NO SUBSTITUTE BEIS DIN IS ALLOWED
Tomorrow the 6th of August/10th of Av - Yoel Weiss has offered to give his wife Rivky a get if she shows up at the address of the Mill Basin Beis Din listed on the siruv that they issued him. But that offers is only if the same dayanim who signed on the siruv, write the get and obviously only if these dayanim are recognized as competent to write Gittin. For some unknown reason, Rivky has not responded to Yoel's offer - for 19 days so far - that she agrees to his terms and will show up.
However she has posted on her facebook page that she will show up with a gathering of Rabbis - no mention of the Original Mill Basin Three. She will be very disappointed if she insists on a Get without showing that her original Mill Basin Basin is a valid and an authoritative beis din. Trying to shame Yoel into using a substitute beis din is not going to work. Hopefully things will go as Yoel planned and she will be able to receive her Get.
Google Maps Street View of 1278 E 72nd Street
Google Maps Street View of 1278 E 72nd Street
=========================================
Rivky Stein has posted the following statement, about an hour ago, on her facebook page:
"Today is a day of great mourning for the Jewish people. May tomorrow be a day of great celebration!
Friends
and supporters of Rivky: It is appropriate that immediately following
Tisha B'Av, we are asking you to join us at a small, but important
gathering at 1278 E 72nd Street in Brooklyn, which is the Beit Din of
Mill Basin and Marine Park where Yoel Weiss agreed to show up for the
intention of giving Rivky Stein, his estranged wife, a Get.
Please plan to be there by 11:45 AM. We have convened a gathering of rabbis. Yoel has boasted that he will provide the Get. We say: Bring it On.
Yoel Weiss: Be a Mensch. Give your wife a Get, with no strings attached. May we be privileged to witness this event."
The language seems clear that she is admitting the "beit din" "dayanim" were fake and that she is now "convening a gathering of rabbis" who are not
the signors of the so-called beit din documents supposedly sent to
Yoeli. This is a complete disregard of Yoelis offer made right from the
get-go. It has to be the same beit din dayanim showing they are real and
this wasn't a farce by Rivky Stein and her cohorts. Suddenly in her
new statement she is demanding that Yoeli drop the condition this was
always based on.
Stein's above statement is also soliciting as
many people to show up to that address to support her. I think it is
vital for Yoeli to also bring a large contingent supporting him there
tomorrow (with recording equipment.)
[The original post on her facebook also said "Please
note that if Yoel is playing games, it might be necessary to relocate
to A SECOND location just 5 blocks away at 1278 E 77nd Street." This sentence was edited off [but is still visible if you click the "EDITED" link on top of the post.]
If
the original beit din was a fake, then even she will have to admit he
is under no requirement to give a Get as no beit din has been requested
to give a Get or ordered him to. He is still entitled to have a beis din
case between him and her to determine if a Get is warranted. A husband
is not under any halachic requirement to give a Get unless and until a
beis din orders as such after hearing testimony from both sides and
considering the facts and determining the halacha based on that. And
that certainly takes quite some time for a beis din to make a
determination. Of course Stein is entitled to have a beis din case with
Weiss once a beis din is agreed upon per halacha
If she shows up with a newfangled beis din, Yoeli should say he wants a Zabla Beis Din, as is his halachic right per Rav Moshe Feinstein, to hear the case and determine if his wife is entitled to a Get according to Jewish Law. Jewish Law does not support or mandate Get-on-demand.
ReplyDeleteI think he should show up with his own rabbis for a beis din. He will be coerced to give a get. He also wants to make sure the original seruv is revoked...but can it be done if the original three rabbis do not sign it?
ReplyDeleteWhy does it have to be zabl"a b"d? Why doesn't he have the right to pick any other existent B"D that he'd like to?
ReplyDeleteYoeli, dont give the GET tommorrow under coercion as it would be posul anyway. BTW i dont know of any other Bais Din outthere other than Rabbi Gestetner, Rabbi Abraham and perhaps Rabbi yisroel Knopfler from lakewood that would conduct a din torah strictly on DIN and fairness without FEMINISTIC influences. Therefore if you ever sign a shtar Beruruin elsewhere, you are endangering yourself.
ReplyDeleteGive a get ! If only for the following reason. The day after she recieves a get, she goes from celebrity, to divorced mom. You, on the other hand go from "angry man" to "available man". Don't see the draw to withhold in this case.
ReplyDeleteIt says in the גמרא as follows: שלא יהא אדם חוטא נשכר , I'd think: that it means: that we shouldn't let the sinner person gain/benefit from being a sinner, so not encourage/teach other sinners that it also pays to be a sinner too... (Pretty very sure that Daas Torah can better explain it).
ReplyDeleteNo question about it
Yoily should put down his foot all the way and strictly stick to his own commitment, no less no more, and mainly stick to the this Daas Torah Post; NO SUBSTITUTE B"D OTHER THAN MB SHOULD BE ACCEPTED TO YOU..!
