One big happy family: Philly Kollel is proud to be associated with R S. Kaminetsky and also published an ad from the adulterous couple he created and supports
Reminds me of the story that went around many years ago about Rav Mandel ZT"L refusing a sizable donation from a famous actress, an alumnus from his school. Lehavdil Elef Havdolos between Rav Mandel ZT"L and...
What's happening with Tamar's "vayhi kemishlosh chadoshim", vehayeled eineno? By now she must be in her twelfth month, ukreisa bein shineha. According to Talmud it can happen, as the leitzanei hador said meAvimelech nisabro Sarah. She seems to be a makshe leiled. Tell Adam to buy red thread and ring around kever Mamme Rochel 7 times, ulay yerachem. There is a legend that Mah'aral miPrag also went around 7 times a formed clayman uboro Golem. Who knows, maybe these mighty and powerful rabbis can legislate and give a psak to give birth, same as forced divorces and marriages as stated in Pirkei ovos, "veal korchoch ato nolad". Hmmm... maybe they have eaten from the forbidden fruit and cannot multiply? Suppose if this tamar *date* ended up in a fig, and Adam is dried fruit do they still need a Get? Can they be forced to do so? Or it's a double jeapordy *mekach taus* and part their happy ways? Maybe we just settle for fig leaf coverup and just wish it away and won't know from Adam. it wouldn't have been so funny, if it weren't so sad.
Do things really get better the second time around?
She wasn't an alumnus, but was there maybe a year or two. She did send her daughter to yeshivah.
2. Contrast with the ponevezer rav z"l (there's only one, those after don't count) who accepted a large donation "on condition the students don't wear yarmulkahs" so he took the money and opened a girls school.
3. Accepting money is not a real problem. Publicizing it (ad journal) is a problem.
How could he allow these words to be printed?!!!!! 'Adam and Tamar Fleischer' That's an endorsement. And by the way, yes, I expect Kaminetzky to be mocheh. Especially since the blood is on his hands, to whatever degree you will be willing to admit that it is.
Incidentally, Rabbi Eidenson, or whoever might know, is that a picture of Fleischer with Kaminetzky sitting at the table? Sometimes the easiest defensive stance is brazen chutzpa. Not not chutzpa against non ehrlicher 'gedoilim', but chutzpa against The Torah.
Rav Manis Mandel was truly an ehrlicher Yid. Not a faker gadol at all. I guess one needs to choose whether to be a gadol or a Torah abiding Jew. Choosing to be a gadol means a life of deciding things on the basis of which people to please rather than which other people. Torah doesn't enter that equation. Don't get me wrong there is such a thing as a true gadol. The first criterion of that is not to be trying to be a gadol and therefore not to care whether your actions will keep you in gadolhood, so then you decide things on the basis of right and wrong. That makes a person a mentch, which is certainly a prerequisite of being a gadol.
Accepting money IS a problem. Unless you are rock hard certain that you have the strength to totally defy the donor as did The Ponevezer Rav Z"l, and simply view the donation as shlichus from Hashem regardless of the donor. Most people can't do that, so they must realize that and decline the donation.
Ehud - I would like to ask Daas Torah etc to ban you from commenting until you learn how to insert Hebrew fonts. Your comments are excruiating to wade through, which is a shame as I think you make good points sometimes.
Didn't he say to R' Weiss, R' C. Kanievsky and R' Dovid that he already told the paramours to depart? How lovely and G-d fearing is that??? Rak ein yiras Elokim bamakom hazeh. trans. No G-d fearing people in this place.
Oh, he can go on the same letter-writing campaign that he used against Aron Friedman!
He can write a public letter that they must separate? Or, he can quietly tell them to separate! But he told Joe Orlow that he never told them to separate. Rabbi EIdensohn has quoted that he told them that may rely on Rabbi Greenblaatt. His blogging groupies have indeed voiced the same.
hmmmmm....looks like year old info. According to their website, they celebrated their 16TH dinner last night. Looks like you are 12 months late to the party. Got any fresh news?
