Tuesday, January 7, 2020

how to start a war

Berachos (3b) He said to them: Then go out in troops and attack [the enemy for plunder]. They at once took counsel with Ahithofel and consulted the Sanhedrin and questioned the Urim and Tummim.21 R. Joseph says: What verse [may be cited in support of this]? And after Ahithofel was Jehoiada, the son of Benaiah,22 and Abiathar; and the captain of the King's host was Joab.23

iN OTHER WORDS   first discuss the plans for war with close advisors then consult with Sanhedrin (congress) for permission and prayers and then the urim vTumim to know whether it would be successful

Trump says since I am a stable genius and I need to distract from impeachment, stir up my base to get me more attention and I need to show Iran that they can't challenge me - I will start war for my political benefit without concern to consequences to others as he accuse Obama of planning in 2011

29 comments:

  1. You missed an important part of what he said that Iran will not go get nuclear weapons

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  2. Berachoth 5a:
    “R. Levi b. Hama says further in the name of R. Simeon b. Lakish: What is the meaning of the verse: “The Lord said to Moses, Come up to Me on the mountain and wait there, and I will give you the stone tablets לחת הבן with the teachings והתורה and commandments והמצוה which I have inscribed אשר כתבתי to instruct them להורתם.” (Exodus 24:12). Tables of stone: these are the ten commandments; the law: this is the Pentateuch; the commandment: this is the Mishnah; which I have written: these are the Prophets and the Hagiographa; that thou mayest teach them: this is the Gemara. It teaches [us] that all these things were given to Moses on Sinai. R. Isaac says: If one recites the Shema upon his bed, it is as though he held a two-edged sword in his hand [to protect him against the demons]. For it is said “with paeans to God in their throats and two-edged swords in their hands,”(Psalms 149:6). How does it indicate this? Mar Zutra, (some say, R. Ashi) says: [The lesson is] from the preceding verse. For it is written “Let the faithful exult in glory; let them shout for joy upon their couches,” (Psalms 149:8). And then it is written: Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand. R. Isaac says further: If] one recites the Shema upon his bed, the demons keep away from him. For it is said “For man כי אדם is born to mischief לעמל יולד , Just as sparks ובני רשף fly upward יגביהו עוף.” (Job 5:7). And the sons of reshef fly [uf] upward. The word uf refers only to the Torah, as it is written “Do not toil to gain wealth; Have the sense to desist. You see it, then it is gone; It grows wings and flies away, Like an eagle, heavenward.” (Proverbs 23:4-5): Wilt thou cause thine eyes to close [hata'if] upon it? It is gone. And reshef refers only to the demons, as it is said “Wasting famine, ravaging plague, Deadly pestilence, and fanged beasts Will I let loose against them, With venomous creepers in dust.” (Deuteronomy 32:24)”
    The Malbim on Job 5:7:
    “For a man to labor, that man is to labor, and his labor brings his bread, and he who amasses riches without toil/labor of his hands, [such riches] will not grow and not succeed to his sons. Ultimately, the success of man depends on his endeavor and toil of his hands, and not as you [Eliphaz is arguing with Job] said that man's success is derived from the sons of Rashf , that they are the caste of the stars that send their sparks and their effects down and act in the world of degradation for all human action, that the sons of Reshef raise up, that the heavenly spiritual powers flowing from the star regimes, these reshef raise up, which flies high and uplifted from the vile world and has no power to act upon the vile world”
    Beautiful. Man must learn Torah and do mitzvoth and do only honest work. Dishonest massing of wealth, by stealing and such, will not last and will bring punishments to the evil doers. I love Eliphaz in the Book of Job. Trump and Netanyahu do honest work and endeavors. God bless Trump and Netanyahu.

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  3. He also missed the fact that Trump did not declare war against Iran.

    Did Obama go to Congress for permission before he gave the order to take out Osama bin Laden? No.

    A commander-in-chief also has very broad powers to act when he feels that America and American interests and Americans themselves are being threatened.

    Trump reportedly consulted with the Pentagon, who put the option of killing Soleimani on the table.

