Can you fund more info on this? https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1350067/yerushalayim-beis-din-holds-get-prenup-nullified.html
The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/01/14/hottest/
My understanding is that Gehinom is a place where a person feels distanced from G-d. Now, here on Earth, say a person can tell right from wrong. And they realize there is a wrong being done. And they remain "neutral". What have they demonstrated by their neutrality? They are effectively distancing themselves from G-d. Because they had an opportunity to stand with G-d and they declined to do it. They put themselves in a position of --- on Earth.
Wow : “However, a prenup is not encouraged by poskim in Eretz Yisrael, and in many cases, a mesader keddushin will not marry a couple that has signed a prenup, unlike in many Orthodox circles in the Diaspora. The Jerusalem District Beis Din decided in the matter of a ‘get’ that the bill of divorce would not be issued until such time portions of the prenup, which deal with the assets of both bridge and groom, are invalidated.”
I live in Israel, in Bnei Brak. The American poskim follow too much the radical feminists. American poskim [Kamenitsky Greenblatt …] support Tamar is free and can marry her boyfriend while her husband Aharon Friedman refuses Tamar a get. American poskim [Schachter…] support Mendel Epstein et al. Here in Israel, life is normal. Men marry women and make a commitment to each other and have children and have love and respect to each other and raise large families and stay married. What’s happening in treifa America ???
Yes, but only if know the story or the subject very well. There are lots of people who easily get wound up after hearing someone's take about a moral crisis, and the next day they hear the other side and they get all wound up to the opposite position.
Such people must first learn to have a level head. Only after that can they work on being a person who takes a stand for the truth.
Not normal. When I wrote to my Congressman years ago about the policy regarding allowing homosexuals in the U.S. military, I think the first argument he responded with is that the IDF has a policy to allow it. Ditto arguments are being made by some in regard to "transgenders" in the military. What happened to the directive to keep the camp holy?
If it is true that the fire of the netherworld is reserved for those neutral in times of moral crisis, what moral crisis exists today? The great moral crisis today is the "rabbis" who have decided they are greater than the Shulchan Aruch and the opinions of great rabbis back to the Rishonim. Not long ago we had a trial in Trenton New Jersey of Orthodox people, including a Rosh Yeshiva from Monsey and other people known in their communities are prominent "rabbis," of people who were kidnapping Orthodox husbands who would not give their wife a GET, (something permitted and demanded by Halacha in many cases), then they would torture the husbands hideously until they agreed to give a GET and say it was given willingly. These GETS are worthless and the women marrying with them are having babies mamzerim. The style of "rabbis" to demonize men and tell women to force a GET by going to secular court or by more primitive forcing like ORA is making more and more mamzerim. One day these mamzerim will grow up and want to go to Yeshiva. Today increasingly women are simply told to leave their husbands with no GET and remarry. Such is the work of the Philadelphia Kaminetskies, who are reshoim gemurim, but most people don't like to do anything about it. And those who help these reshoim gemurim have a special room in the hot place. I mean Dovid Feinstein whose "beth din" hasn't gotten around to telling Tamar to leave her boyfriend because she is married to somebody else and has no GET. I mean Hillel David who told me that the Beth Din's decision that nobody knows about is not my business, as it was made for Shmuel Kaminetsky. Why? He needed them to repair his destroyed reputation when the senior rabbis attacked his lies and hideous hurting of Aharon Friedman so that Tamar could remarry with no GET. Everyone other than Dovid Feinstein and Hillel David knows that the Kaminetsky ideas are pure treifeh, and whoever encourages these horrors to become the public "Gedolim" will answer in another world.
Well said: “The great moral crisis today is the "rabbis" who have decided they are greater than the Shulchan Aruch and the opinions of great rabbis back to the Rishonim.”
There is a moral crisis in America---Torah is no more in treifa America !!!! Givalt!! Elders of America: put dust on your heads, gird yourselves with sackcloth, and bow your heads to the ground. Better, make aliya to Israel.
