Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and senior Shas members took the opportunity to castigate the Power to Influence (Koach Lehashpia) party led by Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak at the rabbi’s weekly Saturday night lecture.”Such a party represents merit at the expense of transgression. How dare they oppose our well-established party, with decades of experience and support of Torah authorities?” "
Notices appeared around Bnei Brak on Wednesday night the eve of 14 Teves 5773 containing a letter written by Mekubal Chacham Avraham Chai, who was believed to be supporting the Koach L’Hashpiah Party headed by Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak. The pashkavilim state there is a mitzvah to “only” adhere to the voice of Maran Posek Hador Rav Ovadia Yosef.
According to Kikar Shabbat, a number of individuals visited Chacham Avraham Chai on Wednesday, 13 Teves to and discussed the situation, as Rav Amnon Yitzchak explains he is being harassed without the tzibur understanding the entire story.
As a result of that meeting, the Rav felt compelled to write the letter instructing the tzibur the “mitzvah” is to adhere to Maran HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita.
Shas spiritual leader for the first time, publicly criticizes Rabbi Yitzhak for establishing his own political party.
For the first time Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has openly and publicly criticized Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak for establishing his own political party, which will be contesting the upcoming election.
Yitzhak is a well-known haredi outreach preacher who seeks to “return” secular Israelis, especially Sephardim, to Orthodox Judaism, and Shas is concerned that Yitzhak’s Hakoah Lehashpia party will divert votes away from it.
Speaking on Saturday night in his weekly Torah lesson, Yosef accused Yitzhak of seeking to “perform a commandment through transgressing,” by running in the election.
“Instead of him [Yitzhak] helping us, he is going down a separate path, he’s splitting from us,” Yosef said.
The Shas leader also argued that Yitzhak was defying the wishes of senior haredi rabbis in the country who have also publicly opposed the establishment of Hakoah Lehashpia “‘Adhere closely to the sages,’ these are the words of our rabbis,” Yosef said in reference to Yitzhak.
Although recent opinion polls do not see Hakoah Lehashpia passing the electoral threshold to get into the Knesset, a Haaretz poll published on Wednesday had Yitzhak’s party gaining 1 percent of the vote. The threshold for entry is 2%.
“People thinking about voting for Yitzhak come from the pool of potential Shas voters,” a Shas party official said.
“This is why Rabbi Ovadia has come out openly against him because even though Yitzhak’s party will not make it into the Knesset he may divert enough votes from Shas to cause us to lose a seat.”
Rabbi Shalom Cohen, a member of Shas’s rabbinical decision-making body the Council of Torah Sages and dean of the Porat Yosef Yeshiva in the Old City of Jerusalem, spoke before Yosef, and stridently attacked Yitzhak’s actions.
“He is losing his [place] in the world [to come],” Cohen said. “The one who brings people to repent is now himself in need of someone to bring him to repent.”
In response to rabbinical attacks on the establishment of his party, Yitzhak claimed that Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, the spiritual leader of Ashkenazi haredi Jewry, had lent him his support.
In a meeting between Shteinman and Cohen on Thursday, however, [Rav] Shteinman categorically denied any connection to Yitzhak’s political venture, and assured Cohen that the only party he is backing is United Torah Judaism.
The meeting was recorded in audio and the recording was published on Sunday by haredi news website Kikar Hashabbat.
Yitzhak’s formation of Hakoah Lehashpia has angered the Shas political and spiritual leadership, due to what is seen as a critical time for haredi issues and the religious status quo, which is coming under increasing threat from the mainstream parties and electorate..."
Chacham Ovadiah Yosef, head of Shas’ Moetzet Chachmei Hatorah, issued sharp words of condemnation regarding those who will vote or build support in Israel’s upcoming election for any party but the two established chareidi parties, namely Shas and Yahadut Hatorah.
“They must be aware of the Judgment Day,” said Chacham Ovadiah.
“What will they answer Hakadosh Baruch Hu on that day? He will tell them that they forsook the Torah and left it in the hands of the evildoers. May G-d upset the plans of our enemies,” said Chacham Ovadiah.
Later, in his regular Motzoei Shabbos drasha, he said, referring to Rav Amnon Yitzhak’s Koach Lehashpia party and Chaim Amsallem’s Am Shaleim party, that ”Such a party represents a mitzvah habaah ba’aveirah. How dare they oppose our well- established party, with decades of experience and support of Torah authorities?”
