update from Pursuit of Honesty: For all those that thought this may never come, and/or thought the Dodelsons make any sense, Check out 'Act Two. Sunrise, Sun-Get.' from This American Life episode 516: 'Stuck In The Middle.' http://tal.fm/516/2 At about 27 minutes in.... Note: This is after the letter from R' Shmuel demanding that this stops!
Sunrise, Sun-Get.
Mark Oppenheimer reports on agunah in the Orthodox Jewish community. An agunah is a woman whose husband refuses to give her a divorce – in Hebrew it means "chained wife." If you're an Orthodox Jew, strictly following Jewish law, the only real way to get divorced is if your husband agrees to hand you a piece of paper called a get. Without the get, women who want out of their marriages can stay chained to their husbands for years. In New York, a couple of rabbis were recently accused of using violence to force men to give their wives a get. Mark writes the Beliefs column for The New York Times.
What happened to the as of yet unbroadcast material that Shira Dicker generated in her massive PR attack on the Weiss/Feinstein family?
Hopefully the material was cancelled and won't undermine the negotiations that have been going on. However I keep hearing rumors that both are still coming out in the not too distant future.
Times of Israel November 8 2013 reported
On Rosh Hashanah, Dicker sent out an e-blast with an image of an apple in chains. And instead of sending out conventional press releases, Dicker wrote personalized memos to specific reporters.The combination of these targeted missives, together with viral marketing of the anti-agunah message, has reaped (as of yet unpublished) interviews of Dodelson by a New York Times reporter and for NPR’s “This American Life” program.
Let the reshanta wither on the vine. He should get a Heter Meah, deposit a Get with a handpicked beis din that will only hand it over once she meets his (justified) requirements, and get remarried while she is still deciding whether to pick up the Get.
ReplyDeleteIf my understanding is correct, according to Rav Moshe ztl, E'H 4:3, no heter meah rabbanim can be granted until a get is deposited in beis din for the woman to pick up, with no strings attached and irrespective of any outstanding monetary issues. DT - is that correct? [I don't have the I'M in front of me but recall that E'H 4:3 is the correct source for my understanding per your Yad Moshe.]
DeleteAbsolutely. Just forget the fact that Rav Moshe holds that is halachicly unacceptable- something pointed out countless times on this blog.
DeleteHe can go with another shitta that would allow him to receive a Heter Meah Rabbonim and deposit a Get in a beis din he chooses and composes, and that his beis din will only give her the Get is she meets his requirements.
DeleteAt least, then, he can remarry right away without having to wait for her.
Other poskim allow this Heter Meah. He can go with their shitta.
This is what AMW's defenders have come to. "He can go with another shitta" LOL
Delete100% right on. IF ORA can declare tamar is FREE, why not free AMW al pi HALACHA with Heter meah rabbonim al achas pi kamah. It would be only fare not to be MEAGEN AMW. After all, only he is metsuve veose for pru urvu and not her. Once he tried everything possible to reconcile unsuccessfully, it is time to move on with life. You cannot force anyone to keep on trying forever, and if that's what it takes, so be it. As for his conditions upon when she can pick up her get, if those conditions are coming to him al pi torah, you cannot circumvent. Or there is another alternative having made a chiyuv psak din for a Get, utilize Epstein Wolmark force, kidnappings, cattle prods, karate experts, you know, kol dealim gvar type of things. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the Gander, Huh ORA.
DeleteOK, if you think its ok to ignore rulings from R Moshe that are quite explicit, it sort of undermines your argument that others are willing to ignore normative halacha.
DeleteNot everything is clear cut. Each case is individual on itsown merits, and it is not meikar hadin of Chdra"g. DID R' Moshe matir cattle prods, beatings etc.Just the same as AMW's conditions are negotiable by Halacha for a Get, if she keeps on refusing, that is why Chadra"g is there for. You don't have to trade in or relinquish your legitimate rights for something that is yours, in obtaining a Heter Meah. Suppose G stole 10 Mil from A, and she refuses a Get, must A relinquish his money to obtain a Heter? Ken hadavar hahu.
DeleteIt would seem that it is you against R Moshe. Good place to be young man.
Deletejust to clarify AMW would never use this idea because R' moshe holds one may not and as many times as people say he can he won't because he doesn't pick and choose who he holds like just because it's convenient
Delete@ Dovevos, shimi,
DeleteUnconditional and with Total respect for R' Moshe
Since I do not have R' Moshe's quote handy, can you please give it to me in his EXACT words where he states no Heter meah al tnay beshum panim veoifen, along with the source as to why, I will much appreciate. DO other poskim matir such? What is R' Moshe's deah on Epstein Wolmark prods or any kind of kofin osah on HER, after refusing a psak of chiyuv Get? Thank you.
Use a Yad Moshe.
DeleteCan you please explain your motivation in bringing these topics and 'sensationalist' headlines to your blog?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the purpose of this post? All it does is remind people that there are people out there dealing with tough issues. Why dredge it up?
Gital is the one completely responsible for this situation being in the public eye and discussed. Gital hired a irreligious P.R. hack to publicize this case with impunity. Gital wrote a hatchet article in the shmutzy New York Post. Gital is publicly attacking her husband ceaselessly in public.
DeleteGital is responsible.
Gital was also in the grassy knoll in Dealey Plaza down in Texas, right?
DeleteGITAL IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!
Dovevos,
DeleteBy bringing up a completely irrelevant story, you don't show yourself to be honest. Are you suggesting that Gittel is not behind her website, her facebook page, her NY Prost article, her NPR interview or her NY Times article??
No I agree with you. Gital also knows what happened in Roswell but won't say.
DeleteGITAL IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!
Gital is irresponsible!
DeleteExactly!!! GITAL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR BEING IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!
DeleteIt was only a matter of time before this led to violence:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.njjewishnews.com/article/20534/rabbi-becomes-target-for-backing-aguna#.UtbMiRA2Kt4
We need to ask who was behind this? Are the Feinstein's ordering this? Is anyone on this blog behind these threats? If the Feinsteins dont apologize and get to the bottom of this, can we assume they are involved?
I mean, if alleged violence against Aharon is somehow blamed on RHS, cant we do the same here?
Don't be so worried about an apikorus Conservative so-called "rabbi".
DeleteWhy is Gital soliciting support from apikorsum like this Mr. Robert Wolkoff and the other apikorus Reform Shira Dicker? This is a halachic dispute that these irreligious apikorsum should not be involved in altogether. Yet Gital brings them in.
Since when do other's actions fall onto my plate? The calls against R' Reuven Feinstein, Reb. Sheila & Artscroll were far nastier!
Deletejames; why should the feinsteins apologize he did something terribly wrong like that without knowing the halacha or the facts he pays the price so why should they apologize for something they didn't do
DeleteSo your point is that the threats of violence and harassment are OK because he isnt Orthodox. Or is it that he is lying?
DeleteI tend to think he is telling the truth and threats are not justified.
