Monday, July 27, 2015

Prof Marc Shapiro: Distorting & concealing halacha - how mainstream is it?

I want to simply note that I also was disappointed with the last chapter of an over all excellent book which is a very valuable contribution to understanding Orthodox Judaism. I don't think Prof Shapiro made a serious effort to discuss the meaning of emes in traditional sources.



The Seforim Blog    Critique by Prof Frimer and Response by Prof Shapiro of his new book about censorship

Truth be Told[by Aryeh A. Frimer*1] Comments on Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites its History by Marc B. Shapiro


[...] But what I found particularly troubling with Changing the Immutable was the last chapter, which deals with lying in pesak. After going through the many examples Shapiro cites, the reader is left with one clear impression. One sometimes needs to be careful about trusting a Posek, since he may well be misrepresenting something in his ruling. It could be the source and authority of the prohibition. For example, is the prohibition based on a biblical commandment (positive or negative), rabbinic edict, custom or mere public policy (slippery slope) considerations? Alternatively, the expressed reason may not be the real grounds for the prohibition. In addition, the application may be much broader than halakhically permitted. To my mind these are shocking revelations: these are not sins of omission but commission; the perpetrators are scholars and religious leaders; and these deviations constitute intellectual dishonesty at its worst.[...]

It is with these jarring observations that the book comes to an abrupt end, without any further comment or soul-searching. This is despite the fact that on page 239ff, Shapiro brings one citation from Hazal after another about the centrality of truth, and the seriousness of the sin of lying. After all, the Torah itself commands us: "mi-Devar sheker tirhak" – "From untruthfulness, distance thyself” (Exodus 23:7). If what the author writes in the last chapter is true, then Hazal's eloquent statements about the importance of honesty have become nothing but a mockery. It raises serious moral questions with insufficient and unsatisfying answers. How are we now supposed to educate our children and talmidim as to the cardinal nature of truth and truthfulness?! How are we to live with such a clash between theory and practice? [...]

Having lived through the crises and confrontations of women's prayer groups, women on religious councils, women in communal leadership roles and women's aliyyot – I can testify that there is great need for both in-depth knowledge and truthfulness. The "hillul Hashem and loss of trust" argument is not just hype - but painfully all too accurate! Many of the rabbis in the 1970s lost control of the religious leadership of their communities because they were unprepared or unwilling to deal with the challenges honestly and head on. Many rabbis simply tried to stonewall the situation, while others were not forthright about the real reason for forbidding such practices. As previously noted, the Rabbis may well have been correct that many of the feminist practices introduced were halakhically unsound or "bad for the Jews" on a variety of public policy grounds.[21] But instead of saying so clearly (as Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik zt"l had urged and himself practiced), some rabbis waffled, while others prevaricated. But the halakhic truth quickly became known – a consequence of the "information age." And as a result, many balebatim lost trust in the religious leadership as a whole. For them the conclusion was simply: "Everything boils down to politics."

It is, therefore, critically important to reiterate that the cases cited by our author, exemplify neither pesak in general, nor the consensus view of the posekim. It is forbidden to misrepresent in halakhic rulings as a matter of law and policy. In essence, then, Prof Shapiro's scholarly and well-documented book presents the reader with a most fascinating review of an approach within halakhic decision making, which has been rejected by mainstream pesak. Indeed, such cases need to be actively addressed if they are to be uprooted.


Response by Marc B. Shapiro

I understand why Professor Frimer is troubled by what I wrote, and to a large extent my conclusions diverge from his own. All I would say is that the matter is complex, and rather than attempt to simplify matters, as I feel Frimer has done, we must attempt to understand how the same Sages who spoke about the importance of truth could at times countenance departure from it. This is a challenge that requires sensitivity and nuance, and appreciation of changing times and values. When Frimer sees a text that permits false attribution, he sees prevarication and hypocrisy. But a historically attuned outlook would seek to understand rather than condemn. Ironically, it is Frimer who is judging the Sages and decisors, because if their ideas do not conform to his understanding then these ideas are regarded by him as problematic.[...]

