update: Rav Feldman has validated the below letter - though insisting that he is still opposed to the heter - which isn't clear from the letter itself.
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/rav-aharon-feldmans-latest-official.html
The Kaminetsky-Greenblatt supporters have so far failed to produce any valid justification for the heter given to Tamar Epstein. Instead they are producing lies and forgeries. The claim by the Kaminetsky family that Rav Shlomo Miller had retracted was refuted by a lettery by Rav Miller himself. Now a letter has been posted in Lakewood claiming that Rav Feldman regrets writing a letter criticising the heter. It is a crude imitation and obviously a forgery. Why don't they simply admit the heter was a major mistake?
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/rav-aharon-feldmans-latest-official.html
The Kaminetsky-Greenblatt supporters have so far failed to produce any valid justification for the heter given to Tamar Epstein. Instead they are producing lies and forgeries. The claim by the Kaminetsky family that Rav Shlomo Miller had retracted was refuted by a lettery by Rav Miller himself. Now a letter has been posted in Lakewood claiming that Rav Feldman regrets writing a letter criticising the heter. It is a crude imitation and obviously a forgery. Why don't they simply admit the heter was a major mistake?
a) it does not appear to be the ktav yad of RAF
ReplyDeleteb) he usually writes in fluent Rabbinic Hebrew - the authors of this letter do not know enough Hebrew
c) It is a crude forgery with no proper letterhead, instead simply using a word processor
d) It has poor spelling, punctuation, grammar etc, so was written by an ignoramus.
e) They may be basing it on the Gemara that was cited on this blog once, where it says if you want to bring an argument, use a name of a great person that might have supported it.
This isn't a case of talmiday chachamim menatzchim etc, where laymen needn't get involved, it is a case of a clear distortion an adulteration and mockery of The Torah, to which every Jew who makes a bracha every day and includes himself by saying 'venasan LANU es Toraso' and therefore has a chelek in The Torah may and must protest and decry the ridiculing and defacing of this most precious treasure of ours.
ReplyDeleteLol!!! It's got a smiley face at the end if you're so naïve to believe , they're laughing , so am I
ReplyDeleteThis purim joke brings up another sore point in this whole fiasco Sholem's letter is the very first teshuva ever written which you can bring into the bathroom there's no halachic reasoning in it more when you can expect from a reformed rabbi writing a responsa on Hilchos Shabbos a collection of personal views positions and opinions with really no basis , just that the rabbi feels so . Nor has there been any give-and-take which is also a departure from rabbinic protocol that when questioned on a position as a matter of decency and probity , the rabbi in question feels more morally obliged to explain his position to his colleagues not here , they don't have colleagues in their high sphere we're all lesser beings who they are deigned to live with , not people who they owe answers to, you can be sure that if the was a halachic give-and-take the laymen would stand aside
ReplyDeleteTerrible how one low thing leads to another low. Reb Shmuel is old and Shalom took advantage
ReplyDeleteThe date on this letter is over one month ago...
ReplyDeleteIf this is real, where has this letter been hiding all this time?
You are a fake fraud and phony. R'AF was in concert with all other Gedoilei
ReplyDeleteuposkei haDor. Discussions have been done before the final resolution, and they
all agreed to be moiche bechol Toikef. Megale ponim baTorah to be matir eishes
ish lashuk with all kinds of cheap lies is not menagchim ze et ze behalocho.
This is a pure chillul hashem with more lies covering up the previous lies with
forgeries. It is crystal clear from ein cholkin kovod lerav that there is no
bizayon. Each forthcoming letter will be worse that the previous with more
shamtas. Buckle up beore the crash landing. Over n out!
Check out the elbonasheltorah.com site. It's hysterical, in both meanings of the word.
ReplyDeleteEven if it's not a forgery, it doesn't say he retracts his opposition. It just says the matter should be handled among Rabbonim and not on blogs.
ReplyDeleteOne might argue that were it not for the blogs, it would be business as usual and the Rabbbonim wouldn't be discussing it all, but that's another matter.
