Fredric Goldfein told jurors in the federal conspiracy and kidnapping trial of Rabbi Mendel Epstein that in his efforts to get a Maryland man to agree to a divorce, Epstein instructed him to wire $60,000 to two of the congregations he led.
A few days after the money was transferred to Epstein's congregations, the husband, Aharon Friedman, was attacked on July 29, 2012, by three men at the home of his former in-laws in Pennsylvania in an attempt to force him to issue the divorce.
Goldfein, who is a rabbi, said he was led to believe the money was to go to the husband, Friedman, as part of his agreement to grant his wife a religious divorce so that she would eventually be permitted to remarry in the Orthodox Jewish community.
Entering their sixth week of trial, federal prosecutors on Monday showed bank records indicating four payments totaling $60,000 to Epstein's congregations in March and April of 2012, Congregation Kol Reuven and Congregation Beth Jacob, and Goldfein said Friedman did not receive the $60,000.
Update: March 20 2015 Tamar Epstein's lawyer Fredric Goldfein, is being asked to testify in the Mendel Epstein Torture for Get Trial. The U.S. Attorney is assuming he will take the 5th regarding whether Tamar had hired someone to beat her husband - something which Goldfein has preveiously denied.
Concerned • a year ago
http://washingtonjewishweek.co...
Tamar Epstein's lawyer continues to mislead (to put it charitably) in new Washington Jewish Week article: Epstein’s attorney, Fredric Goldfein, gave an emphatic “no” when asked if Epstein had hired anyone to beat Friedman, adding he wasn’t even sure Friedman’s allegations “amounted to anything.”
Tamar Epstein's lawyer continues to mislead (to put it charitably) in new Washington Jewish Week article: Epstein’s attorney, Fredric Goldfein, gave an emphatic “no” when asked if Epstein had hired anyone to beat Friedman, adding he wasn’t even sure Friedman’s allegations “amounted to anything.”
updated
Guest Post August 5, 2012: the police number is 1207290113 it is missing on the police blotter available on the internet as are many other numbers as it is an ongoing investigation
Don't cast aspersions on the accuracy of the information that is posted by Rabbi Eidensohn. Aharon was attacked last Sunday (Tisha B'Av) on the Epstein's property as he returned his loving child to the Epstein's house. Those calling for Rabbi Eidensohn to apologize for supposedly posting a fabricated incident, themselves owe an apology to Aharon, and Rabbi Eidensohn - not to mention the child, who was nearby when the attack occurred.
As a result of the attack there was an emergency change in the custody arrangements.According to the Maryland court docket system, which is available on the Internet, the docket for the case has an entry dated 8//3/12 stating:
HEARING (SALANT, J.) ON PLAINTIFF'S
VERIFIED EMERGENCY MOTION TO MODIFY LOCATION OF TRANSITIONS AND
CUSTODY. - GRANTED. ORDER SIGNED.
Docket Date:
| 08/03/2012 Docket Number: 179 |
| Docket Description: | MOTION, CHANGE OF CUSTODY (RESIDENTIAL) |
| Docket Type: | Motion Filed By: Plaintiff Status: Granted |
| Reference Docket(s): | Ruling: 181 |
| Docket Text: | PLAINTIFF'S VERIFIED EMERGENCY MOTION TO MODIFY LOCATION OF TRANSITIONS AND CUSTODY, STATEMENT OF GROUNDS AND AUTHORITIES, CERTIFICATION UNDER MD. RULES 1-204 (B) AND 1-351, AND ATTACHMENT, FILED. |
| Docket Date: | 08/03/2012 Docket Number: 180 |
| Docket Description: | SUMMONS ISSUED |
| Docket Type: | Docket Filed By: Court |
| Docket Text: | SUMMONS ISSUED FOR PERSONAL SERVICE AND HANDED TO ATTORNEY. |
| Docket Date: | 08/03/2012 Docket Number: 181 |
| Docket Description: | HEARING |
| Docket Type: | Ruling Filed By: Court Status: Granted |
| Ruling Judge: | SALANT, STEVEN G |
| Reference Docket(s): | Motion: 179 |
| Docket Text: | HEARING (SALANT, J.) ON PLAINTIFF'S VERIFIED EMERGENCY MOTION TO MODIFY LOCATION OF TRANSITIONS AND CUSTODY. (#179) - GRANTED. ORDER SIGNED. PLAINTIFF APPEARED WITH COUNSEL MS. MCGRATH. MS. ENGLE APPEARED BY PHONE ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT, WHO WAS NOT PRESENT. |
| Audio Media: | 15-080312 Start: 14:40:51 Stop: 15:13:41 |
==================================================
Guest Post: On Tisha B’av, a vicious attempted abduction of Aharon Friedman took place in on the property of Mrs. Cheryl Epstein, where Tamar Epstein and Aharon and Tamar's child currently reside. The attempted abduction took place as Aharon was leaving the property having returned his child to Mrs. Cheryl Epstein’s residence, pursuant to a court order. This vicious assault appears to be a continuation of the Epsteins’ ongoing efforts to prevent the child from having a relationship with her loving and dedicated father, which began over four years ago when Tamar Epstein abducted the child from Silver Spring to her mother’s home in Pennsylvania
The Epsteins’ campaign, coordinated with ORA, has included many threats against Aharon and ongoing harassment of him, his family, and his employer. In fact, various family members who have helped transport the child to ensure that Aharon can see her at all per a court order have been harassed at the very location where the assault took place, the property of Mrs. Cheryl Epstein. The child spent this past weekend of Shabbos Chazon with Aharon. By the order of the court, acting at Tamar’s request, father and child were restricted to the Philadelphia area. They spent Shabbos in a motel room, and Sunday, Tisha B’av, was spent 'walking the streets' as the Epsteins have, for over four years, made Aharon a pariah in the Philadelphia area and threatened anyone who would even think of providing a place to stay for Aharon and his child. The need for revenge has blinded Tamar and her family to the suffering she is inflicting on her child
Per the court order, Aharon brought the child to Mrs. Cheryl Epstein‘s home at 6 PM on Tisha B’av. Contrary to her usual lack of reception, when Aharon arrived, Mrs. Cheryl Epstein inquired about the child, speaking to Aharon for the first time in years. In fact, in an unprecedented instruction, she told the child to go back outside and give her father a kiss, calling into question her motivation, given what was to happen moments later on her own driveway. With the child nearby, two or three masked thugs hit Aharon over the head and knocked him to the ground. Did the Epstein family plan this attack on Aharon when he would be in a weakened state from fasting and be handicapped by wearing Tisha B‘av shoes? The thugs smashed his glasses and beat him. Miraculously,with Hashem’s chesed, Aharon escaped. The police were summoned and verified the incident with an eyewitness.
