IMPORTANT International Travel Advisory to All Draft-Age Girls With Israeli Citizenship - INCLUDING DUAL US/Foreign - ISRAELI CITIZENSHIP - Traveling to Israel:
In light of a harrowing experience of an American Bais Yaakov girl with DUAL US-Israeli citizenship last Thursday at the Tel HaShomer Draft Office, ALL religious girls - of whatever religious affiliation [Mizrachi; Dati-Leumi; Chardal; Modern Orthodox; Chareidi; et. al., and especially Sefardi] - should remember to secure their religious exemption from IDF military service by sending their "Tatzhir Dat" ("certification of religiosity") to the IDF by CERTIFIED MAIL. By NO means should a girl ever venture into any draft office IN PERSON, regardless of any "advice" to the contrary.
Important: A "Tatzhir Dat" (available through a Bais Din) is not to be confused with a "Rayon Dat" (a Test of Religiosity," see below), which is to be totally avoided. Additionally, make sure to obtain a full service "Exemption," not merely a (temporary) "Deferment."
Last Thursday, one particular American Bais Yaakov girl, as reported by an eyewitness, ignored warnings to avoid entering the Draft Office, naively thinking (like anyone who deal with government offices in western countries) that she'd be "in and out." Like other girls seeking an exemption, she entered the building alone, inasmuch as they don't even allow parents in. Additionally, on entering, the girl lost all contact with the outside world (cellphone reception was blocked).
After an unexpectedly long period of waiting outside, her mother started saying Tehillim for her. After a tense 45 minutes, the girl exited, drained and tense. Her mother was shocked to hear that that if she'd not been so adamant about her refusal to enlist, her Bais Yaakov Seminary daughter would have actually been enlisted in the IDF.
° We just received another eyewitness report today of a similar scenario narrowly averted this Monday (Aug. 12), outside the Draft Office on Rechov Rashi. A 20 y/o American (Bais Yaakov type- appearing) girl, whose family recently made Aliyah, almost walked right into the Lishkas HaGiyus, where should could have easily been arrested. Bereft of basic information, she was clearly naive about the process and the dangers of entering the Draft Office premises, initially thinking she'd be out in five minutes. When she was properly informed, she B"H took care of her exemption process without entering the building, by obtaining her Tatzhir Das to send it in by registered mail. (She didn't even know she needed to a have a credit card to pay the 55 shekel for the tatzir. B"H one of the volunteers helped her out.)
° On Tuesday, Aug. 13, a emergency call went out to come to the Lishkas haGiyus to demonstrate to help free yet another religious girl who entered the building and got stuck inside. B"H she was freed.
This all highlights the critical need to support the lifesaving work of the volunteer sentinels stationed outside some of the various draft offices. Moreover, who knows how many girls are being drafted - or arrested, incarcerated, physically and emotionally abused, and even broken - without us even knowing about it? This is literally a matter of pidyon shevuyim and haztolas nefashos.
For individual girls, following proper procedures should not be taken lightly, especially now that the government is becoming much more resistant to providing religious exemptions. Another draft-age girl, recently visiting Israel for Pesach, was reportedly compelled to expend much time and effort before Pesach, during Chol HaMoed, and after Pesach, all just to ensure she'd be allowed to leave Israel without being stopped due her draft status.
Unlike in the past, even the most religious background and appearance may not shield girls from extensive attempts to prevail on them to enlist in the IDF. Ever since 5773, the government has made it a goal to recruit religious girls into the IDF. Consequently, draft office personnel are well trained to employ all types of techniques to pressure or maneuver even fully religious girls into signing up.
°°°
IF IN TROUBLE:
If ever confronted with such a situation, some useful advice for girls being pressured to enlist in the IDF is:
(1) firmly provide an unwavering and unequivocal response ("NO, by no means whatsoever will I ever enlist, no matter what the consequences (pursuant to the psak din of Torah authorities from across the spectrum).");
(2) don't give any more information than the Tatzhir Dat process requires;
(3) cut off all further communications (this also helps avoid being harassed by the varied threats often employed to break girls' resistance);
(4) You're not legally obligated to agree to submit to a "Rayon Dat" - "Test of Religiosity," nor should you. It can (and frequently does) hurt exemption prospects immensely. It is often merely a tool to trip up girls and make them feel like phonies, to break their resistance.