"It is a crude imitation and obviously a forgery." You seem to have a very good working relationship with Rabbi Feldman
ReplyDelete1) Find out if it is a forgery or not.
2) if it is not a forgery will you listen to what he wrote in the letter and close down your blog since it seems to be directed at you?
you are a sorry joke
ReplyDeleteI don't see the humor in what I wrote. RAF makes some very strong statements about this BLOG. I simply asked if it's not a forgery will you do as he has asked.
ReplyDeleteIf Rav Feldman genuinely feels that I am doing something wrong - it is no big deal to contact me. Until that time - your conjectures as to what he might feel about what I am doing are simply a joke.
ReplyDeleteIf your main concern is whether I would automatically comply with anything that Rav Feldman said - the answer is no I would not.
And what would be the reasoning for you not listening to what he asks? Is his request so unreasonable?
ReplyDeleteSalty with an email name of real daas torah - you are obviously a troll
ReplyDeleteyour questions are not to know but rather to tell me what to do. If you really just wanted to know the answer to your question - you just have to read some of my posts. You obviously don't like what I am doing and have annointed yourself as my opponent.
Not interested in wasting my time with trolls - so go away or I will simply block further comments
Unfortunately even the worst forgeries are used to obfuscate facts. Note this one manufactured by MR. Pesach Lerner and used by Young Israel to file a fraudulent SECULAR lawsuit, http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uAE_8H0JUdA/Tr_lh4gqj7I/AAAAAAAAAEQ/DC9P7DSx-0c/s1600/Annotation2forgery.jpg
ReplyDeleteReally, 33rd of Elul?
It is obvious the "request" is NOT from Rabbi Feldman. Why do you insist that it could possibly be real?
ReplyDeleteThis last response confirmed my belief this entire time. You are not about Kavod Hatorah, nor are you any bit leshaim shomayim. in your world only you are right and even RAF isn't worthy of being listened to if it doesn't fit with your agenda. You are the sorry joke.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking of the community of two toros that will become evident when these mamzerim become of marrigeble age, some saying that they are אסורים לבא בקהל and sholom Kaminetsky saying that it's a mitzva to marry them, some roshei yeshiva not allowing the students to participate in the wedding, while the philly boys will dance away, lol, sadly two toros,
ReplyDeleteTime has come for me to go back to my rebbe, rav yechesckel Roth, and separate myself from the agudah types, !!!!
If my email address was RAF@NIRC.edu and my ip address baltimore MD you said you wouldn't listen so it has nothing to do with me being a troll or from Lakewood. You just don't want to listen to anyone that has a different view then yours.
ReplyDeleteElchanan your hostility and biases are showing. You claim because that if I am do not automatically following whatever Rav Aharon Feldman may say that makes me not interested in Kavaod hatorh!? Since when is that the definition of concern for kavaod hatorah. The rabbis I do follow clearly believe what I am doing is kavod haTorah. I never said RAF is not worthy of being listened to. I said everything he says is not automatically complied with. I definitely would hear what he has to say.
ReplyDeleteFurthemore this is talking about a claim from a forged letter. I have to agree with it in order to be frum?!
Elchanan please peddle your nonsense elsewhere.
Salty it doesn't take a high level of intelligence to understand that your claim is false. This blog is full of views of people who disagree with me. I listen to those who disagree with me - but I am not bound to accept that they are right and I am wrong.
ReplyDeleteTry a different approach
I'm not talking about the letter but the hypothetical. The list of "rabbonim you do follow" gets smaller and smaller with each new post. Again, not because they are wrong but because in you can't see past your own ego.
ReplyDeleteListen but not bound to accept? Even from someone like RAF?
ReplyDeleteAs an aside - see Targum Unkelos for Torah definition of listening. Can be found anywhere the word to hear/listen is is used.
please cut out the psychobabble. If you have something intelligent to say - please say it . If all you have to say is you don't like how I think - I don't like how you think - so what?
ReplyDeletemaking up a litmus test of frumkeit as to whether you will automatic comply with a request of every distinguished rabbi is nonsense. No frum Jew does that.