If the issue is the sin of breaking with Shass, that is quite different than what people wrote here. I am not sure what of the 613 mitsvose has been violated by one who has his own following and studied much Torah and now wants a different politics. For instance, is every Sefardi who votes for another party a sinner? And what if someone who has his own Torah following who honestly disagrees with the way Shass is doing thing decides to follow his own understanding in Torah? Is he automatically a sinner? We have many gemoras where someone would argue with their rebbe in halacha and even with their father who was the Gadol HaDor. I can assume that in halacha areas a great Torah scholar has more influence than upon the choice of political parties and political matters. I can understand that even one who may be a sinner to defy a halacha ruling of such a great scholar may not be a sinner if the argument is about politics. And if we disagree and say that is also a sin, still, it has to be put into perspective, if the person thinks it is not a sin. Where is the proof that it is a sin? I would like to know for myself. In general, the obligation to follow a great posek depends on whether people have accepted him and how they have accepted him. The rabbi of a city who is accepted by the citizens of the city has great authority. But other than that, things get fuzzy. To attack and besmirch a person for breaking with a political party is a serious matter. I would like to know the source for it.
My understanding of the complaint(not sure if it is valid or not, and I'm not taking sides) is, aside from breaking with Shas, and thus leading to a possibility of less religious representation in the Knesset. Is that he is breaking with Shas, and more or less claiming that Rav Ovadia is cool with it, as the above flier from just this past Shabbat, shows.
"Dovid Eidensohn said...To attack and besmirch a person for breaking with a political party is a serious matter. I would like to know the source for it."
Dear Rabbi Dovid Eidensohn, your question should be addressed to Rav Ovadya Yosef, we cannot speak for him, he is the rashkebehag of the Sefardim and not Amon Yitzhak (AY), so please take a look at the following very recent YouTube video of AY cursing out the rabbis who do not agree with him...can you imagine such a nut job in the Knesset or on the international media circuit, Al Jazeera will use him to besmirch every last Jew on Earth:
12 minutes in Hebrew, where it seems perhaps planted interviewers-questioners ask him soft-ball questions in his favor about the elections, why he split from Shas and about Rav Ovadya Yosef and then AY launches into his diatribes and self-justifies himself:
The remarks were published here in this website and I listened to it. He curses those who attacked him and called him terrible names. This is a far cry from what you write that he cursed "those who do not agree with him." Whether or not one may curse such people is an interesting halacha shaalo, but one thing, Tehilim is filled with such things. And if he does curse those who try to destroy him and his movement, even if you would say it is forbidden, we must take into account the terrible pain he has, and this does not make him necessarily a "nut job." The gemora is filled with curses for less things. I don't say it is right. I just say it does not make someone a "nut job." It is forbidden to punch somebody. But if somebody punched me, I might punch him back. Is this right? What would you do?
If you were to watch the video ay put out against Rabbi Finger, and how Rabbi Finger didn't respond you would understand a lot more about what's going on. It's a pity ay took it down after Rav Shteinman told him to. Telling people they will die a terrible death doesn't make you great in my eyes.
I have a lot of pain from what is going on. RAY was always doing things that nobody else did, and nobody else could be his rebbe in it. He was treated with the greatest respect by major rabbonim, despite doing things that another person would not be able to do. Somebody once got some signatures against him and a Gadol HaDor took the paper and tore it up. It was recognized that he was going his own way, a great way, but his unique path could invite criticism. The gadol who tore up the protest paper realized that his greatness is worth suffering for. The Brisker Rov once said a similar thing, when he accepted Reb Shimshom Rafel Hirsch despite some of his statements. People who rip up mountains are in their own world, with HaShem, and other people, even Gedolim, allow them to proceed at their own pace, usually. Also, I believe that RAY has the genius to do things the right way even in politics, and he will learn from his mistakes. Such a person may do many unique things in his life, and they will be accepted, as long as he stays out of politics. Politics, in Israel, is money, and everybody knows what that means. Also, Sefardim have a unique love of community (and the shull) that Ashkenazim do not have. The politics of RAY defies politics, and it made an explosion. When two people fight in the name of HaShem, only HaShem can settle things. Let us pray for peace.