"Ben Torah" (lol) if you read the story you will see that she didn't solicit his support. But don't let facts get in your way.
DeletePursuit- did someone say it should fall onto your plate? They said it was Weiss/Feinsteins problem. Unless you are a Weiss/Feinstein, I don't see why it should concern you.
DeleteShimi, I'm not sticking up for a conservative rabbi, but what was "terribly wrong" about a guy writing a letter that more or less agrees with the position of most of the Moetzes?
DeleteThe Feinsteins and Weisses have not called for violence against anyone.
DeleteIn contrast, Rabbi Hershel Schachter wrote a letter specifically calling for Aharon to be beaten or killed - as has been previously noted on this blog.
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/04/rav-schachter-i-relied-on-rav.html
Shimi,
DeleteYour attitude about "paying the price" is scary. It is justifying violence.
bob,
RHS was not calling for violence. You would have to be completely prejudiced to read that letter in that way. The entire point of creating ORA was to not have to do those things. The only evidence we have of people breaking the law and resorting to violence is in the haredi community.
We know that the Feinstein/weiss family is engaged in a pr war just like the dodelsons. They are responsible for their troops. You want an example of calling for violence, read Shimi's comment above. He thinks this man deserves to "pay the price."
RDE,
In the post Bob linked to you said that RHS was acting contrary to the accepted halacha. If the majority of poskim in america sign on a letter stating that Weiss should be ostracized, and we can find support for that position in the Rishonim (Rambam and Gaonim and all of Torah Jewry for 500 years) isnt that the accepted halacha? How many more people have to accept it? RHS thinks he is acting within the boundaries of RT (not even relying on the Rambam). If enough people agree, isnt that accepted halacha?
RHS said that Aharon had the same status as a former slave who the gemara says should be beaten. He then pulled out of context a quote from a nearby gemara to explicitly say that anyone could take it upon themselves to beat Aharon.
DeleteIt would not be the only time that RHS has called for violence.
Ordering a Get on demand and for no good reason, is also an act of violence. There is not one normal person that would ever marry someone that would one day wake up and demand a Get without good reason. You don't just abandon a marriage and children, just becasuse you want! For heaven's sake, "Gam tanin choltsu shad".
DeleteBob,
DeleteIf I label someone a mechalel shabbos who the gemara says should be killed am I calling for violence?
If you make clear that you are referring to a specific person and then add in a statement from another gemara that anyone can appoint themselves the messenger of beis din to deliver the punishment, than yes.
DeleteWhether there
There is a fine line between expressing an abstract religious opinion, and advocating violence or other illegal activity;
Delete"Notwithstanding that political speech and religious exercise are among the activities most jealously guarded by the First Amendment, one is not immunized from prosecution for such speech-based offenses merely because one commits them through the medium of political speech or religious preaching. Of course, courts must be vigilant to insure that prosecutions are not improperly based on the mere expression of unpopular ideas. But if the evidence shows that [*49] the speeches crossed the line into criminal solicitation, procurement of criminal activity, or conspiracy to violate the laws, the prosecution is permissible. See United States v. Spock, 416 F.2d 165, 169-71 (1st Cir. 1969)."
UNITED STATES v. RAHMAN.
@Bob - Your points are excellent! James is apparently doing damage control for ORA and RHS.
DeleteIn my opinion, there is evidence ORA is involved with stalking, harassing, and coercing Jewish husbands into performing religious acts the husbands do not consent to. If it can be proven that the wives of these husbands are contributing money to ORA, is it possible ORA's actions would constitute some type of criminal activity?
I challenge you to find one person in that room who thinks he was calling for violence.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteI am in no was related to the Weisses or Feinsteins.
My point was simple, why should someone have to responsibility for other people's actions? Its not like they called for action, as the Dodelsons did.
By trying to ignore my point you just come to prove how close minded you are!
dovevos; i'm not going to argue about most of the moetzes now but the fact still remains that he didn't know the halacha or facts before sending the letter
DeleteRabbi Schachter issued a letter calling for violence. What room are you referring to?
DeleteAnd it is also notable that Rabbi Schachter added his signature to the absurd "seruv" signed by Rabbi Wolmark, who has since been arrested by the FBI. And it was no secret even before the arrests by the FBI that Rabbi Wolmark was involved in this sort of activity. There is every reason to believe that Rabbi Schachter meant to incite violence.
Shimi, I dont care for Conservative rabbis but how do you know he doesnt know the facts?
DeleteIn which letter does he call for violence?
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteThat's what the article claims...
dovevos; yes i do and i was from these people "In some cases, however, the callers “were reasonable and asked a halachic [Jewish legal] question and left a number to call somebody back.” and he even told me he doesn't know the facts
DeleteSo shimi, you personally got involved to call and harrass someone related to this sad saga?
Deletedovevos;this is a direct quote from him and i said i was from these people why do you insist on attacking me saying i was harassing him "In some cases, however, the callers “were reasonable and asked a halachic [Jewish legal] question and left a number to call somebody back.”
Deleteok, what was your halachic question that you called to ask a conservative rabbi?
DeleteIt is my understanding that the Dodelsons have been working hard to keep them from being published as they are still hopeful that these negotiations would bear fruit. They do not control the content, however- much like they had no editorial control over the NYPost, so any delay is only a courtesy and the outlets can choose to run it at any time.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand, Rabbi, why you think this would undermine the negotiations? They don't control these media companies so it wouldn't be as if they are acting in bad faith.
It would seem to me that if Weiss were to pull out of a negotiation that has been more or less stalled over the last two months due to Weiss adding more and more conditions, that pulling out now would prove that they were never really serious about resolving this.
What would stop Dodelson at that point from publishing a complete timeline with all the added demands from the Weiss side?
As an aside, how is a media outlet running a story that they've been sitting on for months something that Weiss can hold against Dodelson, but the countless postings of accusations, edited documents, & no holds barred attacks in the comment sections on this very blog not something that should be held against the Weiss's?
If Dodelson hasn't pulled out after all that was posted about her on this blog, it strikes me as very disengenuos of Weiss to hold them to a higher standard than the one they expect from themselves.
Note the difference: Weiss has no control over this website and what it posts... the Dodelsons on the other hand DO have control over their website, Facebook page, and of course who they decide to give interviews with...
DeleteNow why does "If Dodelson hasn't pulled out after all that was posted about her on this blog, it strikes me as very disengenuos of Weiss to hold them to a higher standard than the one they expect from themselves." make any sense?
The difference is that Gital actively sought these media outlets, gave interviews to these gentile press outlets and herself wrote a demeaning attack article in the shmutzy NY Post. In addition she hired an irreligious P.R. hack to viciously attack her husband and his entire extended family.
DeleteOTOH, the Weiss never solicited any public support and never even made a public pronouncement of their side of the dispute.
Pinchas, how do you know that the Weisses are adding more and more conditions? It doesnt surprise me but can you provide evidence? Do you know the mediators personally?
