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Regarding:
I think someone has to get the following information to Rabbi Feinstein: even if a psychiatrist diagnosed Aharon as mentally ill (and even if this is retroactive), there still can be no heter.
I believe I wrote this to you in the past: According to her own version of the story, Tamar Epstein discovered her husband's issue and decided that getting married was a mistake two weeks after the wedding.
See from 37:44 of the video.
She became pregnant with their daughter a few months later.
Under these circumstances, Rabbi Feinstein's father would never have granted a heter, even if a psychiatrist had diagnosed a disorder in the husband.
Nothing new here - she claimed she thought she could fix the marriage. This is in line with what the Epsteins have been saying that she originally thought that AF could have been "healed" of whatever diagnosis he had. Once she was told that there was no cure she bailed. Her story in the video is quite vague and open to interpretation.
ReplyDeleteI think just the opposite, she said that a week after sheva berachos she knew "she made a terrible mistake" but she stayed on ....
ReplyDeleteNot exactly
ReplyDeleteShe claimed she thought it was 'curable'. Till the K's 'convinced' her years later that it was incurable, paving the way to the 'hetter'.
Thus, its not (just) a medical question of diagnosis, but a medical question of is it curable. That is a disagreement between doctors, that requires analysis by many professionals, not a lone 'expert' , to be reviewed by appropriate poskim (the majority of whom disagree, otherwise Ks wouldn't have had to shop around the 'mumche's report.)
This is out of line what the Doc's claim, Krispedidtis cannot be healed. meikora may komistaver? For one lie, it calls for another thousand in an endless loop.
ReplyDeleteA heter here of mekach taus seems like a joke.
ReplyDeleteלקיים מה שנאמר כשחוק לכסיל עשות זמה וחכמה לאיש תבונה.
Hey, but I am not a posek
וכן הוא אומר כי רבים חללים הפילה ועצומים כל הרוגיה
And neither are any of you. Although you all think you are
הה״ד תועבת ה׳ כל גבה לב יד ליד לא ינקה
ויש להבין קשר גבה לב , ויד ליד לא ינקה ? לכאורה אין קשר והגמ׳ דורשת אפילו מסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה וכו. ואולי הגמ׳ מדבר על פסוק אחר יד ליד לא ינקה רע וזרע צדיקים נמלט.
ויש לתרץ ע״פ פשט ,דהקב״ה שונא בעלי גאווה כמו דכתיב גבה עינים ורחב לבב אותו לא אוכל ,וכן הוא אומר שש הנא שנא ה׳ ושבע תועבת נפשו ,והראשון מהם הוא עינים רמות והקדימו אפילו לידים שופכות דם נקי. והנראה ע״פ פשט דיש בעלי גאוה ויש חניפים שמחניפים להם . ויד ליד לא ינקה היינו אלו שמושיטים יד להבעלי גאוה וכידוע שנותן יד פירושו מחזיק ולא ינקה אלו שמחזיקים בעלי גאוה..
This is a Gemora Kesuvos 77a: "If the husband had defects the whole time why do we force him to divorce her? She knew and accepted? She thought she could handle it but now she can't handle it" Clearly if she was aware of issues but thought she could work with it, it is not a mekach taos, although we may force a divorce. R' Feldman brought this proof.
ReplyDeleteWhen she stopped taking contraceptives, it was sovro vekibla.
ReplyDeleteShe said WHEN? Staying on was the SOVRO VEKIBLA.
ReplyDeleteDear Ehud, can you please provide a list of the sources you used in determining your pesak halacha. Thank you
ReplyDeleteWould the person who wrote this email please clarify his credentials and background in personality disorders, since he seems to have a clear picture in the complicated dynamics of these disorders. Thank you
ReplyDeleteWhat was the original thought of the expert, that there is a cure, huh? You are insulting our intelligence.
ReplyDeleteהמדיר פרק שביעי כתובות עז.
ReplyDeleteמתני׳
״ י ו אלו ש כופין א ותו ל הוציא ...
ש תאמר ם בורת ת ייתי ש אני י כולה ל קבל ו עכשיו א יני י כולה ל קבל
This is the source, veidach zil ugmor.
,The psak is from the Geonei uposkei tevel!!!
as you scroll down and see for yourself, mi vomi haholchim.
there is no sound? can someone repost?
ReplyDeleteEhud,
ReplyDeleteConsidering that the issue here is that she became aware of new information regarding the complex illness PPD, the source you bring is not relevant. Please bring a source from the poskim and shulchan aruch regarding the situation under discussion. Thank you
this WHORE is hot as hell
ReplyDeleteInteresting
ReplyDelete“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEi4SXT_fCA
See from 37:44 of the video.”
My take: The ORA feminists deeply resent the imbalance between men and women on divorce in Jewish law versus, say NYS law. In Jewish law a man can give his wife a get that she demands and then immediately go on with his life and marry another. This is what I did 2/17/1993 to Susan and I married Yemima 5/9/1993. No problem. Fine. In NYS law, a man divorces his wife in NYS courts that she initiated and demanded. It could be the man didn’t attend the proceedings and objected in writing. The NYS divorced wife cannot then immediately go on with her life and marry another. She needs a get. This leads to:
(internet 2012):
“Supporters of Tamar Epstein, whose ex-husband, Aharon Friedman, refuses to give her a religious divorce, have been pressuring Friedman's boss, U.S. Rep. Dave Camp, R-Michigan, to fire Friedman. They have protested in front of Camp's office, signed a petition at change.org, started a website (freetamar.org) and in February, bombarded Camp's official congressional Facebook page. But Susan Aranoff, director of Agunah International, which supports Jewish women seeking divorces, said social media has little effect because many husbands still are resistant after all the bullets have been fired."