I was referring to relative degrees. Of course its not proper. But its done all the time.
The minchas eluzur wrote in his tzava'ah will that he never accepted money from an inappropriate source. (He actually meant he never took money from agudah.)
It wasn't just a matter of accepting a donation, but naming the school after her father, which was the condition of the gift.
It would have been tremendously hypocritical for a girl's school to name the school with money that came from a former student's having done exactly what the school was telling its girls not to.
The ad page from Tamar and Adam was sent to me as the current journal I could only final last years journal on line so I added the first page for context together with the material showing R Shmuel association with the Kollel.
They way he seemingly effortlessly weaves into a discussion expressions from the Torah is astounding. As here where he borrows the quote "The boy is not" and inserts it into a context which at first it is not obvious that it fits at all. But on reflection, it dovetails perfectly. Many learn Torah; Ehud adds an element of thinking the Torah.
I say it every night Davening Maariv: "U'va'hem Neh-geh". But how much do I mean it?
*Vochay bohem*! After all, you only live once. Many respond, you made my day. According to Talmud, cheering up people brings you to chayey olam haba. Hope you enjoy. ty
Besides (or at least) he can tell the greater Washington community to invite AF of Washington (and his daughter) to their shuls, mosdot, playgroups, social groups, etc
Well, you don't seem to understand how this works.
1) Aron Friedman is married to Tamar Epstein. He must give her a get! A chutzpah if he does not give into the bullies. How dare he defy us!!
2) Tamar Epestein was never, ever married to Aron Friedman. It was a mekach taus, which means the marriage was never valid. She has subsequently remarried.
1 and 2 are not contradictory! There's a special power that was given to somehow reconcile them. Us lowly people don't know how, but some special people have that power!!
----
In reality it is very, very difficult to deal with mistakes. It is especially difficult to deal with mistakes that have great consequences. Of particular concern is not ruining all the good that was already done. He may be concerned that if admits his mistake, then it will cause all his previous accomplishments to be tarnished. May we be saved from all these errors.
Tshuva will not help, meuves asher lo yuchal letaken. Stoning will not help, because even after all the bullets/ avnei blistrauot have been exhausted, the paramours are still parading around like Adam and Eve stuck in the midst of the cheit in Paradise and as if everything is peachy keen. Since we don't have a Pinchas to waste them away as Zimri and Cosby whilst in their midst of their Klezmer, there is left only one final solution.
Potur belo klum i efshar. Minimum is to reisz kriah on sight, and bury it outside the chomah four amos down n under and deal with it keGraf shel rei'i and ketalmid chochom shesorach, veyarchik leachoirov ad shetichle horeiach, vekofeh olov keli keAvel vachafui rosh umemalim achrov ofor. No Matzeiva please, kedei shelo yeda Adam mekom kvuroso, and no Kaddish shall be recited. Kocho yeosse leish haze.
"Us lowly people don't know how, but some special people have that power!!"
Firstly he already admitted it was a mistake. Even RNG admitted that those that misled him are responsible to tell them to depart.
RNG also said that there is no such thing as a secret psak, it must be disclosed, should he only have one. As Rabbi Eidensohn mentioned many times quoting the REM"A, that any Psak that looks weird to the people must be explained.
The least they can do, is to see them depart, not making parties with them.
Furthermore, R' Dovid said that the psak of Mekach taus is worthless. The erliche and true Gedoilei Olam hayoshvim al haModin indeed said that RNG is banned from having anything to do with betiv Gittin veKidushin. Sitting with them and partying around, giving them Kavod only defies The Psak of Poskei haDor and machzik yedei ovrei Aveirah of having a Noef veNoefes dwelling amongst them. Indeed, Pinchas ben Elazar would have strung them both in Towns Square by piercing them and there, in and on that spot. This mess is getting messier by the day. What kind of Torah do they learn in such a kollel anyway, and how does he still have yeshivah?