(5) If you're ever in trouble, feel free to contact the Israeli organization "Shalhevet" for immediate assistance (free of charge):
For emergency assistance:
Shalhevet:
v: 03-958-4048 ext 2
Or 3192 * to leave a message
e: 6202300@gmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
information on Giyus Banos available online at the site of Chotam, an Israeli Dati Leumi organization:
Could be worse.
ReplyDelete#jamalkhashoggi
Chazal teach us, that sinning, which causes spiritual death, is worse than physical death
ReplyDeleteגדול המחטיאו יותר מן ההורגו
במדבר רבה (וילנא) פרשת פינחס פרשה כא
ר"ש אומר, מנין שהמחטיא את האדם יותר מן ההורגו, שההורג הורג בעולם הזה ויש לו חלק לעוה"ב, והמחטיא הורגו בעולם הזה ובעולם הבא
רש"י דברים פרק כג פסוק ט
שהמחטיא לאדם קשה לו מן ההורגו, שההורגו הורגו בעולם הזה, והמחטיאו מוציאו מן העולם הזה ומן העולם הבא
How about the genius Zohar on teshuva m'ahava. Converts the sins to mitzvas.
ReplyDeleteForced sins are exempted.
ReplyDeleteIf you had a way of avoiding the sin, and you neglected to do so, then you can't claim "duress".
ReplyDeleteI have no clue what your point is.
ReplyDelete"genius"? Zohar? Where? In context?
"teshuva m'ahava. Converts the sins to mitzvas."
An explicit gemara (Yoma 86b)
אמר ריש לקיש גדולה תשובה שזדונות נעשות לו כשגגות שנאמר (הושע יד, ב) שובה ישראל עד ה' אלהיך כי כשלת בעונך הא עון מזיד הוא וקא קרי ליה מכשול איני והאמר ריש לקיש גדולה תשובה שזדונות נעשות לו כזכיות שנאמר (יחזקאל לג, יט) ובשוב רשע מרשעתו ועשה משפט וצדקה עליהם (חיה) יחיה לא קשיא כאן מאהבה כאן מיראה
יומא פו ב
What's the relevance to this discussion?
you can lock yourself up in a cell, and avoid sin.
ReplyDeletevery relevant, since chazal also give the remedy
ReplyDeleteIf you understood the severity of sinning, you would agree that it's better to be locked up in a cell, and avoid sin, then to walk around free, and sin.
ReplyDelete"האומר אחטא ואשוב - אין מספיקין בידו לעשות תשובה"
ReplyDeleteChazal are teaching us that we can't rely on the institution of Teshuva in order to justify sinning "le'chatchila". If a person plans to sin, with the intent that he can do Teshuva after committing the sin, he will NOT succeed in doing Teshuva
who said it is a licence? Anyway, you just contradicted what you said earlier.
ReplyDeleteגדולה תשובה שזדונות נעשות לו כשגגות
I don't know if you are a rabbi, but if you were, you would not be my Rav, because you draw out the harshest, most extreme view from the texts, with an inability to see contradicting texts, and you gravitate to wards the worst scenarios - hence living in a cell. you must be crazy! did chazal ever recommend that too?
anyway, what are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteThis post is about girls avoiding the draft. The claim is that as soon as girls go into the army, they will be forced into znus, get pregnant and ahve abortions, and come out with tattoos and blue spikey hair.
Contrary to the myth, i have asked my cousins, who did serve, and they said it is not such an "exciting" place to be after all.
Your argumentation is so absurd, it is leading to the the denial of the Torah itself. I said that in fact, the Torah itself has the remedy to sin - look at Kain. And look a Devarim 30 - it is not in heaven - the Torah is talking about teshuva.
You totally missed by point.
ReplyDeleteYou're who insisted that going in and sinning isn't so terrible, since there's always Teshuva as a remedy.
I demonstrated from Chazal that that doesn't work.
Do you have a refutation of what I said?
You are clueless about what happens when a girl is taken out of her sheltered environment, and put under the command of people who don't share the same Torah values as herself.