Even fictional characters know "The more lines you cross, the easier it gets" (Kal-El of Krypton). There were rabbis at the start of Conservative Judaism who meant well when they first crossed the line but one thing led to another and we see the results.
ReplyDeleteSo what does my email or ip address have anything to do with the conversation? You made a claim which you have no basis to make about the letter from RAF all I said was to verify the fact and you refuse does that make someone a troll? If it's true that he in fact did write it does it no warrant some soul searching on your part as to what type of comments are coming from this site and even if you don't listen to him to at least monitor the comments not to cause a bigger chillul hashem then you have already? It's not me making that statement it's Rabbi Feldman.
ReplyDeleteDo you listen and accept whatever Rav Sternbuch says. Rav Sternbuch is considerably more advanced than Rav Feldman. You do whatever the Lubavitcher or Satmar Rebbes said? You are following Rav Chaim Kanievsky's psak to stay off the Internet. etc etc etc. Please stop your hypocrisy. Your point isn't relevant to being frum but you are simply looking for a club. Please apply it to yourself before claiming it applies to everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you hear that Rav Feldman is criticizing me? Oh a forged letter is giving you a possibility. Maybe there is a forged letter that Rav Chaim is prasing me? Your logic is outstanding. It is time consuming enough trying to deal with the realities of the scandal without having to now defend myself against forged letters- because maybe they contain elements of truth.
ReplyDeleteRav Feldman has had no problem contacting me in the past when there was something he wanted to say to me. I don't think he has suddenly become shy or afraid of my reaction.
Your presumption that what I have done is the cause of the problem and not the timidity of the rabbis - is simply wrong. The real issue is that you think I am wrong and I disagree with you. Tough!
There is a phone number to call Rabbi
ReplyDeleteFeldman on the letter call him and ask him if it's authentic.
Sorry but someone is trying to sell me a bridge - don't have time now
ReplyDeleteMy objective is to raise the level of the debate as oppose to the mudslinging that has been the norm on your blog. I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with me but to dismiss someone because of his ip address or his email address is pretty funny considering I haven't made any statements pro or con in this debate.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have an awfully large amount of time on your hand to respond to every critic on this blog. But to verify something that may prove your method false that you don't have time for? Very telling...
ReplyDeleteWhat I do is irrelevant when we are discussing the nature of this blog. I am not rallying people in the name of g-d while at the same time claiming that there is no need to automatically comply with gedolai yisrael about the blog because secret rabbonim say that the blog is a correct venue for this situation. And besides is that the mature way respond to someone pointing out something that your doing may be incorrect. By deflecting it with telling them that they are also wrong. I'm sure you make an excellent therapist.
ReplyDeleteHmm. .....I was wondering all way back when Reb Shmuel's letter denying any involvement in the heter was dated in the summer,but came out a few months later, at least on this blog. .....
ReplyDeleteIt is NOT Rabbi Feldman who made that statement! If you are so sure the letter is not a forgery why don't YOU call up Rabbi Feldman and verify its authenticity?
ReplyDeleteYou're right. It's hilarious LOL!
ReplyDeleteThe most blatant proof the letter is a forgery is that it directly formats the letter into the post. If it had been a real letter from Rav Feldman there would have been an image with a letterhead and his signature.
For more hysteria chack out this blog: https://daistorah.wordpress.com/
ReplyDeleteLOL
ReplyDeleteLet's see if Shalom Kaminetzky will still have a job at the Philadelphia yeshiva at that time. Maybe his students at Penn will be told it's a positive precept to marry the illegitimate; but not bonafide yeshiva students.
I don't have to. There is no signature nor any other part of the original image of the letter if it existed. It would be an insult to bother the Rosh Yeshiva with such nonsense.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Eidensohn,
ReplyDeleteThe letter indeed looks about as crude and silly as one can get.
However, it does bring up the question - what is Daas Torah and what does one do when Roshei Yeshivos differ?
Why can't a talmid of a particular posek say "I follow my posek, in all areas of halacha, and this is what I am going to do".
Chasidim seem to have an easier time of this - they follow the Rebbe.
