One big fear in the weeks leading up to the presidential election was that Donald Trump would try to delegitimize the results by claiming rampant voter fraud — a bogus specter he had raised throughout the campaign, particularly as his polling numbers got worse.
In that scenario, of course, Mr. Trump was the loser. No one imagined he would say the election was rigged if he won. And yet here we are.
On Sunday, President-elect Trump unleashed a barrage of tweets complaining about calls for recounts or vote audits in several closely contested states, and culminating in this message: “In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”
This is a lie, part of Mr. Trump’s pattern, stretching back many years, of disregard for indisputable facts. There is no evidence of illegal voting on even a small scale anywhere in the country, let alone a systematic conspiracy involving “millions.” But this is the message that gets hammered relentlessly by right-wing propaganda sites like InfoWars, which is run by a conspiracy theorist who claims the Sandy Hook school massacre was a hoax — and whose absurdities Mr. Trump has often shouted through his megaphone, which will shortly bear the presidential seal. Mr. Trump added more fuel to the fire with the false claim of “serious voter fraud” in California, Virginia and New Hampshire — all states that went for Hillary Clinton.
In addition to insulting law-abiding voters everywhere, these lies about fraud threaten the foundations of American democracy. They have provided the justification for state voter-suppression laws around the country, and they could give the Trump administration a pretext to roll back voting rights on a national scale.
And why is Mr. Trump so hung up on the popular vote in the first place? After all, he won where it counts — in the Electoral College. And yet, in the three weeks since his victory, Mr. Trump has already admitted at least twice that he would prefer the presidency be determined by the popular vote, and not by 538 electors. It’s clear he feels threatened by Mrs. Clinton’s popular-vote lead — now more than 2.3 million and expected to exceed 2.5 million; as a percentage of the electorate, that is a wider margin than five presidents enjoyed. With support for third-party candidates added in, 54 percent of voters rejected Mr. Trump.
So maybe his touchiness is understandable. Like most people, Mr. Trump senses the fundamental unfairness of awarding the presidency to the loser of the popular vote. In fact, he made that argument himself, back on election night in 2012, calling the Electoral College “a disaster for democracy” when he believed, incorrectly, that President Obama would lose the popular vote and still win re-election. (In recent weeks he’s changed his tune, calling it a “genius” idea.) What Mr. Trump may not know, given his lack of interest in American history, is that the Electoral College was designed specifically to enhance the influence of white voters in Southern states, which were allowed to factor in their large slave populations.[...]
But if he’s truly worried about the legitimacy of the 2016 election, why doesn’t he call for a recount?
For all of you Trumpians out there, please help. Does he actually think that 3 million votes were cast illegally, or is this just another case where we should take him "seriously, not literally"?
ReplyDeleteIf the former, is he aware that this claim is based on absolutely nothing? It was stated by Alex Jones (who believes that the Sandy Hook massacre was done by the government. He based it on a since-deleted tweet, and the tweeter cannot produce any data to back up his claim.
If the latter, what does he think this will do in terms of undermining the confidence of the public in the electoral system? Does he not want the American people to believe that elections are generally run fairly?
It is quite possible millions of fraudulent votes were counted in New York, California, Illinois and the city of Philadelphia. How would Hillary it if those areas were recounted?
ReplyDeleteWouldn't you like to know?
ReplyDeleteIf the latter, what does he think this will do in terms of undermining the confidence of the public in the electoral system? Does he not want the American people to believe that elections are generally run fairly?
ReplyDeleteWho cares? Your questions would be better directed at Clinton's attorneys for participating in a recount effort when Trump clearly won. They just want to tie up the electoral votes so that he will have to be voted in by the senate, which will make the system seem rigged. A clear-cut winner can't keep his votes because of lawsuits that Clinton has her lawyers participate in.
please explain what you mean "participate in". Are you claiming falsely that Clinton denies that Trump one? Are you denying that Clinton did not initiate the recount?
ReplyDeleteTrump is claiming without any evidence that millions of illegal votes were cast against him in a number of states and that is why Clinton got the popular vote. Why is it difficult to you to understand that such a statement undermines the confidence of the public in the electoral system
I bet you don't know and probably Trump doesn't know either
ReplyDeleteTrump's lies have nothing to do with Clinton now that he was won. He can't make up lies with the justification that Clinton would not like a recount of areas she won,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you have trouble understanding that elementary fact?
First of all, it is the House of Representatives that decides the presidency in the event that no one gets 270, not the Senate. Second of all, the recount will be finished long before the date when the electors cast their ballots; that is why they have filing deadlines. Third of all, I challenge you to find one quote from a high-ranking Clinton campaign official who has suggested that they think Trump will not be the next president as a result of the recount. Fourth of all, why would my questions about understanding what Trump tweeted be "better directed" at Clinton's attorneys? Fifth of all, I am still waiting for you to back up your slander that I suggested that would riot after the elections.
