Dear Avrom Meir and Gital,
Personally, I am sick to my stomach by what has been going on. First of all, Avrom Meir, it's time to be the big boy here and give Gital her get. Second, I want to point out how sick I am by the Dodelson family. Going after the father who supports Avrom Meir I can understand, but you sank to a whole new level of low! A 70 year old grandmother and grandfather who are very well respected people and who's whole lives are based on shalom, is sick and mind blowing to me. I think that the Dodelson family owes an apology to Rav Reuven and Rebbitzin Sheila, a public one, because you publicly made them look bad and said hurtful things.
As far as taking or trying to take down a yeshivah you better ask God to forgive you and ask the entire klal yisroel to forgive you for the chilul hashem and disgrace that you caused. I am saying it the way it is because no one else seems to have it in them. Shame on those who signed things without really knowing what is going on. And when they did, could not find the strength to make things right. At this point I turn to Rav Malkiel Kotler who is the rosh yeshiva in BMG, I just don't know how you allowed this to go on.
Gital, I feel bad for you but not that you are an "aguna". Avrom Meir, move on, get a life, try to find someone else. Realize your family is getting hurt, losing their livelihoods, stop being so selfish and open your eyes. Realize, both of you, will not have time to ever see the kid you are fighting over because you are to busy getting nowhere! You both lost! Face the music, give a get. And Gital, realize what you have done and suffer the consequences. It's time to get it over with. Enough aggravation caused on both ends. Enough money spent. Enough chilul hashem.
What consequences would you like to see Gital suffer, oh anon guest poster? it seems that you have exposed what this is all about for the Weiss family. Making Gital suffer.
ReplyDeleteechhhhh
I think he/she means spiritually. Gital is out of the yeshiva crowd now. She associates with the mo crowd (or worse). As such, gital is expected by this poster to suffer the consequences of the yeshivish crowd. Best I could do.
Delete"Gital is out of the yeshiva crowd now."
Deletegood for her.
"She associates with the mo crowd (or worse)."
according to what can be seen here, the yeshiva crowd is much worse than the mo crowd...
Avrohom Meir should not give a Get. Gital is not halachicly entitled to a Get and she does deserve a Get. Especially not after what she put the Avrohom Meir through, what she put the Weiss mishpacha through, what she put Posek HaDor Maran HaGaon HaRav Dovid Feinstein through, what she put Godol HaDor HaGaon HaRav Reuven Feinstein through and what she put Klal Yisroel through.
ReplyDeleteAvrohom Meir should get his Heter Meah Rabbonim (we can surely find more than 100 kollel guys with smicha to sign off) and happily remarry and have children.
Gital and the Dodelsons will have to give in to EVERYTHING the Weiss' demand and are halachicly entitled to. When she does, and everything without compromise, she will be allowed to pick up the Get from the Heter Meah Beis Din.
Otherwise she can grow old and grey all alone.
Id have to disagree He is not a kotler he cant just go marry two woman!
DeleteAnd for the well being of his family he should give a get because at this point he not gaining anything. Even if he is right
Deleteyou tell it as it is. if he should give a get it would be a bizoyon for the torah . it would also throw under the bus all men who are withholding a get based on their G-d given Halachic rights.
DeleteIt seems you are advocating him getting a heter meah rabbonim, without allowing her to receive the get. I'm pretty sure that's not how a heter meah works...
Deletewhat do you mean "deserve a get"? Is a get a badge of honor you need to deserve? the whole approach behind this remark is flawed.
DeleteI specifically said he would deposit the Get with the Beis Din when he gets the Heter Meah Rabbonim. Then the Beis Din will only give it to her when she meets every single demand the Weiss' are halachicly entitled to.
DeleteMr. "Well": A wife is not entitled to a Get-on-demand. If a wife demands a Get she is not necessarily entitled to one. If a wife wants a Get, halacha often deems her unentitled to one. One needn't divorce his wife simply because she wants to get divorced.
