Why are there no more Gedolim? Why are there drop outs from yeshivas? It seems to me that yeshivas don't know how to teach gemara. They throw you in the deep end, and just rely on some being able to follow. Or they train people to be parrots , repeating what the other guy said.
I'm sympathetic to your argument, but it need be acknowledged that what you describe is, from most available evidence, no change from what's been practiced traditionally. (I.e., it's not like there was some approach, now lost, that produced gedolim in times of yore. And it seems as well that the same place that served those future leaders ministered also to the "at-risk" youth.)
No, the pilpulistic style of gemara learning which is now considered the norm was not historically the norm. Intellectually honest boys who fail to warp their minds by adopting the pilpulistic style remain on the outside and often become disillusioned.
Not true re the Litvish world. I hyperlinked to evidence. Germany had yeshivos that actually predated the 19th Lithuanian movement, and they were less narrow, for sure, but the Yeshiva world of today doesn't appeal to that history, so is a moot point.
There are gedolim. Provided they conform to the prevailing opinions. And went to the right yeshivas. And most important, have a PR agent (usually a talmid student, though some are pretty capable PR agents themselves.)
Why are there no more Gedolim?
ReplyDeleteWhy are there drop outs from yeshivas?
It seems to me that yeshivas don't know how to teach gemara. They throw you in the deep end, and just rely on some being able to follow. Or they train people to be parrots , repeating what the other guy said.
Eddie I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteI'm sympathetic to your argument, but it need be acknowledged that what you describe is, from most available evidence, no change from what's been practiced traditionally. (I.e., it's not like there was some approach, now lost, that produced gedolim in times of yore. And it seems as well that the same place that served those future leaders ministered also to the "at-risk" youth.)
ReplyDeleteNo, the pilpulistic style of gemara learning which is now considered the norm was not historically the norm. Intellectually honest boys who fail to warp their minds by adopting the pilpulistic style remain on the outside and often become disillusioned.
ReplyDeleteperhaps if someone's father was a Rav, and they learned mishnayot on his father's knee, then it will all seem a bit more natural.
ReplyDeleteNot true re the Litvish world. I hyperlinked to evidence. Germany had yeshivos that actually predated the 19th Lithuanian movement, and they were less narrow, for sure, but the Yeshiva world of today doesn't appeal to that history, so is a moot point.
ReplyDeleteThere are gedolim. Provided they conform to the prevailing opinions. And went to the right yeshivas. And most important, have a PR agent (usually a talmid student, though some are pretty capable PR agents themselves.)
ReplyDelete