Dick Tracy sorry that you feel good at Kolko's misery. My reaction was just the opposite. The post emphasizes the seriousness of the consequences of abuse. Studies indicate that jail or the clear threat of jail is one of the few things that makes a pedophile less like to molest.
I wonder. Once the perpetrator is away from where he can pose danger to our children, what is there to gain with publicity? While a staunch advocate of protecting children, I cannot be supportive of many of the "advocates", who I see as far more willing to baschmutz than to protect. I am personally thrilled that this perp is locked up, and I hope his reputation will follow him when eventually released. Still, dragging this garbage through the streets is not terribly useful.
Perhaps you should spend more time studying Torah and less time on the internet. Why were punishments public spectacles?
Among many examples are:
Devarim 13 7. If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, you, nor your fathers;
Sanhedrin (89a):
MISHNAH. HE [THE REBELLIOUS ELDER] WAS EXECUTED NEITHER BY HIS LOCAL BETH DIN NOR BY THE BETH DIN AT JABNEH,4 BUT WAS TAKEN TO THE GREAT BETH DIN IN JERUSALEM AND KEPT THERE UNTIL THE [NEXT] FESTIVAL5 AND EXECUTED THEREON, FOR IT IS WRITTEN, ‘AND ALL THE PEOPLE SHALL HEAR AND FEAR, AND DO NO MORE PRESUMPTUOUSLY:’6 THIS IS R. AKIBA'S OPINION. R. JUDAH SAID: HIS JUDGMENT MUST NOT BE DELAYED, BUT HE IS EXECUTED IMMEDIATELY, WHILST PROCLAMATIONS ARE INDITED AND SENT BY MESSENGERS TO ALL PLACE, ‘SO AND SO HAS BEEN SENTENCED TO DEATH AT BETH DIN.[...]
Our Rabbis taught: Public announcements must be made for four [malefactors]: a mesith, a ‘stubborn and rebellious’ son, a rebellious elder, and witnesses who were proved zomemim.7 In the case of all [others]8 it is written, And all the people, or, and all Israel; but in the case of witnesses proved zomemim it is written, And those which remain [shall hear and fear],9 since not all are eligible to be witnesses.10
8. Of the gods of the people who are around you, near you, or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth; 9. You shall not yield to him, nor listen to him; nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him; 10. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 11. And you shall stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. 12. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
I would agree with you if I was convinced that the lesson was learned by those who cover up or deny guilt. The frum community is far from that point Rav Belsky still claims he is innocent. This is shock therapy for those who still do not grasp.
I feel sorry for him. I do believe he was molested as a prepubescent child and initially did the things that were modeled on him.
However, here we are in the present. The family he victimized has been punished for doing the right thing and forced out of Lakewood. When Lakewood's guilty leadership do tshuvah and welcome the family back, it will be time to shift the emphasis from publicizing the criminal to rehabiitation and mercy. We are not at that point yet.
The news of the conviction and sentence needed to be spread, and this site did that, as did many others. The public needed to know, just as those who earned a death penalty for various transgressions were executed publicly. The corpses were then hung out in public (to insure the exposure). The posuk then tells us that the body was to be taken down and buried. The body was NOT to be left hanging overnight. I guess the publicity was needed, and then it needs to be buried.
I am as upset as anyone about the failure of R' Belsky as well as the involved rabbonim in Lakewood for failing to issue a public apology to Rabbi S. who was wrongly humiliated and chased away. The discussion of that issue needs to continue until there is resolution.
Any and all prevention efforts (especially those learned from this latest event) should be implemented and mandatory for all schools, yeshivos, and camps.
All said, I fail to see the use of this additional publicity about the incarceration of this molester. He's away. Leave him there. And invest energy into finding others and getting rid of them. This posting is like taking a piece of already-chewed gum.
If everyone was like you, I would agree. But try and put yourself inside the minds of many who still refuse to see what is going on. This is useful shock therapy- eye opening and sobering.
It also has a another benefit. The next person who is arrested may agree rather quickly to a plea bargain sparing the victim the need to testify, eliminating the endless arguments about innocence, and shortening by a lot the window for intimidating witnesses that leads many such charges to be abandoned.
Looks like he's got a piece of paper or napkin on his head. הכל בידי שמים חוץ מיראת שמים.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the purpose of this post?
ReplyDeleteIt was suggested that some might take his conviction more seriously if they saw the reality of this
DeleteThe purpose of this post if to make ourselves feel good by reveling in this individuals misery.
