You have greeted me with a smile despite my opposition to your treatment of Aharon Friedman. Sometimes we clashed in public. On two occasions I counter-protested at rallies against Aharon that you promoted and attended. We met privately several times to discuss the matter.
I have contacted some of the other Rabbinical leaders in the DC area. When I bring up the issue of the Washington Vaad letter that urges people to persuade Aharon to give a Get, all roads lead back to you. You hold the key to rescinding the letter.
The Vaad letter specifically references a letter from the Agudas Harabonim that also calls on people to persuade Aharon to give a Get. It is clear to all now that that the Agudas Harabonim letter is a fraud.
The Agudas Harabonim letter is fraudulent in numerous ways. It is from a Bais Din, and yet the Bais Din never met with one of the parties in the dispute. It is from a Bais Din, yet this Bais Din did not have jurisdiction, despite the assertion otherwise in the Vaad letter. It is from a Bais Din, but one of the signatories to the letter received favors from the family of one of the parties to the dispute. The list goes on and on. One of the signatories is headed to prison because he was part of another Bais Din that ruled that a non-existent husband in a non-existent marriage should be beaten. At least one official of the Agudas Harabonim participated in the attempted beating. One or more of the other signatories was aware, and apparently approved, of this other Bais Din's method of making secret rulings to beat husbands. One of the signatories specifically said the letter is not meant to be used as a basis for public rallies against Aharon, but that is exactly how the letter was used by ORA at a rally here in DC where I first met Rabbi Jeremy Stern and he showed me the letter.
Perhaps most significantly, the Agudas Harabonim letter purported to be a Seruv but did not conform to the Halachic format of a Seruv. The letter was phony on its face.
The Vaad letter refers to Tamar Epstein as an "agunah". This "agunah" just remarried. It is two years since this "agunah" declared herself free and stopped demanding a Get.
Yet, you, Rabbi Rosenbaum still demand of other Rabbis in town that they pressure Aharon to give a Get.
And the Rav is an honorable man.
So I would like to ask you, or any other Rabbi in town who accepts you as leader of the Vaad, to please explain to the thousands who follow this blog, what is your basis for excluding Aharon until he gives a Get?
Please include the basis for the Vaad determining the Baltimore Bais Din no longer had jurisdiction, and please explain the Halachic basis for forcing a Get in the context of a wife unilaterally deciding to leave her husband.
I hope the graciousness you have always shown me will be extended to answering my sincere question.
Joe Orlow
Joe,
ReplyDeleteGreat work. You are taking on the many Orthodox rabbis who feel that freeing an "Agunah" is more important than the Shulchan Aruch. And of course, if they believed in the Shulchan Aruch that a coeced GET is invalid, and the children produced from it are mamzerim, they would not have tormented Aharon Friedman for so many years. But they don't believe in the Shulchan Aruch. They believe in themselves.
Joe, you make excellent points!
ReplyDeletePS: i left a message on your voicemail.
My Question to Rabbi Rosenbaum and all the others like him: Which is it do you agree that Tamars kiddushin is invalid and thats whu you kicked Aharon out of shul or do you think her marriage is valid and YOU AND OTHER SHULS SHOULD KICK OUT TAMAR AND ADAM! But you cant have it both ways!
ReplyDeleteWhich official of Agudas harabonim was involved in which beating?
ReplyDeleteCould someone please post (or put up a link to) the letter from Agudas HaRabbonim. My understanding of Joe Orlow's post is that the "dayanim" were RSK (conflict of interest), Wolmark (convicted felon) and possibly Ralbag?
ReplyDeleteIs that correct?
If so, that's quite a joke of a kangaroo court. To think that Rav Moshe sat on the Beis Din of Agudas HaRabbonim. Eich naflu...
Again, a scan would be much appreciated.
People are fed up with your putting together the two issues. Just because a person feels that Aaron should give the get does NOT mean he supports RSK and that the marriage is annulled. In fact the American poskim that came out against the heter did not mention that Aaron is right in not giving a get just that she is still married to him.
ReplyDeleteI would add:
ReplyDelete“The teaching of the Lord is perfect, renewing life; the
decrees of the Lord are enduring, making the simple wise; The precepts of the Lord
are just, rejoicing the heart; the instruction of the Lord is lucid, making the
eyes light up. The fear of the Lord is pure, abiding forever; the judgments of
the Lord are true, righteous altogether, more desirable than gold, than much
fine gold; sweeter than honey, than drippings of the comb. Your servant pays
them heed; in obeying them there is much reward. Who can be aware of errors? Clear
me of unperceived guilt, and from willful sins keep Your servant; let them not
dominate me; then shall I be blameless and clear of grave offense. May the
words of my mouth and the prayer of my heart be acceptable to You, O Lord, my
rock and my redeemer.” (Psalms 19:8-15).