Mrs. Epstein resides in an upscale neighborhood with a low crime rate. Because Aharon’s car was intact and the car keys were on the ground, the motive cannot be construed as an attempted robbery. Aharon was sent to a local hospital for tests and treatment.
There have been numerous tragic incidents of Jewish fathers being abducted and beaten, but this time the thugs did not succeed in abducting Aharon. Are we to surmise that there is more to come?
====================================
Additional guest post comments:
Rabbi Hershel Schachter's incitement to violence against Aharon
The violent attack against Aharon Friedman was at least partially the result of the incitement to violence against Aharon by various rabbis and organizations. In this letter (see link below) that was publicized by ORA, Rabbi Hershel Schachter calls for Aharon to be physically beaten. It is not yet known whether Rabbi Schachter was involved in hiring the thugs that attacked and attempted to kidnap Aharon on Tisha B'av.
One of the sources Rabbi Schachter cites in the letter against Aharon (Rabbi Akiva Eiger) is referenced in an audio lecture by Rabbi Schachter that is on Yeshiva University’s website: http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/739308/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/Options_for_Helping_Agunot# as grounds for beating someone over a get. (It is ironic that Rabbi Eiger writes about a husband who is leaving the city of the marital residence and that immediate action was necessary, whereas in this matter it was Epstein who left the city of marital residence with the child and abused the beis din process so that her abduction of the child would be treated as a fait accompli in court.)
In the letter, Rabbi Schachter says that Aharon's situation is the same as "a slave whose master provides for him a Canaanite maidservant, that until now it is has been permissible, and now it is forbidden." In the audio, he explains that in such a situation the slave, or, as he writes in the letter, Aharon, should be beaten. Furthermore, Rabbi Schachter specifically writes in the letter that any person can take the law into his own hands [to beat Aharon].
See in particular:
4:00 - beat someone over a get (citing Rabbi Akiva Eiger)
4:30 - beat a slave for wrongfully remaining married to maidservant, analogizing this case to the get case, and that anyone can take upon himself to take the law into their own hands to beat the person
9:10 - beat someone up over a get
10:20 - bludgeon someone to death over a get
13:33 - have right to beat someone over a get (citing Rabbi Akiva Eiger)
26:50 - beating for a get with a baseball bat
Rabbi Schachter’s letter can be found at Daas Torah here: http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/04/rav-schachter-i-relied-on-rav.html
Are you sure this happened?
ReplyDeletethis was reported by reliable sources - what are you questioning?
DeleteIn short police records are easily searchable. If you can't show a police report this never happened, and you are simply furthering a horrible libel.
Deleteyes this occurred, the victim is a friend of mine's son so quit thinking that it's all made up!
DeleteIT SURE DID HAPPEN, THE VICTIM IS A FRIEND OF MINE'S SON!!!
DeleteIt did not happen, you are all full of baloney, and Emes, H"S going to punish you and all the others protecting this slimy manipulative jerkwad. And as for him "protecting himself", that defense doesn't work. Because htis is all about the Get. If he signed the Get, none of this would be happening. Ergo, if he signs the get, he won't be asked to sign the get anymore, because the get will be signed. Idiots...
DeleteAnd your friend's son isn't a victim. He's a vile predator. And frankly I wish this weren't a lie, becase he deserves a good pop, but unfortunately the Get wouldn't be valid then. He has to voluntarily give it. Power hungry chauvenistic RASHA.
DeleteBlackadder, another epstein troll, who advocates violence and the abuse of children. Why don't you share with us your name? It is good that you have a direct line with Hashem and what he is going to do. If you could do me a favor to find out for me what lotto numbers I should pick that would be so sweet of you.
DeleteIt's your word against r'eidenson. I would believe his word against any low life anonymous commentor who advocates violence. As for your posts they make no sense and is the ramblings of a fool. You just continue to show the world how low the epsteins have gone.
Abuse of children?! Emes, you're completely off your rocker and not worth my time. Have a nice life, I have better things to do than respond to such shtuyot. And how about you share YOUR name? On second thought, don't, because I really don't care about some hypocritical MOH-ron on the internet...
Deleteso long and farewell. i have never called for violence only demented radicals as yourself have! There you have it folks another Epstein supporter calling for the use of violence!
DeleteDepriving children of their father and causing them physical harm by preventing them from having a relationship with their children is a form of CHILD ABUSE!
As for you, do you know aharon friedman? What is your relationship that you know him so well. Please elaborate and tell us who you are. Or are you too busy hoping for more violence, you bloodthirsty maniac!
it did not hit the police blotter in the local paper
ReplyDeletehttp://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2012/07/31/main_line_times/news/doc501700bf63fb1989959342.txt?viewmode=4
The local paper police blotter publishes about 1% of police incidents.
DeleteThe Philadelphia should be ashamed of themselves. Of all days on Tisha bav?
ReplyDeleteThis has the signature of what happened to brisman. It's time once and for all for the justice system and the rabbanim to come down hard on those who commit and plan these lawless tactics.
ReplyDeleteIn any event one will really have to question the validity of a get should she receive one under these circumstances.
I hve spoken to Aharon Friedman, his family and others who are concerned about this situation. I have been told by a relible source not part of the family that the FBI is now involved. The FBI put somebody away for doing this not long ago, and they are aware that this exists in the Orthodox community and want to combat it. A major newspaper wanted the Philadelphia police files on the case but was told that in the middle of an investigation files are not released. So at this point major coverage of this issue is limited, but you read about it first on my brother's blog.
