Washington Jewish Week by Suzanne Pollak Aharon Friedman, the target of much criticism and ostracism for not giving his former wife a get, a Jewish religious divorce, was allegedly beaten up last Sunday as he returned their daughter to her mother's Pennsylvania home, according to several sources.
A spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department said the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there, but we are unable to release it."
According to two people who telephoned Washington Jewish Week as well as a posting on the blog Daas Torah, Friedman went to the home of Cheryl Epstein, where his former wife, Tamar, and their child currently live. As he was leaving the property, Friedman was assaulted by two or three people, one of whom was wearing a mask.
Friedman, who lives in Silver Spring, is said to have been hit on the head and knocked to the ground, causing his glasses to be smashed.
Following the incident, Friedman went to the police department and to the hospital where he underwent a CT scan.
Rabbi David Eidensohn of Monsey, N.Y., who has written about Epstein's quest for a get, called WJW after learning of the incident. He stressed that a forced get is invalid. He called on those involved in the incident, in which he included anyone who egged people on to violence, to refrain.
He specifically pointed to Rabbi Hershel Schachter, one of the leading rabbis of the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary (RIETS) at Yeshiva University in New York. Rabbi Schachter has come out strongly against men who refuse to give a get in letters, videos and audio tapes posted on the Internet.[...]
According to two people who telephoned Washington Jewish Week as well as a posting on the blog Daas Torah, Friedman went to the home of Cheryl Epstein, where his former wife, Tamar, and their child currently live. As he was leaving the property, Friedman was assaulted by two or three people, one of whom was wearing a mask.
Friedman, who lives in Silver Spring, is said to have been hit on the head and knocked to the ground, causing his glasses to be smashed.
Following the incident, Friedman went to the police department and to the hospital where he underwent a CT scan.
Rabbi David Eidensohn of Monsey, N.Y., who has written about Epstein's quest for a get, called WJW after learning of the incident. He stressed that a forced get is invalid. He called on those involved in the incident, in which he included anyone who egged people on to violence, to refrain.
He specifically pointed to Rabbi Hershel Schachter, one of the leading rabbis of the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary (RIETS) at Yeshiva University in New York. Rabbi Schachter has come out strongly against men who refuse to give a get in letters, videos and audio tapes posted on the Internet.[...]
Okay. Here is the confirmation.
ReplyDeleteMike Tzadok and company: time for you to eat crow, admit our wrongness and apologize to everyone for casting false aspersions.
Tzodok - Your incompetence and inability to verify any piece of information has now been verified to everybody. How about an apology to RDE.
ReplyDeleteThe tacits of ORA should be called into question. Their rallies and harassment as well as the preaching of violence by their rabinic leader has led to actual violence. Can someone please explain why ORA has tax exempt status - they should be on the FBI's list of domestic terrorist organizations.
Jeremy Stern said "he was told the Epsteins were not involved" Jeremy who was it that told you that? Why don't you go back to your source and find out who was involved if not the Epstein family and their cronies.Please do tell us Jeremy !!
Mr. Stern's comment to the press on this incident is comical if it weren't so sad.
DeleteThe article says, "Rabbi David Eidensohn of Monsey, N.Y., who has written about Epstein's quest for a get, called WJW after learning of the incident. He stressed that a forced get is invalid."
ReplyDeleteIn the audio shiur, Rav Schachter says this is not a case of a forced get, meaning, even if you force him in this case it would still be valid.
I don't get why you are defending Mr. Ahron Friedman and accusing Rav Schachter and Rav Kamenetsy of wrongdoing. It seems to me that like it or not, Mr. Friedman has to give his wife a get. And maybe you don't like that R' Schachter and Kaminetsky disagree with your opinion.
LAzer,
Deletehere is a term its called dina dmalchusa dina!
as for you I suggest you read about the people you mentioned and then see if aharon is really supposed to give a get.
First of all, his wife left him and took the kid with her. Sounds to me like he has to give her a get. He wants her back?
DeleteSecond of all, ask any lawyer, law professor, politician, defendant... American law is not black and white, there are grey areas and room for interpretation and basically its just not black and white.
Read about the people I mentioned? what about them do I need to know?
What about messira in this case?
Lazer,
Delete1) a wife that leaves and kidnaps their child and has denied her ex to have a relationship while running a media campaign against him when by her own testimony says that he was great husband does not mean she is entitled to a get. Like I said read the earlier stories and see for yourself.
2) its called incitment. if you think its not true try calling out to a bunch of students to go and beat the president up with a bat.. let us know what happens
3) its important because if you knew all the facts of the case you will realize that this is not as ora/epsteins have portrayed it to the media! In addition it will prove halachically he is not mechuyov to give her a get. I am not saying he shouldnt eventually, but under these circumstances the get would be a giant joke. Anyone that will marry her will have children who are considered mamazeirim according to many poskim.
as for your ridiculous comment about Mesirra?? Someone who calls for unsanctioned violence and possible murder its not mesirra to protect yourself? When someone calls for you to be beaten up or possibly murdered I would like to see if you will be crying mesirra!
Gary,
Deletepoint 1 in my opinion is irrelevant.
Point 2 I doubt anyone will actually bring such a case against one of these Rosh Yeshivas even if what they did violates the letter of the law. Rosh Yeshivas are not so powerless.
Point 3 I haven't seen any presentation of the halacha other than Rav Schachter's if someone would like to show us an argument against R' Schachter's I'm all ears.
As for the mesira question, you're right, not a good question.
1) I disagree with you, these facts are indeed very important. An Agunah is a terrible situation and someone who really is causing someone to be an agunah, chazal does not deem this acceptable nor should society. However as of late there has been a tremendous abuse of the term. This in turn is ruining it for real agunos out there. Unfortunately in this case there are many problems with her being labeled an agunah. A woman can not abuse halachah and then expect people to fall for her crying agunah. I am sorry but walking out of a beis din then running to another who tells you to go back to the first one, instead then goes to the hebrew national rabbi and issues a seruv after one hazmanah and listed as a signator on the hazzmanah is a rabbi who recieved 30 years of tovas haanh, this smells like corruption to the highest degree. She has made a mockery of the beis din system. Her actions clearly define her as a moredes.
Delete2) Dina dimalchusa dina.
Its a pretty bad example to be setting for your followers. I wonder if the parents of that boy from new square are happy that their kid will be spending a good couple of his prime years sitting in a cell, all because he listened to the incitement he heard from his leaders. If you are a parent and your kid gets stuck in a situation because he was misled, I truly wonder if you would feel the same way. If R' hershel shachter thinks that he should be beaten with a bat, then let him go out and do it himself!
3) No need to, its a davar sheyadua, no other mainstream rabbi would call out for such a thing.
Gary,
Delete1) Thank you for responding to me, I'm starting to see that not everything is black and white in this case. I don't know the whole story, I'm just trying to learn something.
2) you're right about the new square kid, I wouldn't my kids getting caught up with mishigos like that.
3) In the end I feel that even if she is a complete meshugenah, she left him 4 years ago, what does he gain by not giving the get?
Another thought, don't tell me this tax lawyer didn't have a prenuptial agreement???
DeleteLike I said in the original post. A internet news source that so far hasn't gotten it's story straight on this case, quotes an anonymous "spokesperson" and mainly cites this blog and the comments there... Not impressed.
