The police found out about the alleged crimes only 18 months after the religious court was first informed of them, and indicted the teacher last month.
The teacher, Gil Goren, 45, lived and taught in a settlement in the northern West Bank. In 2010 a soldier living in the community said that Goren had raped him when he was a teen, but initially refused to file a police complaint. [....]
Nir Alfasa, the Public Defender's Office attorney representing Goren, said the evidence in the case was "old and very shaky by the time the rabbinic court was made aware of it and therefore the police were not involved, since the complaint was made anonymously."
Alfasa said his client would respond to the charges in court and that for the past two years "harmful behavior had not repeated itself."
Alfasa said his client would respond to the charges in court and that for the past two years "harmful behavior had not repeated itself."
Rabbanut, so what do you expect from them? They ignore halocho, they ignore the facts, big deal they are just another govt. beurocracy answerable to no one.
ReplyDeleteStan is right. Ever since Rav elyashiv and the Haredim took control of the Rabanut, they have ignored halacha. It is now all politics.
DeleteThis guy was haredi. The yeshiva was haredi.
Twenty years ago this case would never have gotten to the Rabanut. It is a sign that the haredi takeover of the Rabbanut is in full swing.
Rabbanut have very good teachers. Tthey learnned it from the charedim
ReplyDeleteI am sure if the guy was chiloni or Dati Leumi he will be reported to the polict.
ReplyDeleteJames. Rav Elyashiv resigned from the Rabbanut because of corruption. Another revisionist just like Michael tzadok. This is an infamous, notorious case involving R Goren and mazeirus that Reb Moshe and Reb Shlomo Zalman Auerbach were furious about
ReplyDeletethe difference between the chareidim and the tzionim is that the low level chareidim who can't get other jobs go on the rabbanut. no one considers them gedolim.
whereas your fake gedolim sit on the corrupt rabanut. Besides for Rav Zolty I cannot think of any other godol who has recently sat on the Rabbanut. And don't quote the mail in smicha guy.
Rav Elyashiv resigned because of the Goren issue, not because of corruption. (BTW, 40 years later, the haredim in the rabbanut would retroactively annul conversions for far less an offense than Langer)
DeleteRabbi Metzger was hand chosen by Elyashiv and answered to him. The Mizrachi community in Israel has long ago given up hope on the rabbanut which is now completely controlled by the Haredim.
Besides unlike James, I will condemn anyone who does something wrong, no matter the size of the reputation.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel a chareidi godol broke halocho then let us know. I will examine your allegations if true, I will have no problem saying he was wrong. otherwise why do these gedolim need to fast on yom kippur?
I dont wish to trample on the graves of the recently departed so I will refrain from listing their infractions of halacha. I dont want to make allegations.
DeleteI dont believe there is any value to the label "Gadol." It is a made up status. There is only Torah and Talmidei Hachamim. Everything else is narishkeit.
IT doesnt matter what your view is on the State of Israel or anything else. If you follow the Shulchan Aruch and live an honest life you are OK in my book. If you are knowledgeable in all of Torah, you are a talmid hacham in my book.
" If you are knowledgeable in all of Torah, you are a talmid hacham in my book." Only if you follow halocho. Not if you start being mattir mamzeirim. Nor if you start changing shulchan oruch like Ora and all its suporters do all the time.
ReplyDeletethere are no gedolim left - certainly not in the US where rabbis refuse to stand up against arko'oys, fake agunahs, mesirah, and lastly and not leastly child molestation.
Even worse is these rabbis refusal to help unless you are part of the rich and famous club. Justice is only a luxury the rich can afford these days.
James the issue that caused rav Elyashiv to resign was a distortion of halocho and even Reb Moshe and R Shlomo Zaman came out very strongly. It was a corruption of halocho. Who are you kidding? Not me that's for sure.
ReplyDeleteStanley, howabout a Haredi Dayan who worked for R' Elyashiv's BD - and was a rapist, and a child molestor in Nachlaot?
ReplyDeleteIn case u claim i am charedi bashing, sorry, but the sickness is widespread in Zionist circles too.
Stan, there was a large number of haredi Gedolim who came out against R Goren in that incident. If I wanted to be cynical , which I do, I would point out that the recent mass annulment of geirut by Dayan Sherman (who of course followed R' Elyashiv) was precisely the alleged distortion of R Goren - that u claim - but en masse. Plus, in the Langer/Boroklovsky case, there was no giur, and no evidence it took place. the guy couldn't even complete "Shema Yisrael". If such a fellow had appeared in front of Sherman, Sherman would have told him to go back to poland, and no haredi leader would blink an eye.