Both should be closed down with a lock and put on a going out of business sign. It is not good for Yidden and not good for Shiduchim, and even RHS's psokim encroaching on the girl's free will is also worthless, and even if you schmaiss her on Shabbos. They lost support in secular world and in the religous world that all their doings are false, false eidus, false documents, false Gittin veKidushin, false seiruvim, false and motzi shem ra, false harchokes, false schmayssing on Tisha be'Av. Oy nebach, these are the Daynei Yisrael Yiddenthum is inflicted with, no wonder why all these tzoros rabos misgabrim bechol yom.
Go ask mechila berabim from AF and his daughter, post in public that he is welcome in all the shuls and give him the deserved Kavod like all. Short of this and more, you have no prayer. Amen
Reminds me of the story that went around many years ago about Rav Mandel ZT"L refusing a sizable donation from a famous actress, an alumnus from his school.
ReplyDeleteLehavdil Elef Havdolos between Rav Mandel ZT"L and...
Well what do you expect Rav Kaminetzsky to do? Go on Twitter and tell everyone this couple are adulterers?
ReplyDeleteDoes Fleischer and his paramour live in Philadelphia?
ReplyDeleteWhat's happening with Tamar's "vayhi kemishlosh chadoshim", vehayeled eineno? By now she must be in her twelfth month, ukreisa bein shineha. According to Talmud it can happen, as the leitzanei hador said meAvimelech nisabro Sarah. She seems to be a makshe leiled. Tell Adam to buy red thread and ring around kever Mamme Rochel 7 times, ulay yerachem. There is a legend that Mah'aral miPrag also went around 7 times a formed clayman uboro Golem. Who knows, maybe these mighty and powerful rabbis can legislate and give a psak to give birth, same as forced divorces and marriages as stated in Pirkei ovos, "veal korchoch ato nolad". Hmmm... maybe they have eaten from the forbidden fruit and cannot multiply? Suppose if this tamar *date* ended up in a fig, and Adam is dried fruit do they still need a Get? Can they be forced to do so? Or it's a double jeapordy *mekach taus* and part their happy ways? Maybe we just settle for fig leaf coverup and just wish it away and won't know from Adam. it wouldn't have been so funny, if it weren't so sad.
ReplyDeleteDo things really get better the second time around?
"alumna", not "alumnus"
ReplyDeleteShe wasn't an alumnus, but was there maybe a year or two. She did send her daughter to yeshivah.
ReplyDelete2. Contrast with the ponevezer rav z"l (there's only one, those after don't count) who accepted a large donation "on condition the students don't wear yarmulkahs" so he took the money and opened a girls school.
3. Accepting money is not a real problem. Publicizing it (ad journal) is a problem.
How could he allow these words to be printed?!!!!! 'Adam and Tamar Fleischer' That's an endorsement. And by the way, yes, I expect Kaminetzky to be mocheh. Especially since the blood is on his hands, to whatever degree you will be willing to admit that it is.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, Rabbi Eidenson, or whoever might know, is that a picture of Fleischer with Kaminetzky sitting at the table? Sometimes the easiest defensive stance is brazen chutzpa. Not not chutzpa against non ehrlicher 'gedoilim', but chutzpa against The Torah.
Rav Manis Mandel was truly an ehrlicher Yid. Not a faker gadol at all. I guess one needs to choose whether to be a gadol or a Torah abiding Jew. Choosing to be a gadol means a life of deciding things on the basis of which people to please rather than which other people. Torah doesn't enter that equation. Don't get me wrong there is such a thing as a true gadol. The first criterion of that is not to be trying to be a gadol and therefore not to care whether your actions will keep you in gadolhood, so then you decide things on the basis of right and wrong. That makes a person a mentch, which is certainly a prerequisite of being a gadol.
ReplyDeleteGlorifying them for a Kollel benefit is not exactly as if telling them depart since they are living in sin.