DeleteIf you do know them or have proof, I think this can put to rest the lie that AMW is acting reasonably.
pinchas; your comment is ludicrous and filled with lies of course the dodelsons are to blame for this article they asked for it and they are to blame for anything and everything that's in the article and that weiss is adding more things is absolutely not true the only thing that happened is when she backed out of her half of the deal he said that if so we are back to where we were before because otherwise he's giving it up unilaterally and he's not interested in giving things up for nothing and this blog doesn't compare to the chilul hashem that she created besides that he never created this blog
DeletePursuit of Honesty, we are talking about interviews GD gave before the negotiations began. If the NYT publishes it, it is no different than DT publishing some information or documents that originated by Weiss but now is totally under NYT control? & to compare the vitriol in the posts over the last two months here with the benign postings on free Gital is willful ignorance
DeleteBen Torah, if you think an email that was sent to Yisroel Weiss that was posted here somehow made it on this blog without his knowledge, I have a bridge to sell you.
DeleteJames, I don't know anyone personally, I can only tell you what I've heard from the Kolah delo posik in the street. I know people who know people on both sides & it doesn't seem like that is even in dispute. It seems that Weiss thinks that they have justification to act this way- after all, they are right even if they don't give a get at all.
DeletePinchas, those came out looooong after the Dodelson were fully engaged in a P.R. war against the entire extended Weiss mishpacha and Gital wrote a shmutzy NY Post article against them.
DeletePinchas, Negotiations have pre-existed the NYPost article, by months... It was the Dodelsons that were forced to come back to the table after they have publicized their garbage...
DeleteSee R' Ronie's letters and the dates...
They gave interviews to the NYT & NPR, they can (and should) prevent them from going public... Just don't forget that their basis of going public is based on R' Shmuel Kamenetzky's Kol Korei, and he has since publicized a letter stating "It was brought to my attention that the public smear campaign against the Weiss family continues with my support. It is not supported by me and the campaign should cease and desist. It is unacceptable".
Regarding the posts: Apparently you haven't seen their Facebook posts and the comments on them...
Can you give an example of adding conditions?
DeleteNegotiations with Weiss via R Sholom Kamenetzky are only 2 months old. Don't spit in the wind and tell me its raining (or some variation of that- Ayin Judge Judy)
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteEvery read the letters from R' Ronnie Greenwald?
dovevos; but there are many months of negotiations that happened before that dodelson backed out because she decided it wasn't good enough for her
DeleteYes I read the letters- especially the one where he said that Dodelson never came to him to arbitrate.
Deleteand Shimi- I don't think you have a complete grasp of the facts. Just because you heard Weiss's side of the story (which includes Dodelson having a nanny that has a big red dog named Clifford which licks Aryeh Weiss) doesnt mean it is true.
Dovevos,
DeleteHe wrote that in regards to who was the one to actually approach him originally. However, the back and forth emails between RRG and Dodeson's lawyer that were made public, make it clear that there were negotiations prior to her article in the NY Post.
dovevos; the facts about the nanny and her dog that licks aryeh (no his name isn't clifford) i actually heard from the only person that is on both sides
DeleteRight. you claim that Aryeh Weiss told you that his mother has a big red dog named clifford who licked him when he went to visit Emily Elizabeth..
DeleteWhy doesn't Gital just get an annulment from RSK?
ReplyDeletemichelob; because RSK doesn't back her anymore and told her to stop her smear campaign but she doesn't listen so it changed from fooling gedolim to get them on her side to going against the gedolim she claimed to rely on
DeleteShimi- that is an out and out LIE. do you have no shame? Anyone can feel free to cal R Shmuel, or R Sholom and they will refute this monster who seems to do nothing else but post falsehoods on this blog.
DeleteRSK is extraordinarily close to the Epstein family.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteDid you see R' Shmuel's follow up letter?
dovevos; how dare you blatantly call the facts out and out lies
DeleteI saw the letter, i also heard from a relative of R SHolom afterwards that R SHmuel never changed his position regarding the Dodelson family. anyone can call him themselves to confirm. Shimi insisting that it isn't true doesnt change that.
DeleteDovevos, since that doesn't seem to be what I heard from him, Please submit some proof to that.
DeleteHere is the proof of what I am saying:
DeleteAnyone can feel free to call R Shmuel or R Sholom & verify. That's what I say. The Weiss side insists that you shouldn't because they already did. I say you can& should verify it yourself.
Dovevos, I personally have no interest bothering them, as for their work is hard enough as it is. You can either provide a recording or a letter proving your claims....
DeleteObviously you have to keep in mind that when dealing with immature arguments, they have no interest in upsetting either side, which will undermine their current negotiations...
And yes, when Gital added in ridiculous lines such as, "if his Yeshiva allows" to the line about Skype, that creates unnecessary immature arguments, that prevent this issue from ending...
"Dovevos, since that doesn't seem to be what I heard from him, Please submit some proof to that."
DeleteSo you claim to have heard something from him, but then you say that "I personally have no interest bothering them" as a way to get out of my point.
DeleteFact: anyone can be mevarer on their own.
if you are too lazy to do so, you deserve to be misinformed.
Aryeh/Dovevos, "what I heard from him" doesn't mean I called him and bothered him, I happen to have met him at an event and "I heard from him" on this topic... Once again you sound like a little child... either publicize your proof, or your bluff was called...
DeleteBut your statement: "if you are too lazy to do so, you deserve to be misinformed" proves that your intent is to misinform!!!
How intimidated you must be from me that you need to say i am someone i am not in order to distract from the fact that you posted a lie. My proof is this- anyone can call R Shmuel or R Sholom. not you- you could care less what they say. I say any reader can call.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteSo you ignore my point that your statement: "if you are too lazy to do so, you deserve to be misinformed" proves that your intent is to misinform!!!
Thank you!
If that's the logical inference you make from that statement, it is no wonder you think AMW is being reasonable.
Deletereworded with the Peirush Artscroll for the benefit of the Weiss's;
If you are to lazy to contact any of the Kamenetzky's you deserve to be misinformed by the likes of POH and the rest of the Weiss clan who insist you should not call for yourself because they already did.
I dont fear people calling themselves, because anyone who does will get confirmation of what I say. POH insists you should believe him. Much like a cult leader. (very passig- are you a "talmid" in Yosaif Asher's "yeshiva")
Dovevos,
DeleteThe Wiesses never controlled me nor have they ever said anything to me about "not calling any of the Rabbi Kamenetzkys because they called already"... It's all a fabrication of what your little mind can think up, to make the Weisses seem like they are idiots, when in fact it's quite the contrary...
Nope never was a talmid in R' Yosaif Asher's yeshiva... Nor was I ever a Talmid in Yeshiva of Staten Island...
What I find disgusting about all these public divorces is that they are no different than any other Goyish acromonious divorce. The only difference is that the Jewish women can add more fuel to the fire by playing the AGUNA card and raising false sympathy for them and anger towards the men. This serves only to alienate men even more from marriage to American Women.