ReplyDeleteSee I can name names from the Lower Merion Police dept that I have spoken with.
Officer Walsh
Sgt Stillwagon.
They both deny that either an assault or an attempted abduction took place. Could this still be investigating something? Yes, they could very well be investigating a false report filed by Aharon Friedman, I don't know. But they deny than either an assault or an attempted abduction too place.
Mike:
DeleteWhy is it so difficult to get it through your thick skull that Suzanne Pollak of the Washington Jewish Week spoke to a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department who said that the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there."
Tzadok, You are pathetic. Nobody here is impressed with you lies! That newspaper has been around longer then you have!
DeleteVery nice that you called up the police department and spoke to an officer and you know his name. An independent newspaper confirmed that your claims of nothing being on record is false. So were your claims that the police have to release it! I wouldn't be surprised if you googled those officers names and didnt bother to even call!
As for you now to accuse aharon of filing a false report, just shows that you are a paid epstein troll. first attack the truth if that fails then attack the person! The only thing false here is your credibility!
Probably because the chief detective of the Lower Merion Police as well as their PR Officer both denied to me over the phone that either an assault or an attempted abduction took place.
DeleteYup, sure.... tzadok whatever you say. while you were on the line did you also speak to the police chief and mayor or better yet the Governor?
DeleteNebech!
OK, time to play contrarian.
ReplyDelete"According to two people who telephoned Washington Jewish Week as well as a posting on the blog Daas Torah, Friedman went to the home of Cheryl Epstein, where his former wife, Tamar, and their child currently live. As he was leaving the property, Friedman was assaulted by two or three people, one of whom was wearing a mask."
So 2 people phoned the WJW and told them of the alleged incident. So far, that is all the evidence available.
The police are looking into the incident. They haven't confirmed what actually took place.
Now this may be completely true or completely false. And who knows , if the matter actually happened, who was behind it?
Why do you jump to conclusions that it was R' Shachter's people, or ORA people? Maybe it was just a mugging attempt. Or maybe from the other side. Or perhaps, enemies of ORA paid some thugs to do it, in order to make r' Shachter look bad.
I am not denying that an event occurred, but if it did occur, you have to investigate who the perpetrators were.
eddie wake up and smell the coffee.
DeleteA spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department said the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there, but we are unable to release it." If nothing happened there wouldnt be a report and if there was a report and it was false then they would have released it already.
you can not deny that rhs has called for violence. there is audio and video to prove it. are you going to say that was made up as well?
These are reasons of great concern and it should be investigated. When someone calls out for violence then the natural thing is to look at the person who called for it! No reason for other people to make RHS look bad because he already did it to himself!
Suzanne Pollak of the Washington Jewish Week confirmed with a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department that the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there."
DeleteFiling a false police report is a criminal offense. There was an assault. Now the police are looking for the culprits and their affiliation with Tamar.
We must play the contrarian in every case when someone is accused. We don't declare who is guilty until we know. But we can blame H Schachter for teaching his followers that beating and maybe killing a husband who refuses a GET is proper. We can also blame the community for spending millions of dollars on various projects but almost nothing for saving marriages and making peaceful divorces.
DeleteThe problem is that many men use the get as leverage either to get away from paying alimony and child support or even to extort the wife (or her family) for (sometimes huge) sums of money.
Delete"Shalom Bayit" is often used as an euphemism to keep a wife prisoner in an unhappy marriage, often even in cases where the husband is violent against her.
As long as Batey din do not do anything against get-extortion, I think it is very important to help women who want to divorce, and to show them support.
"Paying alimony" is against Halacha and no wife is halachicly entitled to alimony. If she gets a goyishe court to give her aliomony, it is stealing from the husband and he may defend himself from her theft.
DeletePaying child support is against halacha too, since he is not allowed to have any relationship with her after the get (so if he pays her a sum every month, it is against halacha).
DeleteFurthermore, visiting his children while they are with her is against halacha too, for the reason cited above: he is allowed no relationship of any kind with her after the get, even if it is to stay in touch with his children. (At least, this is what kitzur shulchan aruch states).
Halacha also grants children above the age of nursing to the custody of the father.
DeleteSuzanne Pollak of the Washington Jewish Week confirmed with a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department that the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there"
ReplyDeleteFiling a false police report is a criminal offense. An assault clearly took place on Tamar's home against Ahron. Now the cops are investigating who the assailants are, and how they are affiliated with Tamar and Mr. Stern from ORA.
The spokesperson said they are investigating the matter. They haven't yet determined what event has taken place.
ReplyDeleteI will not speculate on this particular case, since I do not wish to pre-judge.
Let us take a similar case somewhere in Atlanta. Perhaps the husband would stage a mugging, and then use the matter as leverage in their legal dispute. There are many possibilities.
You guys are joking right? The Washington Jewish Week article is basically just regurgitating what was already posted on this blog. How does that prove anything. (other then sloppy journalism)
ReplyDeleteLook, I'm the last person in the world to be considered an Epstein supporter. I think what Tamar did was WRONG, and would think Aharon to be a fool to give her a get until an amicable custody agreement can be reached. BUT.... False reports, or embelished reports should NOT be tolerated.
Nechemia you better be careful what you write you could lose your kollel stipend!
DeleteFalse reports? the police confirmed it.
If you are going to comment I suggest you remove your association with your name to the philli kollel. Its funny the philli kollel was supported by the epsteins and her father served on the board of directors.
hmmmmm
Suzanne Pollak of the Washington Jewish Week confirmed with a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department that the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there."
DeleteGary, I stand corrected... Apparently there NOW has been confirmation with the Police that this did indeed happen.
DeleteTom Walsh the public Information Officer for the Township of Lower
ReplyDeleteMerion in PA just told me the following: On July 29 at 6 PM a male was
assaulted on Linden Lane in Lower Merion Township also known as Bala
Cynwyd a Welsh name. The victim dropped off a family member and then was
confronted by three individuals who pushed and struck him. Glasses were
broken during encounter. Victim was able to flee. The actors were three
white males and one was wearing a mask.
End quote.
Victim's name was not released. Mr. Walsh told me that he never told
anybody anything about the FBI not being involved. He didn't say if it
was but he did not tell anyone it was not. He was patient and allowed me
to write down his words above and read them back to him.
Eddie expects us to believe after there were statements condoning violence by Rabbi Schachter which without a huge leap of faith could easily be interperated as a threat to violence that someone who is opposed to Ora decided to attack Aharon.
ReplyDeleteTalk about conspiracy theories. I guess if someone was to assault Rabbi Schachter one is then to conclude that the assault was perpetrated by a lover of r Schachter in order to discredit those who oppose r schachter. I am not at all calling for violence against him before anyone says I am. On the contrary this is the way of Ora and those who hate Hashem and I am against violence from either side and categorically oppose.
That is a conspiracy theory indeed. I don't expect anyone to believe my conspiracy theory. It is a possibility. Like, for example, someone starts a fire at their own warehouse, to claim on the insurance. Same principle. Of course, I made clear this is about a couple in Atlanta, since I don't know what is happening with the epsteins.