ReplyDeleteFBI can't be involved. They have no jurisdiction. They would only get involved if he were actually abducted, and enough time had passed for the abductors to have carried them across state lines.
DeleteYour stories are entertaining, but please do what any good fiction writer does and check your facts, that way your fiction will at least have the appearance of truth and a bit of believability.
Here is the list of actual crimes that the FBI will investigate:
Deletehttp://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/what_we_investigate
Attempted abduction of adults is not listed. Meaning they won't investigate.
This incident can actually fall under:
Delete* gangs
* human trafficking
* organized crime
* domestic terrorism
Not the way the FBI describes any of those things.
DeleteIt was definitely a gang
Deleteit was definitely kidnapping to force someone to do something
it was most definitely organized
it was most definitely political making it a form of terrorism.
close enough if you ask me.
nemo is obviously a troll.
Sounds like a perfect case for the FBI.
DeleteBut if you are going to look for a category on the FBI website, "Stopping thugs who attack men who don't give their wives gets", you're not going to find it.
Wow... When one asks for hard evidence for serious claims one is troll?
DeleteThis is an anonymous post, making big claims and offering no documentary evidence. If there is evidence post it. If not, do not expect us to buy a story based on anonymous claims.
Both Rabbi eidensohns have confirmed from non family / reliable sources. what is so difficult to comprehend? If you don't believe them and think they are lying why are you reading this blog?
DeleteAsking for evidence is never trolling.
DeleteWhat is trolling, is playing games with the semantics.
A blog is not a reliable source for any information ever. I could start a blog right now saying that Aharon Friedman is actually a woman, no, a martian, and he eats nothing but peanut butter and is nocturnal. Does that make any of these things true? No, it's a crock of garbage I pulled out of my tuchis to make a point. The point being, this blog is full of misinformation and verbal grasping at straws of a desperate and manipulative minority group that promotes violence against women. Some randomer started the blog and made up a whole bunch of shtuyot. And as for the FBI thing? That is SUCH. A. CROCK. Because the FBI have money to throw at breaking up a fictional street fight? Yes, I'm SURE the FBI are involved. And I have the CIA at my house protecting my family and at my disposal. Idiots...
DeleteBlackadder, how much are the epsteins paying you for your posts of misinformation that you are spreading? The only person here who is calling for violence is yourself.
DeleteSorry but r'eidenson has confirmed from reliable non/family sources and does not mask his identity nor has he called for violence as you have. So for starters if you are going to accuse R' eidenson of lying prove it and identify yourself. If not please stop trolling boring us with your ideas that you "pulled out of your tuchis."
>> A blog is not a reliable source for any information ever.
DeleteWhat cave have you been hiding in?
What happened was that it was known that Aharon was a candidate for a beating and a forced GET, because the ORA terrorism was just breeding more anti-Ora media backlash. So Aharon was told to anticipate violence and get protected. He purchased a certain device and when attacked used it, and this saved him. His glasses were smashed and his cell phone stolen, but the punching was stopped and the police came and took him to a hospital with no major problems.
ReplyDeleteMore indication that the jewish divorce system is totally corrupt from men and women.
ReplyDeletewhat is the whole story with the get. Why does he not want to give one?
ReplyDeleteWho says he doesn't want to give one? He wants to go on with his life, remarry, etc., but right now he is faced with a huge effort of those who support "Agunoth" and who succeeded in getting his daughter taken to Philadelphia away from where she was born adn raised. He knows that as soon as he gives a GET the entire fury of these haters will be unleashed. So, for now, he fears to let go of this defense until things are settled by the courts in a way he can be confident he won't lose his daughter. Ideally the local Beth Din should have taken care of these matters, but today there are so many people mixing in things often end up in court.
DeleteIt is hard to believe that any woman in her right mind will want to marry him after this story. He could be a nice game but why take a chance? I wouldn't let my daughter even consider dating him.
Delete[I do not know Tamar Epstein or her family, so please refrain form accusing me of being on their "side".]
Quite the contrary Michael most women would be impressed to how committed and loving he is to his child. If you don't know the facts maybe it would pay to keep your foolish comments to yourself.
DeleteTypical narrow minded mindset blame the rape victim instead of the rapist!
I have been working in this area for decades and many husbands have valid reasons for not giving a GET, in today's climate where the Rosh Yeshiva of YU calls for someoen to be beaten and maybe killed, and the Rosh Yeshiva of Philly signs a Siruv that the woman should do everything to get a GET. Everything means evrything, and of course, that is exactly what is happening. Yes, husbands are afraid to lose the only bargaining chip they have. They are afraid and they have reason to be afraid. Beating a husband is a vocation that brings in a lot of money.
Delete"Beating a husband is a vocation that brings in a lot of money."
DeleteReally? How much do professional thugs usually get per beating?
Betsalel,
DeleteNot long ago there was a court case with a certain person who made a lot of money with these funny Gittin. A witnesses testified that he demanded a hundred thousand dollars for HETER MAYO Rabbonim which carries no criminal risks. Can you imagine what is charged for a beating?
But of course your are entitled to your opinion that all of these people beating husbands only do it to be kind to others.
Shalom, R' Dovid. Sadly, I have to admit that I'm pleased to see you over here again in support of men who are not toeing the aguna-hysteria line. There is so much more junk going on below the surface of these gender wars; the knee-jerk reaction to liberate the poor, forlorn women "chained" to oppressive marriages is... well, knee-jerk morality. Sometimes of course it's a very real problem that a husband may be using his Halachic trump card that requires him to be the final decisor in Gittin to oppress. Other times, however, it may be a very legitimate concern that is driving him to believe that if H' says he must decide, and the wife is somehow violating HIM in her attempt to force divorce, then by all means he should excercize his right to decide that he's not yet ready...
DeleteBut deeper than this, I await the time that serious rabbonim will recognize that the REAL issue is the tragedy of a failed marriage, which needs serious therapy to recover from. All this feuding, with people on the side choosing sides for less than pure purposes, is just fueling the sinas chinam that has destroyed so much amongst us...