ReplyDeleteWhat false sympathy is there when a guy won't engage in good conscience negotiations with his ex wife who is only conceding anything because he is witholding a get after he refused to come to beis din after he abused her after he only married her for her money.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteAll the claims you made are false sympathy!
dovevos; there isn't one truth in your comment
DeleteDovevos -- When did you stop beating your wife?
DeleteGood question. I happen to be a bochur. try again.
DeleteAlso, sayin what I say isnt true is silly. try backing up your posting with facts.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteThat explains where your lack of intelligence & knowledge comes from!
dovevos; so stop beating your sister
Deletei was saying that everything you said in your comment is a blatant lie
Very, very teeeeef!!!!
DeleteRDE- why wasnt my respectful comment/question posted?. please explain the daas torah reason for your post about the NYT & NPR article . what is the purpose? as "y" above asked. thank you
ReplyDeletebecause it wasn't in comments to be moderated. If I don't receive your comments I can't post them
Deleteif you have any understanding of the situation then it is obvious. If you don't know what is going on then I suggest you find something else to read.
DeleteI've posted a few times to different blogs on this thread using Firefox as a browser. Every time, my comment seems to be posted, but disappears into a black-hole and never gets to the blog owner.
DeleteThe poster thinks he has commented, he appears to have commented, but the comment is irretrievably lost !!!
Posting identically using Internet Explorer as the browser works without problem.
So do not post comments using Firefox as your browser - you think you have posted, but your comment will never get to the blog owner !
Daas Torah, you wrote:
Delete"if you have any understanding of the situation then it is obvious. If you don't know what is going on then I suggest you find something else to read."
What is obvious about WHY you CONTINUE to publish sensationalist 'articles' that pose irrelevant questions about an issue that has lost steam...?
The dodelson's shot their bullet with the post article, boosted their facebook likes, and kept it going a liiiitle longer with newsday etc...
No one cares anymore. Let the families deal with their issues in private, as they should have always done!
I have posted many comments using Firefox without any problems at all. Firefox is far superior to Internet Explorer.
Delete@y
DeleteDT is the best Antidote against ORA! ORA and all ra must go. Are you kidding me, 'tis DT has been the best invention since sliced bread, actually, even better than sliced bread.They keep on reinventing themselves from cattle prods, FREE declarations, frivolous annulments, to pain away Torah & Yiddentum. They must be eradicated from the face of the earth, ad sheyomar rotse ani. There has been too much violence and Torah trampling committed in their name. They need to taste their own medicine. And thank you Rabbis Eidensohn for letting us contribute our share.
Husbands/Fathers are not hefker! BTW, what's happening with the ORA Bandits, the Epsteins, the Wolmarks and their Goon squads. IS there any follow up that is going on behind the scenes? How can you fetch them on webcrims or equivalent? Anybody, please.
Shimi is obviously not ready for Prime Time.
ReplyDeletedovevos; care to explain?
DeleteFor all those that thought this may never come, and/or thought the Dodelsons make any sense, Check out 'Act Two. Sunrise, Sun-Get.' from This American Life episode 516: 'Stuck In The Middle.' http://tal.fm/516/2 At about 27 minutes in....
ReplyDeleteNote: This is after the letter from R' Shmuel demanding that this stops!
DT - Your update of
ReplyDelete"update from Pursuit of Honesty: For all those that thought this may never come, and/or thought the Dodelsons make any sense, Check out 'Act Two. Sunrise, Sun-Get.' from This American Life episode 516: 'Stuck In The Middle.' http://tal.fm/516/2 At about 27 minutes in.... Note: This is after the letter from R' Shmuel demanding that this stops!"
Does NOT work. There is NO VIDEO that is there for this.
I was able to listen to the audio, don't know if there is anything to "watch".... just go to the right section and click play...
DeleteIt was on my phone...
DeleteI don't see the Play button for this. The only audio on the link is hold music.
Delete??
i also dont hear anything other than 5 min. of music.
Deletewhats the story?!
Please stop using my posting name. It is childish and infantile.
DeleteOnly seems to work on mobile website as of now...
DeleteFirst of all, Mark Oppenheimer has been writing about this for a while and these pieces are in development for months before going on air so I am not sure R' Shmuel's directive pertains to this. Some of the interviews are over a year old.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I think it is clear that AMW was never intending to give a GET and never intended to arbitrate in good faith.
Third, we now know that he was asking for up to $2Million! What a lowlife.
Fourth, before anyone says this is a chillul hashem - listen to the whole recording and ask yourself who is the cause of the chillul hashem. I think the vast majority of listeners will conclude that Gittel is the victim and AMW the source of the chillul hashem. It is time he just give her a get and save us all from this nonsense.
James,
DeleteContradicting yourself proves you to be rather ridiculous... One the one hand you claim "Some of the interviews are over a year old" on the other hand you write "we now know that he was asking for up to $2Million! What a lowlife." The Dodelsons haven't claimed he wanted 1/2 - $2 Million anywhere else... had they honestly thought that was the amount he wanted, they would have used it against him... What they could have meant was that he is costing them $2 Million Dollars between attempting to hire Wolmark, hiring Mamzeres Dicker, mailings and more...
R' Shmuel writes: "It is not supported by me and the campaign should cease and desist. It is unacceptable"... I don't know why this wouldn't fall into that category...
Where do you pick up your second point from???
Your 4th point is also ludicrous! Gital is the only one that made this case go public, she is the only one that keeps on feeding the media & public... Note how they keep on saying how they tried to reach the Weisses for responses, but the Wiesses have intention in making a private case public! Obviously, if I told you one side of any story without giving you the other side, you would give the first side sympathy.
Its time to learn how to think for yourself and not take journalism so literally!
james; and on what basis do you falsly accuse AMW of never intending to give a get and never intending to arbitrate in good faith which is absolutely false because it's gital who's not arbitrating in good faith and stop making up such amounts of money that are not true and if it would have had the slightest amount of truth to it it would have been in the post article
Deletelook i can write a run on scentence that makes no sense like shimi because if i do maybe people wont realize that just like everything else he posts this last one has no toichen other than that he said nuh-uh like he does in every comment he must think hes very sharp because he can answer every time someone posts because all he needs to do is start typing even if he says things that have no shaychis and are total bilbul nobody ever reads past the first two words becuase if they would they would get a headache he must have a lot of free time in Staten Island Yeshiva and there must be so much time to post comments on blogs for avrohom meir and all his freinds so yeah uh huh
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteImpressive! In other words you have no response! Shtika K'Hodaa!
AMW did not respond to Mark Oppenheimer. Shtika K'Hodaa!
DeleteDovevos AKA Dodelson:
DeleteYou keep on running away from the facts. When you're afraid others are seeing the truth, you seek to make a lame attempt at obscuring it.