ReplyDeleteAccepting money IS a problem. Unless you are rock hard certain that you have the strength to totally defy the donor as did The Ponevezer Rav Z"l, and simply view the donation as shlichus from Hashem regardless of the donor. Most people can't do that, so they must realize that and decline the donation.
ReplyDeleteMost Rosheu Yeshivos live with the hope that 'alumnos tireh bechayecha'
ReplyDeleteThose were some good puns!
ReplyDeleteEhud - I would like to ask Daas Torah etc to ban you from commenting until you learn how to insert Hebrew fonts. Your comments are excruiating to wade through, which is a shame as I think you make good points sometimes.
ReplyDeleteThe kollel & Philly community is growing with lovely, god fearing families so I guess you have to start banging down other doors.
ReplyDeleteNow, Eliezer, where did you get that idea from?
ReplyDeleteG-D fearing families who have a Noaif and Noefes in their midst and they are not Moche. And it seems they accept journal ads from them.
ReplyDeleteDidn't he say to R' Weiss, R' C. Kanievsky and R' Dovid that he already told the paramours to depart? How lovely and G-d fearing is that??? Rak ein yiras Elokim bamakom hazeh.
ReplyDeletetrans. No G-d fearing people in this place.
Is that picture of the rosh yeshiva and the chasan d'nan?
ReplyDeleteIs there any inyan to stone it, or to daven for teshuva when seeing the picture?
Oh, he can go on the same letter-writing campaign that he used against Aron Friedman!
ReplyDeleteHe can write a public letter that they must separate? Or, he can quietly tell them to separate! But he told Joe Orlow that he never told them to separate. Rabbi EIdensohn has quoted that he told them that may rely on Rabbi Greenblaatt. His blogging groupies have indeed voiced the same.
hmmmmm....looks like year old info. According to their website, they celebrated their 16TH dinner last night. Looks like you are 12 months late to the party. Got any fresh news?
ReplyDeleteI was referring to relative degrees. Of course its not proper. But its done all the time.
ReplyDeleteThe minchas eluzur wrote in his tzava'ah will that he never accepted money from an inappropriate source. (He actually meant he never took money from agudah.)
It wasn't just a matter of accepting a donation, but naming the school after her father, which was the condition of the gift.
ReplyDeleteIt would have been tremendously hypocritical for a girl's school to name the school with money that came from a former student's having done exactly what the school was telling its girls not to.
at least to not accept the donation.
ReplyDeleteThis comment is reall from me - "Politically Incorrect". Apparently, "Deplorable...." uses the same library computer....
The ad page from Tamar and Adam was sent to me as the current journal
ReplyDeleteI could only final last years journal on line so I added the first page for context together with the material showing R Shmuel association with the Kollel.
I thought Fleischer (and Tamar) are Modern Orthodox. The young fellow, with the hat, in the picture looks very hareidi.
ReplyDeleteEhud is a jewel in the crown of Daas Torah. We readers must humbly abide by "According to the effort is the reward."
ReplyDeleteSomething seems backwards. Isn't the presumption that the Epstein's enriched the Kolel which lead to the he(l)ter-skelter P'sak?
ReplyDeleteThe guy in that hat is not Fleischer.
ReplyDeleteThe guy in the picture is not Fleischer.
ReplyDeleteLol
ReplyDeleteI think he's brilliant and hysterical and in fact the English transliteration and occasional alliteration actually adds to the enjoyment.
ReplyDeleteשנינו התכוונו לדבר אחד
ReplyDeleteIndeed, he is quite representative of this blog's target audience...
ReplyDeleteThey way he seemingly effortlessly weaves into a discussion expressions from the Torah is astounding. As here where he borrows the quote "The boy is not" and inserts it into a context which at first it is not obvious that it fits at all. But on reflection, it dovetails perfectly. Many learn Torah; Ehud adds an element of thinking the Torah.
ReplyDeleteI say it every night Davening Maariv: "U'va'hem Neh-geh". But how much do I mean it?
Great minds think alike?
