Arutz Sheva The Seret-Vizhnitz Chassidic community in Haifa was shocked to discover this week that the man who for years had served as the local “Sabbath gentile” was in fact Jewish.
The Ladaat website, which revealed the story, reported that the man in question is of Romanian origin and himself believed that he and his entire family were Christian.
The Ladaat website, which revealed the story, reported that the man in question is of Romanian origin and himself believed that he and his entire family were Christian.
He worked for one of the Chassidic community’s institutions, and helped many people by performing activities prohibited to Jews on the Sabbath. A “Sabbath gentile” may assist in certain types of prohibited Sabbath labor.
where is RaP to mock this jew who was far from judaism? Where is RaP to mock the "rabbinic authority" who declared him jewish?
ReplyDeleteThis should be no shock and in fact it reflects a problem with the way Chasidim label the outside world because to them (the Chasidim) they call anyone not like them a "goy" and "shiksa". Thus ANYONE who is not like them (with peyos and black frok etc) or wearing what they regard as tznius clothing, that person is a "sheigetz" or "shiksa" even if he or she is MO, cool yeshivish, Mizrachi or less frum.
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, since Chasidim label secular Jews as "goyim" they also fall into the trap and believe their own propaganda and way of twisting reality to suit themselves, and lo and behold, someone they thought is a goy, turns out to be a Jew, duh!
But to be dan lekaf zechus, the fact also remains that of the approximately one million people that came to Israel from the former USSR and its satellite states from the 1980s onwards, it's known that anywhere from a quarter to one third of them, about 300,000 people in Israel, are not halachic Jews and many are outright gentiles that practice Christianity. So it's the fault of the Jewish Agency and the Israeli authorities and political powers that allowed them into Israel without making sure that they were 100% halachically Jewish. The Israeli government allowed anyone married to a Jew or even with a Jewish grandparent, as well as many liars who wanted to escape from Russia into Israel, so no surprise that many Charedim just label the entire 1 million as "goyim" -- that will continue to cause confusion.
Not sure what "indeed!" is carrying on about. This is not a case of proselytization nor did the Chasidim go looking for this Yid under every rock and and in every jungle like Shavei Israel. He was there in their midst, and finally they put 1+1 together and came up with the right answer of 2 (duh!), that any seasoned kiruv worker would have sniffed out and found out in one minute with a few key questions. But then again, Chasidim (besides Lubavitch and Breslov) don't have a high regard for kiruv workers either.
you didn't read the article. He did not know he was jewish, they concluded it form the fact that his mother lit candles and sang jewish lullabies...
ReplyDeleteTo "indeed!" 1:
ReplyDelete"indeed! said...you didn't read the article."
RaP: I read it a few times.
"He did not know he was jewish, they concluded it form the fact that his mother lit candles and sang jewish lullabies..."
RaP: First of all I don't know what you want from me? Just say you hate me and leave it at that. No need to come here and utter stupidities. What are you saying besides just mocking me while not giving an opinion of your own explaining what you mean and what you want instead of just pointing here and there aimlessly. Secondly, even from what you say, the Chasidim here were irresponsible in hiring this person on a long term basis to work on SHABBOS yet!! Since the majority of people from the former USSR and its satellite countries that came to Israel ARE halachicaly Jews, meaning they were born from a Jewish mother (and NOT that they were gentiles from non-Jewish fathers that were proselytized and maybe converted), the Chasidim here should have done a background checked and assumed that stam this person was probably almost certainly a Jew, without songs and lullabies, until proven otherwise, and NOT the other way around the way Chasidim look at secular Jews who come from Jewish mothers and fathers as if they were "goyim" -- that is where the problem probably crept in.
To "indeed!" 2:
ReplyDelete"indeed! said...where is RaP to mock this jew who was far from judaism?"
RaP: I do NOT mock Jews and certainly not Jews far from Judaism! That's just a lie from you. Genuine Jews far from Judaism are not the problem. It is fake "GEIRIM" who try to get fraudulent and easy conversions and then want to use that as either a "hechsher" to kasher their goyisah kids and thereby bring pure goyim into Klal Yisroel or they want an easy entry ticket to the good life in Israel by abusing Israel's Law of Return guidelines and taking advantage of the lack of clarity of MiHu Yehudi that leaves out the word "KEhalacha" that is the source of letting non-Jews fake it and claim they are "Jews" when they in fact gentiles. I also criticize PROSELYTIZING groups like Leib Tropper's EJF and Michael Freund's Shavei Israel and a few smaller wannabees. But this has NOTHING to do with what happened in this case. This man was somehow in Israel. Maybe he came as a laborer, maybe he came on aliya, maybe he is on extended vacation, the story does not specify, he worked for Chasidim on SHABBOS (what he did during the week is not said) and he was eventually identified as a Jew -- maybe if the Chasidishe employers who hired him for SHABBOS work would have spoken to his secular employers who he may have worked for during the week, they would have KNOWN that he was a Jew a lot earlier -- but then again, Chasidim do not really seriously talk to secular Israeli Jews because they consider them all to be "goyim". If I was hiring a Romanian in Israel I would assume that quite possibly he is Jewish in spite of what he knows and says, because too many secular Jews can't explain what being a Jew even means. And to make matters worse, most Chasidim regard all secular Jews as "goyim" so that makes for a tragic comedy of errors with tragic outcomes. In kiruv work everyone knows today that students with Jewish names are often gentiles (from gentile mothers and Jewish fathers) and those with non-Jewish names are often Jewish (from Jewish mothers and gentile fathers.) So it goes.
"Where is RaP to mock the "rabbinic authority" who declared him jewish?"
RaP Now you are ranting and talking utter trash. I have long held that legitimate geirim are acceptable even by geirus lenient standards, I have criticized the Syrian Jews' ban on geirim and the sweeping ruling by Dayan Sherman against Rav Drukman's geirim, because there are always a few cases that are valid and such things can only be handled on a case by case system. And for that, I have been criticized on this blog many times, so you obviously don't have a clue what you are saying and you'd be better off just saying your point of view giving logical reasons instead of just jumping up and down and pointing fingers, uttering soundbites of silliness.
The goy that baught the חמץ of מדינת ישראל for many years ( from abu gush) was faund to be jewish.
ReplyDelete"Cohen katan said...The goy that baught the חמץ of מדינת ישראל for many years ( from abu gush) was faund to be jewish."
ReplyDeleteCan you provide more details please. How can "מדינת ישראל" sell "all" its chometz? How would that work? Who found the goy to be Jewish, who was the rabbi who sold the chometz, and who dealt with the problem once it was discovered?
This is always going to be a problem in Israel, with so many Jews and "noch-shleppers" there and not all the cases and revelations of Jewish identity will be the same.
The story is famous...
ReplyDeleteAbout 20 years ago the 2 xhief rabbis discovered the goy for about 8 years was a jew
Rav yuda frank discoered this
Rav frank also discovered 1 year all the carmel wines had lemon salt which was חמץ before פסח... therabanut ( ro y) found a heter
ReplyDelete