The Yeshiva World has found itself with a smorgasbord of poskim and we tend to pick/chose hetterim and chumros.
I see that you adhere to Rav Shternbuch, Shlita. That is wonderful for you. But does it mean that his Daas is Daas Torah for everyone else?
Do we pick and chose Poskim who we agree/disagree with? If so, that is Daas Sheli, not Daas Torah.
I am finding this whole eruption morbidly fascinating as it exposes those who claim to adhere to Daas Torah, yet will turn on that same Daas Torah when it does not suit their needs.
ROFL! Ta'ne liksil keivalto!
ReplyDeleteWhy don't we turn the tables,
ReplyDeleteWho is encouraging you and your silly behavior? Who approved what you are doing? You seem to have quite a bit of time to waste, so why have you not verified with Rabbi Feldman if your method is correct?
I actually did confirm that it is authentic but If I say anything on this blog which is contrary to the admin's position I might get banned.
ReplyDeleteWhat I do is irrelevant when we are discussing the nature of this blog.
ReplyDeleteIt would do you well to listen to your hypocrisy. Do not demand of others what you don't do yourself - especially when it is based upon feelings and not based upon halacha. Now, which gedolai yisrael approve of your blogging?
Couldn't it possibly be אור לג׳ אלול? That is certainly the first impression I got, because there is an illegible work prior.
ReplyDeleteMind you, I am not saying people don't forge and make up stuff, but I think no one is dense enough to write the 33rd day of Elul, even on a forgery.
So you're the Philly boy type who believes that the Torah commands you to follow blindly with the you understand or not not only is there no basis for that and no true Ravwill tell you that but this case in point just proves what kind of damage your mindless meanderings through life
ReplyDeleteNathan, I never knew Rav Yechezkel Roth is by the Carlbach shul!
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how everything suddenly revolves around Rav Aharon Feldman. ....
ReplyDeleteIf reports are true that her family is well off, then it definitely is a mit$vah.
ReplyDeleteBut that only applies if she continues to donate. Once the donations stop, there goes the 'hetter mamzerut'.
And as I've said, you have time to respond to every comment that you don't agree with, but you fail to prove your point. ...even though you sometimes cut and paste. ....
ReplyDeletethere is no unitary body called Daas Torah. There are views that are onsistent with the Torah. Eilu v'eilu applies also to Daas Torah.
ReplyDeleteNever said anything of the sort. I dont think one must listen blindly to anyone who calls themselves a rav or rosh yeshiva. However when one day you hold of them but when they disagree with your opinion you dont take heed - it says alot about who u really are.
ReplyDeleteApproved of what i am doing? If ur serious please get some help. I think anyone with seichel can see the difference. Maybe its too much to expect from you.
ReplyDeletenonsense
ReplyDeleteTypical
ReplyDeleteit depends whose Daas T you follow! Some people claim they have the unitary Daas Torah.
ReplyDeleteDaas Torah seems to evolve in its meaning.
Im not the one shoveling dirt on rabbonim that dont agree with my opinion. Please show me how the content of my posts violate halacha. Until then you can can continue you self righteous moderation of the blog.
ReplyDeleteUnderstood. My point is that those who so firmly stood behind Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky as the embodiment of Daas Torah seem to have flipped on him. I would assume that Daas Torah isn't a pick-and-chose philosophy.
ReplyDeleteIf Rav Shternbach, Shlita, would issue a p'sak that you disagree with, I assume that you would accede to his Daas Torah, correct?
Again: Now, which gedolai yisrael approve of your blogging?
ReplyDeleteIt would do you well to listen to your hypocrisy. Do not demand of others what you don't do yourself - especially when it is based upon feelings and not based upon halacha.
Approved of what i am doing?
ReplyDeleteYour blogging/comments.
Method of what? Of saying that if there is an inkling of doubt about whether or not this method is correct he should verify?
Indeed. With whom have you verified that this comment of yours is correct - especially the next part...
If ur serious please get some help. I think anyone with seichel can see the difference. Maybe its too much to expect from you.
This comment says it all about you.