ReplyDelete*Vochay bohem*! After all, you only live once. Many respond, you made my day. According to Talmud, cheering up people brings you to chayey olam haba. Hope you enjoy. ty
ReplyDeleteGood, so you realize that people should be able to understand your comments. So please get Hebrew font.
ReplyDeleteBesides (or at least) he can tell the greater Washington community to invite AF of Washington (and his daughter) to their shuls, mosdot, playgroups, social groups, etc
ReplyDeleteWell, you don't seem to understand how this works.
ReplyDelete1) Aron Friedman is married to Tamar Epstein. He must give her a get! A chutzpah if he does not give into the bullies. How dare he defy us!!
2) Tamar Epestein was never, ever married to Aron Friedman. It was a mekach taus, which means the marriage was never valid. She has subsequently remarried.
1 and 2 are not contradictory! There's a special power that was given to somehow reconcile them. Us lowly people don't know how, but some special people have that power!!
----
In reality it is very, very difficult to deal with mistakes. It is especially difficult to deal with mistakes that have great consequences. Of particular concern is not ruining all the good that was already done. He may be concerned that if admits his mistake, then it will cause all his previous accomplishments to be tarnished. May we be saved from all these errors.
Yep, everything is permitted to be done at other people's expense.
ReplyDeleteTshuva will not help, meuves asher lo yuchal letaken. Stoning will not help, because even after all the bullets/ avnei blistrauot have been exhausted, the paramours are still parading around like Adam and Eve stuck in the midst of the cheit in Paradise and as if everything is peachy keen. Since we don't have a Pinchas to waste them away as Zimri and Cosby whilst in their midst of their Klezmer, there is left only one final solution.
ReplyDeletePotur belo klum i efshar. Minimum is to reisz kriah on sight, and bury it outside the chomah four amos down n under and deal with it keGraf shel rei'i and ketalmid chochom shesorach, veyarchik leachoirov ad shetichle horeiach, vekofeh olov keli keAvel vachafui rosh umemalim achrov ofor. No Matzeiva please, kedei shelo yeda Adam mekom kvuroso, and no Kaddish shall be recited. Kocho yeosse leish haze.
"Us lowly people don't know how, but some special people have that power!!"
ReplyDeleteFirstly he already admitted it was a mistake. Even RNG admitted that those that misled him are responsible to tell them to depart.
RNG also said that there is no such thing as a secret psak, it must be disclosed, should he only have one. As Rabbi Eidensohn mentioned many times quoting the REM"A, that any Psak that looks weird to the people must be explained.
The least they can do, is to see them depart, not making parties with them.
Furthermore, R' Dovid said that the psak of Mekach taus is worthless. The erliche and true Gedoilei Olam hayoshvim al haModin indeed said that RNG is banned from having anything to do with betiv Gittin veKidushin. Sitting with them and partying around, giving them Kavod only defies The Psak of Poskei haDor and machzik yedei ovrei Aveirah of having a Noef veNoefes dwelling amongst them. Indeed, Pinchas ben Elazar would have strung them both in Towns Square by piercing them and there, in and on that spot. This mess is getting messier by the day. What kind of Torah do they learn in such a kollel anyway, and how does he still have yeshivah?
ReplyDeleteBoth should be closed down with a lock and put on a going out of business sign. It is not good for Yidden and not good for Shiduchim, and even RHS's psokim encroaching on the girl's free will is also worthless, and even if you schmaiss her on Shabbos. They lost support in secular world and in the religous world that all their doings are false, false eidus, false documents, false Gittin veKidushin, false seiruvim, false and motzi shem ra, false harchokes, false schmayssing on Tisha be'Av. Oy nebach, these are the Daynei Yisrael Yiddenthum is inflicted with, no wonder why all these tzoros rabos misgabrim bechol yom.
Go ask mechila berabim from AF and his daughter, post in public that he is welcome in all the shuls and give him the deserved Kavod like all. Short of this and more, you have no prayer. Amen