    The Pentagon also defended Trump's decision.
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/06/pentagon-leaders-defend-soleimani-strike-he-was-planning-imminent-combat-operations-against-u-s-military/
    Army Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters at the Pentagon:
    I’ll stand by the intelligence I saw that was compelling... and it was imminent.

    “Those of us who were involved in the decision-making of that, we would have been culpably negligent to the American people had we not made the decision we made,” he added.

    [B]oth Milley and Defense Secretary Mark Esper said they were well aware of the risks and that it was necessary to protect American lives.

    “We had a responsibility to act when American lives are threatened and I think that’s a responsible thing to do,” Esper told reporters.

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  4. “Trump says since I am a stable genius and I need to distract from impeachment, stir up my base to get me more attention and I need to show Iran that they can't challenge me - I will start war for my political benefit without concern to consequences to others as he accuse Obama of planning in 2011”
    No.
    The brothers started with Joseph in וישב by throwing him into a pit, empty of water. Joseph replied in מקץ by putting the brothers in jail for 3 days on false/baseless spy charge. Joseph in מקץ plants his divining goblet in Benjamin’s sack and announces that Benjamin stays in Egypt. Judah is surety/guarantor in ויגש. Jacob blesses Pharaoh and all Israelites settle in Egypt in ויגש. ויחי Jacob’s burial and the death of Joseph.
    The brothers started the war. Was it for their political benefit without regard to consequences to others? One could make such a case. Joseph responded. God helped Joseph. The brothers beg forgiveness in ויחי.
    Hitler started WWII for his political benefit with no regard to consequences for Jews and many others. Did Germany really apologize? See http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/25001
    “Germany has abandoned Israel at the UN, voting for anti-Israel resolutions 9 times in 2019 and abstaining 3 times. Heusgen, Germany's UN delegate, is on the Wiesenthal Center list of 10 worst anti-Semites.”
    Back to Eliphaz in the Book of Job:
    “See, we have inquired into this and it is so; Hear it and accept it.” (Job 5:27).
    Job Soncino 1960 p. 22;
    “Eliphaz sums up his entire speech by affirming that it embodies the investigation into truth of himself and his friends. He bids Job lay it to heart. ‘The speech of Eliphaz is one of the masterpieces of the book. The surprising skill of the author is hardly anywhere so conspicuous’ (Davidson).”
    On Job 5:7 p. 19
    “as the sparks fly upward. Lit. ‘and the sons of flame,’ usually interpreted as sparks which, by their nature, fly upward, and so figurative of what is inevitable....Here, perhaps, the reason is given, viz. they fly upwards out of reach of man’s cry for help in trouble. The translation would then be: ‘and the sons of flame (angelic beings) fly upward,’ and have no knowledge of, or ignore, human vicissitudes.”
    In ויחי Joseph cries “So shall you say to Joseph, Forgive, I urge you, the offense and guilt of your brothers who treated you so harshly. Therefore, please forgive the offense of the servants of the God of your father. And Joseph was in tears as they spoke to him.” (Genesis 50:17).
    Joseph cries because, Hertz Chumash p. 189: “Joseph wept. Because of their want of confidence in him.”
    We who love Trump and Netanyahu believe that the US has no better friend/champion than Trump and Netanyahu.

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  5. Look at Iran's token response. It is a backward terrorist pariah State, they are not in a position to fight a superpower, and they know it. The leaders are just misappropriating religion to steal the oil wealth of the nation.

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  6. it is touching how you are devoted to trump - no matter how stupid he acts!

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  7. Why stupid? He has unmasked the weak Iran. They are cowards, scared to fight a strong opponent. He also eliminated the no. 1 rodef, who they cannot replace. This action will deter iran from its crazy behavior. At least for now.

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  8. see the videos I posted from a wide range of sources that reject yours and trumps evaluation

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  9. Sources _ this is not Halacha, it's political strategy. Yes there are always different opinions.

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  10. interesting definition of coward - bears no relationship to reality

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  11. interesting definition of coward - bears no relationship to reality

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  12. Yes, the same people who shoot to kill unarmed protestors in the street.