Some things are totally unacceptable no matter who says them. If someone gets up and says that murder is mutar and he is matir the blood someone close and dear, no rational person will say that any measure of respect and restraint in protesting is called for. For those who believe in The Torah for a married woman to be allowed to have another man without receiving a get from the first is a cardinal sin like murder. So if anyone says that a woman may remarry without a get and finds some convoluted way to distort the Torah and/or the facts, then no matter who it is who is saying so, people who care about the truth will naturally and rightfully be up in arms, end of story.
ReplyDeleteHarry,
ReplyDeleteI think that this situation is not quite as black&White as your metaphor would suggest. Even if you passionately disagree with the p'sak, how it was made, etc. it is not THAT obvious.
Furthermore, does this allow the Rov heretofore revered as Daas Torah to be shamed and mocked?
I get the feeling that all the alleged loyalty to Daas Torah is really a sham. People follow their own Daas not the "Gedolim". They then find the Gadol who matches their viewpoint until it is no longer convenient.
How did you "confirm" that it is authentic? When I confirm documents I show the document image WITH signature. How odd this has no signature while I see other documents from Rav Feldman have his signature.
ReplyDeleteIts hard to keep up with your self righteous moderation of the forum. Are you paid by daas torah to contribute absolutely nothing other than letting people know that they are being condescending and rude? Dude get a life, or a real job.
ReplyDeleteJust because your rewrote something in bold lettering doesn't make it any more intelligent. You distorted my comment to suit your self righteous critique. The question here is whether this blog and its creator are really doing something because they are following daas torah or because of another agenda. I never claimed to follow daas torah or even believe in such a concept. Hence, its lack or relevance. As for my own comments, where has the content been in violation of halacha or hypocritical based previous statements?
ReplyDeleteA chaver of mine was informed by a member of the Hanhalla at Ner Israel that the letter is indeed legitimate. Feel free to call and independently verify that such is the case. Agree with the content or not, it isn't a forgery.
ReplyDeleteHonesty, be real, seems to me tht his job is secure, we sadly were unsuccessful in our efforts
ReplyDeleteLets face it--There is NO godol that would condone what is going on in this blog!
ReplyDeleteNo Rav Would condone what goes on in this blog
ReplyDeleteI don't think that "those who so firmly stood behind Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky as the embodiment of Daas Torah seem to have flipped on him." They may be critical of his doings in this case, but we have yet to see anyone from the standard Litvish world who has criticized him personally, or suggested that people stop attending his yeshiva, he be removed from the Mo'etzes, etc.
ReplyDeleteyou are wrong
ReplyDeleteHow about "No Rav would go on the record as condoning what goes on in this blog"? Would that be wrong? And if it is, who are they?
ReplyDeletePQ, when the Gemara Brochos 19 says that if one's rebbe is wearing shatnez in the marketplace that you rip it off him immediately, we obviously do not consider it a chance that what he is doing is Da'as Torah. On the contrary, the Gemara said that in place of Chilul HaShem one does not give honor to the rav. Here too, one can hardly find a greater Chilul HaShem than here......
ReplyDeletePQ, although I am not about to relate a Gemara, or ma'mar Chazal, I nonetheless find this story illustrative: lately, I have been reminiscing over a conversation that someone related to me that he had with a Lubavitcher Chossid:
What would I do if Rav Moshe Feinstein, would G-d Forbid, tell me to commit suicide? I would tell him, "Excuse me, Rav Moshe, the Torah says not like you, you apparently have gone senile.
Turning to the Chossid, he asked him, "And what would you do if the Rebbe would tell you to commit suicide?" To which he answered, "If he really would, he would definitely have a good reason to do so, so I would therefore have to follow suit." To which my friend concluded, "If that's the case, then you are an apikores".
Sometimes we forget that the source from where talmidai Chachomim get their kovod from, or the obligation to be honored, is not really a personal issue, but rather, a respect for the Torah itself. All the more so repugnant, repulsive and revolting, the distorted sense to be compelled to honor a person for his stature while he is Chas v'sholom uprooting the Torah from which gave him his kovod to begin with.