Yet you refused to publish the article that was sent to you as to why the MO rabbis were not allowed to speak at the siyum hashas. So basically you refuse to allow real criticism against the mo.
ReplyDeletethey need to now make tamar epstein responsible for bringing the child to Washington dc every 2nd weekend.
the least you can do is correct your error and post this post now.
I thought Emes sent that? Are you admitting to sock puppetry?
DeleteSorry to burst your bubble but I am not facts. Try again!
DeleteIts time for the justice system to come down on the thugs that carried out the attack, on the family for orchestrating the attack and on those rabonim that approve it. This is an embarrassment for the entire Philly community. So much for the city of brothely love.
ReplyDeleteWhy hasn't he given a get yet ? the question you might start with may be "Is he obligated to give a get" ? I am not a posek at all however it seems to me that the teshuva of rabbi eiger is probably not relevant. If that is the case, i doubt this man can give a get at this point, because it would be a get me'usah and he would be encouraging her to marry and have mamzerim. Those who hit him are not shluchei beis din so either way they are violating pen yosif and are violation a mitzva deorayso. If this reasoning holds up, then those who send them would then be rodfim halachically, so even killing the rodfim would be permitted to avoid them from sending people to attack him if not possible in any other way. It makes interesting halachic discussion. none of this should be taken literally, especially by men who have painted their hair red.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the story about the Federal charges against the husband/wife hit team that beat up MEIR BRISKMAN in Lakewood. The charges were filed by prosecutors almost 2 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAny progress? They are facing 20 years in prison.
I checked the electronic docket for the District of New Jersey. Basically, for the last year, the court has been entering what is termed 'Orders to Continue.' The papers say that the Government and then defendants are negotiating a plea agreement, and they need more time, so the date of proceedings should be extended by two months. Since both sides are asking for it, the judge almost always grants it. THe last such order was entered on July 31st and ends on September 27th.
Delete(BTW, the docket also states that a Complaint was filed in May 2011 and they were arrested in July 2011. So the case has only been going on a little more than a year.)
In short, the case is in limbo while the Govt. and the defendants are negotiating a deal. Stay tuned.
I am personally involved in this case and therefore cannot mention my name. The facts presented here are accurate and are quite easy to verify. There are two main points that were left out of the narrative.
ReplyDelete1. Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky has given his name as the impetus for ORA Get to do these public protests, including a recent one upon a Kollel yungerman who is a grandson of one of the leading Roshei Yeshiva today and pressure is being placed on the grandfather not to allow his grandson to learn in his yeshiva. These public protests are the indirect cause of the brutality being used in the Friedman case. Right-thinking people should protest these protests. I have tried unsuccessfully, but, if more people try,perhaps ORA Get will listen to reason.
2. Aharon Friedman is not a rasha and he is not unwilling to give a get. He simply wants guarantees that, once he gives a get, he will still be able to see his daughter. Everything that has happened till now supports the probability that the mother will block his every effort to see his daughter once a get is granted.
Should a man give a get under these circumstances?
My years of learning hilchos gittin have taught me that any get given under these circumstances is suspect as a get me'useh and therefore not worth the value of the paper it is written on. Rabbonim should tell the mother this fact.
My latest effort is to get a cartain Rav to intercede to broker a solution between the two sides. I might add that my offer to ORA Get to help broker a solution was summarily refused: "We have our own ways."
We all need to act to prevent further violence in this and in all such cases.
To think, the day that the Chofetz Chaim Foundation showed the video of looking at the good in everyone!
A tragedy for klal yisroel!
and to think that chofetz chaim heritage is headed by - yes you guessed it - rabbi shmuel kaminetsky - he leading such an organization - the pot calling the kettle black
DeleteCould someone please list the names of the rabbis and the organizations they are affiliated with, who have incited and have attended these protests?
ReplyDeleter hershel schechter - yeshiva university - ora
DeleteDont forget
DeleteRabbis:
Shmuel Jablon - principal of TA in phili
Kenneth Auman - kehillah kashrus of flatbush
Shmuel Hertzfield - washington dc
Dear blogger,
ReplyDeleteIs this now going to be a blog for publishing libel and wild stories that have no factual backing?
Are we going to be treated to Friedman family fan fiction?
Nemo,
DeleteYou are an Epstein troll. A simple call to the police dept will satisfy your fraudulent curiosity. The fact that you are trying to cover up the violence that took place by questioning the blog site owner shows what you truly are. Rabbi eidensohn already verified this with non family sources (see the above post).
Get over it, the epsteins tried to do to aharon what the wax's did to briskman. The only difference is that the epsteins plan failed.
All the ways of Torah are pleasant. I don't see anything pleasant in vigilantes beating someone up in order to get the guy's signature.
ReplyDeleteNemo - you must have a real agenda here - there were witnesses and other evidence. maybe you are closely related here?!?
ReplyDeleteThere is no police report. There is nothing in the paper. There is no FBI file. Just because some anonymous blogger and some sock puppets say this happened doesn't make it a reality.
ReplyDeleteUnless you can provide actual documentary evidence then there is no reason to believe that it happened.
check the police report - i did - it exists
DeleteNemo and his like are either the type that deny any problems exist in the community like alcholism pedophila etc. Or the type that spread false rumors. r' eidenson iñ a previous post already verified it with a source not from the family. In addition other posters here have called up to inquire and verified something which you are obviously lying about.
DeleteIf I were the epsteins I would be very nervous now.
Then post it.
DeleteNemo for starters Rabbi eidensohn has already vouched for it, In addition he has used his real name, unlike you who are hiding behind the screen name of a cartoon character! As far as most readers here we know that he does his research.
DeleteInstead of trying to avoid the facts by trying to mislead everyone by questioning something that has been verified. Why don't you reveal to everyone who you are?
Cartoon character? Nemo was the name Ulysses used when he blinded Cyclops because he feared retribution upon himself and his family from Neptune, Cyclops' father. Nemo is classic latin for "Nobody". Essentially I use pseudonym for the same reason. I fear the retribution of these idolators that lie and change the Torah to suit their whims.