ReplyDeleteYes, I would like to know. I think it is important to know if the president-elect, who has turned down the intelligence briefings, is instead getting his information from nut-job conspiracy theorists. I would like to know if anything he says over the next 4 years should be considered as truthful.
ReplyDeleteThere is no basis at all for the assertion that millions of fraudulent votes were cast anywhere in the U.S., and I challenge you to find any support for that claim.
ReplyDeletePlease see my comment here. http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/11/how-to-manipulate-donald-trump.html#comment-3028326017
ReplyDeleteJill Stein cannot be dismissed because Clinton's lawyers are making here fight so much stronger. Clinton's lawyers are prolonging the effort. It is Clinton's lawyers who are undermining the confidence of the public in the electoral system.
You win the bet.
ReplyDeleteAnd Jill Stein has a basis to call for a recount? I said it is "possible" for fraudulent votes to have occurred. The same way this J. Alex Halderman is saying there could have been hacks against Hillary Clinton, she "could" have had supporters hack machines in her favor. Either way, it doesn't matter. Trump won the Electoral College. If the Democrats don't like it, they can try to amend the Constitution.
ReplyDeletetell me, have you ever read this? http://matzav.com/donald-trumps-early-thanksgiving/
ReplyDeleteWhy do you have such an irrational hatred for the man?
Trump is claiming massive fraud!
ReplyDeleteNo, I think the recount call is ridiculous, as do all significant people in the Clinton campaign.
ReplyDeleteAnd Trump did not say there "could" have been fraud, he asserted, without any basis in reality, that there was fraud, to the tune of three million illegal votes.
This has nothing to do with hatred, it has to do with being quite sure that he has none of the qualifications that would make one a good president. The story you link to has nothing to do with this issue.
ReplyDeleteBecause he is an arrogant pseudo-intellectual egghead who took a few college courses and thinks that he is brilliant but in truth understands nothing about the real world.
ReplyDeleteA Washington Post article regarding a postmortem session sponsored by Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, where top operatives from both campaigns sat across a conference table from each other, included the following:
ReplyDeleteThe strangest criticism of the media, however, was by Trump’s former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski.
His complaint: Journalists accurately reported what Trump said.
“This is the problem with the media. You guys took everything that Donald Trump said so literally,” Lewandowski said. “The American people didn’t. They understood it. They understood that sometimes — when you have a conversation with people, whether it’s around the dinner table or at a bar — you’re going to say things, and sometimes you don’t have all the facts to back it up.”
The Washington Post writer referred to Lewandowski's comments as 'strange'. This highlights how out of touch and tone deaf the mainstream media was to Trump’s style and substance. The average American did not take Trump 'so literally', for Trump truly conversed with the electorate as real person, not a scripted robot like Hillary. By misreading Trump's style and being so m'diak, taking so literally his 'conversation' with America, the media lost its credibility and became the real losers in the election.
this is a strange comment. Praising someone for saying things repeatedly they he didn't mean. Taking seriously a person as a future president - in spite of the fact that they didn't believe he meant what he said. Voting for a person because - he didn't mean what he said and that they didn't really know what he meant. That is really strange.
ReplyDeleteWhy do Trumpians have such an irrational hatred for Clinton? Please read this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jpost.com/Opinion/An-Orthodox-rabbi-reflects-on-private-moments-with-Hillary-Clinton-471250
It seems half the populace has lost touch with reality. Sad.
ReplyDeletePeople sitting around the dinner table or at a bar do not have the ability to make decisions that will have an impact on the welfare of the entire country. Suggesting that someone running for president should feel free to make statements without having facts to back them up because people do the same thing at a bar is ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteJust to give you a heads-up, as you are new in these parts: Many of the commentators here are tin-foil-hat wearing conspiracy theorists who believe that Clinton has had many of her political opponents murdered, or something like that.
ReplyDeleteWhich half?
ReplyDeleteI read it. And I know who Rabbi Hain is. His description of Hillary shows her as a politician who mouths platitudes without doing real action. And I have read and heard how she is when there is no one around like Rabbi Hain to manipulate. Her treatment of Secret Service agents and military personnel is abominable. What Donald Trump did for Avraham Moshe Ten and others was true, tangible chesed. He learned from his father, a goy who donated land for a shul, how to be a good person. Hillary Clinton's public face did not reflect the nasty vicious person she really is. Trump's chesed is why he was not only zocher to have Jewish grandchildren, but also to become President.
