Vayikra Rabbah (8:1) A Roman lady asked R. Jose b. Halafta: ‘In how many days did the Holy One, blessed be He, create His world?’ He answered: ‘In six days, as it is written, For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, etc.’ (Ex. 31, 17). She asked further: ‘And what has He been doing since that time?’ He answered: ‘He is joining couples proclaiming: "A's wife to be is allotted to A; A's daughter is allotted to B; (So-and-so's wealth is for So-and-so).’’’1 Said she: ‘This is a thing which I, too, am able to do. See how many male slaves and how many female slaves I have; I can make them consort together all at the same time.’ Said he: ‘If in your eyes it is an easy task, it is in His eyes as hard a task as the dividing of the Red Sea.’ He then went away and left her. What did she do? She sent for a thousand male slaves and a thousand female slaves, placed them in rows, and said to them: ‘Male A shall take to wife female B; C shall take D and so on.’ She let them consort together one night. In the morning they came to her; one had a head wounded, another had an eye taken out, another an elbow crushed, another a leg broken; one said: ‘I do not want this one as my husband,’ another said: ‘I do not want this one as my wife.’ Immediately she sent for R. Jose b. Halafta and said to him: ‘Rabbi, your Torah is true, fine and excellent; all you have said was well said.’Said he to her: ‘Have I not told you that if in your eyes it is an easy task, it is in His eyes a task as hard as the dividing of the Red Sea, as it is said, He maketh the solitary to dwell in a house, He bringeth out the prisoners into prosperity-ba-kosharoth (Ps. 68:7)?1 What does "ba-kosharoth" mean?-"Weeping (beki) and singing (shiroth)." He who is pleased with his match utters song, while he who is not pleased weeps. And what does God do when bringing about matches? He pairs them together despite themselves, without their good will.’
Marriage is about forming a new company, Ploni Inc, with both senior partners managing the assets and products (ie children). People would put their lives into their businesses but treat their families as disposable.
ReplyDeletewhat is the last sentence in your piece referring to? to boors?
ReplyDeleteIn every marriage, the senior partner, is Hashem.
ReplyDeleteThe man and woman are merely junior partners.
Hashem is the one who provides all the capital, and the other partners owe their lives to Him. Hashem is also the one who decides whether or not the man and woman can consummate deals on their own, in their quest to produce children.
If the junior partners try to make deals on their own, forgetting the senior Partner, they might find out that no deal, baby.
No baby.
Yeah, but the Senior Partner is pretty much invisible at all the business meetings, never tables any motions and we have no idea how He votes.
ReplyDeleteThe Senior Partner may be pretty much invisible at all meetings; however he's aware of everything that goes on. So ignore Him at your own risk. If you want His input, you need to take Him into the bedroom with you.
ReplyDeleteHow, you mean lefi shulchan Aruch? How about thinking the devil is forcing you, revealing 1 tefach etc?
ReplyDeleteDo you think apikorsim don't have babies?
ReplyDeleteHow could Rambam reject Shulchan?!
ReplyDeleteHashem has his "cheshbonos" why he grants children to people; even if they are seemingly undeserving of such blessings.
ReplyDeleteIn fact He even allows "mamzerim" to be conceived and born, even though their conception was through a vulgar sin, and their continued existence in this world is a stain on society.
However my comment was directed to those who, unfortunately, are having trouble conceiving.
My suggestion, besides for the medical "hishtadlus" involved, is to actively take Hashem into their bedroom, though "Tefilla" and "Kavanna".
This elevates the couple spiritually, and adds a dimension of holiness to the process. They humbly acknowledge that they can't do it on their own, and beseech Hashem to join them in this endeavor. Perhaps, in this merit, they will be found worthy of being partners with Hashem, in creating a new human being.
Each couple should speak to their Rav for guidance.
ReplyDeleteMy suggestion is through "Tefilla" and "Kavanna".
Obviously, what they’ve been trying until now hasn’t worked so far.
What’s needed here; is a game changer.
"Tefilla" and "Kavanna" can change a person, so that they’re not the same mundane people anymore, and can bring them to a level that they are found to more deserving of partnering with Hashem.
He pskens differently, saying what a man does with his wife is his own business.
ReplyDeleteHow can shulchan Aruch go by a system of 3 rishonim who lived at different times? That is not a living bet Din.
??? where does Rambam disagree with Shulchan Aruch??!