"Exclusive recording of meeting between Hagr"s Cohen and Hagry"l Steinman
HaGaon R' Shalom Cohen and Hgri"h Kofshitz asked R' Aharon Leib Steinman: Can one advertise that the Rosh Yeshiva does not have any connection with Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak?
Sari Roth, Behadrey Haredim , 7 Jan 2013 10:50 (Israel time)
Rabbi Shalom Cohen, head of Yeshivat Porat Yosef, and a member of the Council of Torah Sages of the Shas party, arrived on Thursday evening with Hagaon Harav Yosef Chaim Kofshitz,a Magid Shiur at the yeshiva – at R' Aharon Leib's house to talk to him about the party 'power to influence' of Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak.
• This is Harav Shalom Cohen, head of Yeshivat Porat Yosef.
Hagr"s Cohen: "Harav Amnon Yitzhak publishes in the name of the Rosh Yeshiva that his honor supports him and many Bnei Yeshivos are confused because of this."
Hagaon R' Aharon Leib Steinman: "We never discussed it."
Hagr"s Cohen: "Can we get in writing?"
R' Aharon Leib: "Why do I have to write. Everything must be written. "
Hagr"s Cohen: "Does the Rosh Yeshiva object to him?"
R' Aharon Leib: "No yes, not no, I do not have anything to do with him."
Hagr"s Cohen: "Can one advertise that the Rosh Yeshiva does not have anything to do with him?"
R' Aharon Leib: "Yes, I have already instructed and it was published in the newspaper."
• Can he write that he heard from the Rosh Yeshiva?
R' Aharon Leib: "Yes, yes".
Hagr"s Cohen: "Will the Rav bless us that we should merit to increase Torah, a longevity of life and health for Am Yisrael."
R' Aharon Leib: "Except for Yahadut Hatorah, I do not support anyone"."
This could be a proof that somebody is lying, but not necessarily. It could be that somebody was being polite and warm and this was misunderstood. Or it could be that somebody was happy to encourage someone until it turned into a vicious machlokess. I feel very sorry for RAY because whoever backs him becomes a mortal enemy of powerful people. So who will back him? But does that mean he is wrong? I don't think so. RAY has a great challenge here, and so do his followers. In a community where everything revolves around Gedolim, being alone is a terrible problem. Qhoever destroys such a person will be proud of himself, but I won't be proud of him, and I don't envy such a person. I will just say this. I do things I heard from Reb Moshe Feinstein, Reb Yaacov Kaminetsky and other Gedolei HADor of the past generation. Today's Torah leaders often do just the opposite. Sometimes I attack them ferociously. That is how I do things, but I obey my rebbes the Gedolim of the past generation. And people, even the ones I attack, know that. So I am safe. But for someone to function in the Torah world alone is a terrible challenge, but one who is so close to HaShem will succeed in it.
I explained my feelings in the above post, maybe you didn't see it. If you want to destroy people who do wrong things, what would you do with Dovid HaMeledch? People like you and me have a basically small worlds and we have few opportunities to be attacked by the great powers. But someone who plays in the hardball league, such as Israeli politics, when everyone shoots leshaim shomayim, it is best not to join the mob. If you hate someone you are a sinner. But if you are fighting for HaShem, there is no boundary. RAY is expanding his horizons, and he has birth pains, and maybe does things he will learn not to do. I think he means well, and if he has erred, he will learn, and "if you see a Talmid Chochom sin at night, know that he has repented by day." I think that people like me should not pass judegment on a person who has spent his life doing good things. You focus on certain negative things he said. What about when he said he worked for 35 years and did not seek money? Why don't we discuss that?
Why do you allow such loshon hara on your site? Did you even bother to hear Rav Amnon Yitzchak directly? He is a great talmid chochom. He never said anything against Rav Ovadia Yosef, and you can hear it in the video on his site. You can hear him live every night on www.shofar.tv/live , and you will hear for yourself, how he respects Rav Ovadia. People who are against him lied to Rav Ovadia that he spoke against him.
Rav Amnon NEVER had anything to do with Shas, and never got anything from them. He doesn't try to take anything away from them. He only helped them, by bringing sefardi baalei teshuva. Speaking against a talmid chacham brings terrible punishment upon the person, which is brought down in the gemara. Rav Amnon NEVER cursed the people who wrote the letter against him, and for sure not the Rabanim. He ONLY said that the ones who wrote it will suffer for speaking loshon hara against him. All those who write against him here and elsewhere will be punished too, as the Torah says ארור מקלה רעהו בסתר.