ReplyDeleteSo the alleged distortion of Halacha is a myth.
The real reasons behind this big piece of Haredi theatre were probably along the following lines:
~ Goren was a radical thinker, and his success in war, and blowing the shofar at the Kotel after 2000 years, was more of a humiliation to the Haredi world view than it was to the Arab armies.
~ R' Elyashiv had hitherto been in the Zionists camp, under R Herzog. I heard from an old man in the Tzioni camp that R Elyashiv had been threatened by the Haredim at that point, that if he stays in that camp, he would not be taken seriously. Plus in the modern and Zionist world, an aging gadol does not get the kind Kavod that he does in the Haredi world.
~Haredi world like a good crisis where they can unite against a perceived enemy, and this was a great opportunity to do this against Goren. They try this trick every few years, but it doesn't always work. R Svei tried it against R' Norman Lamm (YU), calling him Sonneh Hashem - but this didnt really become a good rallying cry, R Svei was not appointed the gadol HaDor, and the trick was not well received. These tricks often deflect attention from serious problems in the Haredi camp. The backdrop of the Goren case was a series of big fights amongst haredi gedolim, R Moshe was criminalized by Satmar rebbe (as was the CI). R' Shach was broiges with Brisk. So Goren was an easy target to create a bit of false unity amongst haredim, regardless of halacha.
The pattern has been followed most recently. The attack on Druckman conversions was also motivated by Haredi world's Vaad Linyanei ha Giur, as was announced every week in Yated. This was not only a sham in its own debauchery, but the annulment of geirus contradicted the very letter that the gedolim had signed 35 years earlier against Goren.
R' Ovadia was opposed to Goren's decision in 72, but he was consistent in his view, and also opposed to the annulment of giur by Sherman.
Like I said before, you can't have your cake and eat it, and not say mezonos.
I will make the following declaration for the last time so that Eddie stops with his obfuscation and irrelevant rants already.
ReplyDeleteNo rabbi, no great, how knowledgable, how inluential, how rich, how connected, no matter what yichus, no matter how chareidi is permitted to do anything in violation of halocho.
Nor may they cover up abuse and sins of others. On the contrary they have an obligation to fulfill "uvi'arto hora mikerbecho" to the full extenet that they are capable of doing this.
Hence I have already condemned belsky, dovid cohen, malkiel kotler for his recent cover-up of his cousin's despicable behavior, elya ber for running to the rich all the time etc many times for their own misdeeds. And the same goes for the agudah which has covered up molestation for decades and arko'oys for at least 20 years now.
Now you do likewise and condemn r' herschel schachter for violating halocho on many fronts including issuing fake siruvim, being malbin pnei chaveiro of innocent men, of not fighting arko'oys. and similarly to all members of the bda including "rabbis" willig, gedalia schwartz and michael broyde".
doubt this post will make it though.
The problem is that when you say "halacha" you dont mean Shulchan Aruch. You mean halacha as you define it.
DeleteThis isnt an accusation. I recognize that you have a different worldview. For me, the Shulchan Aruch is paramount. As long as you follow that, I am willing to accept different points of view.
For you, halacha is not set. You think that there is a proper halachik persepctive on, just to choose an example, the State of Israel. For you, it doesnt matter how much Torah someone learns, how honest a life they lead, or how well they keep the entire Shulchan Aruch. If they believe in the State of Israel, they are not following halacha.
Am I correct?
"The problem is that when you say "halacha" you dont mean Shulchan Aruch. You mean halacha as you define it."
ReplyDeleteNo offence but this must be taken from Goebbels. For you "the shulchan oruch is paramount". Well the shulchan oruch is pretty unequivocal, someone in arko'oys is put in cheirem, not her spouse who is not.
Yet you refuse to condemn and I quote from previous posting (which was not censored) "r' herschel schachter for violating halocho on many fronts including issuing fake siruvim, being malbin pnei chaveiro of innocent men, of not fighting arko'oys. and similarly to all members of the bda including "rabbis" willig, gedalia schwartz and michael broyde".
I think that says it all. Please explain to me how they or the rabbanut which forces gittin all the time keep the entire shulchan oruch when they are uprooting important parts of choshen mishpot and even ho'ezer?
I am not sure what you mean by believing in the State of Israel? It is a historic and present reality and the yidden would be killed left and right by the Arabs if they were given power. Proof look at Syria how they kill each other. So obviously we are much better off under the tzionim than under the arabs!!!!!!!!!!