DeleteJust curious if the Epsteins did the right thing and called 911.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great point, itchiemayer. And it should be easily checkable whether the Epstein's called 911.
DeleteIf they didn't, it is an indication of complicity.
Keeping ones wife an agunah is one of the most evil things in a category of its own that one can do. For such an abusive terrible act it is no suprise that people would strike at the evil ABUSER .
ReplyDeleteIt is not an automatic rule against it because of the separation of church and state.
This is not even taking into account his chesbin to shamayim.
if bais din would declare her an agunah u might be correct. but so far no bais din has done that - she seems to have declared herself the agunah queen of the world - that does not make her an agunah
Deletea moredes is a moredes is a moredes -her fate tashev ad shetalbin - sit until she turns grey - halacha is very clear about that
if u wish to create a new religion and new halacha - its a free country do what u want - but don't call yourself jewish
Ahron has no obligation to divorce her/give her a Get. A husband doesn't have to Get his wife just because she wants one.
DeleteBy justifying a violent attack against Friedman with the child nearby, avf continues to provide insight as to why Epstein still does not have a get.
DeleteWhere is this link from rabbi shachter where he says its ok for violence?
ReplyDeleteIn his shiur called options for Agunahs on Yu torah listen from 10-14 minutes. He does state what Rav Dovid Eidonsohn Shlitta has claimed and says that in 99% of the cases today where marriages are broken and two are no longer living together of course we can be kofin oso bshotin (use force with sticks!!!) Listen for yourself minute 13 to be exact: He brings down 3 categories and says almost all cases today are in the category of kofin oso bshottim. (He doesn't tell people to go do it but he says the cases fall into the category where physical force is permitted)
DeleteAvf - If B"D hasn't declared her an Agunah then she is not one. Here is a story I heard very recently, even if not true the point is a good one. R' Moshe Feinstein, zt"l was mesader kiddushin at a wedding. As the time for chuppah was rapidly approaching the Mother came to Reb Moshe and was crying hysterically. She told Reb Moshe she did a terrible thing and committed adultery which led to the birth of her son who was about to marry. Reb Moshe declared that the Mother had no ne'emanus (trustworthiness) and therefore, could not be believed. The wedding proceeded as planned. Even if the Mother was relating what actually did happen, it didn't matter. Her son did not have the halachic status of a mamzer. Likewise, Tamar might have a Husband that is not providing her with a get, but if she is not an agunah then I guess he isn't in violation of halacha. It really comes down to that one fact.
ReplyDeleteYou have a faulty understanding of how halacha works.
DeleteBatei Din do not create mamzerim and Agunot.
Reb Moshe has no power to declare anything. That a woman is not believed to make her own fetus (or child) a mamzer is a simple halacha in shulchan Aruch.
Nonetheless, A Beth Din consisting of, among others, Rabbis Belsky and Kamenetsky, in the seruv refer to her as a Agunah.
Except that numerous gedolim and a bais din have said that he must give the get .
DeleteNow that they have been totally separated with no chance of ever getting back together for over 3 1/2 years , she is an AGUNAH.
Reply to Rabbi Michael Tzadok's comment of August 4, 2012 8:45 PM - "I am saying this (the beating of Aharon Friedman) is made up."
ReplyDeleteHopefully by now every intelligent person reading this blog will understand that Michael Tzadok is a master of propaganda, deception and lies which only serve the cause of the ORA feminist gangsters and their allies and supporters.
ORA and its rabbinic stooges such as Tzadok never allow Torah, HALACHA, or EMES to thwart their agenda of GET MEOSO, ARCHAOS, and feminist divorce on demand. It will certainly be fascinating to see how Tzadok tries to wiggle out of his latest web of lies.
Rabbi Dovid Eidensohn, do you drop the Rav from Rav Schachter on purpose because you have a halachic disagreement with him and you fail to ring him to discuss it in the manner of a convivial milchamto shel torah?
ReplyDeleteI find it exceedingly difficult to take you seriously because of your lack of Kavod HaTorah.
pitputim,
DeleteI called HS many times and got no answer. He won't talk to me, nor will many rabbis elsewhere. HS is not an Orthodox rabbi because he invents halacha without any sources and in defiance of the sources in a way contradicted by normative Jewish sources. Even Rabbi Broyde who agrees somewhat with HS never said that hitting husbands with baseball bats and maybe killing them is the halacha. HS is a very dangerous influence on our community for teaching the mitsvah of murder. I have informed people in YU about his statements and they are very concerned. It is not the first time he has suggested murder. He also advised someone to assasinate the Primoe Minister of Israel I think Olmart over some issue. He should not be in YU and he should not be called rabbi. In secular law he is a rabbi as are Reform and Conservative rabbis, but they are not to be consulted for halacha, especially the fanatics.
I think it was PM Barak, not Olmert.
DeleteI believe we had this discussion previously. the claim "HS is not an Orthodox rabbi because he invents halacha without any sources and in defiance of the sources in a way contradicted by normative Jewish sources" appears to me to be problematic.
DeleteThe gemara shiur he gives, makes reference to SHas, Shulchan Aruch. Unless you say he is making false reference?
Also, Rambam's Hilchot Rotzeach discusses the issue of Rodef in great detail, and under what circumstances Halacha permits us to "assassinate" somebody. Now, R' Dovid, woudl you also claim that Rambam was "a very dangerous influence on our community for teaching the mitsvah of murder."? Or do you justify also the aveira of standing idly by your brother's blood?
Now it is interesting that you protege Stan is happy to accuse R' Ovadia of having oslo blood on his hands. In halachic terms (not in US or Israeli secular law) a rodef can and should be killed. Rabin was a rodef, he gave weapons to arafat's henchmen and this lead to muyrder of hundreds of israeli Jews. Olmert was a Rodef, as he planned to pull out of the west bank, which would allow a takeover by hamas/ plo - and leader to massacres and pogroms against 400,000 Jews living there. Of course, R' Daniel has no problem with Jews being killed en masse, since he cannot make political or halachic capital out of it.
Also, look at the curses that have befallen all of these rodfim. rabin we can discuss abotu who actually killed him, but:
Sharon - pulled out of Gaza, next thing he is in a coma.
Olmert - wanted to export this terror to Yehuda and Shomron, but he was stopped, and charged with fraud, made to leave power.
Livni, also finished as a politician.
My next question: Was Rav Shternbuch consulted in respect of approaching the Washington Post?
ReplyDeleteDon't understand your question. I didn't approach the Washington Post. I didn't approach the Washington Jewish Week either or any other newspaper. If reporters want to read my blog, they don't need to ask Rav Sternbuch's permission
DeleteThis blog used to be a forum for interesting ideas, but has now become a pathetic meeting place for angry frum men.
ReplyDeleteBLAH BLAH BLAH
It might help if you paid attention to why people are angry. It is nice to have a polite intellectual conversation about abstract ideas - but these are real people with real pain who are trapped by abuse of halacha as well as conflicting psychological needs.
DeleteWhy don't you offer some constructive solutions to these issues instead of voicing contempt for people who are suffering or a trying to help relieve the suffering of others?
The solutions needs to balance the halacha with yashrus and the social and psychological realities and be something that the majority of rabbinic authorities are willing to back - and that isn't against secular law. Tall order but something desparately needed.