“And the word of the Lord of Hosts came to me, saying,
Thus said the Lord of Hosts: The fast of the fourth month, the fast of the
fifth month, the fast of the seventh month, and the fast of the tenth month
shall become occasions for joy and gladness, happy festivals for the House of
Judah; but you must love honesty and integrity.” (Zechariah 8:18-19):
“Thus said the Lord of Hosts: The fast of the fourth
month, the fast of the fifth month, the fast of the seventh month, and the fast
of the tenth month shall become occasions for joy and gladness, happy festivals
for the House of Judah; but you must love honesty and integrity.''
מלבי"ם
תהלים פרק יט פסוק יד
(יד) גם, הגם שאני מובטח
שלא אעבור על מצות ה' בזדון, לפעמים יתעה האדם ע"י זדים החלוקים על האדם במזיד
ומתעים את האדם ע"י טענותיהם, או שהם מושלים עליו ומכריחים אותו לנטות מדרך הטובים,
על הראשון אמר מזדים חשך עבדיך בל אתחבר עמהם, ועל השני אמר אל ימשלו בי, אז איתם אהיה
תמים, ונקיתי מפשע רב, שבודאי לא אפשע במזיד ובמרד, ולא לבד שלא אכשל במעשה, אבקש כי.
מלבי"ם
תהלים פרק יט פסוק יג
(יג) שגיאות, אולם בקש בל יכשל מלזהר בשמירתם,
א] ע"י השגיאה, שהוא שגיאת העיון, שיתחלף לו לאמר על האסור מותר שזה גדר השגיאה
כי מי יבין להנצל משגיאת השכל, ב] מנסתרות נקני, שהוא השוגג הגמור כסבור שהוא שומן
והוא חלב שלא תענישני ע"ז:
מלבי"ם
זכריה פרק ח
(טז) אלה הדברים אשר תעשו, שבזה תהיו מוכנים אל
התשועה האמתית, דברו אמת איש אל רעהו, כי הנביא ראה שחורבן בית השני היה בעון שנאת
חנם, וגם שראה בחזיונו את המגלה עפה שיצאה להענישם בעבור שבועת שקר, ושתים נשים שנשאו
את האיפה שהם חנופה וגסות הרוח שהיה ביניהם ולכן גלו שנית כנ"ל, ולכן הזהירם שיחדלו
מדברים האלה שיגרמו את החורבן שנית:
(יט) כה אמר ה', עתה שב אל התחלת דבריו שבא הדבור
בעבור השאלה ששאלו אם יצומו בחדש החמישי, ואחר שהציע להם שהכל תלוי במעשיהם אם ישובו
בתשובה, א"כ אמר ה' שצום הרביעי והחמישי וכו', יהיה לששון ולשמחה בתנאי אם האמת
והשלום אהבו, שאז תהיה גאולה שלימה ויחדלו דברי הצומות וזעקתם:
there are a number of posts besides the ones listed here. Seach archives for Friedman, seruv, Tamar Kaminetsky etc
ReplyDeletehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/12UH91ucE41HDx415MhJMMnGk8RMy1o8MISnuaFGxRuTDgDsYSCXYpivKa1Ym/view?pli=1
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/04/friedman-epstein-what-halahic.html
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/08/bitulseruv-aharon-friedman-rav-gestetner.html
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/09/bitul-seruv-of-aharon-friedman.html
“Please explain the Halachic basis for forcing a Get
ReplyDeletein the context of a wife unilaterally deciding to leave her husband.” What are the rights of the husband in these
cases? To the radical feminists these husbands have no rights. This is what my mother, a”h, wrote late 1991
to my sister-in-law on 748 East 9th Street Brooklyn about Susan
unilaterally deciding she wanted a get from me:
“בס"ד Dec. 6, 1991 Dear
Chavie and Yitz, Happy Chanukah! You wrote to me such terrific letters that I
have to answer you---The problem with Jerry & Susan is very serious. Susan is seeking a civil divorce. Jerry has a lawyer who is trying to nullify
or prevent the divorce. Susan told Jerry
she wants a divorce a week before he left for Israel. Before earlier she promised to go to Israel
with him. But this was a trick to get
him out of the way so she can file a divorce.