Nonetheless, the Chazon Ish took off his glasses not to look in ben Gurion's face!!
If you are asking about believing in the army? If someone is learning properly of course not. If he is not and there is a kosher misgeret, Rav Shteinman holds yes, other hold no.
However, I will say thius unequivocally, the Brisker Rov was against any State involvement in yiddishkeit and I the nothing in comparison agree with him that it is ossur to step into their corridors of power when in reality they are real puppets (not nemo sock puppets) of those who hate the torah or maybe today just plain am' ho'ratzim.
So please before you try and obfuscate about my views, first hear them.
I think it is you frankly does not equate halocho with the shulchan oruch but rather with the BDA, getora and r' schachter.
kol ha'posel be mumo posel.
Please condemn those who violate the torah just as I have before you make accusations.
The Chazon Ish did not take off his glasses. That is a myth.
DeleteI dont know why you keep asking me to condemn individuals I do not know. (I am not MO. I know quite a few Haredim that I would readily condemn beginning with some of my Rebbeim.) I am not going to condemn people based on "facts" you allege on a blog.
I would never go to the BDA or Machon Lehoraah or any other corrupt Beis Din.
I am sick and tired of the American Batei Din. They are all corrupt!
How is that for condemnation?
The rabbanut has jurisdiction over gittin and kiddushin. That makes them a BD Kavua. They have the power to impose RT. They are following the Shulchan Aruch because there are no issues of Arkaos. Imposing RT is within their discretion.
A simple search will reveal that the Rabbanut is viewed as very male friendly (especially since the Rav Elyashiv got his revenge and took over the Rabbanut). The Mizrachi hate the Rabbanut more and more every day. If they are corrupt it is only recently.
Rav Elyashiv didnt really resign after the Langer case. He retired. He retired with a full pension, the same pension given their Supreme Court justices.
None of this has anything to do with Aharon and Tamar. Everyone agrees that the marriage is over. He doesnt want to live with her anymore. He was the first one to go to Arkaos. He is the plaintiff!
Stan, I never thought I would say this but well done!
ReplyDeleteAs you may have noticed I condemned some so -called religous zionsit molestors, and the colour of one's kippa does not affect the colour of one's heart.
On the issue of r' Shachter, I condemned nobody, since I don't know enough about the specific halachos to take a stand.
Also your comments about the State are interesting as you are showing some good rational thought. The arabs have no problem using warplanes to mass murder their own muslim brethren. Kal v'chomer what would they do against us if they had the chance.
As for secular zionism - there is no secular zionism. they are living in darkness. But remember what rambam writes about a man who goes fishing on Shabbat and saves another (drowning) man's life - he has not broken that shabbat. If the secularists perform certain mitzvot, they are not secular whilst they do it. similarly, if frum people commit certain aveirot,they r not frum while they do them.
BTW, the war in Syria, where Al Qaeda types are fighting Syria, Hizbolla types is an act of Hashem. They are turning their murderous swords against each other, destroying assad's army, which he had built to fight Israel with.
The goal of zionism is not to uproot the Torah, but to reinstate it. Unfortunately, some communists got in on the act, and tried to prevent geula from happening, with a bit of help from Satmar and some other Haredi gedolim.
Eddie
ReplyDelete"On the issue of r' Shachter, I condemned nobody, since I don't know enough about the specific halachos to take a stand."
Then how in the world can you argue as you have in the past that someone must receive a Get?
I am as rational about get issues as I am about Israel.
"The goal of zionism is not to uproot the Torah, but to reinstate it." reb chaim brisker said the exact opposite. however jews who became anti torah in israel v dying in europe, very complex, although their is always a chance of t'shova from being chiloni
There is no mo'us olai in this case as she lived with him and had a child. So where is the mo'us olai. Kach shomati (the principle, not specific) in the name of one of the two only erleche dayonim in NA, Rav Gestetner
ReplyDeleteRav Gestetner isnt ehrlich. His is no better than any other BD. He doesnt follow halachic procedures. Nobody accepts him.
DeleteJames
ReplyDelete" I am sick and tired of american botei din. they are all corrupt".
So why are you involved promoting epstein to receive a get if no erlich bais din said she should?
Because the marriage is over. He doesnt want to live with her any more than she wants to live with him. When a marriage ends, both parties should move on.
DeleteWithholding the GET is just plain cruel. It is not yashar beinei hashem. He doesnt want to reconcile. He wants to hold this over her until she caves to his demands. That is blackmail.