I would be happy to enter into a reasonable discussion, but you have allowed these comments to be taken over and dominated by those who are not interested in actual dialogue. No point is left without a nasty reply.
Delete"instead of voicing contempt for people who are suffering"
Deletestrange, the blog owner does not object with a single word to all those "angry men" voicing their contempt for people who are suffering, i.e. women who are held captive by husbands who refuse them a get. All the comments as to "she is a moredes" "she can sit and wait for the rest of her life", "she does not deserve a get" "Tamar Epstein has borderline syndrome" have been published (on a blog that regularly censors) without a single moderating comment.
All of a sudden, the term "angry men" (which is not that insulting and quite accurate, in view of the contents of their comments) should be "voicing contempt for people who are suffering". There seems to be a very serious bias here.
Response to Ora's comment: "the blog owner does not object to a single word by all those "angry men" voicing their contempt for...women who are held captive by husbands....All of a sudden, when someone calls them "angry men" RDE rushes to their defense.
DeleteSo true. Every time Helas voices a complaint and sense of injustice she is strongly rebuked (I would actually say, trashed) by RDE. But he makes not a peep about the snarly comments in the other direction (ie by the reactive males). It is clear that although RDE might have an awareness about childhood abuse he is as unconscious as they come about the discontent and injustices perpetrated in the name of Torah against those on the other side of the mechitza. My wife has sensitized me to these things and I, painfully, see it everywhere around me.
Sorry DT you are extremely naive if you think that you can balance halochah with secular law, especially NY secular law.
ReplyDeleteA simple example will suffice. Recently a judge severely threatened someone in NY that the Get deposited was invalid because it was "conditional. The Bais Din refused to release the Get until the woman who was the Plaintiff left arko'oys. Is that separation of church and state?
If that is true, the judge overstepped constitutional boundaries. A secular court Judge in the U.S. is prohibited from making a determination, or even considering, whether a Get from Beis Din is valid or conditional. It violates the separation of Church and State principle.
DeleteSlandering Rav Schachter in the newspaper is despicable. Nobody else(except some anonymous blog comments) considers his shiur incitement.
ReplyDeleteThere is zero evidence that anyone connected to him had anything to do with this alleged assault. (There is no evidence that there was an assault.)
Only a severely deranged individual can think that Rav Schachter believes we should kill husbands who dont give gittin.
If he wants to be taken seriously, R' Dovid Eidensohn needs to get some rabbinic support. He needs to get universally accepted Gedolim to support him. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a jihad.
One more request: Why not post photos of a beaten up Aharon?
Further to this ongoing controversy, R' Tzadok makes claims contradicting R' David's statement above. R'TZ claims on his blog that his wife has contacted Officer Walsh, who denies the statements made. I do not take sides, I am not supporting either position. An objective viewer must weight claims of both sides, and try to be impartial.
ReplyDeletehttp://mekubal.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/no-daat-less-torah-part-ii/
Michael tzadok has a history of inventing facts which is a very euphemistic way of putting it. These include the following at the top of my mind for now:
ReplyDelete1) He himself contacted Walsh - he admitted now it was his wife.
2) Weiss was the Plaintiff in NJ Court when documents show that it was his wife who was the Plaintiff
3) Shas voted against Oslo 1 - it abstained and got black Volvos for it.
4) UTJ voted in favor of Oslo 1 - it voted against.
5)Rav Morgenstern came out against rav Gestetner and if you google him you will find such documents - a total fabrication as even James admitted.
6) The world sefardi population.
That you even quote this guy for facts shows just how removed all you guys are from emes. Or is it called clutching infested straws?
James admitted nothing. I asked for the link because I can not google in Hebrew.
DeleteThere is no greater evidence in favor of R' Tzadok's claims than the email he posted on his site.
The gemora says that nobody says a lie that is easily revealed as a lie. If someone wants to contact Tom Walsh at police headequarters they can, as I did. i can't understand the mentality of someone who makes a public statement easily refutable.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Dovid,
ReplyDeleteWill you ring Rav Schachter? Surely you have enough learning to engage him in Milchamto Shel Torah?
I simply cannot understand why you and your brother do not do so. Is it the cost of the phone call? We can organise to re-imburse you. If you need the number, email me.
I can assure you that you will discover he is one of the most erlech and learned Rabonim you will have had the pleasure to talk to.
Go for it?
He already said RHS refuses to talk to him or take his phone calls -- which he tried multiple times.
DeleteMike Tzadok:
Delete(I posted this on your blog, Mike, but you deleted it.)
I'm having some difficulty with your credibility.
On Aug. 4th you posted on your blog:
"I called the Lower Merion Police Department(610.649.1000) and spoke with Public Relations Officer Walsh, from whom I got an official statement, “We have no reports of any assualt, attempted assualt or attempted abduction on the specified day, nor in relation to a Mr. Aharon Friedman. The FBI is not currently conduction an investigation in that direction in Lower Merion.”"
(Bolding emphasis mine.)
Five days later you now post on your blog:
"When my wife asked last night if any report had been filed he responded by saying that there was a report that there was an assault on the 200 block of Linden Lane. The report claims that three suspects dressed in black at least one of whom had a masked face approached an alleged victim, pushed him, and broke his glasses, at which point he fled the scene."
So now you are claiming that Officer Walsh lied to you on your wife's first contact with him? You clearly QUOTED him (with quotation marks - indicating a direct quote) that he told you that "We have no reports of any assualt". Five days later you are claiming he confirmed there in fact WAS a reported assault.
Frankly, I am more apt to believe the integrity of the Lower Meron Police Department than your claims of what they told you -- essentially that the police lied to you. You already lowered your credibility by first unambiguously claiming YOU spoke to Officer Walsh and then days later conceding that was a lie and it was your wife who spoke to him.
Furthermore, the Washington Jewish Week reported they spoke to "a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department", who advised the media outlet that "the matter was under investigation. There is a report out there, but we are unable to release it."
First of all, that is accurate as you now concede, unlike your claims in your initial post on this subject. So what's your beef with the WJW? They reported that a police report of an assault was filed. You admit as much now. Secondly, they said they spoke to a spokeswoman. Clearly Officer Thomas Walsh is not a woman. The paper spoke to someone else in the department. So your disingenuous claim that they lied since Officer Walsh said he didn't speak to them, is meaningless.
I don't know....
DeleteMike Tzadok claiming to have talked to Officer Walsh when it really was his wife that talked to Officer Walsh isn't that big of a deal.
A journalist claiming to have talked to officer Walsh when she really just read it on this blog is another story.
No Loss of credibility as far as Mike Tzadok is concerned. MAJOR loss of credibility as far as the Washington Jewish Week in concerned.
In either case, this whole situation makes kal yisroel look stupid to the world. Aharon, Tamar.. there is no right/wrong in this case. They are both acting like rich spoiled children.
Numerous people, including rabbonim, have reached out to Rabbi Shachter concerning this case and he has refused to speak to them.
DeleteNechemia - the newspaper reporter didn't copy what was on this blog. She relied on the police as well as two people who called into the newspaper. what these people and the blog reported agreed with what the police reported - so what is your problem?
Delete===================
A spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department said the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there, but we are unable to release it."