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  13. If Clinton was in power and she took such action , I'm sure you would support it.

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  14. In Iran they jail women for taking off their sheitels - is that something they would do in Meah Shearim?

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  15. a true navi
    so therefore you believe that I am not concerned with reality - a powerful argument based on your imagination

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  16. wow they must be over 100 years old - and they are still working!?

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  17. It seems to me - correct me if I am wrong - that your hatred for Trump exceeds any dislike you have/had for Rav Kamenetsky. In RSK's case, you have a wide range of halachic opinion to support you, whereas with trump, I have not yet seen you say a single good word for him.

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  18. you are wrong


    not saying a good word about a person of little personal accomplishments doesn't prove anything

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  19. So you think rsk is worse or they are 2 sides of the same coin?

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  20. I have something positive to say about O'bama - that he took down Bin Laden. I wasn't a great fan of his, but on that, I think he did the right thing.

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  21. First and second paragraph:
    President Adams in the 18th century sent the US Marines to Barbary Coast (Libya) . No Congressional approval. No declaration of war. And he was one of the Founding Fathers. So he knew what he was doing.

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  22. Don't get me wrong, since I fully support the POTUS's action in eliminating this terrorist. However the argument against your point, would be that President Adams lived before the "War Powers Resolution" was passed, and therefore the case in point is irrelevant.

    However if we look to the liberties taken by the Left's idol, Hussein Obama, despite the "War Powers Resolution", the Leftists should be hard pressed to explain their hypocrisy and double standard.

    The Obama administration oversaw armed drone attacks that killed almost 2,600 persons, excluding persons in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. Were these "acts of war"?

    Obama's position was that “determining whether a particular planned engagement constitutes a ‘war’ for constitutional purposes . . . requires a fact-specific assessment of the ‘anticipated nature, scope, and duration’ of the planned military operations [involving] prolonged and substantial military engagements.”

    By this “fact-specific assessment,” neither deploying troops to achieve regime change in Haiti nor flying over 2,300 sorties over Bosnia qualified as wars.

    President Obama bombed Libya’s air defenses and provided logistical support for NATO airstrikes in 2011, in an effort to secure regime change. The Libyan campaign consumed over a billion dollars, continued for six months, and contributed to overthrowing a government and murdering its leader. Were these "acts of war"?

    The Obama administration defended its actions, by declaring, “We’re not engaged in sustained fighting. There’s been no exchange of fire with hostile forces. We don’t have troops on the ground. We don’t risk casualties to these troops.”

    Two years later, Obama threatened to intervene in Syria over the regime’s use of poison gas against civilians. Though he later said that he would seek congressional authorization before acting, he continued to claim that he had “the authority to carry out this military action without specific congressional authorization.”

    A conversation can also be had about the "War Powers Resolution" is even constitutional.
    See discussion here:
    https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1074&context=jil
    The War Powers Resolution at 40: Still an Unconstitutional, Unnecessary, and Unwise Fraud that Contributed Directly to the 9/11 Attacks

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump taking up this issue, in his second term.

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  23. Very interesting. I was not aware Obama had used drones to kill 2600 people. That's a lot. From the reaction to Trump's taking out Soleimani, I would have assumed Obama had only used that on a handful of people. The hypocrisy is actually much larger.

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  24. THE ISSUE IS NOT AND NEVER WAS IF HE WAS EVIL
    but rather whether THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS JUSTIFIED IT

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  25. Did President Obama Order More Than 500 Drone Strikes?
    Snopes: True
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-drone-strikes/

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  26. there is cost in any warfare, unless you entirely crush the enemy. however, the case is not simply a question of cost vs benefit for taking action, it is also cost vs benefit of NOT taking action.

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  27. true and trump didn't do either analysis

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  28. Were you there with him and his advisers at the time and were they playing tiddlywinks instead of doing an analysis? Perhaps they made the decision on Nittel nacht, when they are not allowed to study , and play cards instead?

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  29. "and trump didn't do either analysis"
    What a ridiculous assertion.

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