Today the sirens in Jerusalem sounded at 2 p.m. - just after I got off the light train in front of city hall. There was no panic - much like a sudden rain storm - with everyone crowding into nearby store fronts. On the one hand the Palestinians are destroying their own existence in order to irritate the Jews but at the same time the Jews are over reacting. I head yesterday that there are Seminary Girls who are going back to America because they had to go to a bomb shelter on Shabbos. There are yeshiva guys who have left - because they don't want to be in a "war zone." I remember back a decade ago when we had the Gulf War and frumma Yidden were crowding Ben Gurion airport to get out from the rain of missiles. The gedolim said, "the chareidim have always claimed that they don't need to serve in the army because their learning is a greater shield against rockets. But now when things get dangerous our brothers and sisters are deserting us." There were roshei yeshiva who were so furious at this betrayal - that they said whoever leaves during war time should never come back
Arutz 7 A rocket exploded in an open area near an Arab village in Gush Etzion
around 2:15 p.m. as sirens wailed in Jerusalem during another barrage
of rockets and missiles unleashed by Hamas.
The missile exploded in an open area, and no one was injured.
At least one missile was aimed at Jerusalem last week and reportedly
exploded in an open area next to an Arab village in Gush Etzion, located
south of the capital.
Gosh, why not move Rav Kanievsky, shlit"a and his beis medrash to an open air spot in the middle of Yerushalayim so their learning can divert the missiles elsewhere?
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to be so sarcastic but the idea that the same community which shouts "We won't serve in the army! We're the real army through our learning!" runs at the first sign of trouble is incredibly annoying. Why should we take anything this community says anymore when it's clear even they don't believe their own rhetoric?
Even if they don't run, just the idea that their learning only serves their communities and neighborhoods is appalling.
Deletenobody has said that their learning only serves their community
DeleteWhen Rav Kanievsky, shlita, quoting the Chazon Ish, zatzal, says that Bnei Brak would be spared because of the learning there, he is implying that limud Torah is beneficial only to those who engage in Torah learning. This flies in the face of the argument that yeshiva bochrim do more to protect the Jews of Israel by learning than by joining the IDF.
DeleteNo, Bunsa. Rav Chaim said the Torah protects the entire city. Not just those who learn there.
DeleteHe is implying no such thing. The only implication is that limud Torah protects, and that as a concentrated centre of learning, BB will have a special protection. This does not mean that no protection will be afforded anywhere else.
DeleteYou have introduced the 'only' part into the sentence and from the tone of your comments this conveniently supports your pre conceived views.
Perhaps my views were formed by my son. He's in his second year at a hesder yeshiva. The Shiur Daled and Hey boys were called back to the reserves, and the yeshiva responded by signing the first and second year boys up to 24 hour a day learning shifts. They've been at it since Thursday night. Meanwhile, as of Shabbos, many Chareidi yeshivas did not even get together for special Tehillim sessions. The way I see it, my son, and others like him, do not weasel out of the army by claiming that specifically their Torah study is needed to protect the Am. Even before the 24 hour learning schedule was set up, my son was devoting 12-15 hours a day to learning. In August, he will be called up to protect the Am another way, as only unmarried 20 year old boys can. I thoroughly believe that Torah learning protects the Am, but it has to come from those who have ahavas Yisroel. Separating yourself from the rest of the nation may improve your learning, but it does nothing for your level of ahavas Yisroel.
Delete"The gedolim said, "the chareidim have always claimed that they don't need to serve in the army because their learning is a greater shield against rockets. But now when things get dangerous our brothers and sisters are deserting us." There were roshei yeshiva who were so furious at this betrayal - that they said whoever leaves during war time should never come back."
ReplyDeleteThe Gedolim never said any of this.
They most certainly did. Read the psak of the Tzietz Eliezer on the question of deferments for people learning.
DeleteCould you explain how you heard them not saying any of this?
Delete1) Frum people left during the war.
2) Gedolim commented about people leaving?
3) Gedolim were upset with this because of chilul hashem
4) Some roshei yeshivas said if you leave don't come back
Are you claiming they approved of people leaving during the war? A friend of mine asked Rav Eliashiv and he said unless your nerves can't handle it you should stay.
To claim that the Gedolim voiced an opinion about (chareidi) people leaving Eretz Yisrael during wartime requires some proof. To say that they did not say anything also requires proof and will be hard to do.
DeleteEither way does someone have a reference that can demonstrate either position other than "i heard" or "my friend told me"?
Didn't Rav Shteinman issue a call for Chareidim from the south to come to Bene Beraq last week?
DeleteIt sure doesn't if missles are heading for Bene Beraq and Yerushalayim.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone how many frum, dati, and even Charedi soldiers are in the photos and pictures coming out now? So many soldiers davening with kavana in front of their tanks, in fields, anywhere and everywhere as they await their orders with obvious bitachon. It is a kiddush Hashem. Years ago, in the times of the 1967 Six Day War and the 1973 Yom Kippur War you never saw this. There were some pictures of Lubavitchers running around putting on tefilin on soldiers, but now it's the soldiers themselves who are seen putting on their own tefilin. This is also a kiddush Hashem.
ReplyDeleteMany people from chutz la'aretz feel nervous because the media outside of Israel is much more focused on what could go wrong in Israel. It's natural that people with no experience of living in a war zone (Israel is one big war zone) should feel nervous and want to get away. Soon, there will be nowhere to run back to as more and more countries will not be homes to Jewish populations due to either the Holocaust or assimilation. The Jews of Israel will win because this is all about the coming of the true Mashiach.
By the way, does anyone know if it is a mitzva de'oraiysa to do mechiyas Amalek to the Hamas in Gaza anyone who joins them? because it sure looks like they qualify for the top spot of Amalekim mamash. Doesn't the RAMBAM say in hilchos melachim that one of the things that need to be done before the re-building of the 3rd Bais HaMikdosh is to wipe out Amalek? Now seems like a good time to start based on Hamas's sinas Yisroel be'poel.
R&P - nonsense.
ReplyDeletePictures of soldiers davening in taleisim with lulav and esrog were commonplace during the YK war.
There is no mitzva of mechiyas amolek today, because there is no amolek (or none that we can identify). No-one paskens differently.
The Rambam also says that the reason the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed was because they didn't study military strategy, not because of tznius, loshon horo, iphones, and certainly not because of the draft, punkt farkert.