DeleteDovid Eidensohn is a Friedman supporter and thus no more reliable a source then Jeremy Stern would be. Likewise Daniel Eidensohn cannot be expected to go against his brother. Both sides say the other is lying. So without documentary proof, there is no way of knowing who is telling the truth.
So call the right number. Pay the fee. Get the police report and post it:
http://www.lowermerion.org/Index.aspx?page=1190
Why do you need to spread your avodah zorah on this site, you chose a name from greek/roman mythology and then one sentence later say you fear idolaters? You are one very confused individual. Why don't you go post your trash on hirhurim along with the other apikorsim!
DeleteAs for your hate towards r' eidenson and equating him with that heretic Jeremy stern is pathetic.
Unlike Jeremy Stern, R' eidenson has not been running media campaigns against politicians, holding protests in front of family members who live hundreds of miles away, actively tried to Aharon fired or say on fox news that he wants to change halacha, nor having a fundraiser in a treif bar with getting jewish singles drunk or advocating the use of children as tools!
r' eidensohn's chezkas kashurs is a lot better than yours, so unless you have proof that he is lying please stop trolling!
I feel compelled to repeat what I have posted several times previously. I heard Rav Aharaon Soloveichik say that in America, a get coerced by beatings is invalid. The reason is that, even in those cases where the halakha permits beating and other coercion to force a get, that has to be ordered by a beis din. A beis din by definition has to be able to operate openly and order whatever it orders. In America, the law of the land does not empower any religious body or beis din to beat anyone over anything -- to the contrary, such behavior is blatantly criminal. Therefore, a beis din that orders such a beating is not acting as a beis din and any coercion as a result is illicit. (He noted that in some countries and times, the local authority DID empower the local Jewish beis din to enforce its power. The gemara in Sanhedrin 4a and Rashi there note that in Bavel, the Parthians did grant the Jewish batei din such powers. In that situation, beatings ordered by a beis din were legal, and hence could be a proper basis to coerce a get. I should add (this is my own note) that there is a teshuvas ha Rosh that discusses whether a Jewish beis din can administer capital punishment based on permission of the local king. Apparently in Moslem Spain, the kings did this, and the Rosh approves of exercising that power.)
ReplyDeleteR. Eidensohn, I know you and your brother have ignored this comment, but I am curious whether you are aware of anyone else who has written or held like R. Aharon or against his view.
In any case, if what you right is true, ORA is playing with fire. The end result will be jail time and Chillul shem Shomayim.
Mr. Benschar,
DeleteYour comment smack of YU - modern Orthodox obfuscation and denial of the Torah principle of moredes (rebellious wife).
Mr. Friedman is a normal Jewish man whose wife abandoned him and absconded with their child, without permission of Bais Din. Therefore Mr. Friedman has no obligation under halacha to give Epstein a Get as she is clearly a moredet.
An agunah is a wife whose husband is missing (due to no fault of the wife) or incapable of functioning as a husband, and the wife is unable to obtain a Get. Epstein is NOT an agunah in any way, shape, or form, as I believe halacha grants her the right to return to her husband, but SHE is refusing to do so, not him.
And before the attempted kidnapping, what ora has done so far was not a chilul hashem?
DeleteTal,
DeleteA very interesting post. But here the issue is much more simple. The fact is that no Beth Din, no Beth Din, can issue a GET without the consent of the husband. But if there is a Beth Din accepted by the husband as one qualified to reveal the will of the Torah, the husband accepts that and ultimately, after a beating, comes around to give the GET willingly. These beater Beth Dins are not accepted by the husband or any truly qualified posek, and thus any GET coerced by a Beth Din not accepted or recognized by the husband is invalid. Furthermore, gedolei hador have come out against this kind of an instant Beth Din and nobody should accept it.
Mr. Emes:
DeleteYou seem to have a reading problem. My comments did not address the facts of the Epstein case at all. I simply pointed out an additional halakhic reason why beating someone is invalid in America today.
You seem to have an agenda to want to insult people, without even bothering to address what they wrote. Since it is almost Elul, I am moichel you.
(BTW, I thought anonymous posts were not allowed.)
Reply to Mr. Benschar:
DeleteMy previous comment was based on what I consider to be the misleading nature of your comments.
Your comments such as "even in those cases where the halakha permits beating and other coercion to force a get" might easily cause a reasonable person to erroneously conclude that coercing Mr. Friedman to give a Get might be proper, but the problem is that the Get cannot be coerced in America.
Creating an appearance that halacha might allow beating Mr. Friedman if Bais Din had the authority only serves to further the cause of ORA.
I called the police department and there were no reports of any such occurrence happening.
ReplyDeletereally sam, which police department did you call?
DeleteThe Lower Merion Police Department: 610-649-1000.
DeleteThanks Sam, I will try to call them tom.
DeleteDon't expect the police to comment on a sensitive ongoing investigation.
DeleteDo you think they are going to make public witness statements or evidence they may or may not have?
Rabbi Daniel and Rabbi David Eidensohn,
ReplyDeleteMay Hashem bless you for exposing the great evil and injustices being committed against Aharon Friedman and other decent Jewish fathers by the vicious feminist thugs of ORA and their allies and apologists.
The time is long overdue that these feminist biryonim and their fraudulent "rabbis" and supporters should be exposed as the utter reshaiyim that they are, and summarily expelled from the Jewish community.
Emes, Thank you, but the reality is that ORA and "basball bat" Schachter have large amount of people working for their organizations, and are heavily funded. The solution is to make an opposite organization based on normative Judaism and Torah. But it is easier to get people to listen to the Satan than to Emes. This blog is a refreshing oasis of emes, but much more, especially local organizations, are needed to prevent disaster in family.
Deleteassualt of federal employee (his employment was put into play by the epsteins / their representatives pressuring his supervisor to fire him; an illegal act in itself. CRA 1965) would definitely bring in the FBI.
ReplyDeleteas for the wax'es. the only reason the feds would let a two year delay is because they are "cooperating" , i.e., ratting on somebody else (i dont think so; i dont think they have "dirt" on anybody substantial) or they are participating on a sting on somebody else (?this case? ?other cases?)