Buddy, you may feel as if you've won a battle or two. But that is about it. This all makes you look bad and will continue to hurt you. Where has any of this gotten you?
I will just point out that your comment is short on toichen other than accusing me of being someone whom I am not. But its ok, Avroham Meir, everyone knows you dont do anything all day anyways other than obsess over Gital & her friends.
DeleteJames,
DeleteRead my response to your fourth claim...
james; i don't know if you realize but the weisses are not interested in having a debate in the media about their private feud and therefore they don't respond to them
DeleteReally? Are you saying they havent ever cooperated with this blog or issued statements/facts through this blog?
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteYou couldn't have proven more how immature you are, then by stating "But its ok, Avroham Meir, everyone knows you dont do anything all day anyways other than obsess over Gital & her friends"... Come on! Grow up! Say something with substance!
James,
What about "I am in no was related to the Weisses or Feinsteins. My point was simple, why should someone have to take responsibility for other people's actions?" Don't you understand?
When the people like myself choose to comment here, there is no reason the Weisses should be blamed!
dovevos is clearly malkiel dodelson - the curt, know it all, condescending tone - no question about it. and his being a bochur - true - vehamayvin yavin.
ReplyDeleteyankel fun mikkeys kave shteeb
Im not sure why DT posts a comment that falsely asserts who I am & smears a member of the Dodelson family, while not posting my response to said assertion.
DeleteCan someone point out using plain words & facts how anything said in the interview fits the description of a "smear" as defined by Websters dictionary?
ReplyDeleteLets start with the "1/2 million - $2 Million" claim: For some reason these numbers just appeared... there is no evidence to those claims!
DeleteNext, They never went to Epstein?!?!?!? I personally witnessed the meeting between the Dodelsons and Rabbi Mordechai Wolmark!!! Rabbi Wolmark was the one who said he wouldn't work on their case!
Next, they claim they took him to Bais Din, however they fail to mention that they never summoned him to Bais Din for a Get!
That's called Smearing!!!!
I had heard $2 million over a year ago, along with some other, franky, sick demands.
Deletenext- you were there when they met with Wolmark? I guess (if what you are saying is true, which is highly doubtful) they now know exactly who you are
third- you keep harping on that, but it doesn't change the fact that he is a sarvan.
And still, these are not "smears". these are statements of fact.
I heard $175 Million demanded.
DeleteDovevos,
Delete"over a year ago", therefore what? That doesn't mean it has any legitimacy... what was the $350k all about then?
Yes I was! Now what? You make it sound like I should now be afraid of someone/something... As the Wiesses and those closely involved have been attacked... Thank God I'm self-employed! ;-)
Third, Yes I keep harping that fact b/c it makes a whole lot of a difference... I know you think you're a maven in Agunos & Gittin, but if basi Din never summoned AM for a Get there is no chance that forcing him to give a Get should be allowed, no matter what a (recalled) kol Korei claims! A Get given under such circumstances is probably going to be Pasul! In regards to the siruv, it had no basis to be written, and was mevutal anyway!
Obviously, you won't want to admit that its "Smearing", b/c you want to claim all the "facts" are true... however since they aren't, and they are intended to make AMW sound like a terrible human being, it would fall into the simple definition of "Smears"!
POH
Delete1)in any negotiation, parties start out with a demand and slowly back down from what they want as they see that they wont get it. AMW started with demands like 2 mil & full custody (besides demanding that Gital come back to him) and since that has been whittled down.
2)Sure. Wolmark/Epstein took the FBI case wherin the husband didnt exist, but refused to take the Dodelson/Weiss case because.....?
3)You don't recognize the legitimacy of the BD that found AMW to be a mesarev- something the Feinsteins themselves did, as they demanded/requested that Mechon L'Horaah retract the Siruv. If they didn't recognize the legitimacy, why would they put so much work toward that end?
4)smear cam·paign
noun
1.
a plan to discredit a public figure by making false or dubious accusations
none of that applies here as everything Dodelson has said is true- plus AMW was already discredited when Mechon L'Horaah said he was a mesarev.
Dovevos,
Delete1) Interesting that Gital didn't make those claims, but you do! It seem like another fabrication of your little mind.
Negotiations began when Gital requested a Get, and as is normal he requested marriage counseling... When Gital insisted on a "get on demand" , AM (who wasn't obligated to give in, without her going to a Bais Din) agreed if if she was willing to legal fees she incurred him when running away... And it wasn't anywhere near even 1/2 a Million Dollars!
2) Apparently Wolmark didn't feel she was right...
3) To make it clearer to the public that all this is all about is a nasty, disgusting SMEAR campaign...
4) Definition Correct!
The Dodelsons fabricated lies, hid facts from the public eye, harassed the Weiss & Feinstein Families, Damaged Artscroll and Yeshiva of Staten Island, Fooled Gedolim etc. All as Smear campaign against AMW and those close to him.
Amazingly though, DT "wonders" about this question weeks after going dark on this issue, & magically the episode appears a few days later.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we'd be better off if DT "wonders" when AMW will give a get.
Firstly, DT writes "Hopefully the material was cancelled and won't undermine the negotiations that have been going on. However I keep HEARING RUMORS that both are still coming out in the not too distant future."
DeleteIt was fairly well known within the inner circles of the case that this was going to go public soon...
So are you saying that DT is in the inner circles of this case? he keeps insisting otherwise.
DeleteNot at all! However I know enough people that are... that knew about it and were willing to talk about it...
DeleteI will point out that the Dodelsons sites have not made any comments in almost a month. They have not even linked to this NPR episode, or hyped it before it was posted. This site is the only one that has- which lends credence to the theory that this is old material that Dodelson couldnt stop, but Weiss is using it as an excuse to back out.
ReplyDeleteThe Dodelson's still have their website and Facebook pages up and running and spewing out their vitriol as we speak. They have not taken either down.
DeleteNo-one is denying that it may be old material, but they could have prevented it! There are several posts after R' Shmuel's letter... and once again this blog is NOT under Weisses control!
DeleteAn article (http://www.njjewishnews.com/article/20534/rabbi-becomes-target-for-backing-aguna#.UtygvPso5kg) about Conservative Rabbi Wolkoff's letter which was posted on the Free Gital Facebook page on December 5th, reports that the letter was handed to Gital Dodelson personally. It's now going to be hard for the Dodelson family to claim that the site does not represent them.
DeleteJonathan,
DeletePlease. We seek to not be bothered by the inconvenient truth. We will now talk about the Grassy Knoll and claim it's not Gital and her family's fault. OK. She's a victim.
Nu, Aryeh, um, oops - Dovevos, where are you?
I missed the part where the Dodelson's said that they had no connection to the site. The site itself says it is run by friends of Gital.
DeleteJonathan,
DeleteThat was linked last week already, and discussed... see above comments...
i heard the weisses demanded 750000
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to the story published on this blog in november, saying that the get was imminent, within the next two weeks?
ReplyDeleteThis was two months ago, and the get is still not given!