BTW, she did not go to arka'os. He went first.
James,
DeleteDo you support child abduction?
Aharon signed an agreement permitting her to keep the children while they tried reconciliation. He claims she made other promises (that were not in the agreement). She disagrees. He claims she signed in bad faith. She disagrees. All we have is a written agreement that states she is permitted to keep the children in her home.
DeleteThere was no violation of halacha. If there were, he should have gone to BD!
According to the summary posted by Daas Torah http://www.scribd.com/doc/91443476/Procedural-Summary2?secret_password=2mhv1brs92mew6wsustl
DeleteTamar abducted the child, which she first falsely denied in the court, but then later admitted in court.
Aharon later signed an agreement, which stated that he would let Tamar keep the child there temporarily because she made that a precondition to considering reconciliation.
The agreement says that Tamar agreed it would not be detrimental to Aharon with regard to custody or change jurisdiction. Tamar violated the agreement by arguing extensively that the child's time with her in PA under the agreement should be detrimental to Aharon and that the MD court didn't have jurisdiction because she had kept the child in PA.
What is the basis for your assertion that Aharon claims that she made other promises that were not in the agreement?
James,
DeleteThis is the agreement as reproduced on Daas Torah's post. Your characterization of the agreement, as explained in my previous post, is inaccurate. Are you claiming that Daas Torah's post in a forgery?
Separation for the Purposes of Fostering ReconciliationJeffrey Eric (a.k.a Aharon) Friedman agrees to allow [C] to live in Merion Station, Pennsylvania with Tamar Friedman for the two month period commencing April 16, 2008. Aharon will be allowed to visit with [C] only on Sundays (except for the two Sundays in the two month period that are Jewish holidays) in Merion Station or Silver Spring on an alternating basis for up to eight hours, at the times and places mutually agreed by the parties; and possibly one other time per week, which the parties will try to arrange. Tamar recognizes that Aharon has consented to these conditions because he would like to reconcile with Tamar and she has made this a condition of engaging in a reconciliation process. The parties have agreed that this consent shall not result in any detriment to Aharon with respect to any future determination relating to child custody or any other issue, that it shall not affect the jurisdiction of the courts in the state of the marital home and that it shall in no fashion confer jurisdiction to the courts of
Pennsylvania.”
@ Stan "Then how in the world can you argue as you have in the past that someone must receive a Get?"
ReplyDeleteI believe you are mistaken. In the recent discussions, I defended the honour of r' Shachter, but did not come out in support of ORA or take sides. I did however point out that R Kamenetsky is the Gadol and Posek of America whether you like him or not.
There is no choice of either dying in Europe or becoming chiloni if you leave. That is nonsense. The people who took that stance were themselves murderers of other Jews, and I don't care who they were , and how great their textbook knowledge was. several major extremist Gedolim was offered visas to British occupied Israel, as it was, and he refused, condemning himself and his students to nazi death camps.
I qualify my statement. There were apikorsim who were in the secular zionist movement, but there were equally apikorsim in europe duh - isn't that where reform began? Now there are 2 separate arguments against Zionism. 1) Satmar and the 3 oaths (sounds like a punk rock band). 2) the do not join with sinners.
1) Is total nonsense, and if you can find the 3 oaths in the shulchan aruch, let me know.
2) OK, so according to this stupid line, the Nazis were tzaddikim, the cossacks and communists were tzadikim and kedoshim, and the reform were shomrei torah. That is why it was a mitzvah to be killed at the hand of those Europeans, rather than G-d forbid go to the Land where Hashem watches over day and night. Never mind that Ramban had no problem going there.
Stan, also - regarding the CI and his famous meeting with BG, did the brisker Rav (or others in the Eidah) attack the CI for meeting with the leader of the Z word? I know that R' Aaron had a machloket with the Satmar rebbe, and part of it was due to him attacking the CI.
ReplyDeleteEddie - how do you defend the honor of someone if you are unaware if he has broken halocho or not? So do you agree if he has broken halochoh his honor should not be defended because he is not honorable, in fact then he is dishonorable?
ReplyDeleteFrankly it is not my job to educate you about halocho when you are arrogantly defending someone who has violated halocho but you are unaware of it. This is a joke.
R Samuel Kamenetsy is not a posek but a rosh yeshiva so once again you show your ignorance. Who appointed him a godol? Many would argue that he has violated halocho and behaved dishonorably. People aggrieved at corrupt pronouncements are not only allowed to protest but are commanded to do so "uviarto horo mikirbecho". Since when is Judaism a religion with an infallible pope? Even if it were, kamenetsy would not be a candidate as there are others ahead of him.
