Din. Our psak is: give your wife a get." Then the beating has to do with the acceptance of Beis Din's authority, not the Get
ReplyDeleteIt needs to be a case where HALACHA requires him to divorce his wife, not a case where radical feminist activists, or their Rabbinic minions, decides that this man must divorce his wife.
ReplyDelete1. If a person came to Beis Din, and BD [falsely] obligated him to give a Get, despite not being required to do so in the very NARROW list mentioned by Chazal, then that Get is considered a coerced get, and is Pasul.
ReplyDelete2. If a woman demands a Get from her husband on flimsy grounds, BD has no right to obligate the husband to give her a Get, just because she demanded so. In such a situation, if the BD forces the husband to give a Get under such circumstances, that is a Get Me'useh Shelo K'din, and is PASUL.
3. If a person had his case heard by BD "A", and they did not rule that he's obligated to give his wife a Get, then BD "B" is powerless to get involved in his case, and surely can't coerce him into giving a Get.
Why does the Israeli government, presume Halachic entitlement to control people, who are not citizens or residents of the State of Israel, nor have they submitted their divorce case to the Rabbanut for resolution?
IR _ my question is slightly different to what you are addressing. But perhaps you do not consider chiddush in halacha to be a real possibility, and that all loopholes were already given at Sinai?
ReplyDeleteThe Thirteen Principles of Jewish Faith of Maimonides
ReplyDelete8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.
9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.
So prozbul, mechirat chametz etc?
ReplyDelete1-4 - All true, but if the BD does find something on Chazal's list (and really, it's not that hard if you ask the right questions instead of just taking the guy's word for it) and orders the man to give the get then my solution work.
ReplyDeleteWe're not talking about a case where the woman walks in and says "Well he doesn't complement my outfits enough" or "He doesn't help enough with the children". We're talking about "He drinks, then he comes home and beats me" situations
Israel is probably doing this because some of the menuvalim run there to hide when they get into trouble with the civil courts in their home countries.
There are 13 of them.
ReplyDeleteAnd some like to pick n mix, just like they do in the candy store.
Yes, since when has the Torah forbidden wool?
ReplyDeleteYet very frum people seem to think they can forbid all woollen garments.
I accept all thirteen
ReplyDeleteNorm if not for often reading your exchanges with Aristobulus i would imagine you were trolling or jesting. Very interested to know the basis of why you say this, please do share more, if you would
ReplyDeleteMost Get-refusers have no trouble with the civil courts, in their home countries, and they have absolutely nothing to hide from. With the issuance of the civil divorce, they are legally compliant, and they are free to move on with their life.
ReplyDeleteIf they receive a Heter Me'ah Rabbanim, they can remarry, and be in full compliance with Halacha.
The problem starts when such a person wants to visit Israel, for a wedding, bar-mitzvah, or funeral.
The powers to be in the State of Israel, have decided that they have full jurisdiction over this person; over a Halachic matter, that is actually none of their business.
They will jail this person (or in a particular case, his relative), or refuse to allow him to leave the country in order to return home.
A Get given by a husband, under such duress, is non-kosher. It has no legal value, and the woman remains in her original status of a married woman, an “Eishes Ish”.
Torah thought parsha ויגש “His sobs were so loud that the Egyptians could hear ויתן את קלו בבכי וישמעו מצרים, and so the news reached Pharaoh’s palace. Joseph said to his brethren: I am Joseph. Is my father still well העוד אבי חי? But his brothers could not answer him, so dumfounded were they on account of him. Then Joseph said to his brother, Come forward to me. And when they came forward, he said, I am your brother Joseph, he whom you sold into Egypt אשר מכרתם אתי מצרימה. Now do not be distressed or reproach yourselves, because you sold me hither כי מכרתם אתי הנה; it was to save life that God sent me ahead of you. It is now two years that there has been famine in the land, and there are still five years to come in which there will be no yield from tilling אין חריש וקציר. God has sent me ahead of you to ensure your survival on earth, and to save your lives in an extraordinary deliverance. So, it was not you who sent me here ועתה לא אתם שלחתם אתי הנה, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh, lord of all his household, and ruler over the whole land of Egypt.” (Genesis 45:2-8).
ReplyDeleteBeautiful. My theory. Joseph was worried about rebellion/insurrection of his brothers. He put on a big show before everyone. I say: lie, outlandish, from the beginning, made of whole cloth, the whole business the brothers sold Joseph into Egypt. Truth the brothers sold Joseph for twenty shekels as a slave: “When Midianite traders passed by ויעברו אנשים מדינים סוחרים, they [the brothers] pulled Joseph out of the pit. They sold Joseph for twenty shekels of silver to the Ishmaelites, who brought Joseph to Egypt.” (Genesis 37:28).
Joseph always wanted to be the leader and his brothers hated him for that. Joseph feared a coup, that the brothers would say we sold Joseph for 20 shekels as a slave to the Ishmaelites. What the Ishmaelites would do, the brothers didn’t ask.
Joseph says and repeats and repeats sending Joseph to Egypt, hither, and to here. Why all this repetition? Critical; the brothers agree with Joseph’s wording how he got to Egypt.
Joseph lied that the brothers “sold him into Egypt.” Joseph was thinking of the media in ancient Egypt. Rebellions/insurrections happen all the time everywhere, even with wise kings that bring much prosperity.
To my knowledge, nobody has ever Halachically forbidden wearing all woolen garments.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Maimonides, those who pick and mix which principles of Jewish faith they choose to believe in, are referred to as heretics.
ReplyDeleteThe Prozbul enactment was a Halachic workaround; that operates within the framework of existing Halacha. The same applies to selling one's "chametz" before the Passover holiday. They both do not violate anything in the Torah.
ReplyDeleteNon. Halachically
ReplyDeleteToldos avrum. yitzhak.
You are just repeating same script. What makes these loopholes Halacha?
ReplyDeletebecause they both do not violate anything in the Torah.
ReplyDeleteIs there anything wrong, with a person adopting a stringency designed to prevent them from coming to a sin?
ReplyDeleteIt's not a stringency, it is adding to the Torah. one can avoid shaatnez by acting within the halacha.
ReplyDelete