DeleteWell, if she wants to be "entitled" to get, she has a simple solution: sleep with someone else. That is the case where all coercion measures are allowed to convince the husband to give a get.
DeleteTherefore, your idea that a husband should hold back a get because he feels his wife does not "deserve" it, is completely flawed.
Every husband withholding a get is over "lifney iver al tasim michshol", because it might cause the ex-wife to commit something that would be considered adultery.
For this reason alone, there clearly is a chiyuv to give a get.
"it would also throw under the bus all men who are withholding a get based on their G-d given Halachic rights."
DeleteYou are making fun of AMW, aren't you?
If she sleeps with someone else she is Chayiv Misa.
DeleteThere are many circumstances, specifically described in halacha, where a man shouldn't give his wife a Get that she wants.
What consequences?! You think someone will marry gital after saying she needs to live with them first? You think its ok to disgrace hashem and the jewish people over this?
ReplyDeleteC'mon, you know thats not what she said.
DeleteI dont see why the husbamd fighting to make sure he has a safe and viable legally supoorted equall parenting role with his child is selfish. IF ANYTHING I THINK IT IS THE HEIGHT OF COURAGE AND SELFLESSNESS TO FACE ALL THIS CONFLICT AND HOSTILTIY FOR THE SAKE OF HIS SON.
ReplyDeleteWell, he had plenty of time to negotiate an amicable divorce agreement. Sadly, he missed this opportunity. Nevertheless, he was granted a fair parenting schedule. He had claimed sole custody for himself, and he has more visiting rights than he wanted to grant his wife. So if that was good enough for her, why would it not be good enough to him?
DeleteIn the same vain, he wanted that both parents share the burde of upbringing for their child, (which is not what halacha mandates, placing the onus of providing for a child solely on the father's shouldres). That is what he got: he has to pay his share for the child's expenses.
but as soon as he knew he had to pay, he whined that he was not able to pay 220$ a week and got the court to reduce child support to 98 $ a week.
So all in all, AMW had his fair go at this, he lost - he should not whine now.
I hope he will soon desire to marry another woman and give the get of his own free volition.
Halacha also gives custody of a son to the father.
DeleteYou had a valid point about Chilul Hashem until you accused Rabbi Yaakov Perlow,
ReplyDeleteRabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, Rabbi Aharon Moshe Schechter, Rabbi Aharon Feldman, Rabbi Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld, Rabbi Nota Tzvi Greenblatt, Rabbi Tzvi Schechter, Rabbi Moshe Heineman, Rabbi Elya Dov Wachtfogel and Rabbi Yaakov Hopfer of signing things without really knowing what is going on and not having the strength to make things right.
You don't sound like a person who is concerned about Kevod Shamayim. You clearly have no Kavod for Talmidei Chachamim, Poskim and Yirei Shamayim that you disagree with.
Rav Moshe Feinstein would not have talked that way about them and neither should you.
D. I. T. T. O.
Deletewhile you take about reb moshe ztl as though you know what he would do, I don't think he would stand for the corruption of halacha that the people you mentioned above are party to. however, the question would be what you can do. reb dovid shlita has insinuated that while they are all mistaken in their halacha, it is impossible for a relative to come out and explain this to them (because they wont listen). Therefore, we, as members of klal yisroel have a requirement to ask these people how they justify what they have done. I think you will be very surprised to find out they have no justification. I know because I did question and I did find out such.
Deleteif you speak to these signers most will tell you they never signed on what it says they did and some will say they never even signed any kol koreh
Delete@az. I appreciate ur respect for our leaders and our Leader.
DeleteHere is what the TALMUD says and would do. Bemakom sheyesh chilul HASHEM, ein cholkin kavod larav! Fershteist. And ditto to D.I.T.T.O.
DeleteMr. Just saying: I think I do know what Reb Moshe would do and how he would talk. See his teshuvos regarding Heter Mechira and the Eiruv in Brooklyn. He disagreed vehemently but spoke with utmost respect.