“The Lord resolved to destroy The wall of Fair Zion; He measured with a line, refrained not From bringing destruction. He has made wall and rampart to mourn, Together they languish. Her gates have sunk into the ground, He has smashed her bars to bits; Her king and her leaders are in exile, Instruction [Torah] is no more; Her prophets, too, receive No vision from the Lord. Silent sit on the ground The elders of Fair Zion; They have strewn dust on their heads And girded themselves with sackcloth; The maidens of Jerusalem have bowed Their heads to the ground.” (Lamentations 2:8-10) איכה פרק ב (ח) חָשַׁב יְקֹוָק לְהַשְׁחִית חוֹמַת בַּת צִיּוֹן נָטָה קָו לֹא הֵשִׁיב יָדוֹ מִבַּלֵּעַ וַיַּאֲבֶל חֵל וְחוֹמָה יַחְדָּו אֻמְלָלוּ: (ט) טָבְעוּ בָאָרֶץ שְׁעָרֶיהָ אִבַּד וְשִׁבַּר בְּרִיחֶיהָ מַלְכָּהּ וְשָׂרֶיהָ בַגּוֹיִם אֵין תּוֹרָה גַּם נְבִיאֶיהָ לֹא מָצְאוּ חָזוֹן מֵיְקֹוָק: (י) יֵשְׁבוּ לָאָרֶץ יִדְּמוּ זִקְנֵי בַת צִיּוֹן הֶעֱלוּ עָפָר עַל רֹאשָׁם חָגְרוּ שַׂקִּים הוֹרִידוּ לָאָרֶץ רֹאשָׁן בְּתוּלֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם: פסיקתא זוטרתא (לקח טוב) איכה פרק ב סימן ט טבעו בארץ שעריה. זה שאמר הכתוב (זכריה יא, א) פתח לבנון דלתיך ותאכל אש בארזיך, כיון שטבעו בארץ שעריה מיד ידעו האומות שנתן רשות להשחית: מלכה ושריה בגוים אין תורה. אין תורת מלכות ותורת שרים נוהגין בהם, אלא ראיתי עבדים על סוסים ושרים הולכים כעבדים על הארץ, שהרי יכניה היה בבית האסורים ושריה משרתים למלך אשור: ס"א מלכה ושריה. מלכות ישראל ושריה בין האומות עד שלא קבלו התורה: דבר אחר אין תורה. אין יכולין ישראל לקיימה בין האומות, וכן הוא אומר (לעיל א, ז) שחקו על משבתיה, כמה גזירות גזרו על ישראל שלא יקיימו את התורה: גם נביאיה לא מצאו חזון מיי'. אלו נביאי השקר לא מצאו חזון מיום שגלו.
Joseph Orlow asks “What happened to the directive to keep the camp holy?”
“Since the Lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you, let your camp be holy; let Him not find anything unseemly among you and turn away from you” (Deuteronomy 23:15). There’s a moral crisis in America and not in Israel. The angry wives who pay Mendel Epstein et al for a kangaroo court to authorize beating their recalcitrant husbands, claim פיקוח נפש life threatening, he’s a wife beater etc.
The Torah says: “If a man is found to have kidnapped a fellow Israelite, enslaving him or selling him, that kidnapper shall die; thus you will sweep out evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 24:7).
The radical feminists bring false charges of wife beating to get sympathy from the public. Maybe some of these charges of wife beating are true. I don’t know.
I see little remorse from Mendel Epstein et al and little from his supporters, including famous rabbis, other than Mendel Epstein et al got caught. Mendel Epstein et al has a deadline this Friday to request a rehearing. On what basis? My suggestion: admit they erred. All their activities were wrong wrong wrong.
"People of Aida refugee camp, we are the occupation forces. You throw stones, and we will hit you with gas until you all die. The children, the youth, the old people -- you will all die. We won't leave any of you alive. We have arrested one of you. He is with us now. We took him from his home, and we will slaughter and kill him while you watch if you keep throwing stones. Go home or we will gas you until you die. Your families, your children, everyone -- we will kill you." Announcement by Israeli border police at the Aida refugee camp.
Pacer September 8, 2017: The government contended that the real purpose of the conspiracy was mercenary, but the defense was prevented from explaining to the jury that any such purpose would have been defeated by securing gittin that were compelled (meaning, against the husband’s will), as a consent that was compelled would not be recognized by the Orthodox as valid and were thus worthless. The excluded evidence could therefore have given rise to a reasonable doubt whether defendant harbored the required specific intent. Despite having allowed similar evidence when presented by the government, the district court prevented Rabbi Epstein and his co-defendants from showing the jury why there was, at the least, reasonable doubt about their intent to commit the crime they were convicted for conspiring to commit. …There is no denying that the defendants here at least professed that they “acted for a religious purpose.” It is an element of federal kidnapping that the offense have been committed (or here, agreed to be committed) “for ransom, reward or otherwise.” 18 U.S.C. § 1201(a). [footnote 3] The government’s attempts to insinuate a financial motive made the religious evidence all the more relevant and essential to the defense.