I am not getting into hashkofic arguments about Zionism on this forum. This is a forum about gittin so your attempts to change the subject matter to something you may or may not know more about than gittin which you admit you don't know about from a halachik standpoint are not going to succeed from my vantage point.
Frankly I refuse to debate with people who admit they don't know the halocho. It is the ultimate chutspah to get involved in an argument when you don't know your facts.
"James August 17, 2012 1:12 AM
ReplyDeleteRav Gestetner isnt ehrlich. His is no better than any other BD. He doesnt follow halachic procedures. Nobody accepts him."
I am surprised at the moderator for allowing pure defamation of character to be posted with no facts accompanying the posting.
Please James tell me an instance where your allegations are true? Give me a case where you believe rav gestetner violated halocho.
Youa admitted that all american botei din are corrupt. so doesn't the fact that they all have problems with rav gestetner tell you something? that he follows halocho and rebukes them for violating it.
Again James providse some evidence that rav gestetner violated halocho.
James is so ignorant that he is ignorant even about the basic facts - there is only one child involved. Don't even bother arguing with him he argues from a point of knowing nothing. Never mind the fact that Epstein broke agreements, thats fine.
ReplyDeleteAccording to James the halocho is cruel - Judaism does not permit no fault divorce. You are entitled not to like it. You are also entitled to join reform or conservative. but don't you dare reform torah judaism and still try and market it as such.
According to James, Hashem doesn't like it when a marriage is over and a get isn't produced. But I can only presume since we have never heard a complaint once from James about these matters, that Hashem with James likes it when women go to arko'oys and bankrupt their husbands while they get supported because they are agunos, prevent the children from relationships with their fathers by falsely alleging molestation or other lies, saddle the father with alimony that has no halachik basis and ditto for equitable distribution, excessive child support, all this Hashem likes because hashem takes orders from James.
I dont claim to know what Hashem "likes". I want to believe that hashem does not want fathers to marry off their pre-teen daughters.
DeleteBTW, there was some guy a thousand years ago who thought that hashem didnt want men to marry more than one woman, despite the fact that our forefathers married more than one woman. We call him Rabeinu Gershom.
And just for the record James I explained to you what bifurcation was twice and why you didn't find it in the BDA's handbook. Yet I still have not heard back from you about how you justify such violation of halocho by the BDA when you told us proudly that you are only interested in the truth.
ReplyDeleteI will not debate you further until you explain the bifurcation corruption and the corruption involved in the meier kin case.
Sran: "R Samuel Kamenetsy is not a posek but a rosh yeshiva so once again you show your ignorance. Who appointed him a godol? "
ReplyDeleteFunny, you claim Judaism isnt a papal style religion, yet you ask who appointed R Kamenetsky as a gadol? Is there a formal process for appointing gedolim, like the papal synod? Or is it about powerbroking, and vilification in the gutter press such as Yated?
Perhaps Rav Aharon considered him to be a Gadol, and thats why he was appointed to head the Yeshiva in Philadelphia?
And Sranley, what authority do you have to decide who is / not a Rosh Yeshiva or Posek? Have you written any teshuvos yourself? Do you give any shiurim? Are you approached by other rabbis for your opinion?
Top line Eddie: you admitted you are ignorant so ianyone who would not be as arrogant as you after such an admission would keep his mouth tightly shut.
ReplyDeletePlease Eddie. Call him up and ask him if he is a posek. Show me his piskei t'shuva. On which bais din has he regularly sat?
Many gedolim were wrong about potential heirs characters. He was appointed over 50 years ago. That does not make him erlich today. In any case not every rosh yeshiva is a godol. So your logic is pathetically faulty. Being a rosh yeshiva is not a necessary nor a sufficient condition for being a godol.
And Eddie, what authority what authority do you have to decide who is / not a Rosh Yeshiva or Posek? Have you written any teshuvos yourself? Do you give any shiurim? Are you approached by other rabbis for your opinion?
Frankly Eddie, give it up. You are not even a challenge to refute. You talk bobo meises.
"Stan is right. Ever since Rav elyashiv and the Haredim took control of the Rabanut, they have ignored halacha. It is now all politics."
ReplyDeleteFrom James, another self-confessed ignoramous of halocho.
"And Sranley, what authority do you have to decide who is / not a Rosh Yeshiva or Posek?"