ReplyDeleteI don't deny the power of Teshuva. In fact we pray to Hashem thrice daily, that He should help us do proper Teshuva.
However you have yet to demonstrate that one may rely on Teshuva as a license to intentionally sin le'chatchila.
Don't put words Into my keyboard! A) I didn't say what you fictionalised.
ReplyDeleteB) Joe already said if it's forced it's not your fault.
C) being drafted is not equivalent to intentional sinning. D) sinning is all relative. For berel, being in the army is the worst possible sin, even if one observes the shulchan Aruch. What guaranteed sins are you talking about that all hareidi girls do in the army?
E) if they refuse to serve, they go to military prison. I'm sure you like that option
F) if anyone, anywhere sins, teshuva is the guaranteed remedy.
G) you are quick to point out that a talmid chacham who sins, does teshuba the next day.
H) hypocrite.
"If you understood the severity of sinning"
ReplyDeleteI prefer the approach of the netziv or the Or sameach on halacha.
The Netziv said, for example, that astrology was assur (as per the Rambam) when we had neviim, but since we no longer have them, we can do astrology! Perhaps that's what goes on in the army, who knows!
The Or sameach gives a revolutionary interpretation of Gan Eden. The usual focus is on the sin, ie not to eat of the tree. In the Meshech Chochmah , he teaches that it also says of all the trees you shall eat, except the tree of knowledge. The positive mitzvah is to eat from the permitted trees, of which there are many. These trees help us avoid the sin of the tree of knowledge.
As i've said before, you mindset is shackled , and staying in the "cell" seems to be the solution. The Meshech Chochma wants to free us from these mental and halachic prisons. I personally hold him to be gretaer than all his peers, even gretaer than rav Kook.
you are on the one hand saying that the IDF morlocks will come and get you whatever you do, and palce you in forced prostitution, and on the otehr hand you are saying that this is all avoidable, just click your fingers and the morlocks will go away.
ReplyDeleteJoe is saying that if they force you into sin, you are exempt. your whole argument is absurd.
They will catch some people, and they willnot necessarily sin. If they are forced to sin, like you claim, then they are exempt ebcasue of oness. have you forgotten the Esther story?
Your approach is similar to sabbatai zvi. For regular Jews, there is no teshuva, for "talmidei chachamim" (or sabbateans) there is no sin. Like the Dayan who did adultery, there was no sin, as he did teshuva the following morning.
ReplyDeleteWhat a big deal some chareidim make about the army.
ReplyDeleteOf course, things were much better in the days of the pogroms, chilmnecki, the Nazi's, the blood libels etc. Isn't that truly what you sick people want to go back to?
Whoever manufactured this idiotic post must be a complete idiot. It describes a terrible case of 1 Girl spending 45 minutes in a bureaucratic office and then leaving. She wasn't raped or molested the way the cossacks used to do.
ReplyDeleteThe idiot author of this article is on the one hand defaming the idf which protects the lives of millions of Jews and Israel, and most likely would defend people like litzman who protect the real molesters in the Orthodox community.
This is the kind of hypocrisy and two-facedness that was responsible for destroying the temple.
\You are unhinged and irrational.
ReplyDeleteGood bye.
Says the prison warder , who wants to lock everyone up.
ReplyDeleteMore of the same rubbish from you. Keep it up, you're showing that you're as mad some of the others who lurk here.
ReplyDeleteYesterday, I drafted a point by point response to your A-G points.
If you paid attention, you might actually end up learn some Torah, and be able to understand a world that's so close, yet so very foreign to you.
But when you're unhinged, and resort to name calling, that's the time to say adiós.
Unhinged... lol
ReplyDelete"Yesterday, I drafted a point by point response to your A-G points.
ReplyDeleteIf you paid attention, you might actually end up learn some Torah, and be able to understand a world that's so close, yet so very foreign to you."
Not seen any response, hence unable to pay attention or learn.
The words of the Torah are more precious than pearls (Proverbs 3:15), and I will not cast them before someone who mocks them.
ReplyDeleteNow you are unhinged / there are no words of Torah in the post, just a cockamamie story about someone who spent 45 minutes in a gius office. I remember spending 4 - 5 hours in misrad hapnim, and other such offices.