Yes consent that was compelled makes the get pasul, leading poskim would agree, in most cases. All the ORA activities has the main goal freeing agunot and preventing abuse, see https://www.getora.org/ Mendel Epstein et al, too, were primarily motivated to free agunot and to prevent abuse. The $60,000 payment to Mendel Epstein to assault Aharon Friedman and similar was incidental for expenses, to show that the angry wife and her supporters are serious etc.
Mendel Epstein et al has a good argument here. Mendel Epstein et al are innocent of kidnaping conspiracy. No ransom, no reward, nothing similar.
Mendel Epstein et al are innocent of kidnaping conspiracy. Mendel Epstein et al were following ORA. Mendel Epstein et al were 100% ORA
ORA needs to be on trial including all rabbinic endorsements, see https://www.getora.org/rabbinic-endorsements
"I add my name to Rav Gedalia Dov Schwartz shlita and Rav Hershel Schachter shlita in support of ORA - the Organization for the Resolution of Agunot. I also have only positive experiences to report about ORA. I join Rav Schwartz and Rav Schachter's call to all members of the Jewish community to support ORA." -Rabbi Howard Jachter Dayan, Beth Din of Elizabeth Rebbe, Torah Academy of Bergen County The Torah says: “If a man is found to have kidnapped a fellow Israelite, enslaving him or selling him, that kidnapper shall die; thus you will sweep out evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 24:7). The crime of kidnapping requires a monetary intent. ORA activities have no monetary intent. It costs them money to free agunot and to prevent abuse. The angry wives have no monetary intent on their demands for the get. They would give all their money for the get. The angry wives don’t care about money. The recalcitrant husbands have monetary objectives to get better terms in the settlement.
דברים פרק כד פסוק ז כִּי יִמָּצֵא אִישׁ גֹּנֵב נֶפֶשׁ מֵאֶחָיו מִבְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל וְהִתְעַמֶּר בּוֹ וּמְכָרוֹ וּמֵת הַגַּנָּב הַהוּא וּבִעַרְתָּ הָרָע מִקִּרְבֶּךָ: רש"י דברים פרשת כי תצא פרק כד פסוק ז כי ימצא - בעדים והתראה.ד וכן כל כי ימצא שבתורה: והתעמר בו - אינו חייב עד שישתמש בו: Sanhedrin 85b Mishnah. He who kidnaps a Jew [lit., a soul of Israel] incurs no liability unless he brings him into his own domain. R. Judah said: Unless he brings him into his own domain and puts him to service. for it is written, “If a man is found to have kidnapped a fellow Israelite, enslaving him or selling him, that kidnapper shall die; thus you will sweep out evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 24:7). If he abducts his own son. R. Ishmael the son of R. Johanan b. Beroka declared him liable, but the sages exempted him. If he kidnapped a semi-slave and semi-freeman [e.g., if he had belonged to two masters, one of whom had manumitted him.], R. Judah declares him liable, but the sages acquit [him].
The law is as R. Judah said: Unless he brings him into his own domain and puts him to service. The recalcitrant husband is the victim of the kidnapping. The kidnapper incurs liability if the kidnapper “puts him to service.” Getting the victim to agree to the get may well be “puts him to service.”
No. Getting the victim recalcitrant husband to agree to the get does not enslave him and does not puts him to service. Judge Judge Jane Roth page 37 in Pacer: “In relevant part, the federal kidnapping statute requires that the kidnapping be committed “for ransom or reward or otherwise . . ..”63 The District Court properly read this language as encompassing a broad set of potential motives, including the religious benefit of performing a mitzvah, while reasoning, however, “that religious motivation simply cannot negate the intent to commit a crime.” We agree that a religious benefit can constitute a “benefit” under the statute.” I quote Wikipedia on jury nullification : Jury nullification is a concept where members of a trial jury can vote a defendant not guilty if they do not support a government's law, do not believe it is constitutional or humane, or do not support a possible punishment for breaking a government's law. This may happen in both civil and criminal trials.
ORA and agunahinternational etc do this !!! They shout it’s not humane to withhold the get!