ReplyDeleteObviously, he has a position of RY. However by the authority of the torah and Hashem himself I can decide he is not a Godol since it is written "Uviarto ho'ra mikirbechpo". If it is clear that someone is violating parts of the Torah repeatedly, I can say he is not a Godol. And my rabbonim say this as well. And I am under no obligation to publicize who they are.
We have whole sections of the Torah on a Zokein Mamrei and even on an Ir hanidachas.
Eddie, isn't it a chilul Hashem that 90,000 people at a siyum Hashas can't produce one single accepted legitimate bais din in the whole of thre 5 boroughs of NYC?
Zakein Mamre was the one man who bucked the concensus and insisted that he was right and everyone was wrong.
DeleteYou think all of Agudas Yisrael, all of YU, the Moetzet, the Rabbanut are all Zakein Mamres and Gestetner is right?
Seems to me like Zaken Mamre is a perfect definition for Gestetner.
Bottom line S'tan
ReplyDelete"And Eddie, what authority what authority do you have to decide who is / not a Rosh Yeshiva or Posek? Have you written any teshuvos yourself? Do you give any shiurim? Are you approached by other rabbis for your opinion?"
Very good, so you accept my question which rules you out of denigrating R'K. I dont claim to be an authority, hence i don't say that a Rav I disagree with is not great. And I may disagree with R'K on some issues.
Your own rabbonim are most likely Brisk chevra. You know the joke about Brisk? Now when the maggid shiur sneezes in the shiur, he says that's the point that the Brisker Rov used to sneeze.
The tragedy of Brisk is they no longer have any great minds, just a famous name and their own currency,since they dont accept the shekel. I remember you harping on about R' Shach when it suited you, but Brisk would mock him, as they did R Kotler. So quite apart from MO/zionist issues, your motley crew don't recognize anyoen else either.
BTW, the brisker Rov's statements were said in R Elyashiv's lifetime, and according to that crowd, even R' Elyashiv was a so called idolater.
Firstly I protest at the censorship of one of my remarks.Once again because my last name is not Eidensohn I am not free to answer as I like. If Rav Elyashiv who ruled on gittin is considered Brisk then of course you are right. If as usual you do not know what you are talking about then you are wrong. One minute I am rav shach, the next minute I am brisk. No I am simply shulchan oruch. I will no longer post against Eddie and James until either each or both answer the following serious questions of halocho:
ReplyDelete1) They explain the serious violation of bifurcation in general of the BDA.
2) Why BDA/YU don't stand up against arko'oys but support those in arko'oys
3) Who gave the BDA the right to use secular law even if both parties agree because claerly any man agreeing is going to get destroyed and they have not explained this to him.
4) how r herschel schachter can issue fake siruvim like on meier kin.
5) is r herschel shachter paid for being head of ora's "rabbinic" directorship? if yes a s i suspect, how much?
Until these Eddie and James chevra explain this, there is nothing to talk to them about.
3) Why they
Regarding fake siruvim, I have no information on allegations against R Shachter.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I have a good Hidussh , which I have seen nowhere else, on the fake reasons why haredim opposed Zionism.
The Torah says explicitly that the Land of Israel was given to us, not because we were perfectly frum, we were sinners, rather because of the corruption of the goyim and the promise made to our forefathers.
thus, the anti-zionists have perverted the words of the Torah (as is their habit) and claimed we can only inherit the land if we are perfect tzaddikim, since the Palestinians have the right to the land (terrorists included), and that the promise made to our forefathers is null and void.
This is just reform garbage, perversion of the Torah. Fools dress like Polish goyim and think they are frum, but quite the opposite.
daas torah. please explain why eddie is allowed to post off topic.
ReplyDeleteEddie just answer the detailed questions posed about halocho to you. because you have no details about the matter is not my problem.
look here biryon
here is the information on the fake siruv issued bu schachter. just answer this:
http://lonnakin.blogspot.com/
@ Stan " If Rav Elyashiv who ruled on gittin is considered Brisk then of course you are right."
ReplyDeleteThis shows how illiterate you are when you don't even understand what I wrote.
it was Brisk who said that anyone stepping foot in heichal Shlomo is an idolater. R Elyashiv spent many years working there as a dayan. hence Brisk have defamed a Gadol. you cannot have it both ways. Please don't cite r Elyashiv if you do not consider him to be a kosher Rav.
Stan,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of this teshuva?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1888&st=&pgnum=164
If you approve, we have nothing left to discuss.