We know the need for this blog from the letter of the Eidah HaChareidis asked for macha'os and from the letter of Rav Sternbuch which complained about the lack thereof. Do they have to give specific monkey instructions on how to mechanically do so? No.
ReplyDeleteNo one criticizes, personally nowadays - 'achshir doroh' as the Gemara questions rhetorically. ......
ReplyDeleteBut..........for those purposes, Rav Shlomo Miller's letter. .....among others, should suffice. .........
Indeed, let's be real. Time will tell what will be with Jr. מה שלא יעשה השכל יעשה הזמן
ReplyDeletelet's face it -you don't know and you are imagining that if you were a gadol - but I'll tell you a secret - you are not a gadol
ReplyDeleteWADR to the Edah, if you read the signs on walls of Jerusalem they call for protests all the time, and the Litvish world totally ignores them.
ReplyDeleteimportant illustration of the pervasive reality of the selective following of the "Daas Torah" of rabbinic leaders
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Starting from their extreme opposition to participation in anything having to do with Israel, and on to many other issues as well, what can be called the standard yeshiva Litvish community has not paid any attention to the Edah for decades. Even if one ascribes to the idea of da'as Torah, it does not mean that every gadol from every subgroup must be listened to. That would obviously be ridiculous, as much of what gedolim say contradicts what other gedolim say. What da'as Torah would mean is that when one is part of a particular group within Torah Judaism, the gedolim of that group should be listened to. If one adheres to the da'as Torah ideology but does not feel he can listen to what the gedolim of his group say, he should find himself a different group to identify with.
ReplyDeleteYou are so right!! R' Edehnson, your heart may have been in the right place. But look how much Lashon Hara and Beizoi Talmidei Chachamim are in the posts and comments. This blog must shut down.
ReplyDeletewhat is the Daas Torah ideology? And what is the source of your rule?
ReplyDeleteAs used in the common parlance, "Da'as Torah" refers to the concept that gedolei Torah have special insight to matters even beyond the purview of straightforward "Torah" matters, and should therefore be listened to even in matters that are not subject to pure halakhic analysis. E.g., who to vote for in a particular election. I don't have a "source" for my "rule," as it is not a rule at all. It is just common sense that nobody can believe that one should listen to the instructions of all rabbis on every issue, and that one should identify himself with a community whose leaders he respects.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the illegible squiggle you refer to is supposed to be an asterisk. Even Mr. Lerner "translates" it as such. Do you notice the line thickness and penmanship differ between the signature and the date on that line?
ReplyDeletePlus, has anyone ever seen a document from Bais Din re-dated like this AFTER the Bais Din declared the original, unaltered version of this document to have been written in error?
Please see the timeline and unannotated documents at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByDyf3w55PRPbk1DaGVLaGVWNzQ/view?usp=sharing
Where did R' Miller indicate that R' Kamenetsky should be removed form the moetzes or that people should not attend his yeshiva?
ReplyDeleteWould you have a problem if Rav Moshe disagrees with what you claim? Or would you simply say Rav Moshe lacked true Daas Torah?
ReplyDeleteNo need to speak in riddles. What does R' Moshe say that disagrees with what I said?
ReplyDeleteYou missed the entire point. As usual.
ReplyDeleteElchanon wrote:
ReplyDeleteThe question here is whether this blog and its creator are really doing something because they are following daas torah or because of another agenda. Claiming to be following daas torah but refusing to listen to RAF if he indeed thinks this venue is wrong is tarti desasrei. Cherry picking who you listen to
Elchanan you are setting up a straw man. I never made the claims you attributed to me. So asseerting that not listening to everything said by Rav Feldman means something really signficant - is total nonsense. Instead of trying to put words in my mouth and then claim that it proves I am a hypocrite or worse - is really not helpful. Please stick to the issues instead of devoting so much of your effort to discredit me personally.
If you have nothing intelligent to say than please stop wasting our time. Your ad hominem attacks will not be published anymore.
try the introduction to the 8th volume of the Igros Moshe where he clearly doesn't agree with your Daas Torah agenda
ReplyDelete1: I was unaware that R' Moshe published an eighth volume :).