DeleteMr. Shimi: Actually, I have had serious discussions on difficult issues with seven of those signed on the letter. I have not contacted them on this particular issue but have utmost confidence that they know what is going on and that they have "the strength to make things right".
And yes, I have utmost respect for Reb Dovid Feinstein Shlita as well. He appears to disagree with them (depending on the chronology of the various letters), but all he said was his great nephew is not a mesarev or Me'agein. That is hardly a ringing endorsement.
And finally, Mr. Rav Lachem: Clever quote. Maybe you are right. Personally, I'll stick to my Rabbonim to tell me how to promote kevod shomayim.
Mr. AZ,
DeleteDo you have any doubt that Reb Moshe ztl holds that the people who carry in Brooklyn are mechalei Shabbos bfarhesia? I don't think you do. Do you have any doubt that he holds that the rabbis who allow such an eiruv are michshal harabim? Doubt that one too. So, your issue is the way he signed something? I am telling you the way he talked. I am telling you the way Reb Dovid shlita has spoken about this. There is no doubt that he feels they are wrong wrong wrong. However, he also feels that they wont listen. Ask him if you have any questions. I see how you nicely say you speak to 7 of the signers but don't ask about this case. Ask away, my friend. I did and I know. What little respect you have for them will melt away like an ice cube on a nice July day in Tel Aviv. On the subject of the eiruv, why don't you ask Reb Dovid, who you have tremendous respect for what he feels about the people who carry and the rabbis who permitted it. However, he only signed one letter????? Does that mean he isn't vehemently against them? Not on your life. But who is going to listen to a litvishe rav in a Chassidic enclave. You are confusing respect with action. You speak as though reb moshe was a lemmele. compared to reb aharon ztl he probably was. But don't you ever think he let chillulei hashem brought on by these PEOPLE to go unnoticed and non rebuked. You know Reb Moshe! You should sign the letter as well.
Just Saying, I appreciate your response. You may indeed know the Feinstein family better than I do. My words were based on at least one teshuva in Igros Moshe where Rav Moshe Zatzal defends Rav Menashe Klein and says that he is wrong but should still be given the respect due to a Talmid Chocham. He did not call him a Mechalel Shabbos B'farhsia in Teshuvos. He stated his psak that carrying would be chilul Shabbos and argued every point of his, but still accorded Reb Menashe Klein respect.
DeleteI regret that I don't have the reference with me now, but Rabbi Eidenson surely has it. There is also a Teshuva in OC 4:87 where he speaks very civilly and gives license to those who disagree with him re the eiruv.
That is far different than the tone I am seeing in the description of rabbonim and poskim in some of the posts on this blog. I felt the need to say something.
AZ,
DeleteI understand exactly what you are saying. I felt the same way until I was challenged to ask them
First of all, reb Reuven DID answer rabbis kaminetzky, Greenblatt, wachfogel and Kotler in a letter. The Dodelson family has those letters and I saw them. Now, they don't really have content from a halachik standpoint but rrf did answer why he wasn't throwing him out of the Kollel and it wasn't only because he was a grandson. It was more bc the BD acted shelo kdin.
The first issue I had with kol koreh was a rehash on that point. Rrf answered. So bc you didn't like the answer it gives you a right to go public with a kol koreh?
The Feinstein family sent unofficial representatives to all of the signers warning them that what they did was unethical and against halacha. Besides that it was straight lashon hara. No one listened. They were all told that the people whom they gave this letter to will cause a chilul hashem and act against halacha and again they refused to listen. Now that the Feinstein family were proven prophetic the people who investigated the truth are upset at the rabbis for their inaction due to their egos. Yes, I said they are malshinim and baalei gaavah.
The Feinstein family has been quiet but we who know the truth and we who are demanding explanation from them do not have to be.
I still have respect for the Rabbonim on the Kol Koreh and would not call them malshinim and Baalei gaaveah, but I appreciate your answer. Thank you.
Delete@az thank you! Sanity becomes something to appreciate in this forum.
Delete"Enough money spent"?