I think that all the lashon hara and lies should be taken off this site.
Dovid, The3 Chofetz Chaim once wrote a letter against certain frumeh rabbis, and they responded, "The Chofetz Chaim is speaking Loshon Hora." The Chofetz Chaim then spent money to answer them, that when people are doing the wrong things we some times must publicly attack them. We find in Chazal that people would respond to a sinner by putting him in cherem that was publicized. We just don't sit and watch the world when people do things that can destroy it. The political world is a very public world and it has a potential for much mischief. People have an obligation to protect themselves and the world by speaking out on what they perceive to be dangers to the community or the Torah. Of course, people can and do disagree. But to silence all debate as Loshon Hora is not right. You surely meant well, but you said things about punishing people that could also use some eraser. There is a gemora in Bovo Basro about someone who hears that a person complains that his field has been stolen, and he then repeats what he heard to others. Without such things, the thieves would have no problems and nobody's property would be safe. Of course, we don't believe everything we hear, that is wrong. But we can be suspicious without being vicious. It is not easy to open your mouth, but let us not make people helpless against destroyers. Note that my brother allowed me to voice my opinion which was the opposite of his. This is an open forum. I note that 53,000 people visit this site, and all of its opinions, and they are all welcome to express themselves. I express myself very forcefully, but this business of promising punishment is not my line.
Israel National News - Arutz Sheva:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/259141#.UOoozVI9WKJ
"Rabbi Yosef: Avoid ‘Power to Influence’
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and senior Shas members took the opportunity to castigate the Power to Influence (Koach Lehashpia) party led by Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak at the rabbi’s weekly Saturday night lecture.”Such a party represents merit at the expense of transgression. How dare they oppose our well-established party, with decades of experience and support of Torah authorities?” "
Yeshiva World News:
ReplyDelete"http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/150456/Mekubal-Chacham-Avraham-Chai-Stands-Up-for-Rav-Ovadia%E2%80%99s-Kovod.html
"Mekubal Chacham Avraham Chai Stands Up for Rav Ovadia’s Kovod
(Friday, December 28th, 2012)
Notices appeared around Bnei Brak on Wednesday night the eve of 14 Teves 5773 containing a letter written by Mekubal Chacham Avraham Chai, who was believed to be supporting the Koach L’Hashpiah Party headed by Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak. The pashkavilim state there is a mitzvah to “only” adhere to the voice of Maran Posek Hador Rav Ovadia Yosef.
According to Kikar Shabbat, a number of individuals visited Chacham Avraham Chai on Wednesday, 13 Teves to and discussed the situation, as Rav Amnon Yitzchak explains he is being harassed without the tzibur understanding the entire story.
As a result of that meeting, the Rav felt compelled to write the letter instructing the tzibur the “mitzvah” is to adhere to Maran HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)"
The Jerusalem Post:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=298633
"Ovadia Yosef attacks maverick Amnon Yitzhak
By JEREMY SHARON
01/06/2013
Shas spiritual leader for the first time, publicly criticizes Rabbi Yitzhak for establishing his own political party.
For the first time Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has openly and publicly criticized Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak for establishing his own political party, which will be contesting the upcoming election.
Yitzhak is a well-known haredi outreach preacher who seeks to “return” secular Israelis, especially Sephardim, to Orthodox Judaism, and Shas is concerned that Yitzhak’s Hakoah Lehashpia party will divert votes away from it.
Speaking on Saturday night in his weekly Torah lesson, Yosef accused Yitzhak of seeking to “perform a commandment through transgressing,” by running in the election.
“Instead of him [Yitzhak] helping us, he is going down a separate path, he’s splitting from us,” Yosef said.
The Shas leader also argued that Yitzhak was defying the wishes of senior haredi rabbis in the country who have also publicly opposed the establishment of Hakoah Lehashpia “‘Adhere closely to the sages,’ these are the words of our rabbis,” Yosef said in reference to Yitzhak.
Although recent opinion polls do not see Hakoah Lehashpia passing the electoral threshold to get into the Knesset, a Haaretz poll published on Wednesday had Yitzhak’s party gaining 1 percent of the vote. The threshold for entry is 2%.
“People thinking about voting for Yitzhak come from the pool of potential Shas voters,” a Shas party official said.