If you wish to find child abuse sites to discuss this on, find someone else to do it with. All I know is that all the YU big shots covered up for Boruch Lanner. That is all I know. Now answer the questions posed for you and Eddie.
ReplyDeleteI can say that if I was a holocast victim I would be obsessively scared of authority as well but I am not getting involved in that parshah. I am not saying anything except rationalizing these views based on being in the camps.
Rav Elyashiv holds the same as the Mishne Halochos on virtually everything regarding gittin, mo'us olai claims etc. That is what is relevant here, nothing else.
Rav Elyashiv does not hold like the Mishne Hlaochos on this issue. But your attempts at avoiding the issue befoire you are getting sickening already.
Just answer the questions. You can't because no answer to the serious violations of halocho by YU,BDA,ORA exist. That is why you are trying to change topics.
I do not believe ORA violates halacha. What halacha have they violated? They are implementing RT.
ReplyDeleteYou assume ORA was involved in the alleged abduction and ask me to justify that. I wont. ORA doesnt have a BD. They dont issue seruvim. They dont abduct people. They dont bifurcate anything. They work off of seruvim issued by many batei din. In this case, the BDA isnt even involved. You are changing the topic. I dont care about Meir Kin. I am commenting on Friedman/Epstein. The BDA has nothing to do with this case.
YU definitely isnt involved.
If you want to discuss ORA, I can defend what they do (even if I dont agree with it). Cite the halacha you think they are violating, and I will show you why they are wrong.
The reason that teshuva is relevant is because Gestetner believes some of that logic. He believes that women have no neemanus and their testimony is worthless without two witnesses. A man has a chezkas kashrus. Therefore, any time a man comes to his BD, he will side with the man because police reports and court findings are worthless - goyim have no neemanus - and a woman's sole testimony is worthless. That is why no real BD takes him seriously.
"I do not believe ORA violates halacha. What halacha have they violated? They are implementing RT."
ReplyDeleteReally. There has been much discussion around RT and even where it applies, i.e there have been no violations of halocho by the woman like not listening to the baltimore Bais Din etc, the conclusion was that RT only allows passive behavior. Not being oyver on malbin p'nei chaveiro be'rabim. So there is a clear violation of halocho already by ORA in the Epstein case.
So in order to obfuscate yet agin, James claims ORA doesn't bifurcate. Well James are you illiterate? I asked you several questions about the BDA, so why are you obfuscating to ORA.
However for the record ORA does bifurcate. You claimed to be interested in the Emes, the truth James. Well the Meier Kin is a classic case of where the BDA and then ORA do bifurcate and you refuse to explain why this in NOT a violation of halocho and claim you do not care about this. Well this shows your claims that you are interested in Emes are hot air.
If you look at the heading of this particular blog it is about Rabbanut corruption. So there is no requirement for the discussion to only be about Epstein and not Kin.
If a woman had no ne'emonus james, there would be no children born to Rav gestetner or rav menashe klein zt"l. So clearly you do not know what you are talking about.
"Therefore, any time a man comes to his BD, he will side with the man because police reports and court findings are worthless - goyim have no neemanus - and a woman's sole testimony is worthless." Please refer us to a ruling from Rav gestetner that proves your point. otherwise keep quiet with your motzi sheym ra.
The shulchan oruch has a section on the cases where a woman can demand a get and there are specific examples where the woman can make various claims. So clearly she has ne'emonus and you are accusing rav gestetner of breaking shulchan oruch. Please supply us with evidence of your claims. Not general hearsay and motzi sheym ra, james specifc cases.
Unlike the BDA, Rav Gestetner actually publishes the explanation for his rulings. You have made serious allegations against Rav Gestetner James. back them up with some evidence. Please show us
cases James.
"That is why no real BD takes him seriously." James please let us know what is a real BD. Is it Machon le'horo for example? Do you hold they are kosher v'yoshor James? how about the BDA James?
When you are finished answering these comments, you could start by answering the questions on the BDA I posed to you.
As for your comments YU is not invloved, they are a joke. R Schachter, Willig have positions there. Stern is a graduate there. Pelcovittz also and the meeting against Aharon Friedman was held there. Demonstrators are from there. Broyde graduated from there.
I believe that R G Schwartz learned there, and so did r Weissman. r yona reiss was a big shot in the BDA before returning to YU. So please stop with the lies already.
How can ORA bifurcate anything if they dont have a BD? They only work off seruvim issued by other Batei Din. Moreover, this case doesnt even involve the BDA!