Can you fund more info on this? https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1350067/yerushalayim-beis-din-holds-get-prenup-nullified.html
ReplyDeleteThe Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
ReplyDeletehttps://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/01/14/hottest/
My understanding is that Gehinom is a place where a person feels distanced from G-d. Now, here on Earth, say a person can tell right from wrong. And they realize there is a wrong being done. And they remain "neutral". What have they demonstrated by their neutrality? They are effectively distancing themselves from G-d. Because they had an opportunity to stand with G-d and they declined to do it. They put themselves in a position of --- on Earth.
ReplyDeleteI read
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1350067/yerushalayim-beis-din-holds-get-prenup-nullified.html
Wow : “However, a prenup is not encouraged by poskim in Eretz Yisrael, and in many cases, a mesader keddushin will not marry a couple that has signed a prenup, unlike in many Orthodox circles in the Diaspora. The Jerusalem District Beis Din decided in the matter of a ‘get’ that the bill of divorce would not be issued until such time portions of the prenup, which deal with the assets of both bridge and groom, are invalidated.”
I live in Israel, in Bnei Brak. The American poskim follow too much the radical feminists. American poskim [Kamenitsky Greenblatt …] support Tamar is free and can marry her boyfriend while her husband Aharon Friedman refuses Tamar a get. American poskim [Schachter…] support Mendel Epstein et al. Here in Israel, life is normal. Men marry women and make a commitment to each other and have children and have love and respect to each other and raise large families and stay married. What’s happening in treifa America ???
Yes, but only if know the story or the subject very well. There are lots of people who easily get wound up after hearing someone's take about a moral crisis, and the next day they hear the other side and they get all wound up to the opposite position.
ReplyDeleteSuch people must first learn to have a level head. Only after that can they work on being a person who takes a stand for the truth.
Not normal. When I wrote to my Congressman years ago about the policy regarding allowing homosexuals in the U.S. military, I think the first argument he responded with is that the IDF has a policy to allow it. Ditto arguments are being made by some in regard to "transgenders" in the military. What happened to the directive to keep the camp holy?
ReplyDeleteIf it is true that the fire of the netherworld is reserved for those neutral in times of moral crisis, what moral crisis exists today? The great moral crisis today is the "rabbis" who have decided they are greater than the Shulchan Aruch and the opinions of great rabbis back to the Rishonim. Not long ago we had a trial in Trenton New Jersey of Orthodox people, including a Rosh Yeshiva from Monsey and other people known in their communities are prominent "rabbis," of people who were kidnapping Orthodox husbands who would not give their wife a GET, (something permitted and demanded by Halacha in many cases), then they would torture the husbands hideously until they agreed to give a GET and say it was given willingly. These GETS are worthless and the women marrying with them are having babies mamzerim. The style of "rabbis" to demonize men and tell women to force a GET by going to secular court or by more primitive forcing like ORA is making more and more mamzerim. One day these mamzerim will grow up and want to go to Yeshiva. Today increasingly women are simply told to leave their husbands with no GET and remarry. Such is the work of the Philadelphia Kaminetskies, who are reshoim gemurim, but most people don't like to do anything about it. And those who help these reshoim gemurim have a special room in the hot place. I mean Dovid Feinstein whose "beth din" hasn't gotten around to telling Tamar to leave her boyfriend because she is married to somebody else and has no GET. I mean Hillel David who told me that the Beth Din's decision that nobody knows about is not my business, as it was made for Shmuel Kaminetsky. Why? He needed them to repair his destroyed reputation when the senior rabbis attacked his lies and hideous hurting of Aharon Friedman so that Tamar could remarry with no GET. Everyone other than Dovid Feinstein and Hillel David knows that the Kaminetsky ideas are pure treifeh, and whoever encourages these horrors to become the public "Gedolim" will answer in another world.
ReplyDeleteWell said: “The great moral crisis today is the "rabbis" who have decided they are greater than the Shulchan Aruch and the opinions of great rabbis back to the Rishonim.”
ReplyDeleteThere is a moral crisis in America---Torah is no more in treifa America !!!! Givalt!! Elders of America: put dust on your heads, gird yourselves with sackcloth, and bow your heads to the ground. Better, make aliya to Israel.