ReplyDeleteSo your arguments are so good, you are afraid to publicize them 😝
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5QS4-_XkUw
ReplyDelete"If you understood the severity of sinning, you would agree that it's
ReplyDeletebetter to be locked up in a cell, and avoid sin, then to walk around
free, and sin."
The Talmud in Sotah speaks about "makkot perushin" and how they destroy the world. It is precisely this type of religiosity that you and many others adhere to, a.k.a chasid shoteh. Be frum tot he point where it kills you, destroys you, and your family.
More name calling...
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2014/05/religion-and-psychology-saving-suicidal.html
תשובות והנהגות כרך א סימן תעו
שאלה: יהודי תפוס בבית סוהר האם להשתדל להוציאו משם אף שיעבור בזה על איסור נדה באשתו
שמעתי ממקור מוסמך שביקשו מרבינו החזו"א זצ"ל להשתדל ולפעול עבור אחד שנידון למאסר לזמן ארוך, ושאל האם הוא שומר על טהרת המשפחה, והשיבו לו שלא שומר ונסתלק ולא רצה לעסוק בשחרורו, וראויים הדברים לגאון בישראל כמותו!
וכיוצא בו אני נוהג בעזהשי"ת כשמבקשים ממני לסדר שלום בית אצל חפשיים אני נמנע כיון שמסייע בזה לעבור על איסור נדה, וכבר דרשו חז"ל (שבועות מז ב) לא תנאף לא תנאיף לא לסייע לניאוף.
ויש להטעים הדבר שבעצם במ"ע קיימא לן (כתובות פו ב) מכין אותו עד שתצא נפשו, ופירשו המפרשים דלפני שעבר גם על ל"ת כופין עד שתצא נפשו למונעו, (עיין בר"ן חולין קל"ב: דגם בל"ת קודם שעבר מכין אותו עד שתצא נפשו כדי שלא יעבור, וכן פשיטא ליה לרע"א בחידושי כתובות פ"ו. דגם בל"ת אמרינן הך דינא דכופין אותו ומיהו הרמב"ן בשיר השירים ד', י"א כתב דרק במצות עשה כופין דחמיר מל"ת ומכין אותו עד שתצא נפשו, משא"כ בל"ת. וכ"נ בקצוה"ח סי' ג' סק"ב במשובב שם). ואם כן כאן אף שסובל במאסר, הלוא ראוי לו לסבול כן שמונעים אותו בכך לעבור על איסורי כרת דנדה שדינו כעריות.
ולפי זה בנידון דידן אף שגזרו עליו מאסר חמש שנים אין אנו מצווין להשתדל לשחררו, ולהיפך טוב שישב שמה ולא יעבור תדיר על איסור כרת ר"ל, ואם היתה השאלה באה לפני בי"ד כשידינו תקיפה, היו כופין אותו בכהאי גוונא אם אינו רוצה לשמוע, שהיו סוגרין אותו בחדר שלא יבוא לידי עבירה.
name calling? Oh, you don't like that part of the Talmud?
ReplyDeletewho is the author of this book?
ReplyDeleteThe Lubavitcher Rebbe, and Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky were both asked the same question - is it better for a man to intermarry (where there is no issur of Nidda) or to marry within the faith, even though he is secular, and will not observe taharat hamishpacha. They both gave the same answer, (i don't think it was the same questioner). They said even though the issur of nidda is severe, the bigger picture of intermarriage is more severe, and it is better to not assimilate or intermarry.
ReplyDeleteThey were gedolim of the previous generation, and they knew how to balance halacha and look at the bigger picture. But if you are an Eidah person, then that is how your cookie crumbles, good for you.
In a separate Teshuva, R' Sterbuch wrote:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/RSternbuch_KiruvNonJew_Aug07_eng.pdf
"Another basis of concern is that I see this as a violation of following non-Jewish practices (chukas akum). These rabbis are showing mercy to the Jewish father by a de-facto acknowledgment of the non-Jewish concept of patrilineal descent. According to the unanimously held Torah view - any person with a non-Jewish mother is completely non-Jewish. Also the gratuitous granting of Jewish status and benefits to this non-Jewish child violates the Torah prohibition of Lo Techanem."
