Donald Trump made the politically popular pledge to bring U.S. troops
home from the nation’s longest war. Now Joe Biden is delivering on the
promise -- and reaping growing criticism over the grim results that are
unfolding in Afghanistan.
America has never learned this lesson: Conquest is easy. Occupation is difficult. It requires cruelty when the occupied population won't cooperate. America could've won in Afghanistan and with their technology it wouldn't have cost that many soldiers but the cost would've huge - they'd have had to kill hundreds of thousands of people to wipe out the Taliban. They'd have had to strike at Pakistan to wipe out the Taliban being sheltered there. Like Nixon wanting to level all of Indochina, it could've been done but the cost was too high. Next up: Iraq!
How will this affect the Jews? It occurs to me: most of the tznius excesses we see in the UO community starting showing up in the 1990's. Photoshopping women out of existence. Miechitzos everywhere, even at simple dinners. Separate seating on buses. Increasing standards for clothing. The burka babes. And I wonder - that's right about the time the Taliban took over Afghanistan. It's almost like "the Gedolim" and their handlers looked east and were shocked to discover a religious group that was more into "tznius" than they were. We couldn't have that so all these new innovations (which were promptly labelled as "and we've always had these standards") showed up. Well now the Taliban are back in power so I wonder: what will the UO response be? What new rules for women that "we've always had" will suddenly appear?
Right - if Biden did anything good, it's because he is so good. But when he does something bad, you blame Trump. If he curbs covid successfully, then it's because he's a democrat. But if people keep dying, it's not even the Chinese to blame for creating the virus - it all goes back to Trump.
well, some people claim that has always been the case, e.g. they allege that Rambam's 13 principles of faith were "copied" in style from the Xtians, who had their own theology and ikkarim, whereas we didn't. Is extending this argument to all chumras a good argument? Chumras might be outrageous or baseless - the psychology behind them might be shared with other religions, although the cause and effect isn't there. The argument even against mysticism makes the same kind of claim - "look at the Sufis, what an amazing system they have, shouldn't we have something like that too? "
I'm sorry, i didn't make my point clear enough - Garnel is claiming that chumros are influenced by Taliban, Khomeini etc.
It is a fact that some people - regardles sof who they were, claimed that Rambam was "influenced" too. Mentioning this does not mean i agree with either of the claims, not Garnel's and not those who were criticial of Rambam. The form of certain religious matters eg theology or strictures may resemble otehr religions.
Did Rambam wear a turban? Do Hassidim wear furry shtreimels which were artefacts of their East European origins? Why do no hassidim wear black hats in the style of western Europe?
Was Rambam an Aristotelian, or just used the language of that time? Even hsi general philosophy - was it a device for making Torah more accessible, or was he actualy a believer in logic? In The Guide he says that Kavod of Hashem represetns the seichel - the intellect. So there is a distinction between form and substance. On the other hand, islam is essentially a rehash of Judaism. The observe brit milah, shechita, some kashrut (chazir) and even taharas mishpacha. So almost everything that they practice is an overexpression (eg davening 5x a day) or underexpression ( eating every species except for pigs) of Judaism.
Not so simple - the Russians were in a cold war with the West -
Reagan and Thatcher collaborated to break the Russian bear, and were successful. In Afghanistan, they were doing reasonably well, but when the US stepped in, backing the Mujaheddin (early Jihadists), and provided them with Stinger missiles to down the Russian helicopters, the Russians started losing too many troops.
Is the situation in Syria comparable today, vis a vis Isis?
Perhaps if foreign forces pulled out , the Isis would make a comeback. But Russia is using more advanced aircraft and drones and have helped Suria crush Isis. If Russia wanted to go alone in Afghanistan today, they might be able to overcome Taliban, as they are ruthless . Also, we don't know if the Taliban today is as bad as people fear. They are presenting a friendlier image.
America has never learned this lesson: Conquest is easy. Occupation is difficult. It requires cruelty when the occupied population won't cooperate.
ReplyDeleteAmerica could've won in Afghanistan and with their technology it wouldn't have cost that many soldiers but the cost would've huge - they'd have had to kill hundreds of thousands of people to wipe out the Taliban. They'd have had to strike at Pakistan to wipe out the Taliban being sheltered there. Like Nixon wanting to level all of Indochina, it could've been done but the cost was too high.
Next up: Iraq!
How will this affect the Jews?
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me: most of the tznius excesses we see in the UO community starting showing up in the 1990's. Photoshopping women out of existence. Miechitzos everywhere, even at simple dinners. Separate seating on buses. Increasing standards for clothing. The burka babes.