I understand that it seems as if he walked out on Susan. In truth she fooled him. She wrote that even if he goes back to NY she
won’t let him into the house. When I was
in NY last year they did not talk to each other. She claims she has no need of him &
prefers to be separated. Jerry writes love letters, that he’d do anything she
says. But she is very defiant &
wants a divorce. What do you suggest now?
She is no considering 6 wonderful children, בע"ה. Jerry misses them & wants them to come to
Israel. Convince Susan to come to
Israel. Love, Mother & Solly.”
Thanks
ReplyDeleteArthur, fedup is part of the furniture here, or perhaps part of the landscape. I, for one am not fed up but get smarter seeing his posts, although they often confirm my own findings.
ReplyDeleteI believe that YOUR argument is one that mixes two things together. Although the above post does not mention the need to deliver a get, especially when as far as the *demanders* are concerned, there is no need for a one!
The Baltimore Bais Din for one, reserves its right to decide when he should deliver one AND has ruled that in the meantime he does not have to give one. That itself would suggest that by default, the other rabbonim are on board with.
But. ....by default, as mentioned here many times before, 'get on demand' is not a given (nor a gotten) and up until then, the line go:
The louder you scream,
The prouder I GET
A Freilichen Chanukah :-)
Oh, and I might add on the contrary that just because Tamar is not entitled to a get, does not mean that Aaron is not entitled to a heter me'ah rabbonim ;)
ReplyDeleteR wolmark (pled guilty)k. R ralbag (testified under immunity from prosecution.)
ReplyDeleteBoth dayanim
After reading and rereading your post I am not sure what you are saying or who you are saying it to. Feel free to yell all you want about his right in not giving a Get and maybe you are right or maybe you are not. Maybe I even agree with you. More importantly and more pressing is the fact that a big posek relied on a rosh yeshiva whose facts are sketchy to annul a marriage. Maybe they also used a posek in Chicago who already demonstrated that he has poor investigative skills too. The point is I don't care if u think Aron should or should not give a Get but this is a much bigger and more severe travesty of Halacha and anyone who thinks clearly see it that way; hence all the letters that came out now and not a year ago.
ReplyDeleteWolmark sentenced today.
ReplyDeleteWas this "open letter" sent to Rabbi Rosenbaum directly?
ReplyDeleteIf yes, was he given a chance to respond?
If not, why is it being posted publicly without giving him a chance to respond?
Selections from Pacer Judge Freda l. Wolfson Order
ReplyDeletefiled 12/11/15 24 pages:
“If a husband refuses to give his wife a get, the wife
may sue for divorce in a beth din, which may order the husband to issue the
get.”
“Evidence and testimony during the trial revealed that
Epstein charged the undercover agents approximately $60,000 to arrange for the
kidnapping and potential beating of a fictitious husband in order to coerce the husband to
give a get.”
“Epstein argues on that motion that the government has
not sufficiently proven that a conspiracy to commit kidnapping existed. I do not agree. Indeed, the jury was presented with evidence
of various kidnappings and attempted kidnappings during the conspiracy time
frame: the kidnapping of Israel Markowitz in 2009; the kidnapping of Israel
Bryskman in 2010; the kidnapping of Usher Chaimowitz and Menachem Teitelbaum in
2011; the attempted kidnappings of Aaron Friedman; and the attempted kidnapping
involved in the FBI sting in 2013.”
“Stimler reasons that because freeing an Agunah is a
mitzvah under Jewish law, his participation as a witness to get a get is proof
that he was only motivated by a desire to fulfill that mitzvah.”
“As to the Chaimowitz and Teiltelbaum kidnappings,
Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag testified that Stimler appeared before him and admitted his
role in that kidnapping, and not merely the fact that he was a witness to the
get, but that Stimler knew that the
victims were bound.”
“Indeed, the FBI recordings, the emails, and written
contracts, which were available to Stimler prior to trial, described the
undercover agents’ conversations with Epstein, as well as with the ORA and the
Beth Din of America.”
Selection from Pacer Judge Freda l. Wolfson Order
ReplyDeletefiled 12/14/15 2 pages:
“It is on this 14th day of December, 2015,
Ordered pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6003, that
Fredric Goldfein provide testimony or other information which he refuses to
provide on the basis of his privilege against sel-incrimination as to all
matters about which he may be questioned.”