ReplyDeleteShulchan Aruch's authority is because they are viewed as beis din??? where did you get such nonsense from?
So what sensible system was the sa based on if not a bet Din system? Why is a majority of 3 sources used?
ReplyDeleteWho said divorce? I was referring to marital relations as was Reader .
I agree in general with what you say. Some very good points.
ReplyDeleteSort of like the immaculate conception?
ReplyDeleteNope!
ReplyDeleteEverywhere and always!
ReplyDeletewhere is there a disagreement regarding ,marital relations?
ReplyDeleteRead the Intro to the Shulchan Auruch
here is something Rambam says in Deot 2:3
ReplyDeleteאָמְרוּ חֲכָמִים
הָרִאשׁוֹנִים כָּל הַכּוֹעֵס כְּאִלּוּ עוֹבֵד עֲבוֹדַת כּוֹכָבִים.
וְאָמְרוּ שֶׁכָּל הַכּוֹעֵס אִם חָכָם הוּא חָכְמָתוֹ מִסְתַּלֶּקֶת
מִמֶּנּוּ וְאִם נָבִיא הוּא נְבוּאָתוֹ מִסְתַּלֶּקֶת מִמֶּנּוּ.
וּבַעֲלֵי כַּעַס אֵין חַיֵּיהֶם חַיִּים. לְפִיכָךְ צִוּוּ לְהִתְרַחֵק
מִן הַכַּעַס עַד שֶׁיַּנְהִיג עַצְמוֹ שֶׁלֹּא יַרְגִּישׁ אֲפִלּוּ
לַדְּבָרִים הַמַּכְעִיסִים וְזוֹ הִיא הַדֶּרֶךְ הַטּוֹבָה. וְדֶרֶךְ
הַצַּדִּיקִים הֵן עֲלוּבִין וְאֵינָן עוֹלְבִין שׁוֹמְעִים חֶרְפָּתָם
וְאֵינָם מְשִׁיבִין עוֹשִׂין מֵאַהֲבָה וּשְׂמֵחִים בְּיִסּוּרִים.
וַעֲלֵיהֶם הַכָּתוּב אוֹמֵר (שופטים ה לא) "וְאֹהֲבָיו כְּצֵאת הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ בִּגְבֻרָתוֹ"
Now, I would like to know what is the anger that the sages are referring to here?
example 1: In one yeshiva i spent some time at, I went to the office to ask a question regarding my enrollment or to ask a question of a Rav. One of the Rabbinic administrators started shouting at me for no reason, other than my having asked the question. So this kind of anger is certainly evil, as demonstrated by that Rabbi.
However, there is another sort of anger which G-d has given to us, and it is to get out of a dangerous situation. Anger at people who lie to you, abuse you or others, try to kill or steal from you etc. That is a very healthy anger, and one who suppresses it is killing himself. How can din rodeif be carried out if one does not react to evil? A happy idiot cannot fight or lift a sword to defend himself. So can we have a definition of anger please?
This is relevant to what? Or are simply changing the topic?
ReplyDeleteLast I checked, God, fathering a baby, is not mentioned in the Torah.
ReplyDeleteHowever the Talmud teaches us, that there are three partners in a person; his parents, and God.
So He is the Senior Partner, every time a child is born.
I'm simply chainging the topic to get an answer if anyone can help me - please don't get angry with me :)
ReplyDeleteDaas Torah Mod Kalonymus HaQatan • 2 hours ago • edited where is there a disagreement regarding ,marital relations?
ReplyDeleteIssurei Biah 21:9
ט
אִשְׁתּוֹ
שֶׁל אָדָם מֻתֶּרֶת הִיא לוֹ. לְפִיכָךְ כָּל מַה שֶּׁאָדָם רוֹצֶה
לַעֲשׂוֹת בְּאִשְׁתּוֹ עוֹשֶׂה. בּוֹעֵל בְּכָל עֵת שֶׁיִּרְצֶה
וּמְנַשֵּׁק בְּכָל אֵיבָר וְאֵיבָר שֶׁיִּרְצֶה. [וּבָא עָלֶיהָ
כְּדַרְכָּהּ וְשֶׁלֹּא כְּדַרְכָּהּ ] וּבִלְבַד שֶׁלֹּא יוֹצִיא שִׁכְבַת
זֶרַע לְבַטָּלָה. וְאַף עַל פִּי כֵן מִדַּת חֲסִידוּת שֶׁלֹּא יָקֵל
אָדָם אֶת רֹאשׁוֹ לְכָךְ וְשֶׁיְּקַדֵּשׁ עַצְמוֹ בִּשְׁעַת תַּשְׁמִישׁ
כְּמוֹ שֶׁבֵּאַרְנוּ בְּהִלְכוֹת דֵּעוֹת. וְלֹא יָסוּר מִדֶּרֶךְ
הָעוֹלָם וּמִנְהָגוֹ שֶׁאֵין דָּבָר זֶה אֶלָּא כְּדֵי לִפְרוֹת
וְלִרְבּוֹת:
Why not write a guest post on the topic?