Actually he is a sick individual , why else would all the rabbis have said that he should give the get ? and no the epsteins are not rich enough to buy them all off , which will be your loony conspiracy response.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has refused bais din orders and acted in such a wicked way to his wife , he actually deserves much more , which he will get after a 120.
u miss the point - he listened to bais din - but she walked out and bais din never issued a psak. then she went bais din hopping - till she found one that issued a seruv after one haznmana - which i think is a big chidush. no bais din ever issued a psak in thia case - they never got the chance. when one party walks out of bais din the other party no longer has a chiyuv to go to another bais din
Deleteavg,
DeleteWhat Beth Din said he must give a GET? Not the Baltimore Beth Din who heard the case, and not the Beth Din that issued the Siruv, which was simply a command that he go to a Beth Din, not that he divorce. Ask Rabbi Ralbag, as I did, about this.
Technically you need the opinion of the majority of the Bais Din. I believe at least three of them say that he must give her a get.
Delete[Therefore the Halacha is to beat him untill he listens.]
Even according to your interpretation he still didn't listen to the Bais Din.
Actually, if what avf has said is true that the beis din didnt even hear the case but some of the judges say he has to give her a get, then that sounds like corruption to me. Doesn't a beis din first have to listen to both sides before issuing a psak?
DeleteAvf, are you off your rocker?
DeleteTamar walked out of beis din so according to your way of thinking she should be beaten because she didnt listen to beis din and come back?
Avf, are you off your rocker?
DeleteTamar walked out of beis din so according to your way of thinking she should be beaten because she didnt listen to beis din and come back?
What is wrong with you? Your logic is of a radical bloodthirsty zealot.
Thinker- not if he refuses to come before them , then they listen just to her side.
Delete"Emes" - their was never a seruv against her .
"Radical bloodthirsty zealot" ???$#%$
It's your logic not mine.
Deleteshe walked out of beis din and RSK wrote a letter (rsk has received over 30 years tovas hana from the epsteins). The baltimore beis din was then afraid of the backlash of starting up with rsk. She went to the silver spring beis din and they told her to go back to baltimore where she left, which she did not. Then she went to the hebrew national rabbi who issued one hazmanh and then issued a seruv before it could even be responded to.
1) Halacha states that a seruv is issued after 3 hazmanos
and there needs to be sufficient time to be responded to
2) Acc. to the shulchan Aruch a judge who has received tovas
hanah can not sit in the beis din. One of the signators
was rsk!
3) Botei dinim in America are not allowed to administer any
punishment. Since the government doesn't allow it.
Therefore acc. to halachah and the law of the land they
are not permitted to sanction any beatings
anyone who commits acts of violence they are not
sanctioned to do it through halachah
Yes you are a blood thirsty zealot because you advocate beatings by perverting halachah and trying to be michshal the rabim into thinking someone should be beaten when there are no grounds for it acc to halacha.
We all seem to be missing the one enormous tragedy: the destruction of a family and of two adults and one baby. Each side davens in a shul(s), has contacts with rabbis and friends, interacts among us; but how many of us will take the time out of their busy day to involve themselves with these people, to help them get advice and support to achieve a realistic settlement. A case such as this one has had many rabbis involved at some point, many community members aware of the details, yet almost no one who is working to help them reach a conclusion. Most of us prefer to discuss "the problem" in a anomymous way on a blog like this. If you know these two people, get involved; you just may help them rebuild their lives.
ReplyDeleteamen
Deleteu know how many times the epstein family has been approached and their response - why should we talk we're winning. u know how mant times the kaminetsky family has responded 'there is nothing to talk about'
Deletetotal strangers - experts in the field - rabonim - roshai yehivas - all received the same response
Can anyone provide any other source that this in fact happened? It is strange that I can find no other mention of this in newspapers or other blogs
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying this is made up... But as a resident of Lower Merion I can tell you (FROM MY EXPERIENCE)
ReplyDelete- Nothing has been mentioned of an attack around the "water cooler" at Young Israel, Lower Merion Shul Or the Philadelphia Kollel
- Nothing has been mentioned of an attack on the community mailing-list
If it happened, no one around me is talking about it
why should they - the epsteins support all those institutions u mention
DeleteI called the police dept on monday and they said that there was an incident!
DeleteGENIOUSE NECHEMIA y in their rt mind would the Epsteins publicize what they did They r very good at covering things up and preventing whatever makes them look bad not leak out $$$$$$$$$
DeleteI am saying this is made up.
DeleteI called the Lower Merion Police department(610.649.1000. I spoke with public relations officer Walsh. He said that they have no report any any assualt, attempted assualt or attempted abduction on the day in question, or in regards to a Mr Friedman.
Rabbi Tzadok,
DeleteStop trying to cover up the incident. Retract your false allegation.
Good luck trying to get him to retract anything. He still has never retracted when they proved him wrong with his made up statistics about the populationf Israel. If I am not mistaken I don't think he ever admitted he was wrong on anything. He must be perfect and all knowing
DeleteI'm not covering up anything, and in fact I am giving you the resources to find the truth yourself if you want.
DeleteLower Merion Police Department 610.649.1000. Ask to speak to Public Relations Officer Walsh.
Philadelphia FBI Field office. 215.418.4000 If there was an incident that they are investigating under the Freedom of Information act they are required to tell you.
FOIA requests must be made in writing. Calling the police does not constitute a FOIA request and they don't have to tell you anything over the phone.
DeleteAnd the police will not confirm an investigation or police event to a random phone caller.
DeleteMichael, I thought you were done with this site? why the change of heart?
ReplyDeleteAre you insinuating that r' eidenson made this all up?
ReplyDeleteI'm insinuating nothing. I am saying that the story was made up and R' Eidensohn didn't bother to check facts by making a simple phone call to the police.
DeleteSorry to break it to you but r' eidensohn has already stated that he has confirmed it with non family reliable sources. I would take his word over yours any day.
DeleteBesides I would imagine if this is an open investigation the police would not comment on this.
I would tend to believe based upon your past history of making up stuff like the census number s in Israel that your conversation with office wals h was a figment of your imagination.