ReplyDeleteDo you really think that amw can avoid being dragged back to court by gital to change the custody arrangement if he were to give a get?
@Chaim,
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering about that. After seeing how the Dodelsons treat people, I wouldn't even want to go to her mother's house to repair a sink, much less to even consider marrying Gital. What kind of person would want to subject themselves to the Dodelson family after this?
What kind of person would want to subject themselves to the Dodelson family after this?
DeleteYou'd be surprised.
Phunny
Deletecorruption!!!!
ReplyDeletescandal!
ReplyDeletedisgusting!
ReplyDeleteyou know what i think everyone should try and put themselves in am s shoes and gitals shoes.so if your gital you basically ended your life with your husband and either you want to get remarried or want to have that option and your husband isnt giving you the get which you need.you therefore have thousands of people call him and his parents and grandparent threatening them or beseeching them to make this get happen.you then have people call their places of work and try to have them fired.then you get a bunch of gedolim to sign a paper either by signing their names for them or misrepresenting his side or actually telling them the truth, saying that he is a meagen.yyou then turn to social media namely facebook and open up the trashing of a well known and respected jewish family to everyone including most of the people there who arent religious or arent even jewish!!!you then agree to a negotiation and when the arbitration doesnt go your way you proceed to trash judiasm to the world in the form of the new york post.you then call up his uncle reb dovid beinish feinstein and beg him to help make this get a reality,after just two weeks and him getting you to within an inch of your get you dont get exactly what you like and you again back out.you then harass reb ruvein and his wife and publicly threaten to destroy the establishment built by the gadol hador reb moshe and his son reb ruvein all the while crying to people who dont know the situation that your are the victim.
ReplyDeletenow AM. your wife left you taking your kid with you.you feel that with all her money (moms a millionaire) and power(uncles head of lakewood) you wont stand a chance of getting the custody you want.you decide hes half your kid you want half the custody.(which at the beginning of this fight was not in the least sensible as everyone knows the mother should be getting most of the custody thats why G-D gave her the ability to feed the baby)(after this fight i kinda hear why you dont want her to have him)you see gital acting in a harmful way not telling you which shots aryeh has ect. so you hold back the get.you dont go to beis din to report her as a moredes because at that point you still liked her(!!!!!!!!)you also dont trust anyone who she brings as a beis din because she has showed that she can pretty much get any verdict out of these battei dinnim who paskened for her without contacting you(the first time)you then decided you would do everything you can to get your demands met and held back a get watching as gital publicly destroyed your parents family grandparents ect. choosing your kids custody over the well being of those people.now at that point anyone with a kid would do the same.but instead of distancing yourself from said family so they dont get hurt you used them to back you up when in reality you could have just not given a get without repeatedly bringing their names into it.also when it came to within an inch of the get and negotiations coming to a close at that point it wasnt your kid or the people closest to you it then became about not letting gital control your every move.at that point maybe it was time to release your parents grandparent ect.from their public abuse and let gital have that small victory.
people these are the two sides i challenge anyone to read this and say either one is in the right.yes one side is worse as is the case always.but maybe instead of people joining the ruckus we the rest of the people should begin to realize there is no right side here there is only wrong and evil.do you still want to choose a side???
" At this point I turn to Rav Malkiel Kotler who is the rosh yeshiva in BMG, I just don't know how you allowed this to go on. "
ReplyDeleteIsn't he the Baal Hasimcha? Check out his pursuit in previous post for the Kol Kore.
If the Vilna Goan were alive today, would the Doddlesons campaign for him to lose his job, lose any speaking engagements, have his yeshiva closed and to be put on niddui? The Gra' s piskei halacha on gittin are totally opposed what the Doddlesobs are doing. Would that make the Gra , in the Doddlesons grotesquely perverse world view, a legitimate target for ORA's and Gital's scorched earth policy facebook assault? Just asking...
ReplyDeleteIf she sleeps with someone else she is Chayiv Misa.
ReplyDeleteThere are many circumstances, specifically described in halacha, where a man shouldn't give his wife a Get that she wants.