Lo Techanem is specifically for the nations in Eretz Yisroel. The Netziv oppsoed heter mechira for this reason, i.e. it would violate Lo techanem, and he said if the food shortage is so severe, we might be able to override Shemitta altogether.
Now, I see a stira R' Sternbuch's approach. On one hand, he sees even giving educational benefit to non halachically Jewish people is lo techanem, on the other, he wishes to de-establish the State of israel, and this would automatically hand it to the Palestinians and Iranians/Hamas/Hezbollah. Of course, in this matter, he brushes over the severe aveira of Lo Techanem, as do all the axis of satmar/NK/brisk/Mucnaz etc.
How being frum can seriously affect your health:
ReplyDeleteתלמוד ירושלמי (וילנא) מסכת שבת פרק א
תנא ר' יהושע אונייא תלמידי ב"ש עמדו להן מלמטה והיו הורגין בתלמידי ב"ה.
IR: You're who insisted that going in and sinning isn't so terrible, since there's always Teshuva as a remedy.
ReplyDeleteKA: if they are pressganged and enlisted, should they sin, they can do teshuva. But they could sin in seminaries, speak loshon hara and other matters. Perhaps there are berlands lurking in their frum environment.
Hareidah do not own the Torah nor do they have have the sole Monopoly on teshuva
Nice teshuva from the Rema
ReplyDeletehttps://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/09/truth-lies-parameters-and-balance.html
this context I present the translation
of the Rema (#11). As far as I know the ruling of the Rema was not
accepted and is not cited with approval by anyone else. It is the
thinking, however, of one our major poskim and illustrates how important
community peace is.
Rema (#11): Concerning
the matter of justifying slander in order to obtain peace in the
community. Yevamos (65b): “R’ Eliezer said that it is permitted to cause
a misunderstanding (lie) for the sake of peace… R’ Nosson said that it
is a mitzva… The School of R’ Yishmael said that peace is so important
that even G d created a misunderstanding (lied) for the sake of peace.”
…We learn from these sources that it is permitted to lie for the sake of
peace and it is permitted to violate the prohibition of saying lies
(Shemos 23:7). It is even permitted to transgress the prohibition of
erasing G d’s name (Devarim 12:4) [for the sake of making peace between
husband and wife in the case of sotah.] as is stated in the Sifre… It
follows from this that one can also violate the prohibition of slander.
In other words it is permitted to violate the prohibition of slander if
his motivation is for the sake of heaven and it serves a good purpose in
making peace. This is learned from Nazir (23b) Greater is a sin done
for the sake of heaven than a mitzva which is done for ulterior
motivation as we learned from the incident with Yael [in which she had
sexual relations with the enemy general Sisra in order to kill him].
This is learned logically from the case of Sotah where the Torah says to
transgress the prohibition of erasing G d’s name in order to bring
about peace between a man and his wife. So surely it is permitted to
transgress the prohibition of slander in order to bring about peace
amongst Jews who are widely scattered and only a small minority are
observant of Torah and mitzvos. Thus it is a case of “ais la’aso” (a
time to do for G d even to go so far as nullifying the Torah) (Tehilim
119:126) – in order to bring about peace amongst Jews and to eliminate
disputes and disunity and to remove the stumbling block from our people.
Consequently if transgressing a Torah prohibition is permitted to make
peace between man and wife it is surely permitted to make it between
family members and within the community. […] So it is with the case
before us. Even though you might say that it is better that the
condition of the country deteriorate rather than subjecting an innocent
person to ridicule and degradation by slandering him for something he
didn’t do and surely this particular individual who is more
distinguished than 100 community leaders…, nevertheless it seems to me
that even so we should not deviate at all from this approach. That is
because we must distinguish this case from the case of handing an
innocent person to the enemy to be killed or violated in order to save
the community which is prohibited. But subjecting him to slander is not
so serious and it is permitted… We have thus proven that it is permitted
to slander an innocent person for the sake of making community peace…
It is also important to note that I have never seen a worse community
situation than the present case…
This slandering of the innocent is a regular game played by rabbonim, in particular of the chareidi persuasion .
ReplyDeleteThe easy targets include Rav kook, Rav soloveitchik, and Rav Goren.
It's for internal consumption, creating an illusion of unity and superiority in the attacker's world.