“This is why Rabbi Ovadia has come out openly against him because even though Yitzhak’s party will not make it into the Knesset he may divert enough votes from Shas to cause us to lose a seat.”
Rabbi Shalom Cohen, a member of Shas’s rabbinical decision-making body the Council of Torah Sages and dean of the Porat Yosef Yeshiva in the Old City of Jerusalem, spoke before Yosef, and stridently attacked Yitzhak’s actions.
“He is losing his [place] in the world [to come],” Cohen said. “The one who brings people to repent is now himself in need of someone to bring him to repent.”
In response to rabbinical attacks on the establishment of his party, Yitzhak claimed that Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, the spiritual leader of Ashkenazi haredi Jewry, had lent him his support.
In a meeting between Shteinman and Cohen on Thursday, however, [Rav] Shteinman categorically denied any connection to Yitzhak’s political venture, and assured Cohen that the only party he is backing is United Torah Judaism.
The meeting was recorded in audio and the recording was published on Sunday by haredi news website Kikar Hashabbat.
Yitzhak’s formation of Hakoah Lehashpia has angered the Shas political and spiritual leadership, due to what is seen as a critical time for haredi issues and the religious status quo, which is coming under increasing threat from the mainstream parties and electorate..."
Matzav.com:
ReplyDeletehttp://matzav.com/chacham-ovadiah-strongly-condemns-those-not-voting-for-shas-or-utj
"Chacham Ovadiah Strongly Condemns Those Not Voting for Shas or UTJ
Sunday January 6, 2013
Chacham Ovadiah Yosef, head of Shas’ Moetzet Chachmei Hatorah, issued sharp words of condemnation regarding those who will vote or build support in Israel’s upcoming election for any party but the two established chareidi parties, namely Shas and Yahadut Hatorah.
“They must be aware of the Judgment Day,” said Chacham Ovadiah.
“What will they answer Hakadosh Baruch Hu on that day? He will tell them that they forsook the Torah and left it in the hands of the evildoers. May G-d upset the plans of our enemies,” said Chacham Ovadiah.
Later, in his regular Motzoei Shabbos drasha, he said, referring to Rav Amnon Yitzhak’s Koach Lehashpia party and Chaim Amsallem’s Am Shaleim party, that ”Such a party represents a mitzvah habaah ba’aveirah. How dare they oppose our well- established party, with decades of experience and support of Torah authorities?”
{Matzav.com Israel News Bureau}"
If the issue is the sin of breaking with Shass, that is quite different than what people wrote here. I am not sure what of the 613 mitsvose has been violated by one who has his own following and studied much Torah and now wants a different politics. For instance, is every Sefardi who votes for another party a sinner? And what if someone who has his own Torah following who honestly disagrees with the way Shass is doing thing decides to follow his own understanding in Torah? Is he automatically a sinner? We have many gemoras where someone would argue with their rebbe in halacha and even with their father who was the Gadol HaDor. I can assume that in halacha areas a great Torah scholar has more influence than upon the choice of political parties and political matters. I can understand that even one who may be a sinner to defy a halacha ruling of such a great scholar may not be a sinner if the argument is about politics. And if we disagree and say that is also a sin, still, it has to be put into perspective, if the person thinks it is not a sin. Where is the proof that it is a sin? I would like to know for myself. In general, the obligation to follow a great posek depends on whether people have accepted him and how they have accepted him. The rabbi of a city who is accepted by the citizens of the city has great authority. But other than that, things get fuzzy. To attack and besmirch a person for breaking with a political party is a serious matter. I would like to know the source for it.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding of the complaint(not sure if it is valid or not, and I'm not taking sides) is, aside from breaking with Shas, and thus leading to a possibility of less religious representation in the Knesset. Is that he is breaking with Shas, and more or less claiming that Rav Ovadia is cool with it, as the above flier from just this past Shabbat, shows.
Delete"Dovid Eidensohn said...To attack and besmirch a person for breaking with a political party is a serious matter. I would like to know the source for it."