The point of the chapter, however, was not to advocate for one position or the other, but to focus on the alternative tradition, the existence of which is more or less suppressed today. I was explicit that my aim was to show how far some were willing to go in sanctioning deviations from the truth, and I indicate that there are views in opposition to these. However, my intent was to study the views of those with a “liberal” perspective on the importance of truth. It is this tradition that I wished to explore, and to rescue it, as it were, from the well-intentioned apologetics. I never state that this is the only authentic position. On the contrary, one can find the opposite perspective presented in numerous articles. This is why I thought it was important to present alternative views, from the Talmud until the present, views which I think show that there is a rabbinic conception of the Noble Lie.[..]

I agree with Frimer that none of the great poskim supported lying in pesak as a normative option on a regular basis. Yet as I have already indicated, I believe that there is a tradition that allows for not being frank at certain times, when it is thought that other values are at stake. In the book I state that we should understand this position in a sympathetic fashion even if it is at odds with how today we generally approach matters.[...]

I have been called some different things in my life, but this is the first time I have been referred to as one of “Orthodoxy’s critics”.

Let me also add that Changing the Immutable has sold very well in the haredi world, and this is not surprising since it is not an anti-haredi book at all.

25 comments:

  1. I haven't read the book, but can you give an idea of what "emes" is? One example that might be in conflict with the rationalist approach would be Akavya b. Mehalelel, and his tragic consequence of speaking what he held as emes, and had a tradition for.

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  2. Thank you, I am glad you brought these sources.
    I was actually already thinking of the differences between Rambam and Ramban on astrology. Maimonides holds it is all false and nonsense, whereas Nachmanides says it may contain some truth, in which case we can rely on it or benefit from it. A classic machloket of Rishonim.

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  3. Does Emes (truth) vary from
    Kehilla to kehilla, from culture to culture?

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  4. That is a very good question and if it is addressed to me, I cannot give a full answer. If we consider a machlokes rishonim for example (assuming I have correctly depicted the one on astrology), it may be that neither side has the absolute Emes (compare to the tanur of Ahknai), or that each one holds one part of the elephant in the dark room.

    But why, for example, do some of the prophecies of Ezekiel seem to differ from what we know in the Torah (eg a Kohen marrying a widow of a Kohen)?

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  5. It's worth looking at Shapiro's rejoinder just to see the wonderful example he brings of Rav Moshe Feinstein's misquoted pesak about being present with one's wife at childbirth.

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  6. Who misquoted Rav Moshe's psak?

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  7. R' Yitzchak Zilbershtein, by carefully omitting a key phrase.

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  8. Obviously you understand Rav Moshe differently than R' Zilbershtein. R' Zilbershtein probably, though, has a better grasp of Rav Moshe than you do. So either chalk it up to a difference of opinions between yourself and a world reknown posek. Or chalk it up to l"h. Unless l"h has lost all meaning these days, as by definition l"h means it is true.

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  9. Make sure not to miss the comments where shafran trys to claim he was not reviewing the book and then being exposed as lying

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  10. @David - your comment indicates that you didn't read the Hebrew text where Rav Zilberstein acknowledges that he is misrepresenting the psak of Reb Moshe .Not sure why you think you can guess what the discussion is about and slam someone else for not mistakenly guessing the same way you did!

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  11. Actually, why don't you read the post in question before commenting? Rav Zilberstein was asked about the omission, and said that he did not record R' Moshe's true opinion after consulting with gedolim.

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  12. See Rav Hirsch on that haftora, and the Malbim there.

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  13. Thanks. What is the maare makom? Why was he told to change Rav Moshe's psak? Who told him to do so? What did he change? And didn't he realize it would be obvious he changed it - so what did he hope to accomplish anyways?

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  14. The editor of the secular paper added in a comment that it was a review of the book that Rabbi Shafran never wrote. R. Shafran was responding only to the review, not to the actual book.

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  15. Perhaps Prof. Shapiro would like to address the gross halachic distortions in certain Modern Orthodox feminist inventions such as the allegedly "halachic" prenup. Or does Prof. Shapiro and his Modern Orthodox colleagues believe that only Chareidim are distorting Judaism today?

    Here is a brief comparison of halachic Torah Judaism with the invented MO feminist prenup religion. Can the MO rabbis honestly claim that they are not inventing their own feminist religion and calling it "Judaism"?