ReplyDelete2: I have no "Daas Torah agenda."
3: The introduction is over 40 pages long, and none of it is written by R' Moshe. Once again, no riddles please. If you have something to cite, just please cite it.
I am not asking you to believe me, pick up the phone and do your own due diligence. I did mine.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that the forger was dense, his interest was to create something false. As such he was not careful and his thought process of writing "twenty-three" in Hebrew was confused by the more used number ending in "-three" from the Omer.
ReplyDeleteYehoshua, come on, I'm just saying (albeit flatly) that such language isn't in the cards nowadays (okay, theoretically, perhaps if he made an an entire 'ir hanidachas', but really, come on.... )
ReplyDeleteIt most certainly is THAT obvious.
ReplyDeleteThe protesting is our only tool. Anyone who truly believes in The Torah feels that this is the most heinous crime. Tell me PQ, if someone would ch'v threaten to kill your father or son or best friend, and the person would be someone who was heretofore revered as Daas Torah, would you be required to stand by and watch as they carry out this wicked crime and not be allowed to protest with the utmost of vehemency?! Anyone who doesn't agree with this analogy, obviously doesn't really believe in The Torah which considers adultery as such a crime.
Someone is defiling my holy Torah, my holy father in heaven!!! I can't be stifled to bear it respectfully, to give any degree of respect to those criminals while they are attacking our very life - ki haim chayenu.
I am very hurt by your comment. How could you care so little about what's being perpetrated here that all you are worried about is protecting the perpetrators?! ON MY BLOOD! How dare you?!
1. How would a letter of this type, genuine or not, lessen bizayon hatorah?
ReplyDelete2. The letter contends that the scholars should be left to resolve this matter. In view of the polarization already seen among scholars, how does that happen?
Rabbi Feldmand's office just sent out an email confirming the validity of the letter with his signature on it. I quote."Using email made it possible for irresponsible individuals and blogs to pick it up and create a wanton and unjustifiable bizayon hatorah. As I said in my letter, this aveyra is much greater than that of eyshes ish"
ReplyDeleteWhen you see a pattern, you know it's the same MO. R S Miller already reaffirmed his position, we don't need to discredit anymore of these forgeries. These ma'aseh t'atuim are the last gasps before total bankruptcy. The big bang is on it's way.
ReplyDeleteI spoke personally with HaRav Feldman, and he affirmed that the letter is authentic, and from him, and strongly reiterated its contents.
ReplyDeleteI thought this was a sloppy forgery but it turns out to be genuine. Rav Feldman also requests the Tzibbur to stop discussing it. So I am now ending my involvement in this subject, please let's see some more lomdus posts.
ReplyDeleteThis nusach has been drafted up by none other than SK. This expression has also been used in the Dodelson war, "to cease and desist". We need yet to find out what's going on. Besides, the words of halachic *Discussion*, and initiate the *Discussion* doesn't jive with original letter. It was far from being a *discussion*, much rather a *NIMNU VEGOMRU* with nothing further to discuss. Therefore, it needs further scrutiny whether someone is holding a *Gun* to his head. A godol would never lie so bishat nefesh, when he knows good and well that he is/was in concert with all other gedoilei haDor in PROTEST and NOT DISCUSSION!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd finally, *let the Talmidei chachamim *decide* the matter*, it already had been DECIDED, all RAF allegedly asks for the change in FORMAT, but not the ETZEM PSAK. Vetsorich bedika achar binyan ze.
Rav Avrohom Yehoshua Soloveitchik said that one is not alowed to learn in such a yeshiva. He didn't just say that one can't learn btly that particular rabbi, but that one can't learn in that yeshiva...
ReplyDeleteI just mentioned above that Rav Avrohom Yehoshua Soloveitchik did say that one shouldn't learn in his yeshiva....
ReplyDeleteWhere have things evolved up until today? Some whole ago, I saw some invitation for some parlor meeting in their home! What a chutzpah! Hopefully they don't have any mamzerim. Any update?
ReplyDelete