Was the story just a rumor? Why did the blog owner lend credibility to the rumor? Or did the husband change his mind? Does he have a history of changing his mind? Are four years of withholding the get typical for his character?
Both sides will blame the other side.... however, the only proof of anyone walking away from the negotiating table is against Gital... see R' Ronnie Greenwald's letters....
DeleteI have a challenge for rabbi Eidenson.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you allow Avrohom Meir Weiss to post under multiple pseudenoms? It's clear that Shimi, pursuit of honesty and all the others who parrot the same Weiss party line are AMW.
Don't know who shimi is, however, I definitely am not AMW...
DeleteRDE has my name, email address, and phone #... he can testify...
Deletei don't know who pursuit of honesty is but i'm certainly not AMW
DeleteIgros Moshe Even Haezer 4:106
ReplyDeleteNuff sed
Some questions for Gital's supporters on this blog:
ReplyDeleteWhere do any Torah sources allow a Jewish wife to abduct her child and leave her husband, just because she doesn't like her husband and she is in no danger?
Where do any Torah sources encourage a Jewish woman to find a "stepfather" for her child after divorce, when the real father is alive and well?
Does it bother you at all that some non-Jewish women hold by more traditional family values than the allegedly religious woman you're supporting?
"Why has the role of Father, Dad, Patriarch been downgraded to little more than sperm donor? Why are many of today’s men and fathers okay with this situation? An excellent saying is, “A gentleman makes commitments, a loser makes promises.” What makes a person walk away from his or her commitment to their own flesh and blood? Mothers are very important to the development of children, but fathers cannot be discounted."
http://politichicks.tv/column/fathers-key-stable-society/
dovevos i know that neither of them are amw because i know that amw hasnt looked at a blog in over 4 months.he doesnt care what you all write because as far as hes concerned he knows the facts better than all of you.and you guys only prove it by these numbers that you all claim am was demanding.you guys here gital say oh whatever his mood is that day sometimes 2 million ...and you guys decide to make up numbers.thats why i wrote they asked for 750k i thought we were all making up numbers.amw knows whats going on as do a select few on both sides but most of the people on this blog that i see are either lying about the facts or completely making stuff up.dovevos i put you in the first category because you seem like the ruthless type not just bored.im not saying i know all the facts but i know enough to know that gital in that interview said only one true thing the rest was complete garbage.
ReplyDeleteHow can you prove a negative? That AMW never asked for "any number between 0.5 and 2 million? That he was not controlling to the last detail in their couple?
DeleteThose are things you cannot KNOW are not true, you just could BELIEVE people who claim otherwise, and then it is he said-she said.
Patience,
DeleteThe Dodelsons said the interviews were taken months ago. Gital has since told the NY Post and the public, via her website & Facebook page, that AMW requested as much as $350,000. Now can you explain why the 1/2 - 2 Million Dollars claim is nowhere to be found till now?
i heard he wants 100 million
ReplyDeletei heard obama is getting divorced
i heard the palestinans want peace
i heard..... I HEARD.....
Dovevos,
ReplyDeleteGuess what? Those nice Dodelson people have linked the NPR broadcast to their FreeGital site on Facebook. Any other proofs you have that their truthful?
How sad that they couldn't even keep to their own backer's request...going against R' Shmuel's letter...
DeleteIn too many cases the women "Lock themselves in". What I mean is when you go on a attacking tirade against your husband causing him great financial loss and public humiliation, you wont find too many husbands who will not be upset with this.therefore AMW DONT GIVE THE GET TILL YOU ARE FAIRLY COMPENSATED. Yes men are starting to wisen up and recapturing the turf that the Feminists have taken away from us. They regard us as only sperm donors, but their end is near as they have run out of options
ReplyDeleteAnd even they do give a Get after that, it is very likely a Get Meusa...
DeleteI think many men lock themselves in.
DeleteIn practice, most men remarry earlier than their ex-wives. So, ultimately, get-refusers shoot themselves in the foot.
Only if the objective is to get remarried and "move on" from one's children does "Patience" have a point.
DeleteShmuel is right 100%. Those feminist rabiners must be boycotted, don't give them even one penney. Lo ta'amod al dam reacho, hit them where it hurts most. They can make their melave malkas for kol tsri vekol zov of the feminine kind, grushos, fagunos, FREE figs, anullees, vekol asher yesh lah noshe.
DeleteI think it says something about the Doddleson's that they are now using the rabidly anti-Israel pro-palestinian propagandists otherwise know as NPR to further their smear campaign
ReplyDeleteAt least Wendy Davis had the decency not to demand sole physical custody
ReplyDeletehttp://www.commentarymagazine.com/
It is true [Wendy Davis] was a single, divorced mother who went on to be the first in her family to graduate college. But not only did she fudge some dates (she was divorced at 21, not 19), the true story is that her second husband paid her college tuition and then, to enable her to attend Harvard Law School, he emptied his 401(k) account and took out a loan. He also took full care of her child by her first husband and the one they had together, while she was in Cambridge, Massachusetts for three years alone. She left her husband to divorce him immediately after he’d paid off her law school debts. He sought and was granted custody of both his stepdaughter and daughter after the divorce.
Over time, the Davises’ marriage was strained. In November 2003, Wendy Davis moved out.
Jeff Davis said that was right around the time the final payment on their Harvard Law School loan was due. “It was ironic,” he said. “I made the last payment, and it was the next day she left.”
Wendy Davis said that as a lawyer, she contributed too. …
In his initial divorce filing, Jeff Davis said the marriage had failed, citing adultery on her part and conflicts that the couple could not overcome. The final court decree makes no mention of infidelity, granting the divorce solely “on the ground of insupportability.”
Amber was 21 and in college. Dru was in ninth grade. Jeff Davis was awarded parental custody. Wendy Davis was ordered to pay $1,200 a month in child support.
“She did the right thing,” he said. “She said, ‘I think you’re right; you’ll make a good, nurturing father. While I’ve been a good mother, it’s not a good time for me right now.’”
Your point?
DeleteThis case is quite different!
Maybe R' Shmuel just meant to take the propaganda campaign out of the trashy New York Post. A purely educational even-handed presentation by a New York Times reporter on National Public Radio is just a public service to explain the inner workings of the yeshiva world to the high-cultured.
ReplyDeleteHow in the world does that make any sense?
DeleteTake it out of the Post? That's impossible... Even-handed? They never presented the other side...
PoH, you are missing my sarcasm
DeleteBy taking out, I meant to stop further propaganda in the New York Post; what was published cannot be unpublished.
The New York Post coverage didn't portend to be anything other than an aspiring B-list celebrity going public to trash her ex.