    1. Halachic Torah Judaism: "A wife who refuses to live with her husband is a moredes..." (Shulchan Aruch, Evan HaEzer 70:2)

    MO Feminist Prenup: "...from the date that our domestic residence together shall cease for whatever reasons" -
    ( Meaning that the wife can never be held responsible for rebelling against her husband. Instead the husband is automatically assumed guilty until proven innocent, and must pay the wife large sums of money that he probably does not owe her according to halacha.)

    2. Halachic Torah Judaism: "If a Jewish wife rebels against her husband (ie she is not living with him), she takes absolutely nothing from the husband...her husband is not required to provide for her sustenance...she forfeits her kesubah etc. etc." ( Hilchos Ishus, 14:10 and Shulchan Aruch, Evan HaEzer 77:2)

    MO Feminist Prenup: "If the couple separates (including if the wife rebels against her husband), the Jewish law obligation of the husband to support his wife is formalized, so that he is obligated to pay $150 per day (indexed to inflation)...

    3. Halachic Torah Judaism: "The wife's handiwork (her earnings) belong to the husband in return for his obligation to support his wife". (Shulchan Aruch, Evan HaEzer 69:4)

    MO Feminist Prenup: "Husband to be acknowledges that he recites and accepts the following: ... I waive my halakhic rights to my wife's earnings for the period that she is entitled to the above stipulated sum..."

    4. Halachic Torah Judaism: "How much does the husband provide his wife everyday (for sustenance IF she is not a rebellious wife)? Two meals of bread a day with vegetables, oil, fruit, etc..." (Shulchan Aruch, Evan HaEzer 70:3)

    MO Feminist Prenup: "he is obligated to pay (his wife) $150 per day (indexed to inflation)..."
    (Two meals of bread and vegetables cost $150 per day?)

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  16. Are you stupid, or did you simply not read Shapiro's post and sources before commenting?

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  17. The likes of folks such as Shapiro and fellow Hareidi-hater Samuel Heilman only focus on alleged misdeeds of their hated Hareidim. That the MO created a religion of its own far different that precedent is of no concern to them as that is what they prefer. But their official response to this point is that MO makes no claim to be histrocially traditionally true version of Judaism -- after all they do admit and even promote that they are modern -- so there is no need to disabuse them of any such notion.

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  18. @David you are wrong! - do you always give speeches about others without paying attention to what they actually say? - just as your recent negative comment claiming that Rav Zilberstein did not strongly alter Reb Moshe's psak - even though Rav Zilberstein admitted doing so.

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  19. Shapiro focuses heavily on alleged Hareidi misdeeds. If he was one's only reading material, you would end up with the mistaken impression that Hareidim represent 80% of worldwide Jewry.

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  20. Why don't you just read the actual post before asking all these questions that have been answered already?

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  21. Once again, read the post at seforim.blogspot.com. All your questions are addressed there.

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  22. Rabbi Eidensohn, in case you didn't notice, your citation above from the Seforim blog omitted this paragraph by Aryeh A. Frimer:

    "In the course of our own study of Women's Tefilla Groups, my brother R. Prof. Dov Frimer and I researched misrepresentation in pesak in the context of women's issues.[3] Many
    leading Rabbis were deeply and justifiably concerned that some of the
    feminist practices introduced were ultimately "bad for the Jews" on
    public policy grounds.[4] But
    instead of saying so clearly, some rabbis adduced reasons that were not
    halakhically sound. Our own research has led us to the clear conclusion
    that the vast majority of the gedolim do not condone this type of misrepresentation or that discussed in the last chapter of Changing the Immutable.
    Giving an erroneous ruling – despite one's good intentions, or even
    misstating the reason or source for a prohibition, violates the
    prohibition "mi-Devar sheker tirhak", if not a variety of other issurim."

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  23. Your comment has nothing to do with the topic of Shapiro's book. People have the right to enter into a contract of this type if they so please. One can be מתנה על מה שכתוב בתורה בדבר שבממון. If the MO people would print an edition of the Shulchan Aruch, replacing the words of the mechaber and Rama with their prenup conditions, that would be the type of matter Shapiro discusses.

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  24. @David - you are avoiding the fact that your statement of condemnation is not accurate.

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