ReplyDeleteShulchan Aruch (E.H. 25:2)
ReplyDeleteA man should not act with levity with his wife, nor should he degrade his speech with nonsense, even between him and her. The verse says, "He tells man what his speech is" (Amos 4:13) and the Sages comment, "Even light conversation between a man and his wife will be brought to judgement in the future." He should not speak with her during intercourse, nor before it, lest he direct his thoughts to another woman. If he does speak with her and proceed immediately to intercourse, about him the verse says, "He tells man what his speech is". He may speak about matters pertinent to the intercourse, to increase his desire, or if there was strife between them and he needed to appeal to her and appease her, he may speak with her to appeal to her. Rem"a: He may do with his wife whatever he wishes. He may have intercourse whenever he wishes, he may kiss any part of her body that he desires, he may have vaginal [typical] or anal [atypical] intercourse, or stimulate himself with other parts of her body, so long as he does not ejaculate outside the vagina (Tur). Some authorities are lenient and say that he may even ejaculate during anal intercourse, if it is occasional and not his habit (Tur). Even though all of this is permissible, anyone who wishes to sanctify himself [by abstaining] from the permitted is called holy. He should not have frequent intercourse so that he is always with her, for this is extremely detrimental and it is the way of boors; it is meritorious to minimize intercourse, only keeping to the minimum required by marital obligations. Even when fulfilling marital obligations he should not focus on his pleasure, it should instead be as on paying back an obligation, for he is obligated in marital duties, and to fulfill the mitzvah of being fruitful and multiplying, and to have children who study Torah and perform mitzvot for the people of Israel. He may not have intercourse without her consent, and if she is not interested he should appease her until she is interested. He should be very private during intercourse, having no people of any kind around, even a child, unless it is a baby who cannot speak.
Will need more time to do research
ReplyDeleteok
ReplyDeleteBasherte means happiness in getting soul-mate? Yes.
ReplyDeleteדברים כ"ד ה'
כִּי יִקַּח אִישׁ אִשָּׁה חֲדָשָׁה לֹא יֵצֵא בַּצָּבָא וְלֹא יַעֲבֹר עָלָיו לְכָל דָּבָר נָקִי יִהְיֶה לְבֵיתוֹ שָׁנָה אֶחָת וְשִׂמַּח אֶת אִשְׁתּוֹ אֲשֶׁר לָקָח:
מדרש תנאים לדברים (הופמן) דברים פרשת כי תצא פרק כד פסוק ה
כי יקח איש אשה חדשה אין לי אלא בתולה מנ' לרבות אלמנה ושומרת יבם ת"ל ושמח את אשתו מכל מקום: אם כן למה נאמר חדשה מי שחידשה לו פרט למחזיר גרושתו ואלמנה לכהן גדול גרושה וחלוצה לכהן הדיוט ממזרת ונתינה לישראל בת ישראל לממזר ולנתין:
Sota 44a
“AND WHAT MAN IS THERE THAT HATH BETROTHED A WIFE? etc. Our Rabbis taught: That hath betrothed It is all one whether he betrothed a virgin or a widow or a childless widow waiting for her brother-in-law; and even when there are five brothers, one of whom died in battle, they all return home. [The fact that Scripture does not read] and hath not taken but and hath not taken her is to exclude a High Priest who married a widow, an ordinary priest who married a divorcee or a Haluzah, a lay Israelite who married an illegitimate or a Nethinah, or a daughter of an Israelite married to an illegitimate or a Nathin. ”
Beautiful. The Torah says that a Jewish man who married a proper wife does not serve in the army but must make his new wife happy for one year. My theory. The man in a sense is like a slave to his wife to make her happy her whole life. Real men love their wives and don’t mind if their wives boss them around. Thank you God in heaven. Netanyahu is a real man.
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