RMF specifically writes (in the SSA tshuvah) that if she 'stays' with him even one night, she cannot later claim she can't live with him.
ReplyDeleteIt's already been done bidei achierim. Scroll down and find ALL the worlds Poskim responding to this very exact issue no matter how you care to call this alleged Krispeditis. Once she has been put on notice, it is buyer beware. It's been covered very thorough and very well with a summary. No such thing as kiblah al pi tnay, and there is absolutley no evidence of the claims whatsoever. At best, it calls for a Get. If you still feel it be irrelevant, kindly re-read. hafoch bo vehafoch, veze kol haTorah kula al regel achas.
ReplyDeleteNo need. The alleged yere shomayim Doc is neither a yere shomayim nor a Doc. Diagnosing in absentia is worthless. You can call it pippi D or longstocking E, it's all the same.
ReplyDeleteI am not an expert in psychological matters but there are perhaps a few matters I can help you with. When it comes to physical illnesses, the main factor in diagnosis is the etiology, i.e. the processes that are causing the symptoms. If a pediatrician diagnoses every sick kid with "sore throat disease", he will not be around very long, because he hasn't contributed anything. He is just describing the symptoms. However, all psychological disorders are diagnosed by the symptoms alone. The diagnoses in the DSM do not have any explanation for what is wrong with the patient, rather they restate a group of symptoms and give it a name. This is based on necessity; modern medicine really doesn't know much about mental illness, so if we had to diagnose based on etiology we'd have maybe two disorders. So psychiatrists are naming the patient's symptoms when they give a diagnosis, not discovering a brain tumor. This works fine when the patient is unhappy with their problem, as we may not really understand what's wrong with them but we'll still try to help. These problems are called ego-dystonic. However, it becomes very strange when the patient feels fine but other people complain about him. These problems are called ego-syntonic. Every diagnosis that ends with PD is a personality disorder, and all personality disorders are ego-syntonic. So the difficulty is in telling a happy person that they have a diagnosis because no one else likes the way they act. Since it is a psychological diagnosis, it is just restating the symptoms, except the symptoms are activities that the patient thinks are normal. For example: OCPD is a disorder of which one symptom is being very careful about timeliness. Conceivably, if your friend is super-obsessed with bitul torah and is extremely careful with his time, he is one step closer to this diagnosis. The DSM-5 has a section on re-evaluating these disorders as they're so subjective. So PPD is not a complex illness per se, rather it is a pattern of behavior of mistrust that other people find bothersome. It is obvious that a pattern of behavior is changeable and thus PPD is "curable", however the psychologist told Tamar that AF wasn't going to change. This means that AF was not going to change his behaviors because he had no interest in changing them and he didn't feel he was doing anything wrong. Therefore R' Nota referred to Tamar finding out AF as being incurable. This has nothing to do with the underlying severity of any problem, it was just AF's decision. I hope this helps.
ReplyDeleteTamar had a nagging feeling about the shiduch from day one..... The fact that she stayed may have stemed from an insecurity or nieveness on her end, but that has nothing to do with him....
ReplyDeleteTo those saying she was not on contesresptives, my response is 'how do u know??' Birth control is not 100 %full proof....
To those saying she was not on contesresptives, my response is 'how do u know??' Birth control is not 100 %full proof....
ReplyDeleteYou're right. However, in this case, she herself told the Baltimore Beis Din that she was on contraceptives for the first eight months of marriage. She decided that she would like to have children with Aron, and went of of them. Please read Beis in this letter. http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/rav-aharon-feldmans-letter-against.html
The lack of mentchlichkeit towards the father
It's the unfortunate outcomes of love and war. I blame those close to her family and her community. Those who are not emotionally involved have a strong responsibility to encourage them behave properly, and to tell them so.
The hostility towards AF from the community stems from belief ...that he is crazy....
If he is crazy, how can they fault him? A crazy person deserves understanding and compassion, not emotional and physical abuse.
Anyone in the Epsteins neighborhood would be shunned blacklisted for helping AF
That seems to be the real problem.
Agree with you. The more I read about this, I get sick to my stomach. Litteraly.
ReplyDeleteThere is sooo much wrong with this whole situation.
It must be very difficult as a person who personally knows the involved parties. The silver lining is that after this debacle with all its publicity, people will be a bit more afraid of playing stupid games with childrens lives.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I wish your words to be true, I don't fully believe that. Children have been the pawns in divorces for as long as divorces have been existant. I don't think it will change anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteI just always thought that only certain types of people were capable of "stooping" that way....
But apparently it can affect even the most culturaled, refined, and kind people.
It's right in front of your eyes, svuras hoyisi sheani yochola lekablah, I thought I could take it. Just because she thought otherwise, doesn't make it an unknown. I repeat to you again what I have told you in your previous gilgul, it is Buyer beware after she has been put on notice. And no, the Krispeditis that might have tentacles, does not make it into a shtreimal with 18 shputzin. I understand that you try to evolve this argument into a born again Talis shekula tcheiles and call it a new briah, this briah in and of itself was never born. It was hoirosoi veleidosoi beshav vesheker, evaluated by a so called Doc beilum shem shav vesheker, and so hold gedoilei uPoskei haDor. End of story. There is nothing more to add for me, so have great and kosher'n Pesach.
ReplyDelete