DeleteDick Tracy sorry that you feel good at Kolko's misery. My reaction was just the opposite. The post emphasizes the seriousness of the consequences of abuse. Studies indicate that jail or the clear threat of jail is one of the few things that makes a pedophile less like to molest.
DeleteI wonder. Once the perpetrator is away from where he can pose danger to our children, what is there to gain with publicity? While a staunch advocate of protecting children, I cannot be supportive of many of the "advocates", who I see as far more willing to baschmutz than to protect. I am personally thrilled that this perp is locked up, and I hope his reputation will follow him when eventually released. Still, dragging this garbage through the streets is not terribly useful.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should spend more time studying Torah and less time on the internet. Why were punishments public spectacles?
DeleteAmong many examples are:
Devarim 13
7. If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, you, nor your fathers;
Sanhedrin (89a):
MISHNAH. HE [THE REBELLIOUS ELDER] WAS EXECUTED NEITHER BY HIS LOCAL BETH DIN NOR BY THE BETH DIN AT JABNEH,4 BUT WAS TAKEN TO THE GREAT BETH DIN IN JERUSALEM AND KEPT THERE UNTIL THE [NEXT] FESTIVAL5 AND EXECUTED THEREON, FOR IT IS WRITTEN, ‘AND ALL THE PEOPLE SHALL HEAR AND FEAR, AND DO NO MORE PRESUMPTUOUSLY:’6 THIS IS R. AKIBA'S OPINION. R. JUDAH SAID: HIS JUDGMENT MUST NOT BE DELAYED, BUT HE IS EXECUTED IMMEDIATELY, WHILST PROCLAMATIONS ARE INDITED AND SENT BY MESSENGERS TO ALL PLACE, ‘SO AND SO HAS BEEN SENTENCED TO DEATH AT BETH DIN.[...]
Our Rabbis taught: Public announcements must be made for four [malefactors]: a mesith, a ‘stubborn and rebellious’ son, a rebellious elder, and witnesses who were proved zomemim.7 In the case of all [others]8 it is written, And all the people, or, and all Israel; but in the case of witnesses proved zomemim it is written, And those which remain [shall hear and fear],9 since not all are eligible to be witnesses.10
8. Of the gods of the people who are around you, near you, or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth;
9. You shall not yield to him, nor listen to him; nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him;
10. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
11. And you shall stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
12. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
This is discussed in more detail in the following post
Deletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2013/06/the-torah-views-publicizing-punishment.html
Protect Our Kids,
ReplyDeleteI would agree with you if I was convinced that the lesson was learned by those who cover up or deny guilt. The frum community is far from that point Rav Belsky still claims he is innocent. This is shock therapy for those who still do not grasp.
I feel sorry for him. I do believe he was molested as a prepubescent child and initially did the things that were modeled on him.
However, here we are in the present. The family he victimized has been punished for doing the right thing and forced out of Lakewood. When Lakewood's guilty leadership do tshuvah and welcome the family back, it will be time to shift the emphasis from publicizing the criminal to rehabiitation and mercy. We are not at that point yet.
DT & YL:
ReplyDeleteThe news of the conviction and sentence needed to be spread, and this site did that, as did many others. The public needed to know, just as those who earned a death penalty for various transgressions were executed publicly. The corpses were then hung out in public (to insure the exposure). The posuk then tells us that the body was to be taken down and buried. The body was NOT to be left hanging overnight. I guess the publicity was needed, and then it needs to be buried.
I am as upset as anyone about the failure of R' Belsky as well as the involved rabbonim in Lakewood for failing to issue a public apology to Rabbi S. who was wrongly humiliated and chased away. The discussion of that issue needs to continue until there is resolution.
Any and all prevention efforts (especially those learned from this latest event) should be implemented and mandatory for all schools, yeshivos, and camps.
All said, I fail to see the use of this additional publicity about the incarceration of this molester. He's away. Leave him there. And invest energy into finding others and getting rid of them. This posting is like taking a piece of already-chewed gum.
Protect Our Kids,
ReplyDeleteIf everyone was like you, I would agree. But try and put yourself inside the minds of many who still refuse to see what is going on. This is useful shock therapy- eye opening and sobering.
It also has a another benefit. The next person who is arrested may agree rather quickly to a plea bargain sparing the victim the need to testify, eliminating the endless arguments about innocence, and shortening by a lot the window for intimidating witnesses that leads many such charges to be abandoned.
No complained when levi ahrons picture was put up. no one complained when dweks picture was put up. You cant have a double standard
ReplyDelete