DeleteDear Rabbi Dovid Eidensohn, your question should be addressed to Rav Ovadya Yosef, we cannot speak for him, he is the rashkebehag of the Sefardim and not Amon Yitzhak (AY), so please take a look at the following very recent YouTube video of AY cursing out the rabbis who do not agree with him...can you imagine such a nut job in the Knesset or on the international media circuit, Al Jazeera will use him to besmirch every last Jew on Earth:
12 minutes in Hebrew, where it seems perhaps planted interviewers-questioners ask him soft-ball questions in his favor about the elections, why he split from Shas and about Rav Ovadya Yosef and then AY launches into his diatribes and self-justifies himself:
זוועה! דברים מבהילים מהרב אמנון יצחק מנתיבות
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HRsxMr0vQE&feature=player_embedded)
The remarks were published here in this website and I listened to it. He curses those who attacked him and called him terrible names. This is a far cry from what you write that he cursed "those who do not agree with him." Whether or not one may curse such people is an interesting halacha shaalo, but one thing, Tehilim is filled with such things. And if he does curse those who try to destroy him and his movement, even if you would say it is forbidden, we must take into account the terrible pain he has, and this does not make him necessarily a "nut job." The gemora is filled with curses for less things. I don't say it is right. I just say it does not make someone a "nut job." It is forbidden to punch somebody. But if somebody punched me, I might punch him back. Is this right? What would you do?
DeleteIf you were to watch the video ay put out against Rabbi Finger, and how Rabbi Finger didn't respond you would understand a lot more about what's going on. It's a pity ay took it down after Rav Shteinman told him to. Telling people they will die a terrible death doesn't make you great in my eyes.
DeleteI have a lot of pain from what is going on. RAY was always doing things that nobody else did, and nobody else could be his rebbe in it. He was treated with the greatest respect by major rabbonim, despite doing things that another person would not be able to do. Somebody once got some signatures against him and a Gadol HaDor took the paper and tore it up. It was recognized that he was going his own way, a great way, but his unique path could invite criticism. The gadol who tore up the protest paper realized that his greatness is worth suffering for. The Brisker Rov once said a similar thing, when he accepted Reb Shimshom Rafel Hirsch despite some of his statements. People who rip up mountains are in their own world, with HaShem, and other people, even Gedolim, allow them to proceed at their own pace, usually. Also, I believe that RAY has the genius to do things the right way even in politics, and he will learn from his mistakes. Such a person may do many unique things in his life, and they will be accepted, as long as he stays out of politics. Politics, in Israel, is money, and everybody knows what that means. Also, Sefardim have a unique love of community (and the shull) that Ashkenazim do not have. The politics of RAY defies politics, and it made an explosion. When two people fight in the name of HaShem, only HaShem can settle things. Let us pray for peace.
DeleteBehadrey Haredim:
ReplyDeleteNews: Israel
http://www.bholworld.com/Article_EN.aspx?id=49156&cat=18&scat=140
"Exclusive recording of meeting between Hagr"s Cohen and Hagry"l Steinman
HaGaon R' Shalom Cohen and Hgri"h Kofshitz asked R' Aharon Leib Steinman: Can one advertise that the Rosh Yeshiva does not have any connection with Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak?
Sari Roth, Behadrey Haredim , 7 Jan 2013 10:50 (Israel time)
Rabbi Shalom Cohen, head of Yeshivat Porat Yosef, and a member of the Council of Torah Sages of the Shas party, arrived on Thursday evening with Hagaon Harav Yosef Chaim Kofshitz,a Magid Shiur at the yeshiva – at R' Aharon Leib's house to talk to him about the party 'power to influence' of Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak.
• This is Harav Shalom Cohen, head of Yeshivat Porat Yosef.
Hagr"s Cohen: "Harav Amnon Yitzhak publishes in the name of the Rosh Yeshiva that his honor supports him and many Bnei Yeshivos are confused because of this."
Hagaon R' Aharon Leib Steinman: "We never discussed it."
Hagr"s Cohen: "Can we get in writing?"
R' Aharon Leib: "Why do I have to write. Everything must be written. "
Hagr"s Cohen: "Does the Rosh Yeshiva object to him?"
R' Aharon Leib: "No yes, not no, I do not have anything to do with him."
Hagr"s Cohen: "Can one advertise that the Rosh Yeshiva does not have anything to do with him?"
R' Aharon Leib: "Yes, I have already instructed and it was published in the newspaper."
• Can he write that he heard from the Rosh Yeshiva?
R' Aharon Leib: "Yes, yes".
Hagr"s Cohen: "Will the Rav bless us that we should merit to increase Torah, a longevity of life and health for Am Yisrael."