ReplyDeleteYour slavish support of perhaps the biggest liar in US political history, Hillary Clinton, indicates that you really don't care about the truth. You are simply a sycophant of the Democrat fiction.
ReplyDeleteyou keep repeating the same tired pathetic arguments. Trump the great tzadik who cheats people, who commits adultery, who brags about abusing women - who is a liar without competition in the political realm etc etc is superior in your eyes because of an act of chesed to a Jewish child?!
ReplyDeleteThe total unreliability and lack of objectivity of the New York Times.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6nRfwZ0BQ8
I never said he was a tzadik. In fact I have acknowledged many times he is a flawed individual. He is a boor and a boaster. Much about him is idle talk, though he is not a RAPIST like the Clinton who did win the White House. There were far better men suited for the Presidency but they didn't get the nomination. So when it to the choice between the boasting boor and the crooked liar, the country chose the likelier of two piles of dung to fertilize the country's growth as opposed to one that would have just stunk it up further.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing this blog can do about Trump being President for the next 4 years. Why don't you go back to concentrating on helping Aharon Friedman?
Trump can not be ignored for 4 years. He is a bull in a china shop
ReplyDeleteRegarding Aharon Friedman - there is no stira
I was almot convincd by your argument. But the fact is the Mashiach, the future leader of all of humanity, is a descendant of a Balak a Moabite king that wanted to destroy Israel. In recent history, I know of at least one German Nazi who has Jewish grand-children. Furthermore, the people chose Hitler in democaic elections based on fake news, smearing their opponents and the lying pres. Therefore, I have to disagree with you and say that having Jewish grand children (though a beautiful thing) and being elected President (based on fake news) is no proof hat one is fit to be President. It all dpns on what G-d's plan is for the country: to make it reat or humble it.
ReplyDeleteI have just learned that there are some who believe Trump is A "messiah" or his election will usher in the Messianic age in some way. A word of caution though. I do recall when President Obama won, I had the misfortune to be in attendance at a Shiur, where the Speaker claimed that the election of the first black President (he used a spcific Israeli word for black) as the leader of the world spelled the beginning of the Messianic age. Anyway here are some links:
ReplyDeletehttps://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/2016/05/the-gematria-of-hillary-clinton-and-donald-trump/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Cq6SFQ9aA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyqEPcxz_Tc
There are those who claim that the gematria of Trump's name is Mashiach ben David and of Clinton .. well se for yourself.
ReplyDeletehttps://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/2016/05/the-gematria-of-hillary-clinton-and-donald-trump/
How seriously should we take gematria?
Here is th link to the son of a german Nazi who became Jewish. I like such stories:-).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/2375263/jewish/I-Am-the-Son-of-a-Nazi.htm
You've been posting a lot more about Trump than about the Kaminetzskys lately. Trump you can't affect much. Your postings here won't change a thing. But you were able to raise awareness about the Aishes Ish that has brought shame to Klal Yisrael. Trump is a distraction from that. In fact, I am going to ignore every posting you have or will make on Trump starting right now.........
ReplyDeletegood idea.
ReplyDeleteimpact is not directly related to the number of posts or I would make 5 posts a day on the subject
Very interesting video. But why post it here? Trump's family may have originated from Germany but they in fact were barred from returning to Germany when his grandfather was expelled for missing military service. Trump's father in fact donated land in Beach Haven for a cheder. http://www.hidabrut.com/article/178516 Perhaps Hashem prevented Friedrich Drumpf from returning to Germany because his son and grandson were destined to help Jewish causes and Jewish children like Avraham Moshe Ten, o"h.
ReplyDeleteAhh. But Hitler did not do mitzvos as Fred and Donald Trump did for many years BEFORE Donald even contemplated running for President. The person with more in common with Adolf Schikelgruber was the woman who went into an anti-Semitic tirade when she had a setback https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/jul/18/uselections2000.usa
ReplyDeleteWhatever Hashem's cheshbon is for the nais He performed in making Donald Trump the President, Donald Trump and his father did mitzvos for which we are grateful. Far more lies have been said about Trump, Bannon, etc than they have said. Trump is a tall-tale teller like Davy Crockett and everyone knows it. http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/tall-tales/
you are trying to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse
ReplyDeleteSaw somewhere that Rav Amar was asked what to make of the fact that Trump = Mashiach Ben David. His response, trump also equals chatzi mana falafal. (Sorry I dont have a hebrew keyboard). try it, it works.
ReplyDeleteCertainly not! But a pig's ear makes a darn good leather wallet.
ReplyDeleteHopefully Trump will make a good President
ReplyDelete