So far r eidenson has not been caught making up stuff like you have so its his word against yours.
Please don't take my word for it. Please call the Lower Merion Police department 610.649.1000 and ask to speak to Public Relations Officer Walsh.
DeleteWhile you are at it please call the Philadelphia FBI Field office 215.418.4000 and speak with them as well.
I'm not asking you to rely upon anonymous and unverifiable sources. I'm asking you to actually call and find out for your self, just like I did.
The police will not confirm an investigation or police event to a random phone caller. FOIA requests must be made in writing.
DeleteRabbi Tzadok,
ReplyDeleteYou claim on your blog that any get given as a result of a beating in the case would not be valid. Has Rabbi Kamenetesky or any of the other rabbonim inciting against Aharon ever said that? Have you asked any of them?
You are kidding me with this right?
ReplyDeleteFirst the phone number is fake. 120 is not a valid area code.
Second you claim that these things can be searched online on Marylands court system here is the link, they cannot:
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/processDisclaimer.jis
Third you have supposed emergency court rulings that, honestly have not actual connection with the individuals(unless you can provide some). Both of the lawyers mentioned here are different than the lawyers that have been representing them from the beginning as you laid out in your "Procedural summary":
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/04/procedural-summary-of-epstein-friedman.html
Nor are either Epstein or Friedman named in those documents.
Finally while the police do not have to divulge the actual details of their ongoing investigation, they DO have to divulge, under the freedom of information act:
A) If an incident occured.
B) Who the victim was(assuming they are over 18)
They will answer any caller, and definitely any blogger as bloggers by and large are now considered credentialed press.
So enough with the fabrications.
Mike:
DeleteA) Bloggers are not considered any more "credentialed press" than any shmoe on the street. Any shmoe on the street can create a blog and be a "blogger" in about 3 minutes.
B) Police generally do NOT divulge information to a random anonymous telephone caller. FOIA requests, legally, need to be submitted in writing. And a fee is required by the person making the FOIA request.
The proof is here. Tzadok is a lying rat who makes Joseph Goebbels proud. With all this propagandizing, Tzadok is likely a conspirator in Epstein's domestic terrorism on one level or another.
DeleteSo you are trying to make an argument for an incident based on something you claim cannot be verified by any outside source, only our own special inside information.
DeleteYou claim that an assault occured and didn't make the local news, which itself is pretty incredible.
You are claiming that the Lower Merion Police department is withholding information from the public in direct violation of the Freedom of Information Act, which requires public disclosure.
You still haven't actually called the police dept to check the facts.
Proof?
DeleteYou give an incident report number which you claim that the Lower Merion Police have(illegally) withheld from their blotter.
You have a couple of internet court docs(that could have been fabricated like this story) that list lawyers that do not match your previous postings and make no mention of either Friedman or Epstein.
Oh and the Lower Merion Police, for anyone who calls and speaks with Public Relations Officer Walsh deny that this happened. So what exactly do you consider to be proof? This is getting to be obscene.
Sorry.
DeleteYou are able to prove that there was an emergency hearing in the child custody dispute and that something in the arrangements of either transfer or custody was changed. But that is all you have been able to prove.
The Public Relations Officer of the Lower Merion Police force still denies this event happened.
Michael:
Delete"Make local news"? The vast majority of assaults never make the news.
"Withholding information"? The police are not withholding anything.
"direct violation of the Freedom of Information Act"? FOIA requires a written request and a fee be paid. No one submitted a written request to the Meron police.
"Public Relations Officer Walsh"? I just called him. He verified there is an assault against Mr. Friedman being investigated by the police.
Tzadok you really are a blabbering fool. the ruling is on a government website! Or maybe according to you the government fabricated the docket numbers too!
Deletehttp://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=71624FL&loc=68&detailLoc=MCCI
In an emergency motion Courts will not change a previous judgement that was issued unless they were serious grounds for it. You obviously have no knowledge of the legal system.
As for your insistence to bother with the the police in lower merion, the police will not release information over the phone to morons like yourself especially when there is a sensitive investigation going on.
As for your claim of it not being on the blotter, everyday there are thousands of crimes not listed. The nypd used to have a half page blotter in the ny newsday that had a about an average of 10 crimes listed. Do you really think that in NYC there were only 10 crimes committed on any given day. 911 receives hundreds if not thousands of calls on an average day. Don't be so naive!
Perhaps you didn't notice I caught my mistake and apologized for it before your little rant.
DeleteAnyway the police blotter is what is made publicly available and, except in rare instances, contains every crime committed within a week the police responded to.
For instance the Lower Merion Police blotter for the week in question which can be found here
http://www.lowermerion.org/Index.aspx?page=880
, contains 795 incidents that occurred in that week listted by day and time. Your incident is not listed. The number in question is skipped.
IF the police were surpressing the case so that it could not be released to the press, then it also would not be able to be used in an emergency custody hearing for which(as the above court record indicates) any "moron"(to use your words) could pay their $15 and get a copy of the audio.
Skipped numbers from what I have been told are most often false dials on a 911 call, which require an initial incident log, but for which there is no actual police action(hence it doesn't make the blotter).
We're not talking about what the newspapers decide to report, we are talking about what the police, legally, have to make available to the public.
There may be assaults that go unreported in New York, or there on the North Shore of Manhatten. However, that is not the case in the rather affluent Main Line. I know, I lived there.
Tzaddok,
DeleteThere are numerous incidents that were skipped according to you legally they would have to post it even if they were false dials. Since they have to be made know to the public! You mean to tell me that main line had so many false dials that day?
From my understanding just because it is suppressed and not released to the media it does not mean that it could not be subpoenaed to the the court!
I find it interesting that you and the other pro-Friedman folks are trying to discourage people from calling the police to check the veracity of your story.
ReplyDeleteIs that because you could get into serious legal trouble for making this stuff up or is it because you don't want them finding the truth?
I called Public Relations Officer Walsh at the Lower Merion Police, and he confirmed over the phone that the police department is investigating an assault against Mr. Friedman.
DeleteReally? When was that? The Public relations officers aren't in on Sunday and officer Walsh hasn't been in today, he called out sick.