According to two people who telephoned Washington Jewish Week as well as a posting on the blog Daas Torah, Friedman went to the home of Cheryl Epstein, where his former wife, Tamar, and their child currently live. As he was leaving the property, Friedman was assaulted by two or three people, one of whom was wearing a mask.
Ho hum. When I call Rav Schachter his Rebetzin answers and passes the phone. No questions are asked.
DeleteMaybe he has heard how the Eidinsohns have allowed besmirching on this blog.
In addition to Rav Schachter, please start blaming the Rambam for Aharon's alleged assault.
ReplyDeleteDid the Rambam write a letter effectively saying that Friedman's case is the same as a former slave who continues to live with a maidservant and should be beaten and that any person could appoint themselves to be the messenger of the Beis Din to administer the beating?
DeleteReply to Shtarke yid re: "angry frum men":
ReplyDeleteYes, there are angry frum men writing on this blog.
Herschel Schachter's wicked and corrupt ORA organization, along with their corrupt rabbinic henchmen in the Yeshiva/Chareidi world, are the unseen hand behind many of the explosive Jewish divorce battles.
We are angry that so-called Orthodox rabbis and Orthodox organizations, such as the YU ORA organization, Herschel Schachter, Jeremy Stern, and their allies and supporters are condoning, justifying, or openly supporting:
- Alien feminist ideologies
- Feminist divorce on demand
- Destruction of Jewish families
- GET MEOSO
- M'SIRAH and ARCHAOS
- Women who cruelly deprive Jewish children of their fathers
- Harassment, persecution, hatred, defamation, public shaming and other severe halachic violations and injustices against Jewish men
- ORA "rabbinic advisor" Herschel Schachter's apparent advocacy of the use of violence against certain Jewish men in divorce situations.
Every decent, Torah observant Jewish person should by all means be outraged and opposed to this grotesque situation. We must summarily expell ORA and their Reform feminist RESHAYIM from all Torah communities before they succeed in destroying the Jewish family.
Anyone who thinks that the Yeshiva/Chareidi world are the "henchmen" of RHS and YU is no longer living in the real world.
DeleteEmes LeYaakov -
DeleteQED.
I hear you, Emes L"Y
DeleteMike Tzadok:
ReplyDelete(I posted this on your blog, Mike, but you deleted it.)
I'm having some difficulty with your credibility.
On Aug. 4th you posted:
"I called the Lower Merion Police Department(610.649.1000) and spoke with Public Relations Officer Walsh, from whom I got an official statement, “We have no reports of any assualt, attempted assualt or attempted abduction on the specified day, nor in relation to a Mr. Aharon Friedman. The FBI is not currently conduction an investigation in that direction in Lower Merion.”"
(Bolding emphasis mine.)
Five days later you now post:
"When my wife asked last night if any report had been filed he responded by saying that there was a report that there was an assault on the 200 block of Linden Lane. The report claims that three suspects dressed in black at least one of whom had a masked face approached an alleged victim, pushed him, and broke his glasses, at which point he fled the scene."
So now you are claiming that Officer Walsh lied to you on your wife's first contact with him? You clearly QUOTED him (with quotation marks - indicating a direct quote) that he told you that "We have no reports of any assualt". Five days later you are claiming he confirmed there in fact WAS a reported assault.
Frankly, I am more apt to believe the integrity of the Lower Meron Police Department than your claims of what they told you -- essentially that the police lied to you. You already lowered your credibility by first unambiguously claiming YOU spoke to Officer Walsh and then days later conceding that was a lie and it was your wife who spoke to him.
Furthermore, the Washington Jewish Week reported they spoke to "a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department", who advised the media outlet that "the matter was under investigation. There is a report out there, but we are unable to release it."
First of all, that is accurate as you now concede, unlike your claims in your initial post on this subject. So what's your beef with the WJW? They reported that a police report of an assault was filed. You admit as much now. Secondly, they said they spoke to a spokeswoman. Clearly Officer Thomas Walsh is not a woman. The paper spoke to someone else in the department. So your disingenuous claim that they lied since Officer Walsh said he didn't speak to them, is meaningless.
@emes le yaakov
ReplyDeleteWhat you write here sounds like a desperate battle to maintain male privilege at the expense of women. It does not sound like a honest, frum jew who wants the best for all of klal Israel, so that nobody feels slighted and everyone is content with his lot. It sounds like a man clinging to the injustices he could get away with in the past.
I was quite shocked several times in this ongoing discussion about Gittin. For example, when commentators implied that spousal rape was acceptable according to jewish law (other commentators denied this, I still do not know which one is true). Or when commentators implied that a woman who refuses intercourse with her husband was automatically classified as a "mordedet" and lost any right to monetary compensation in the case of divorce. Or when commentators implied that a "good jewish wife" has to have intercourse with her husband, regardless whether she wants or not. Or when the blog owner implied that in a case where a husband cheated on his wife, the rabbonim would try to make "shalom bayis" (i.e. agree to the husband withholding a get). Or when commentators implied that physical violence (husband on wife) could not be considered ground for divorce the fist time round and that the wife should give him "one more chance" and make "shalom Bayis". Or when commentator said that a husband not providing for his family over 20 years was not grounds for divorce.
Tzadok has told so many untruths, and repeatedly been caught out. Someone else would be ashamed and stop blogging but this character is delusional and his only counter is "sock puppets".
ReplyDeleteRather ironic that many of the anonymous bloggers tell the truth while one who uses his real name is so full of distortion.
Just for the record tzadok, those who blog anonymously do so out of fear from the feminist movement who have shown there is nothing too low for them to stoop to including causing loss of jobs, loss of children, false molestation allegations etc in their vicious attempts to cover up the truth.
Shame on you tzadok. Whoever purportedly gave youy semicha should rescind it. last time i looked it said in the Torah "midvar sheker tirchak".
Reply to ORA re: "maintain male privilege":
ReplyDeleteYour shallow attempt at playing the feminist victim card, instead of addressing the numerous, severe injustices being committed against decent Jewish men, demonstrates the intellectual dishonesty of the ORA - fake "agunot" activists such as yourself.
Nowhere in any of my comments did I advocate for any injustices to be committed against women. Yes, a woman who refuses intercourse with her husband is a moredet, just as a man who refuses intercourse with his wife is a mored. Where did any commentator imply that "spousal rape was acceptable according to jewish law" as you claim?
Feminism is the cause of the rampant divorce injustices occurring, not Torah Judaism. The Torah is just in not allowing feminist forced Get on demand, in not allowing women or men to to deprive children of the other parent, and not allowing m'sirah in archaos.
What is refusing a get but telling a wife: "you can have intercourse with me, but with no-one else".
DeleteWhat is the benefit of refusing a get, to a wife who underwent civil divorce and does not want to come back, except revenge and getting even?
How does refusing a get enhance the children's situation?
Does the Epstein child benefit from the situation that is created by refusing a get?
I don't think you are right in assuming that the halacha does not want children to be separated from one parent.
ReplyDeleteActually, divorce according to halacha was very strict in limiting or even prohibiting contact between former spouses. So I think that keeping contact to both parents after divorce or shared custody is also a "modern secular invention" and has nothing to do with torah or halacha.
http://mekubal.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/attack-of-the-sockpuppets/
ReplyDeleteStan, Emes, Emes L'Yaakov, etc.