R' Aharon Leib: "Except for Yahadut Hatorah, I do not support anyone"."
This could be a proof that somebody is lying, but not necessarily. It could be that somebody was being polite and warm and this was misunderstood. Or it could be that somebody was happy to encourage someone until it turned into a vicious machlokess. I feel very sorry for RAY because whoever backs him becomes a mortal enemy of powerful people. So who will back him? But does that mean he is wrong? I don't think so. RAY has a great challenge here, and so do his followers. In a community where everything revolves around Gedolim, being alone is a terrible problem. Qhoever destroys such a person will be proud of himself, but I won't be proud of him, and I don't envy such a person. I will just say this. I do things I heard from Reb Moshe Feinstein, Reb Yaacov Kaminetsky and other Gedolei HADor of the past generation. Today's Torah leaders often do just the opposite. Sometimes I attack them ferociously. That is how I do things, but I obey my rebbes the Gedolim of the past generation. And people, even the ones I attack, know that. So I am safe. But for someone to function in the Torah world alone is a terrible challenge, but one who is so close to HaShem will succeed in it.
ReplyDeleteDid you watch the video he put out against Rav Fanger?
DeleteWhat's the excuse to do something like that?
I explained my feelings in the above post, maybe you didn't see it. If you want to destroy people who do wrong things, what would you do with Dovid HaMeledch? People like you and me have a basically small worlds and we have few opportunities to be attacked by the great powers. But someone who plays in the hardball league, such as Israeli politics, when everyone shoots leshaim shomayim, it is best not to join the mob. If you hate someone you are a sinner. But if you are fighting for HaShem, there is no boundary. RAY is expanding his horizons, and he has birth pains, and maybe does things he will learn not to do. I think he means well, and if he has erred, he will learn, and "if you see a Talmid Chochom sin at night, know that he has repented by day." I think that people like me should not pass judegment on a person who has spent his life doing good things. You focus on certain negative things he said. What about when he said he worked for 35 years and did not seek money? Why don't we discuss that?
ReplyDeleteTo Daniel Eidensohn:
ReplyDeleteWhy do you allow such loshon hara on your site?
Did you even bother to hear Rav Amnon Yitzchak directly?
He is a great talmid chochom.
He never said anything against Rav Ovadia Yosef, and you can hear it in the video on his site. You can hear him live every night on www.shofar.tv/live , and you will hear for yourself, how he respects Rav Ovadia. People who are against him lied to Rav Ovadia that he spoke against him.
Rav Amnon NEVER had anything to do with Shas, and never got anything from them. He doesn't try to take anything away from them.
He only helped them, by bringing sefardi baalei teshuva.
Speaking against a talmid chacham brings terrible punishment upon the person, which is brought down in the gemara.
Rav Amnon NEVER cursed the people who wrote the letter against him, and for sure not the Rabanim. He ONLY said that the ones who wrote it will suffer for speaking loshon hara against him.
All those who write against him here and elsewhere will be punished too, as the Torah says ארור מקלה רעהו בסתר.
I think that all the lashon hara and lies should be taken off this site.
Dovid,
ReplyDeleteThe3 Chofetz Chaim once wrote a letter against certain frumeh rabbis, and they responded, "The Chofetz Chaim is speaking Loshon Hora."
The Chofetz Chaim then spent money to answer them, that when people are doing the wrong things we some times must publicly attack them. We find in Chazal that people would respond to a sinner by putting him in cherem that was publicized. We just don't sit and watch the world when people do things that can destroy it. The political world is a very public world and it has a potential for much mischief. People have an obligation to protect themselves and the world by speaking out on what they perceive to be dangers to the community or the Torah. Of course, people can and do disagree. But to silence all debate as Loshon Hora is not right. You surely meant well, but you said things about punishing people that could also use some eraser. There is a gemora in Bovo Basro about someone who hears that a person complains that his field has been stolen, and he then repeats what he heard to others. Without such things, the thieves would have no problems and nobody's property would be safe. Of course, we don't believe everything we hear, that is wrong. But we can be suspicious without being vicious. It is not easy to open your mouth, but let us not make people helpless against destroyers. Note that my brother allowed me to voice my opinion which was the opposite of his. This is an open forum. I note that 53,000 people visit this site, and all of its opinions, and they are all welcome to express themselves. I express myself very forcefully, but this business of promising punishment is not my line.