NPR ran a hit piece on AMW and his family, while pretending to be even-handed.
observer you are obviously not ordothox.you see we believe in something called chillul Hashem.reb shmuel didnt have a problem with the new york post because of their standing in the non jewish world,but rather becauuse they have a standing in the nonjewish world.had you read the blogs on that article you would have seen how our religion (meaning the way we orthodox people keep it)was trashed and dragged through the mud as every non jewsish person and every proud exfrum person went on to say how terrible and outdated our laws are. to say what you are saying shows a serious lack of logic.you see people like dovevos who quite obviously live in lakewood or at least run in that crowd know this.dovevos knows what youre saying is not smart at all,the reason why he or she says stuff like"reb shmuel was never upset about the post and your all liars"or whatever his exact words were is because hes just doing his best to back one side,and mr dovevos if i might say that time you made quite a fool of yourself.but you mr observer seem like youre just lacking an understanding of these basic ideas
ReplyDeleteI thought it obvious that I was being sarcastic. It appears that it was not.
DeleteI don't understand your problem. Chilul Hashem is in the eye of the beholder.
DeleteMany posters here, and the blog-owner, stated that:
1) It was the halachic right of a husband to withhold a get even once the marriage is over and a civil divorce was pronounced
2) it was AMW's good right to claim large sums of money in exchange for the get
3) That it is a jewish husband's good right to be controlling
4) That it is a jewish husband's good right not to provide for his family, but that even under this circumstances household revenue generated by his wife should be under his sole control
5) That it is OK to marry for money.
Of course, such positions do not contribute to highten the respect of the general public for those who hold these opinions.
1) The two are unrelated. A Husband can not be forced to give a Get unless a Bais Din paskens that he is 'required' to give a Get, then he refuses to give it, and only then the Bais Din can decide that he may be forced. In this case, no Bais Din even claimed he was even required to give a Get in the first place, let alone be forced.
Delete2) AM is in no way required to Gital a Get. If she can request a Get from him, he can request from her to pay for the legal bills she incurred him by running away with his child.
3) Halacha is clear, if you don't like it, I have no response for you other then that we are talking about frum people here, who hopefully care about Halacha. In Halacha we find in many areas that the man's role is the one lead, and the woman have many special roles as well. You can find that regarding finances & 'Onah', as well as many other areas. That doesn't mean controlling as in force!
4) The commonly accepted agreement when marrying a "learning" guy, in the Yeshiva circles, is that the girl's parents help support the couple, throughout the duration of his learning or for an agreed number of years. This support is because he is learning. Halachicly speaking, all the money the wife earns belongs to the husband, as per the Kesubah. If Gital didn't like that agreement, she never had to agree to it. But she did! In regards to control over the money, it is usually the husband's duty to take care of the bills. However, spending habits in a normal marriage, is usually based on communication.
5) What is your proof that AM married Gital for her parent's money? That sounds rather unintelligent!
"household revenue generated by his wife"
DeleteThat is a pure FALSE and misleading statement. Conditions generated upon engagement to a Chatan is called a "TNAYIM". When in seeking out someone very special and thereby agree to certain terms of how to maintain and finance his Torah lifestyle, is due to and generated by the HUSBAND and not by the wife. Whoever undertakes those conditions in acquiring such in order to obtain the same, only obligated themselves by their own choice and free will in doing so!
Unfortunately, it turned out that AMW was not "very special" in a positive sense, at least not for Gital... This might be subjective, but it seems irrefutable to me, after the NYPost article...
Delete"Whoever undertakes those conditions in acquiring such in order to obtain the same, only obligated themselves by their own choice and free will in doing so!"
DeleteWell... it turns out that it was unwise on AMW's part to claim excessive control over money he did not earn. Now he lost his gold-spiting donkey... And he makes a true Rumpelstielzchen scene about it. Carefull that he will not burst to thousand pieces..
Patience,
Delete'Very special' that generated the revenue and income was in response to and opposed to as, "household revenue generated by his wife", and that is Neither subjective Nor refutable with or without your patience!
And as for what you claim that he turned out not to be, as per Gital after the NYPost article, since when is the NYP shmutz rag admissible in court as a witness, or any place for that matter, can you cash that in at the bank? It is nothing other than one liar quoting another liar with no credibility whatsoever. If candle lighting according to AMW's minhagim or which OBGyn Doctor to go is the proof for calling him "control", than she has no case. Furthermore, what would you call when Gital chooses to which Doctor or Marriage Counselor to go, and limit to four strikes before you are out, according to Gital it would be Micro Managing of both -Command AND Control, huh? And not only that, but is also putting both Father and Child at stake in destroying a Jewish Family Unit, and THAT you can ask the Whole Wide World. It is called an "Akshan", or shall we say A MULE/DONKEY/ASS, A Spoiled Brat, and if I may, rotten just as well (please excuse my french). And according to Gital, NYComposte, and You, it is AMW who turned out not to be very special, Huh? If after all what she did to him, not only is he VERY Special in the MOST POSITIVE SENSE , but he is a MALACH as well as a TZADIK for holding all this out without even saying ONE bad word about her or her family! FERSHTEIST! The same holds even if you throw in NPR together with all the other BILAM's of the world. Ask the SA, "min haneelovim ve'einam olvim" is a Gibor chayil, a GAON in middos, and they don't make them anymore like such, KAPPISH! So much for your alleging 'not very special'.
As for your excessive claim and repeating yourself,
"Well... it turns out that it was unwise on AMW's part to claim excessive control over
money he did not earn.
Now he lost his gold-spiting donkey...
And he makes a true Rumpelstielzchen scene about it. Carefull that he will not burst to thousand pieces.."
If AMW had to budget his meager income, he must have been learning 'Torah mitoch hadchak', yes - very special indeed, and that only shows he did not marry a golden goose since it only layed a simpleton "EGG", there wasn't much to control after all, let alone what you call 'excessive control'. I still wouldn't put it beyond her, that she got plenty of dough to chew on ALL by herself and still left to put away in her "Knippel" outside of AMW's reach and sight, if you get my drift. Reminds me more of a Sheli Sheli and Seloch Sheli.
Well... it surely seems Mr Weiss is wise indeed, for giving up only a lashan hara spitting Donkey eating straw... but holding on fast to his son, while she lost someone very special, a peh mapik margalit spinning gold. And for you my friend , just one more thing. You sound like a true marbitz glallim eating up all NYP's and NPR's straw with great appetite. I hope I didn't burst your bubble into many pieces in the likes of Rumpelstiltskin stomping all over the place. How gullible can you be?
If he was such a glicksshiddach, she would have kept him, believe you me...
DeleteBut if you like him that much, why don't you marry him? This would make you happy and solve the get-problem...
Will R' Shmuel comment on the Dodelson family flouting his letter?