I always suspected you were all one person.
If, as many on here claim, an assault and attempted kidnapping did take place, wouldn't that warrant a serious police investigation? Kidnapping is a most serious crime. Is thre any updates on where the investigation is going?
ReplyDeleteWhat his friends aren't telling you here it that there was no kidnapping when he pulled out his gun the attack ended.
DeleteThese are two people fighting over $$$MONEY$$$ why did they have to drag the Rabbi's into it?
This whole thing is silly its all about the money, nothing more or less. He has to give her a get she is an agunah and she won a pretty good judgement against him and he's just a sore looser.
How would anyone, other than law enforcement, know the status of the investigation? Do not expect law enforcement to disclose details about an ongoing investigation. Claims by some, such as Rabbi Tzadok, that the fact that law enforcement won't discuss a matter means that the matter is not being investigated are completely baseless.
DeleteJames, are you thick?
ReplyDeleteRelying on tzadok for information is as relying on the syrian information ministry for details on human rights abuses by assad. Surely you are the only one who doesn't think that tzadok has been totally discredited with all his lies.
http://www.michael-tzadok.blogspot.com
The real sockpuppet is Michael Tzadok:
ReplyDeleteSee posts below by Nemo - exactly the same claims as the Bishop himself. Clearly Memo is Michael Tzedoki.
From Daas Torah:
NemoAugust 1, 2012 8:http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/08/aharon-friedman-assaulted-in-wifes.html#comment-form48 AM
FBI can't be involved. They have no jurisdiction. They would only get involved if he were actually abducted, and enough time had passed for the abductors to have carried them across state lines.
Your stories are entertaining, but please do what any good fiction writer does and check your facts, that way your fiction will at least have the appearance of truth and a bit of believability.
NemoAugust 1, 2012 12:31 PM
Here is the list of actual crimes that the FBI will investigate:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/what_we_investigate
Attempted abduction of adults is not listed. Meaning they won't investigate.
SJAugust 1, 2012 3:38 PM
This incident can actually fall under:
* gangs
* human trafficking
* organized crime
* domestic terrorism
NemoAugust 1, 2012 4:46 PM
Not the way the FBI describes any of those things.
SJAugust 1, 2012 5:48 PM
It was definitely a gang
it was definitely kidnapping to force someone to do something
it was most definitely organized
it was most definitely political making it a form of terrorism.
close enough if you ask me.
nemo is obviously a troll.
NemoAugust 1, 2012 8:39 AM
I thought Emes sent that? Are you admitting to sock puppetry?
NemoAugust 1, 2012 4:42 PM
There is no police report. There is nothing in the paper. There is no FBI file. Just because some anonymous blogger and some sock puppets say this happened doesn't make it a reality.
Unless you can provide actual documentary evidence then there is no reason to believe that it happened.
NOW FROM THE BISHOP'S OWN BLOG: http://mekubal.wordpress.com/page/2/
http://mekubal.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/is-this-daat-torah/
So goes the tale, of course by an anonymous guest poster. The tale was then backed up by Daniel Eidensohn’s brother, Dovid Eidensohn who assured us all that this was so severe that even the FBI was getting involved. We were told that this was a conspiracy involving the Tamar Epstein’s family, Rabbi Herschel Schachter and quite possibly a few Philadelphia Rabbis.
This story piqued my interest. It would have been horrible, if true. The problem is, IT’S ALL A LIE!!! Before I get too wound up on this, let me start the chain of events that unraveled this for me. The first red flag was the insistance that the FBI was investigating this. Believe or not the FBI does not jump to investigate every crime that happens across the US. Considering the FBI only employees 35,000 people to police the entire US(NYPD have 34,500 uniformed officers for just one city, as a comparison) they don’t have the resources to track down every assault and attempted abduction. Further it falls outside of their stated purview and jurisdiction. Someone had stated that since he was a Federal Government employee that would put it inside their jurisdiction. However, that is not the case. If he has a high enough G rating(on a scale of 1-20, the the President being 20) he may rate a Secret Service investigation, however, he has to fall into the category of national leader(i.e. a high G rating, over 10, and some assistants are only G-5′s, Monica Lewinksy for instance was a G-6).
Second, it didn’t make any of the local Lower Merion(where the crime is supposed to have happened) news. The Mainline Media News(primary online news outlet for that area) has nothing about it. Likewise the Save Ardmore Coalition, which also reports on events that they view to be a threat to the Mainline way of life has nothing about it(though they do discuss a person being verbally accosted by a dumpster diver).
Michael Tzadok couldn't know that. This blog is owned by Rabbi Eidensohn. So he wouldn't have access to the IP list of commenters on this blog.
ReplyDeleteHe couldn't correlate anyone posting on his blog to whoever is posting on this blog.
Sounds like he is grasping for straws. He makes no sense and there is no logic to what Tzadok is posting.
If you read carefully you will see that he was talking about the comments sent to his blog.
DeleteThere is no evidence to the contrary.
Unless, and until, the Moderator decides to disclose the IP addresses of those commentators to this blog, I have to assume it is true.
James:
DeleteMr. Tzadok has no way of knowing which commenters on his blog are the same people commenting on this Daas Torah blog. So Mr. Tzadok has no way of knowing whether or if, with any degree of certainty, are sock puppets on the Daas Torah blog.
Also, RDE said this Daas Torah blog, which is hosted on Google's Blogger service, does not identify to the blog owner the IP address of commenters.
Can the owner of this blog please confirm or deny that these commenters are one in the same? That will help demonstrate whether there are indeed as many angry people out there as was previously suggested.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I suggest that if they are indeed the same person, the owner of this blog should consider blocking comments from that IP address.
blogger doesn't have tools for identifying IP for comments
ReplyDeleteIn any case, tzadok may have a second computer, use a neighbor's computer etc. This does not prove that he is not a sockpuppet. The tone and contents of the 2 posts are very similar for comfort.
ReplyDeleteSockpuppets are anonymous. Rabbi Michael Tzadok is not anonymous. You are!
Deleteas are you as is Nemo. Not sure what was to complicated for even you to understand.
ReplyDeleteR Eidehnsohn-
ReplyDeleteThis combination of your blog and R Tzadok's has led to one of strangest episodes in J-blog history. It would be fascintaing if it weren't so tragic.
Stan- R Tzadok doesn't need a sock puppet. He already has a REAL name.
Another lie by Michael Tzadok.
ReplyDelete"Amazingly every single online ID that I had been arguing with over on the Daat Torah blog use the exact same IP. To whit the names are(Yis Stein, Stan, Emes, Emes L’Yaakov, Dovid and Facts."
http://mekubal.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/attack-of-the-sockpuppets/
What baloney and Tzadok knows it! This is an utter lie.
Michael Tzadok has repeatedly attempted to deny that an assault or attempted abduction had occurred.
ReplyDeleteYet did anyone notice that according to the WJW article linked to at the start of this DT article, Jeremy Stern, the ORA "operations officer" himself, admitted that he had heard about an alleged assault, and Stern made NO attempt to deny that it had occurred!!!
"When contacted last week, Rabbi Jeremy Stern, executive director of ORA, said he had heard about the alleged assault, noting that he was told the Epsteins were not involved. Possibly it was an intruder or someone trespassing, he said".
