BHOL [update with English translation] The struggle of the Eida Haredis factors against the Av Beis Din Hagaon Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch, for his strong stand against the decision of his fellow rabbis - most members of the Beis Din - not to excavate at Golovenzitz construction site in Beit Shemesh, a decision made at the initiative of Gab"d Eida Haredis, Hgri"t Weiss, who is president of the organization Asra Kadisha, crosses borders and this week recorded far-reaching developments.
One notable scribe in the newspaper Der Yid, the journal of the Satmar Rebbe Mahrz"l, is Rabbi Menashe Philip, Rav of Kehal Mahari T"v and brother of Dayan Association of Rabbis and one of the community leaders, Hagaon Rabbi Zalman Leib Philip.
Last Thursday, Rabbi Philip stood at the podium in the Beis Midrash Haredim in Kiryat Yoel, Monroe, and addressed the most pressing issue in the corridors of kanoim: the Golovenzitz compound in Beit Shemesh, and the controversy around the issue between the Rosh Av Beis Din and Gab"d about the excavations.
Last Thursday, Rabbi Philip stood at the podium in the Beis Midrash Haredim in Kiryat Yoel, Monroe, and addressed the most pressing issue in the corridors of kanoim: the Golovenzitz compound in Beit Shemesh, and the controversy around the issue between the Rosh Av Beis Din and Gab"d about the excavations.
After relating the chain of events, Rabbi Philip let down the leash of his mouth, opened with slander against Hagaon Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch and called him "crazy" and 'Zaken Mamre'.
"The man who is known as Rab"d'" Rabbi Philip opened his mouth, "writes a letter permeated with leitzanus. Just unthinkable! The man called Rab"d, is shrouded with suppressed hatred against 'Asra Kadisha', since the period of works in the old cemetery in the holy city of Safed, and he is willing to do anything against this organization, G-d forbid.[...]
"The man who is known as Rab"d'" Rabbi Philip opened his mouth, "writes a letter permeated with leitzanus. Just unthinkable! The man called Rab"d, is shrouded with suppressed hatred against 'Asra Kadisha', since the period of works in the old cemetery in the holy city of Safed, and he is willing to do anything against this organization, G-d forbid.[...]
This is beyond ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteSatmar seem to have problems with everyone and anyone, and not just the Modernists, Zionists, Agudists, Degelniks, but also between themselves and now this is just the next phase of internecine warfare.
Also, there is an unknown Rabbi calling a Gadol such names - it is not at all convincing.
Satmar's mode of behavior regarding Eretz Yisroel is to agitate, incite and inflame. Right, wrong or indifference plays no role, it is to keep the subject of Evil Zionists as the main role in the destruction of Yiddishkeit.
ReplyDeleteGoes to show that in reality, the "kana'us" of some people is egoistic rage readily vented against whoever disagrees with their views.
ReplyDeleteZalman Lieb Phillip who supported Weberman now comes out against R"Shternbuch, the nerve of him!
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to disagree with your words, but in my opinion and for the very reason you give, if Zalman L Philip was in support of Rav Moshe Shternbuch, I would say the nerve of him.
DeleteIs this a fight over dogma or is Mr Phillip mad he didn't get a payoff?
ReplyDeleteAnyone want to provide the translation?
ReplyDeleteWhat goes around, comes around.
ReplyDelete1) i assume that there isn't any real fight about the graves, that the positions could easily be reversed (yes i am cynical). or, maybei should be fairer: along side the halachic question, there is an additional fight over control of the chassidic world (or a section of it).
ReplyDelete2) the way that certain elements in this story are acting shows that the idea of "kavod hatorah", "kavod rabbanim" "70 panim" simply doesn't exist.
@ R Eidensohn
ReplyDeleteThis whole saga starts with the assumption that if there are indeed graves then the buildings cannot be built. Yet it is far from clear that the halacha is so. There are many poskim that allow one to move graves if there is a need. There is a Yerushalmi that permits moving graves after the flesh has already disintegrates, Ramban, Tur, and Noda Biyehuda all permit it is well. R Mosh Feinstein permits it as well. R O Yossef concludes that it is a machlokes Rishonim, and allows it only with a tziruf.
Why let halacha emerge in a great fight for power!!!
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this post, I was still left wondering what are the underlying issues behind this dispute. If we are condemning anyone for being too quick on the trigger to attack Rabbi Sternbuch, then at least we should go with this logic and not pass judgement before due diligence. I thank Koillel nick for the being so far the only commentator who is actually making a point other than a mere attack.
ReplyDeleteso you are willing to entertain the possibility that rav sternbauch is a tzaken mamreh?
DeleteHe is certainly not a Zaken Mamreh, because this can't exist B'zman Hazeh as there is no Sabhedrin. But the fact that one exaggerates in their language because they have been angered, does not mean that they have nothing to be upset about. I still respect the commentators on this post even though they are sometimes quick to condemn, but I point out that they are doing the same thing that they are criticizing and that the issues should be looked at and understood.
ReplyDeletethere are two issues (at least): one is the actual question / machloqet at hand. that point can be debated how ever much people want. the second is the reaction to the debate. that someone, and especially a rav who has a few years under his belt (meaning, he isn't some teenager) is upset doesn't give him the right to label a person considered to be a gadol as a tzaqen mamreh. that behavior is treif.
DeleteThe asra kadisha physicly attacked rav alyashuv over the graves at pisgat zev road 20 years ago
ReplyDeletebehemos
DeleteRav o J used tziruf to allow guns to be given to arafat ימ׳ש at oslo
ReplyDeleteTo the Eidah Chareidus: You reap what you sow...
ReplyDelete