And I wonder - that's right about the time the Taliban took over Afghanistan. It's almost like "the Gedolim" and their handlers looked east and were shocked to discover a religious group that was more into "tznius" than they were. We couldn't have that so all these new innovations (which were promptly labelled as "and we've always had these standards") showed up.
Well now the Taliban are back in power so I wonder: what will the UO response be? What new rules for women that "we've always had" will suddenly appear?
Right - if Biden did anything good, it's because he is so good. But when he does something bad, you blame Trump.
ReplyDeleteIf he curbs covid successfully, then it's because he's a democrat. But if people keep dying, it's not even the Chinese to blame for creating the virus - it all goes back to Trump.
Are you claiming Trump did not initiate withdrawal as well as recognizing Taliban and that he was mentioned solely to excuse Biden?!
ReplyDeleteNo, he did initiate it. But he initiated a lot of things that Biden reversed.
ReplyDeleteFor example?
ReplyDeletee.g. Trump sanctions on Iran, Biden releasing money for talks
ReplyDeleteeg the wall -
ReplyDeletehttps://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/23/politics/border-wall-contracts/index.html
Biden administration terminates two border wall contracts in Texas
https://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ls1/~3/pY2KUqqI_cw/?erVsWYrCR
ReplyDeleteNope! - cases are not comparable
ReplyDeleteNope - cases are not comparable!
ReplyDeletewell, some people claim that has always been the case, e.g. they allege that Rambam's 13 principles of faith were "copied" in style from the Xtians, who had their own theology and ikkarim, whereas we didn't. Is extending this argument to all chumras a good argument? Chumras might be outrageous or baseless - the psychology behind them might be shared with other religions, although the cause and effect isn't there. The argument even against mysticism makes the same kind of claim - "look at the Sufis, what an amazing system they have, shouldn't we have something like that too? "
ReplyDeleteWho are the "some people" - a poor excuse to hide behind!
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, i didn't make my point clear enough -
ReplyDeleteGarnel is claiming that chumros are influenced by Taliban, Khomeini etc.
It is a fact that some people - regardles sof who they were, claimed that Rambam was "influenced" too. Mentioning this does not mean i agree with either of the claims, not Garnel's and not those who were criticial of Rambam. The form of certain religious matters eg theology or strictures may resemble otehr religions.
Did Rambam wear a turban? Do Hassidim wear furry shtreimels which were artefacts of their East European origins? Why do no hassidim wear black hats in the style of western Europe?
Was Rambam an Aristotelian, or just used the language of that time? Even hsi general philosophy - was it a device for making Torah more accessible, or was he actualy a believer in logic? In The Guide he says that Kavod of Hashem represetns the seichel - the intellect. So there is a distinction between form and substance.
On the other hand, islam is essentially a rehash of Judaism. The observe brit milah, shechita, some kashrut (chazir) and even taharas mishpacha. So almost everything that they practice is an overexpression (eg davening 5x a day) or underexpression ( eating every species except for pigs) of Judaism.
see https://www.oztorah.com/2011/05/a-point-of-principle-why-did-maimonides-write-his-creeds/
ReplyDeletefor a discsusion of various views on the 13 principles
is this the "some people" or did he really mean there are some irreligious academics who make claims?
ReplyDeleteso that is why the Russians also lost?!
ReplyDeleteso you consider academics as not people but what? fish? bats?
ReplyDeleteIf you read my original comment in its entirety, you will see it was generally disagreeing with Mr Ironheart.
BTW, Chasdai Crescas, who was a great Rabbi, took issue with Maimonides with his Ikkarim,and Aristotelian philosophy in general
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/crescas/
The Russians lost because their economy was collapsing and the occupation simply wasn't affordable anymore.
ReplyDeleteNot so simple -
ReplyDeletethe Russians were in a cold war with the West -
Reagan and Thatcher collaborated to break the Russian bear, and were successful. In Afghanistan, they were doing reasonably well, but when the US stepped in, backing the Mujaheddin (early Jihadists), and provided them with Stinger missiles to down the Russian helicopters, the Russians started losing too many troops.
Is the situation in Syria comparable today, vis a vis Isis?
Perhaps if foreign forces pulled out , the Isis would make a comeback. But Russia is using more advanced aircraft and drones and have helped Suria crush Isis.
If Russia wanted to go alone in Afghanistan today, they might be able to overcome Taliban, as they are ruthless .
Also, we don't know if the Taliban today is as bad as people fear. They are presenting a friendlier image.