ReplyDeleteUzi holds of Rav Gestetner. Toveah holech achar hanitvoh is how Rav Gestetner holds even in NY. Tell her she has to come to Rav Gestetner. Since she is in arko"oys sheli kdin Rav Gestetner will tell her to pay all Yoelli's legal expenses as required by shulchan oruch before she can have her say in bais din. This is my advice to Yoelli.
ReplyDeleteI think that would I be Yoily, I'd first send there to check if it's the original mbB"D, if it fact it is & they're ready to lift the סירוב\חרם , then Yoily should come over & stick to his commitment of the get, but if it's not the original B"D, but just a substitute b"d, Yoily should definitely not go in, not to put himself by the wrong place at the wrong time, when all his enemies and pro-feminism ppl, are gonna be there to bash, protest, humiliate, bully, hurt him etc... at max. and then they might coerce him to give a גט מעושה what will just have a status of an invalid get, and will cause איסור אשת איש and then ממזירים etc. what will be called in the language of the gemora based on the verse of koheles: מעוות לא יכול לתקון
ReplyDeletewhat means: a sin that can never be fixed, because the ממזירים fact can never disappear, there is no way in the world to remove from a child/person that status of ממזר once he was born from an אשת איש , and they won't be able to marry a regular Jewish person, but mamzeirim can marry between them: a mamzer with a mamzeres (if such a match is available); so we wouldn't like this to happen by Stein-Weiss, so we shouldn't need to add rivky & her future fam. to the mamzeirim list of the ones caused by Epstein, Wolmark, Goldstein, Belsky, Ralbag etc.
Yoily, if it's not exactly the same 3 Rabbis that signed your Seiruv etc., then שב ואל תעשה עדיף , run away from getting involved/coerced in any of the get proceedings. Don't let ppl brainwash you to let it go, bc Rivkah will definitely not stop her agenda of being רודף against you, like already proven today with that whole shtink she's planning against you Tod threw forgery of documents, B"D etc., and she's doing this the same day that you're coming with a good will to her to give her the get with that exact b"d that she herself picked by her own choice; so now קל וחומר that a day after you give in to give the get w/sub B"D, that she will for sure keep on the max רדיפות against you; believe I speak to you like to a very close brother, with little similar experience on my own, and by knowing even worse experience by other very חשובע ערליכע אידען that got brainwashed/convinced that once they'll give the get without any condition, then all the other details will work out very smoothly, but it came out not to be true, and a day after the get the now x-wife proceeded with the רשעות towards the father of her own children, like before (or even worse than before), לקיים:מפטירין האתמול ! So, Yoily pls don't redo the mistakes that other did and then had חרטה , but it was already too late bc they had already their rights עפ"י הלכה to have all details straightened out before the get.... a friend that is very concerned about your wellbeing... הצלחה רבה
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant to say is that she did forgery & fraud with a non existent B"D, and you don't have to be a Yoily supporter/friend, but even looking at it from a neutral point of view, you definitely realize/agree that this a very sin big time. Let her at least now realize that it doesn't pay & you don't get compensated for being such a big sinner + having caused such חילול ה etc. (Let Daas Torah correct me wherever it's needed)
ReplyDeleteYoel: Be careful today. Shira Dicker's facebook page for Rivky Stein made a new post a few minutes ago stating "The appropriate rabbis are on call."
ReplyDeleteSounds like they may try to pull a fast one on you and have three pretenders make believe they are the three original judges. Make sure you verify all three of their identities clearly with government identification.
And then make sure they are real qualified judges who have served regularly on other butei dinim.
What does "Zabla Beis Din" mean?
ReplyDeleteDear Yoily, pls don't give yourself in to go there (for a sub b"d) bc you'll be finding yourself to be trapped into the לייבען גרובּ & u then want be able to resist the pressure & humiliation etc. anymore; if it's not the orig. b"d, u don't owe her any promise. Period.
ReplyDeleteCan someone set up a live stream, or at least make sure this event is filmed?
ReplyDeleteIt means that each side chooses one dayan and those two dayanim choose the third dayan. According to halacha (Igros Moshe, etc.) anyone involved in or summoned to beis din has the halachic right to insist that the beis din be zabla.
ReplyDeleteGood points !
ReplyDeleteThanks. This is very dramatic. Can't wait to see the result of today's meeting.
ReplyDeleteIs this really happening now? redeemrivky on facebook has a picture of her with a dayan! Is he one of the three? What location was the picture taken from? Hatzlacha! I do agree to give the get assuming everything else is taken care of!
ReplyDeleteI was there.. only Rivky and a soffer showed up( and some of rivky's people).. "NO Bais Din showed up", ....
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/RedeemRivky/photos/a.479399565495693.1073741830.458133107622339/479399545495695/?type=1&theater
Daas Torah or anyone that knows what's going on by e72 should pls post....!
ReplyDeletewho are the «appropriate rabbis» ?
Is it peaceful? Is it violent? Is it like a rally? Etc etc.
I s r & Mrs Holtsberg there too ?
Any organization?
Any media/mainstream?
How many supporters for each side ?
Etc etc etc
Please keep posting all the updates !
Pls post us with the latest updates !