DeleteWe have not established that protesting is a violation of RT. R' Michael Broyde already made mince-meat out of RDE's mean spirited attack. He explained very clearly, with sources, why ORA is not a violation of RT.
The newspapers have been publishing names of seruvim for decades. ORA decided to use the new medium of the Internet. All they do is tell the truth that Aharon refuses to give a GET. Everyone agrees to that. You think that is justified, and I dont.
Apologies I got mixed up in this case of meir Kin classic bifurcation it was R Schachter and 2 others r union and r bess. doesn't change the issur of supporting a woman in arko'oyus and issuing a fake siruv. And for ORA for relying on a fake siruv.
ReplyDeleteJames if you claim that r broyde creamed r eidensohn you are a revisionist historian. r broyde misquoted or underquoted and was shown to be totally ignorant, misleading and totally wrong.
However the BDA does use bifurcation and it was them who informed us of the concept of bifurcation which has zero basis in halocho.
ORA doesn't just have a list - it goes and protests so stop misrepresenting.
Now explain the bifurcation of r schachter, the BDA and ORA for inventing extensions to the harchokas of r tam as well as for relying on a fake siruv.
I dont know anything about Meir Kin. I dont have the time to research that case and I dont feel like calling the BDA.
DeleteI am discussing Friedman. Broyde's article was superb and RDE's attempt to limit the ROY/Kulitz ruling to that particular case was laughable. Schachter had nothing to do with that seruv. RSK is an accepted Gadol and if he states that a GET has to be given, even if he wrong, that is certainly enough for ORA to act on.
There is no difference between a few individuals attempting to get Aharon to give a GET and hundreds. The only thing ORA has innovated is the use of modern technology to mobilize the masses.
It is a scary new world for recalcitrant husbands. Thank God for the Internet!
Until RH/YK are over, I will be scaling back on my blogging. I simply do not have the time. So you get to have the last word. KvCHT.
I will disect an extreme and yet another corrupt posting from an ORA/YU defender.
ReplyDelete1. "I dont know anything about Meir Kin. I dont have the time to research that case and I dont feel like calling the BDA."
I thought you stood for the emes James. Very serious allegations of complete violation of halocho are being levelled here against people you have steadfastly defended and yet you suddenly don't have time. Shame on you. You have time to defend violations of halocho but you don't have time to investigate the emes. But your crowd wanted a video of friedman's assault because of emes as if friedman knew he was going to assaulted and agreed to be assaulted in front of video cameras.
2. "I am discussing Friedman."
You repsonded to my comments and my comments included Kin whom you refuse to discuss for obvious reasons - r schachter's behavior is indefensible and in line with repeated serious violations of halocho by him and his ORA biryonim.
3 "Broyde's article was superb and RDE's attempt to limit the ROY/Kulitz ruling to that particular case was laughable."
Pure revisionist history. Clearly you have problems with simple logic. Broyde misquoted and underquoted and was destroyrd by DT's brother.
4. "Schachter had nothing to do with that seruv." He signed on to the siruv against Friedman so stop blatantly lying.
5. "RSK is an accepted Gadol and if he states that a GET has to be given, even if he wrong, that is certainly enough for ORA to act on."
You can accept RSK as a godol if you like, its a free country. He is not an expert in gittin, he has serious negius here and a professional would recuse himself. Even if he is wrong a get should be given, i have nothing further to add. You are clearly not driven by halocho but by your feminist delusions. I repeat you are not driven by halocho but by your feminist delusions.
6. "There is no difference between a few individuals attempting to get Aharon to give a GET and hundreds." There is a difference al pi halocho - its called "ha'machti es ho'rabim", and the reward for this "its me'akev the perpetrators from doing teshuva.
Furthermore you lied when you claimed YU was not involved. The huge demonstration was held at YU/ Stern under its auspices.
7. "The only thing ORA has innovated is the use of modern technology to mobilize the masses. " The only thing ORA has innovated is reformadox feminist ideology in the 21st century falsely masquerading and legitimate orthodox jewry and paying corrupt violators of halocho like jeremy stern huge salaries.
8."It is a scary new world for recalcitrant husbands. Thank God for the Internet!" On the contrary this is the first time the other side of the story and the truth get promulgated.
9. "Until RH/YK are over, I will be scaling back on my blogging. I simply do not have the time. So you get to have the last word. KvCHT. " frankly you need to reflect on ORAs prikas ol malchus shomayim and ol mitzvos. At the risk of sounding ungracious, keep your good wishes to yourself while you support the persecution of innocent men from the corrupt ORA and court system.