“The Lord resolved to destroy The wall of Fair Zion; He measured with a line, refrained not From bringing destruction. He has made wall and rampart to mourn, Together they languish. Her gates have sunk into the ground, He has smashed her bars to bits;
Her king and her leaders are in exile, Instruction [Torah] is no more; Her prophets, too, receive No vision from the Lord. Silent sit on the ground The elders of Fair Zion;
They have strewn dust on their heads And girded themselves with sackcloth;
The maidens of Jerusalem have bowed Their heads to the ground.” (Lamentations 2:8-10)
איכה פרק ב
(ח) חָשַׁב יְקֹוָק לְהַשְׁחִית חוֹמַת בַּת צִיּוֹן נָטָה קָו לֹא הֵשִׁיב יָדוֹ מִבַּלֵּעַ וַיַּאֲבֶל חֵל וְחוֹמָה יַחְדָּו אֻמְלָלוּ:
(ט) טָבְעוּ בָאָרֶץ שְׁעָרֶיהָ אִבַּד וְשִׁבַּר בְּרִיחֶיהָ מַלְכָּהּ וְשָׂרֶיהָ בַגּוֹיִם אֵין תּוֹרָה גַּם נְבִיאֶיהָ לֹא מָצְאוּ חָזוֹן מֵיְקֹוָק:
(י) יֵשְׁבוּ לָאָרֶץ יִדְּמוּ זִקְנֵי בַת צִיּוֹן הֶעֱלוּ עָפָר עַל רֹאשָׁם חָגְרוּ שַׂקִּים הוֹרִידוּ לָאָרֶץ רֹאשָׁן בְּתוּלֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם:
פסיקתא זוטרתא (לקח טוב) איכה פרק ב סימן ט
טבעו בארץ שעריה. זה שאמר הכתוב (זכריה יא, א) פתח לבנון דלתיך ותאכל אש בארזיך, כיון שטבעו בארץ שעריה מיד ידעו האומות שנתן רשות להשחית: מלכה ושריה בגוים אין תורה. אין תורת מלכות ותורת שרים נוהגין בהם, אלא ראיתי עבדים על סוסים ושרים הולכים כעבדים על הארץ, שהרי יכניה היה בבית האסורים ושריה משרתים למלך אשור: ס"א מלכה ושריה. מלכות ישראל ושריה בין האומות עד שלא קבלו התורה: דבר אחר אין תורה. אין יכולין ישראל לקיימה בין האומות, וכן הוא אומר (לעיל א, ז) שחקו על משבתיה, כמה גזירות גזרו על ישראל שלא יקיימו את התורה: גם נביאיה לא מצאו חזון מיי'. אלו נביאי השקר לא מצאו חזון מיום שגלו.
Joseph Orlow asks “What happened to the directive to keep the camp holy?”
ReplyDelete“Since the Lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you, let your camp be holy; let Him not find anything unseemly among you and turn away from you” (Deuteronomy 23:15).
There’s a moral crisis in America and not in Israel.
The angry wives who pay Mendel Epstein et al for a kangaroo court to authorize beating their recalcitrant husbands, claim פיקוח נפש life threatening, he’s a wife beater etc.
The Torah says: “If a man is found to have kidnapped a fellow Israelite, enslaving him or selling him, that kidnapper shall die; thus you will sweep out evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 24:7).
The radical feminists bring false charges of wife beating to get sympathy from the public. Maybe some of these charges of wife beating are true. I don’t know.
I see little remorse from Mendel Epstein et al and little from his supporters, including famous rabbis, other than Mendel Epstein et al got caught. Mendel Epstein et al has a deadline this Friday to request a rehearing. On what basis? My suggestion: admit they erred. All their activities were wrong wrong wrong.
For example, why are you silent about this?
ReplyDelete"People of Aida refugee camp, we are the occupation forces. You throw stones, and we will hit you with gas until you all die. The children, the youth, the old people -- you will all die. We won't leave any of you alive. We have arrested one of you. He is with us now. We took him from his home, and we will slaughter and kill him while you watch if you keep throwing stones. Go home or we will gas you until you die. Your families, your children, everyone -- we will kill you." Announcement by Israeli border police at the Aida refugee camp.
Pacer September 8, 2017:
ReplyDeleteThe government contended that the real purpose of the conspiracy was mercenary, but the defense was prevented from explaining to the jury that any such purpose would have been defeated by securing gittin that were compelled (meaning, against the husband’s
will), as a consent that was compelled would not be recognized by the Orthodox as
valid and were thus worthless. The excluded evidence could therefore have given
rise to a reasonable doubt whether defendant harbored the required specific intent. Despite having allowed similar evidence when presented by the government,
the district court prevented Rabbi Epstein and his co-defendants from showing the
jury why there was, at the least, reasonable doubt about their intent to commit the
crime they were convicted for conspiring to commit.