ReplyDeleteWhat's happening ?
ReplyDeleteOne problem. Ms. Stein's representative told JTA that the rabbis were "stuck in traffic"! The rabbis didn't show up!
ReplyDeleteA different rabbi there claimed to have signed documents from the origional three rabbis removing their excommunication.
It doesn't look like he showed up. The beis din and sofer were there. I would like to see how you people can defend him now. Maybe you should change your widget to, how many people were fooled by this gimmick.
ReplyDeleteYoel didn't show up. Why not? I guess we'll hear about it later, but I'm impatient.
ReplyDelete"Rivky
ReplyDeleteis sitting at the Beit Din of Marine Park and Mill Basin located at
1278 E 72nd Street Brooklyn, NY 11234 waiting WITH THE DAYANIM FROM THE
BEIT DIN" - this was posted on the RedeemRivky Facebook page. However the bogus seruv documents Rivky posted did NOT list this address where Rivky appeared.
A Brooklyn dayan told me that Rivky's "seruv" document was "pure fraud". The seruv document address was "1278 East 77nd St.". Then Rivky claimed she "walked over to 1278 77th St.", and she accused Yoel of being a liar for not appearing. However the 1278 East 77nd St. address does not appear to exist in Google Maps or Mapquest! Also, where are the "dayanim" named in the seruv?
Who are the rabbi's that showed up with her, purportedly her beit din, that are pictured on her Facebook? Why didn't yoel show up to ascertain their identities and walk away if they are substitutes?
ReplyDeleteSo, in the end, Mr. Weiss did not show up... Quite a typical behavior for abusive husbands who try to control their wife even once she left him.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations for standing so strong with Mr. Weiss. It really gives "daas torah" a good name.
I think it is time for you now to remove the "Yoel offered a get"-counter...
I think this post makes some terrible points, because none of it refutes the most basic fact: a Get should be given without conditions when it is clear a marriage is over. Period. It is abusive to withhold it, or to use the Get as leverage for particular conditions to be met.
ReplyDeleteTo quote from above: "This is a complete disregard of Yoelis offer made right from the get-go. It has to be the same beit din dayanim showing they are real and this wasn't a farce by Rivky Stein and her cohorts. Suddenly in her new statement she is demanding that Yoeli drop the condition this was always based on."
I'm sorry, his "offer"? That must be referring to the ultimatum in which he claimed 'this is Rivky's only chance for a Get'. And in the FB statement on Rivky's page, no demand or condition is referred to. There are supposed to be no conditions for a Get, remember?
If Yoel is so concerned with giving the Get and that is his true intention (as claimed), why didn't he show up today as promised? He apparently did not show up based on an inference from the post on Rivky's FB page, that the B"D that convened today was not the one on the Seruv- that's an assumption, not a fact. If he's so concerned with verification, why didn't he bother verifying? It would have been straightforward to do that in person.
It's clear from his behavior that this is just another run-around, an excuse to not give a Get. And that is wrong to do.
There are two rabbis pictured with her. One is Rabbi Lichter the well-know scribe.
ReplyDeleteShe is pictured with three rabbis!!!
ReplyDelete@KM you are ignorant of the halacha. Yoel has no obligation to give a get at this point according to Rav Moshe Feinstein. The rest of your comment is wrong or irrelevant because of this ignorance of both halacha and the facts of this case.
ReplyDelete@Daas Torah, which ruling/responsum/writing of R' Moshe Feinstein are you basing your statement on? Please cite the source.
ReplyDeleteGive me a few days to dig up the actual sources to refute your statement, but for the moment, it's important to note that the only relevant facts are:
1) The woman has clearly stated that she wants a Get
2) The marriage is de facto over
When those two things happen, a husband is supposed to give a Get. They have happened in this case, therefore the Yoel should be giving the Get.
The ruling that the giving of the Get is the *last* process in the gittin/divorce procedure.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, under halacha a husband has no obligation or mandate to give his wife a Get simply because she wants a Get and asked for one.
Thirdly, please cite any halacha that says there is any prohibition against a husband offering a Get conditionally.
And lastly, regarding your initial a comment, Stein ADMITTED that the "beis din" that showed up last week was NOT the original beis din. She claims two of the original three showed up (and she had one replacement member) while he maintains they told him on the phone that none of the three were there. Either way everyone acknowledges the original three weren't all there. And Weiss never agreed to a replacement beis din. And Stein cannot impose her chosen beis din upon the other party to the case (Weiss) against his will. Halachicly, both parties get input into the composition of the beis din. One party cannot halachicly impose their choice upon the other party.
Stein ADMITTED that the "beis din" that showed up last week was NOT the original beis din. She claims two of the original three showed up (and she had one replacement member) while he maintains they told him on the phone that none of the three were there. Either way everyone acknowledges the original three weren't all there. And Weiss never agreed to a replacement beis din. And Stein cannot impose her chosen beis din upon the other party to the case (Weiss) against his will. Halachicly, both parties get input into the composition of the beis din. One party cannot halachicly impose their choice upon the other party.
ReplyDelete