ReplyDeleteof course he will that what i heard. he is very angry about that and the other lies that they are spreading about the weisss
Deletei highly doubt anyone said its ok to marry for money...why dont you copy paste that for me.also this is a jewish blog hence the name.yes many things can constitute chillul but if i had to split the two it would not b very hard.but if you are making a point it would be that this blog is a chillul also not that the new york post isnt.and to be honest i wouldnt argue that point i would just say that you can easily make a case for it not being one.but there is no eyes of the beholder when it comes to the new york post article that is the very definition of chillul Hashem
ReplyDeleteoh and why dont you copy paste all the other things while your at it.like it is a jewish husbands right to be controlling ect
ReplyDeleteListen to NPR WNYC 93.9 FM
ReplyDeletei am writing out of concern for situation. i have nothing to do with any of the people involved.
ReplyDeletewhen you stopped posting about the weiss dodelson sad situation it was not in public anymore. you are the one that kept it public after the article.
almost no one would knew about npr. how would they? i even tried to google a few different ways and can not find anything. so at this point there is no way you can blame dodelson about a public smear you have to blame yourself for keeping this in publc.
does Reb Reuvain Feinstein endorse your telling the public things they would never know? what is your heter for all the loshon hara that comes about this subject?
seems like you are being blinded and do not see how hypocritical it is what you are doing.
a rav once said sometimes under the heading of kanaus lshaim shamayim the worst middos come out.
please rethink what you are doing.
Nonsense! You find nothing wrong with Dodelson having a constant internet outlet as well as NYPost Times of Israel Newsweek NPR etc etc
DeleteBut you become very pious when it comes to my presenting information from both sides
I would suggest that you think a bit more about what you write before you hit the enter key.
Telling one side of a public dispute is not piety and it involves more lashon harah than if both sides are represented.
But as I have repeatedly say - if you really believed what you are writing - you have absolutely no justification for reading this blog.
Practical,
DeleteApparently the one place you failed to look was their despicable Facebook page! (Which R' Shmuel Kamenetzky asked them to stop posting on!)
"when you stopped posting about the weiss dodelson sad situation it was not in public anymore. you are the one that kept it public after the article."
DeleteTRUE. If you google Dodelson Weiss, daas torah is among the first results that appear.
Patience,
DeleteFirstly, Google isn't proof of anything, all it means is - More people care to click on this site then others...
Secondly, "In Public" refers to visibility & discussions... In this case the Dodelsons have more then 13k followers (plus their friends) seeing each post the put up on their Facebook page, plus all the reader & listeners to their interviews and articles...
It is the Dodelsons that put this in the public eye, and maintain the publicity to this case (as they said when being asked to stop this NPR interview from going public: "its the only thing that got AM to be more willing let go of his requests for the Get") in order to force a Get (M'usa) out of AMW. This site just happens to be public discussions on the topic.
Note: The only post this blog posted recently on this topic is about this NPR interview...
It is perfectly acceptable for the Dodelsons to continue their vicious propaganda campaign against the Weiss and Feinstein families with the help of a paid PR flack, but you think it wrong for Rabbi Eidensohn to speak out on this matter? Are you serious?
ReplyDeleteWhat is vicious about stating publicly that AMW did not give a get, four years after civil divorce, and that he asks for arbitrary sums of money in exchange for the get?
DeleteAMW had an occasion to present his point of view, to state publicly that he does not ask for money. He refused to do so. Hamevin yavin.
Patience,
DeleteYou clearly have your facts about this case wrong!
"four years after civil divorce", Really now? When did they get civilly divorced? "he asks for arbitrary sums of money in exchange for the get" Really? AMW asked her to pay for the fees she incurred him when she ran away from him with his child! Gital Weiss is a Moredes and a kidnapper! Gital doesn't deserve a Get in the first place!
Either way, as mentioned above, AM never had intentions to make this case public, and doesn't plan on changing those plans for Gital...
Listen to the NPR broadcast here:
ReplyDeletehttp://feeds.thisamericanlife.org/~r/talpodcast/~5/LKLjAaX1hZE/516.mp3
(It starts somewhere in the middle)
Okay, I just heard the interview Gital and her brother Aryeh gave to this irreligious Jew from the media.
ReplyDeleteShe admitted this is a custody dispute. He wants 50/50 custody. She refuses. That's what I thought all along. A custody dispute.
Well, he has a right to have custody. Secular courts have no place deciding who gets custody of a Jewish couple.
So we see that Gital and her family are still pursuing this dirty media war against the Weiss' family.
And yet that "minor" point is not in this arbitration document (http://daattorah.blogspot.ch/2013/12/weiss-dodelson-negotiation-documents.html), which was presented as proof that the Dodelson's refuse to agree to the Weiss family's very reasonable demands?
DeleteAlso, why is the fact that the interviewer is a irreligious Jew relevant?
Missed your first point...
DeleteAs matter of fact, irreligious Jews tend to not know and understand halachah. They also tend to try to make orthodoxy sound ridiculous.
We also hear Mr. Mendel Espstein admit on recording that he beat men into giving a Get.
ReplyDeleteThe FBI would be quite interested in giving this to the prosecutors.
Typical hack job by NPR masquerading as objective even-handed objective reporting. Treats the purported "seruv" from a beis din without any jurisdiction over the matter as if the seruv were somehow legitimate. Does not mention the bitul seruv.
ReplyDeleteIs R' Shmuel going to criticize the Dodelson family for flouting his letter?
ReplyDeleteI am not saying that the fact that the "gedolim" have not criticized the outrageous attacks on the Feinstein and Weiss families makes that behavior acceptable.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that to the contrary, the "gedolim" publicly weighed in on this matter in a reprehensible fashion. As has been noted at length and with thorough explanation by Rabbis Eidensohn, the position espoused by the "gedolim" is directly contrary to halacha. It also appears that the “gedolim” weighed in on this matter because of wealth, influence and family relationships. Instead of trying to deescalate this situation, the “gedolim” have poured gasoline on the flames. The letter of the “gedolim” seems to be providing active encouragement for this entire propaganda campaign.
The "gedolim" that signed the letters against the Feinstein and Weiss families appear to fully back the New York Post hit piece including the article's attacks on, and ridicule of, Orthodox Judaism in general, and the yeshiva world in particular. The "gedolim" signed a letter calling for public attacks on the Weiss and Feinstein families; they have never fully retracted that letter.
ReplyDeleteAlthough there have been unconfirmed reports that some of the "gedolim" who signed the letter attacking the father's family have since become unhappy with the propaganda campaign, they have not given any public indication of that, with one exception, R' Shmuel.
ReplyDeleteBut even R' Shmuel's subsequent letter is too little and too late. The letter he signed with the other "gedolim" has caused tremendous damage. In order to try to mitigate at least some of the terrible damage he has caused, he should go much further and directly and specifically call upon by name those doing the damage to stop doing so.
R' Shmuel regretted his actions, he therefore took responsibility and made it his business to try to clean up the mess by putting his son R' Sholom in charge. I applaud his gesture. I applaud even more R' Sholom's patience and resilience, his sensitivity and full comprehension, and his complete devotion to ending this terrible situation!!!
DeleteThank you R' Sholom!
Pursuit, do you know that R Shmuel regretted his actions as a matter of fact, or is it because you are speculating?
Delete