…There is no denying that the defendants here at least professed that they
“acted for a religious purpose.” It is an element of federal kidnapping that the
offense have been committed (or here, agreed to be committed) “for ransom,
reward or otherwise.” 18 U.S.C. § 1201(a). [footnote 3] The government’s attempts to insinuate a financial motive made the religious evidence all the more relevant and essential to the defense.
Yes consent that was compelled makes the get pasul, leading poskim would agree, in most cases.
All the ORA activities has the main goal freeing agunot and preventing abuse, see https://www.getora.org/
Mendel Epstein et al, too, were primarily motivated to free agunot and to prevent abuse. The $60,000 payment to Mendel Epstein to assault Aharon Friedman and similar was incidental for expenses, to show that the angry wife and her supporters are serious etc.
Mendel Epstein et al has a good argument here. Mendel Epstein et al are innocent of kidnaping conspiracy. No ransom, no reward, nothing similar.
Mendel Epstein et al are innocent of kidnaping conspiracy.
ReplyDeleteMendel Epstein et al were following ORA. Mendel Epstein et al were 100% ORA
ORA needs to be on trial including all rabbinic endorsements, see https://www.getora.org/rabbinic-endorsements
"I add my name to Rav Gedalia Dov Schwartz shlita and Rav Hershel Schachter shlita in support of ORA - the Organization for the Resolution of Agunot. I also have only positive experiences to report about ORA. I join Rav Schwartz and Rav Schachter's call to all members of the Jewish community to support ORA."
-Rabbi Howard Jachter
Dayan, Beth Din of Elizabeth
Rebbe, Torah Academy of Bergen County
The Torah says: “If a man is found to have kidnapped a fellow Israelite, enslaving him or selling him, that kidnapper shall die; thus you will sweep out evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 24:7).
The crime of kidnapping requires a monetary intent. ORA activities have no monetary intent. It costs them money to free agunot and to prevent abuse. The angry wives have no monetary intent on their demands for the get. They would give all their money for the get. The angry wives don’t care about money. The recalcitrant husbands have monetary objectives to get better terms in the settlement.
דברים פרק כד פסוק ז
ReplyDeleteכִּי יִמָּצֵא אִישׁ גֹּנֵב נֶפֶשׁ מֵאֶחָיו מִבְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל וְהִתְעַמֶּר בּוֹ וּמְכָרוֹ וּמֵת הַגַּנָּב הַהוּא וּבִעַרְתָּ הָרָע מִקִּרְבֶּךָ:
רש"י דברים פרשת כי תצא פרק כד פסוק ז
כי ימצא - בעדים והתראה.ד וכן כל כי ימצא שבתורה:
והתעמר בו - אינו חייב עד שישתמש בו:
Sanhedrin 85b
Mishnah. He who kidnaps a Jew [lit., a soul of Israel] incurs no liability unless he brings him into his own domain. R. Judah said: Unless he brings him into his own domain and puts him to service. for it is written, “If a man is found to have kidnapped a fellow Israelite, enslaving him or selling him, that kidnapper shall die; thus you will sweep out evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 24:7). If he abducts his own son. R. Ishmael the son of R. Johanan b. Beroka declared him liable, but the sages exempted him. If he kidnapped a semi-slave and semi-freeman [e.g., if he had belonged to two masters, one of whom had manumitted him.], R. Judah declares him liable, but the sages acquit [him].
The law is as R. Judah said: Unless he brings him into his own domain and puts him to service. The recalcitrant husband is the victim of the kidnapping. The kidnapper incurs liability if the kidnapper “puts him to service.” Getting the victim to agree to the get may well be “puts him to service.”
No. Getting the victim recalcitrant husband to agree to the get does not enslave him and does not puts him to service. Judge
ReplyDeleteJudge Jane Roth page 37 in Pacer:
“In relevant part, the federal kidnapping statute requires
that the kidnapping be committed “for ransom or reward or
otherwise . . ..”63 The District Court properly read this
language as encompassing a broad set of potential motives,
including the religious benefit of performing a mitzvah, while
reasoning, however, “that religious motivation simply cannot
negate the intent to commit a crime.” We agree that a
religious benefit can constitute a “benefit” under the statute.”
I quote Wikipedia on jury nullification :
Jury nullification is a concept where members of a trial jury can vote a defendant not guilty if they do not support a government's law, do not believe it is constitutional or humane, or do not support a possible punishment for breaking a government's law. This may happen in both civil and criminal trials.
ORA and agunahinternational etc do this !!! They shout it’s not humane to withhold the get!