(Calling all Sockpuppets: If you're really me in disguise, you may disregard this comment.)
It doesnt pay Stern to deny it happened. He need only say that even if it did happen, he wasnt involved.
DeleteI have already shown that this event didnt happen. If it did, R' Dovid Eidenson would have put up pictures.
Until I see the pictures, there is no proof that it ever happened.
shaul shapira - if tzeadok has a real name then why did he post under the guise of nemo?
ReplyDeletethen again tzadok does many things no one will ever understand
"if tzeadok has a real name"????
DeleteIf? He DOES have a real name. He also has a picture of himself on his site. He even has a YouTube video of his son's bris in which he appears.
Nemo is not Tzadok!
James that is your opinion not a fact.
ReplyDeleteIt is a FACT that Michael Tzadok is a real person. It is not debatable. I have spoken to him!
DeleteI have no evidence that Nemo is no Tzadok. In that respect, you are correct. It is my opinion. But the burden of proof lies with you to prove they are the same person and I am not convinced by your "evidence".
Aharon's alleged assault is also not a FACT. It is your opinion. Until I see proof in the form of pictures it remains your opinion.
why do you want pictures. there was a recent claim of assault with pictures which turned out to be false.
DeleteA more critical point is that there is no denial by the Epstein family
I want pictures because there is serious doubt as to whether anything occurred.
DeleteThere is no evidence that anything happened.
You can not make an allegation and then say that the lack of a denial by the Epstein family is proof if its occurence.
Further, your brother seemed to imply that Rav Schachter and his students are complicit in this assault.
If you are going to make such wild accusations, at least provide evidence that there was an assault.
Pictures arent conclusive evidence, but they are enough for me. I cant think of any other way to prove he was actually assaulted.
It is important to note in the four years of this bitter divorce - when every effort is made to find negative things to say about one's spouse - I have not heard Tamar Epstein or anyone else asserting that Aharon Friedman is dishonest or is deceptive. He is claiming that he was assaulted and made a report to the police - which is a serious problem for him it is a lie. It also would present a golden opportunity for Tamar Epstein to destroy his credibility by saying that she was there and the event did not happen. She hasn't done this - why not?
DeleteProbably because the right thing to do is not comment. You dont comment on every allegation.
DeleteJeremy Stern told WJW that he was told the Epsteins were not involved. Who would have told him that if not the Epsteins?
How do we know Friedman didnt concoct this episode to gain sympathy?
When RSK posted a letter supporting ORA you said it wasnt enough. You wanted specific support by name for what they were doing.
Now, the fact that the Epsteins know about this "assault" and dont speak up means they are involved and admit that it happened?
I think it is safe to say that the entire NY Haredi world (including RSK and Belsky and all the other Roshei Yeshiva) knows about ORA. According to your logic, the fact that none of them have specifically spoken out against their protests is evidence that the rabbinic establishment supports (at least tacitly) ORA's methods.
Law enforcement authorities often do not disclose details of ongoing investigations. Do not expect details as to what evidence law enforcement authorities have or do not have in this case to become public in the near future.
DeleteThe claims by some, such as Rabbi Tzadok, that certain law enforcement agencies are not investigating particular crimes, as proved by the fact that agencies will not publicly assert that they are investigating such crimes, are beyond absurd.
James,
DeleteRead the letter Rabbi Schachter wrote in this case condemning Aharon, How can you read that letter as anything other than incitement to violence?
Furthermore if it is not tzadok, it is just as bad. he copies no palgarizes other people's ideas and then pastes it as his own. Ethics?
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting. I posted a respectful comment on Mr. Tzadok's blog. While it disagreed with him and I brought strong proof that he was wrong, it was entirely made respectfully.
ReplyDeleteYet he deleted it. This occurred twice. (And, no, I did not post under any other pseudonym.)
I believe he now realizes he was wrong and is too shamefaced to humbly admit his errors.
Dovid,
DeleteI am afraid to say that I read your comment and did not find it respectful. I dont think you brought proof of anything.
Besides, if he believed you were the same Dovid who was filling up his Spam folder with disrespectful emails, he has every right to delete your posts.
Perhaps you should have distinguished yourself from the Dovid who was sending him all those emails.
James,
DeleteThat is quite an interesting comment you just made. You wrote: "I read your comment and did not find it respectful." Well, James, Mr. Tzadok's blog is moderated. Meaning, James, that no comments appear until and unless Mr. Tzadok first approves it.
This leads to the conclusion, James, that you must be a sockpuppet of Mr. Tzadok. Otherwise, you would have no idea what I wrote!
Oh, "James", one other thing. You say you saw what I wrote and you don't think it was respectful enough to Mr. Tzadok, and he deletes comments that he feels aren't respectful enough to him. So what did I write, "James"?
That is incorrect. Comments appear right away (unless you are blocked)
DeleteYour comment appeared and was deleted. I know this because when I went back to reply to it, it was gone.
I dont know why he deleted it. I said that if you had been sending him emails he found inappropriate, he has every right to delete your comments even if that particular post happened to be respectful.
That is another untruth, "James" a/k/a Mike Tzadok. Anyone can easily verify that ALL comments to Mike's blog are pre-moderated by Mike prior to it showing up in the comment section. Anyone can right now go to Mike Tzadok's blog and easily verify this fact, by simply posting a comment, and they will immediately get a message "Your comment is awaiting moderation".
DeleteSo, "James", another lie caught red-handed. How did you know what my comment was, unless you are Mike Tzadok? And, pray tell, why are you still refusing to say what my comment said, as you were asked here, if as you claim you know what comment said?
"Daas TorahAugust 14, 2012 7:29 PM
ReplyDeletewhy do you want pictures."
Anything to obfuscate from the truth. That is what Getora stands for.
Obfuscate the truth? I am trying to find out what happened!
DeleteI am asking for evidence. All I have seen is a newspaper article quoting anonymous sources, this blog, and RDE. That is not independent verification.
Show me pictures and I will admit, on this blog, that you are right and Aharon was assaulted.
Why did the reporter call the Epstein family for a comment but not Aharon himself? Wouldn't it make sense to call him and speak to him?
James,
DeleteRead the blog post, the comments by Rabbi Eidensohn, and the Washington Jewish Week article. None of those sources claim that there were visible injuries.
They claim he was hit over the head. That would produce a visible injury.
DeleteWhen you say he was assaulted by three men it kinda sounds like he was hurt.
James,
DeleteAre you a neurologist? The claim that someone cannot be hit on the head without producing a visible injury is absurd.
Rabbi Tzadok,
ReplyDeletePart of your claim as to why this whole thing must be made up is your claim on your blog that any get given as a result of a beating in the case would not be valid. Thus, why would anyone attempt to obtain one through a beating? Has Rabbi Kamenetsky or any of the other rabbonim inciting against Aharon ever said that a get obtained as a result of a beating in the case would be invalid? Have you asked any of them?
Have you asked Rabbi Brisman of the Philadelphia Beis Din (whom you have claimed to be in contact with) whether he would recognize such a get?
James, if you are such a lover of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, why don't you examine the Meir Kin fake siruv case and explain to us why he dererved a siruv on him and all the other harrasment he was subjected to?
