https://cross-currents.com/2008/05/16/the-conversion-psak-some-comments-and-one-observation/
If and when the dust settles, one consequence will remain. The status of every convert over the last decades is potentially in jeopardy. No one can change this – not after the passing of Rav Moshe zt”l and Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l, when we lost the last figures whose piskei halacha would be accepted by all parts of the Torah world. Today, what one authority says will be rejected by another. This is what makes gerus different from a psak in hilchos muktzah or giving a hechsher on a restaurant. If someone disagrees with the muktzah psak or finds the resturant’s standards wanting, he doesn’t have to move the object or patronize the eatery. If the decision is objectionable, the consequences are mostly local and circumscribed. Gerus is different. Its effects are felt for all time, and in a plethora of applications. It doesn’t matter if objections are valid or not. If there is room to question a gerus, it will be questioned, and there is no objective way to quiet the questioners. Some – many – people will treat the conversion with suspicion.
The only way to safeguard against this is to operate conversion courts according to standards acceptable to all. Many will strain against this. It is not fair, they say, to limit the discretion of the rav who follows some different standard. Perhaps. But it is less fair and exceedingly cruel to imply to a conversion candidate that his/her gerus is in order, knowing that many people will question it. It is foolish and naïve to think that a court employing the standard of some daas yachid will somehow “get away with it” unnoticed.
http://www.chareidi.org/archives5768/VKR68aejf.htm
ReplyDelete"..Eternal Jewish Family (EJF), headed by HaRav Leib Tropper
which works extensively to uphold proper conversion practices
around the world based on consultations with gedolei
Yisroel, is warning against certain Chief Rabbinate
officials who are offering support and recognition for modern
rabbis who do not operate in accordance with halacha and is
urging the Chief Rabbinate to announce publicly that it will
not back these rabbis."
a) Tropper set himself up as the gatekeep for proper conversion practices
b) this was based on consultations with Gedolei Yisraoel - according to Yated Daas Torah
c) Despite this, It was revealed that Tropper was issuing phoney conversion certificates himself , the details of which trump anything that has been done since Jacob Frank
d) Tropper would barter and exchange a high standard conversion certificate, backed by Gedolei Yisroel, for the s-xual services of prospective giyoeres.
e) Tropper would also pimp out his giores to other freinds of his, as par tof the barter. Thsi makes tropepr not only a menuval, but also a Sarsur. Sarsur in Mishnaic hebrew is only a middle-man, whereas in modern Hebrew it is a pimp.
Thus, the highest standard of hareidi conversion , espoused by EJF, and backed Vaad L'Inyonei ..znus, was based on a znus/prostitution industry led by the highest echelon of hareidi rabbonim.
הַקֹּל קוֹל יַעֲקֹב, וְהַיָּדַיִם, יְדֵי עֵשָׂו
ReplyDeleteKol Yaakov being the name of tropper 's yeshiva.
https://www.amazon.com/Yichud-Leib-Tropper/dp/5511194433
ReplyDeleteA sefer by tropper on the subject of Yichud.
Freundel also published some on ethics and marital purity.
> The only way to safeguard against this is to operate conversion courts according to standards acceptable to all
ReplyDeleteAnd I'll say again what I said back then - this statement makes the vast majority of Orthodox Jews, who have authoritative psak to support their positions, hostage to the extreme "no chumra is strigent enough" crowd. It puts the majority in the position of having to accept those standards because of "If you don't, we won't consider you Jewish!" bullying.
And if the exteme standards are beyond the accepted standard of halakhic practice for geirus? Who cares? The bullies run the show.
Actually, the article is a lie. Geirus is no different from kashrus, shabbes, sheitel. Or anything else.
ReplyDeleteRambam already said that even a false ger who gets absorbed into the system, the din is they are Jewish.
The hareidim don't have great leaders, so they pick an arbitrary reboot time, and then say all halacha must be like I say. Eg the chazon ish, rsza etc.
And who was the great arbiter of highest conversion standards? Harav haPimp tropper.
ReplyDeleteSince when is the halacha always according to Rambam?
ReplyDeleteYour comment was ignorant and biased!
So you view the hachchic process as one of bullying and prefer anarchy instead?!
ReplyDeleteIt is not always according to the Rambam, but he is nevertheless important.
ReplyDeletethere are limits as to what chumras the rabbis can place on people. And if the people cannot accept them, they are not valid (according to the old Rambam).
ReplyDeleteSo you are the ultimate judge s to whether a ruling is valid?!
ReplyDeleteThe community is. If they are gezeiras or Chumras.
ReplyDeleteIn any case. There is no point in us debating this. If somebody else was arguing the other way, you would bring the same rambam as I do.
right it is irrelevant for Torah and most rabbinic laws
ReplyDeleteOne of my rebbeim in lubavitch once said that in areas of Halacha that the shulchan Aruch doesn't cover, the Rambam is the shulchan Aruch. Is there a methodology you are award of that supports or rejects this proposal?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the scope of the Aruch hashulchan heAtid? And does it differ from the Rambam?