ReplyDeleteBecause I dont care about the Meir Kin case. I dont know Meir Kin. I once knew Aharon. That is why I find this case interesting.
DeleteJames, if you love the truth so much perhaps you can expalin to us where the "bifurcation" principle of the BDA comes from.
ReplyDeleteWhat this means is that instead of applying universal halochoh of where a woman is in arko'oys with no heter and refuses to go to bais din for monetary and custody matters, she then is allowed to appear in bais din because according to the BDA spokesman they bifurcate the get issue and all other issues.
Please provide us not just with a source of some shitas yochid who over the last 1,000 years agrees to this absurdity but where this was applied in a country outside the US and is brought down in gedolei haposkim that this is acceptable. I looked in r' broyde's book on fake agunahs and did not find any source for this - proabaly because none exists.
Lover of the truth let's see if you love the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
I cant explain or defend something I dont understand. If you point me to an article outlining the process, I will investigate the matter and respond. My Google search only returned postings on this blog by you and another blog by "Yeshurun". I would like to know under what conditions they bifurcate trials?
DeleteI looked through their Rules and Procedures and couldnt find anything about bifurcation.
The idea that someone not having a visible head injury proves that person could not have been hit hard on the head is without any medical basis,
ReplyDelete"Head injuries can be serious and require urgent medical attention. A hard blow to the head, from a fall, knock or assault, can injure the brain, even when there are no visible signs of trauma to the scalp or face."
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Head_injuries_first_aid
"stanAugust 14, 2012 4:45 PM
ReplyDeleteFurthermore if it is not tzadok, it is just as bad. he copies no palgarizes other people's ideas and then pastes it as his own. Ethics?"
Stan/Nemo- Enough with this game. R Tzadok may have come to the same conclusions as the the ones you posted under "Nemo"!
Perhaps R Tzadok is actually R Hershel Shachter Shlita in disguise? I think I also once saw him dressed as R Michael Broyde...
Why are Rabbi Tzakok and James and some of the others who are encouraging Tamar's child abduction and Beis Din abuse so desperate to deny that the Tisha Bav assault occurred?
ReplyDeleteI am not desperate to deny anything. I just want proof.
DeletePuzzled,
DeleteI am not encouraging anything. Aharon signed an agreement permitting the child to live with Tamar while they were separated.
He then went to arkaos. He never went to BD.
The claim that Aharon never went to BD is false.
DeleteAharon brought the case to the Baltimore BD, before which the parties signed a binding arbitration agreement. In order to bring the case to BD, Aharon agreed to cancel a pendete lite trial in Maryland civil court at which it was likely (based on the remarks of the judge, as well as Tamar's own lawyer, at a prior emergency motion) that the child would have been returned to Maryland.
Tamar violated the orders of the Baltimore BD regarding dismissing the civil case. Tamar successfully argued in civil court that the child should remain in PA because substantial time had elapsed since Tamar had abducted the child. Tamar specifically argued that the child's time in PA should be determinative because Aharon had agreed to cancel the pendete lite trial 8 months earlier to bring the case to BD.
I dont understand. Binding Arbitration decisions are final. If Tamar violated the order, Aharon could take that order to court and get it enforced.
DeleteBinding arbitration is not enforceable on issues of child custody.
DeletePuzzled, answer is obvious they purport to hold the high moral feminist ground of trashing halocho. This exposes them to who they really are.
ReplyDeleteshaul shapira given the breaches in ethics round the truth by the said individual he has no chezkas kashrus. So whom are you kidding.
ReplyDeleteChezkas Kashrus?
DeleteYou are starting to sound like Gestetner.
James, you have got to be joking claiming you do not understand what I posted. the word "bifurcate" means divide in 2 branches.
ReplyDeleteSo the BDA divides the woman's behavior in 2, the arko'oys part which it summarily ignores and focuses exclusively on her demands for a Get. Problem is that this is in complete violation of halocho.
That is why you will not find it in any manual of the BDA. Its their dirty laundry. Do you expect them to include this in their manual? It will destroy any credibility they still have.
They claim that since the woman can't receive the Get from arko'oys, she is entitled to go to Bais Din.
Please ask them for a source for this. No one other than the BDA has heard of this.
The term "bifurcation" was told to someone I know by R weissman i think.
I know what bifurcation means. What I dont know is in what instances, if any, they would bifurcate the claims. Is it a standard policy in all divorces? What criteria would have to be met before a claim is bifurcated.
DeleteI ask because I can envision certain cases in which bifurcation is acceptable al pi din.
Stop envisioning and just answer the serious issues James. Envisioning and visions are left to prophets. Just call up r' weissman at the BDA and ask him how he explains his bifurcation according to halocho as he had no answer when this was posed to him previously. Ask him r' chaim oyzer agreed with this and similarly, chazon ish, brosker rov, rav elyashiv, michas yitzchov, rav yisroel fisher and even reb moshe?
ReplyDeleteStop the games already please.
James, the instances where bifurcation would be relevant are where it is necessary to sweep under the carpet the issur arko'oys. Where the woman was tzias dina and was not in arko'oys, no bifurcation would be necessary.
ReplyDeleteYou do not need to make it complicated. It is plain and simply a serious vilation of halocho. Please explain it already. I will not let go until either
a) I get kicked off this blog OR
b) You answer it OR
c)You admit that ORA/YU/BDA are the corrupt trinity of MO Judasim.
Stan,
DeleteI can no longer have a conversation with you because you dont wish to talk halacha. You want to talk politics and I dont want to talk politics. I am not going to discuss the "trinity of MO Judaism".
Rav Gestetner is not an accepted BD. We have letters from Rabbi Amar and the Rabbanut saying that they will not accept him or anyone that sits with him. Your response? The Brikser Rav possuled the Rabbanut. That is the sort of non-answer I can not debate.
James
ReplyDeleteYou are being entirely dishonest. I have asked you to explain the halocho not politics and instead you accuse me of not wishing to talk halocho. I have laid out specific questions on halocho for you to explain how the BDA can violate and that is politics. Just answer the halachik issues.
It was you who claimed rav gestetner violated halocho and when I asked you for a proof you quote me a politician's letter - nothing halachik. Just answer me on the halachik issues. i really am not interested in your opinion of Rav Gestetner good or bad, just answer the halkachik questions posed and stop the dishonesty. if you want a halachik discourse then answer the halachik questions posed and stop lying.
I repeat for both you and Eddie who love to obfuscate: I have posed several halachik challenges to you, answer them. They are not political questions, they are halachik questions.
If you have specific halachik questions I will answer them, not your baloney about no one accepts rav gestetner.
Bottom line: Answer the questions already, like a broken record. Just answer the questions.
I have spoken to senior rabbonim in Israel and elswhere about the Rabbonut and it seems that there are very serious problems with how they do things, and if anyone complains the Rabbonut refuses to recognize their procedures. This forces others to be quiet. It deserves a serious study but a lot of people are afraid. The Rabbonut has government power and can jail people or fine them. Again, I am not in Israel and don't know anything personally but I have spoken to top of the line rabbonim about it. They are very concerned. Rabbi Gestetner is one of those brave enough to write against their deeds and so they replied as they did, to denigrate him. He lives in America, so he has nothing to fear. But the rabbis there are afraid.
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