DeleteOfficer Walsh was in and on duty. Officer Walsh has not taken a sick day at all in the past week (and more.)
DeleteReally? Are you married to him?
DeleteI thought you were after you (falsely) claimed he took a sick day off.
Deletetzadok that was a real intelligent response! You almost had me there and actually gave thought to what you had to say but now I realize that you are just trolling!
DeleteIt's bizarre that you are all attacking R. Tzadok when all he is asking for is a verification of the facts. It's shocking that you are all happy to comment and opine (120 comments) on an incident that may never have happened and then assasinate the character of the one who is just asking for some clear irrefutable proof that it did. I find this whole thing quite pathetic.
ReplyDeleteAnd it certainly seems strange that R. Eidensohn keeps this up on his blog given that serious questions were raised concerning its veracity. Why not take it down or write a disclaimer, until it can be verified objectively. Its been up for nearly a week and still no proof. Seems like a clear breach of yashrut to me.
To Daas Torah:
DeleteSeriously how do you justify keeping this accusation top center on your blog when there is no verifiable evidence of its truth. If there is no police report then its just a bunch of one-sided lies and manipulations. How do you justify continuing to display them on your blog with no apology or caution. Why compromise your credibility for this. What is in it for you?
Don't be fooled with tzadoks rants. Its a problem when someone like tzadok who has been proven in the past to have made stories and information up. It's funny how tzadok who has spread misinformation in the past is claiming that r' eidenson is posting stuff that is not true. So far in all my time reading this blog I have never seen or heard r' eidednson lying so unless someone who is reputable has proof that he is. its tzadoks word against his.
DeleteAs for tzadoks claims about local and state laws, he is neither a lawyer or an expert in the field. How does tzadok answer for other numbers that are missing on the blotter. As commentator abe has posted before only one percent of crimes are actually reported on the blotter. In addition unless it is submitted in writing and a fee has been paid you will not get very far.
As far as his ridiculous claim that bloggers are considered credentialed press that is ludicrous, to be fair there are some who have credentialed press and when it is verified they will get recognition. but in most cases where someone like tzadukki is calling they will not give him the time of day especially when there is an ongoing investigation.
Rabbi Tzadok,
ReplyDeleteYour attempts to cast aspersion on whether this incident happened is getting more and more desperate.
You seem to realize that if the docket cited by Rabbi Eidensohn is accurate, that this casts aspersion on your claim that the whole thing is made up.
So you claim that the names of the lawyers are different so the docket Rabbi Eidonsohn cited must be from a different case. That is really clutching at straws. Perhaps the parties changed lawyers, Or perhaps the lawyers were the partners of the lawyers used previously by the parties because it was an "emergency" motion and the original lawyers were not available.
Rabbi Tzadok,
ReplyDeleteYou claim that the lawyers on the docket (Engle and McGrath) are different than those cited on the summary previously provided by Rabbi Eidonsohn (Liotta and Webb) and therefore the whole thing must be made up.
If you do a google search on those lawyers with the words divorce law, you will find that Engle (actually Engel) and Liotta are partners, as are Webb and McGrath.
The docket entries of the case, including the entries from last week cited by Rabbi Eidensohn are publicly available here:
ReplyDeletehttp://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/processDisclaimer.jis
I am a bit confused by this "proof". Even if this docket is legitimate, it only shows that motions related to custody were heard. That proves nothing.
ReplyDeleteWhy didnt Friedman ask for a TRO? That is standard procedure for someone who gets threatened or beat up.
Ben bono
ReplyDeletehere is your proof.
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=71624FL&loc=68&detailLoc=MCCI
I think you owe r' eidensohn an apology. His sources are obviously reliable as far as that charlatan tzadok I suggest you find other people who are reputable to follow!
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=71624FL&loc=68&detailLoc=MCCI
ReplyDelete[highlight above and do right click to open in new tab]
This is the report available from the Maryland courts regarding the custody battle and in particular the recent emergency motion that was granted. the following are the relevant excerpts
======================
Case Information
Court System: Circuit Court for Montgomery County - Domestic System
Case Number: 71624FL Sub Type: DOMESTIC FAMILY
Date Filed: 07/21/2008
Case Status: REOPENED
Plaintiff Information
(Each Alias, Address, and Attorney for the Plaintiff is displayed)
Name: FRIEDMAN, AHARON JEFFREY ERIC
Address: 1131 UNIVERSITY BLVD WEST 716
SILVER SPRING MD 20902
Attorney(s) for the Plaintiff
Name: MCGRATH, RHIAN
Address: LERCH, EARLY & BREWER, CHARTERED
3 BETHESDA METRO CTR 460
BETHESDA MD 20814-5367
Phone: 301-986-1300
Defendant Information
(Each Alias, Address, and Attorney for the Defendant is displayed)
Name: EPSTEIN, TAMAR ESTHER
Address: 271 LINDEN LANE
MERION STATION PA 19066
Defendant Aliases
Name: FRIEDMAN, TAMAR ESTHER
Court Scheduling Information
(Schedule is subject to change)
Event Date: 10/12/2012 Event Time: 09:30 AM Judge: SALANT, STEVEN G
Location: 50 Maryland Avenue 6th Floor Courtroom: 15
Description: REVIEW HEARING
Issues Information
Issue: DIVORCE ABSOLUTE
Issue: INJUNCTION
Issue: FEES
Issue: VISITATION
Issue: DIVORCE LIMITED
==========
Docket Date: 08/03/2012 Docket Number: 179
Docket Description: MOTION, CHANGE OF CUSTODY (RESIDENTIAL)
Docket Type: Motion Filed By: Plaintiff Status: Granted
Ruling Judge: SALANT, STEVEN G
Reference Docket(s): Ruling: 181
Docket Text: PLAINTIFF'S VERIFIED EMERGENCY MOTION TO MODIFY LOCATION OF TRANSITIONS AND CUSTODY, STATEMENT OF GROUNDS AND AUTHORITIES, CERTIFICATION UNDER MD. RULES 1-204 (B) AND 1-351, AND ATTACHMENT, FILED.
Docket Date: 08/03/2012 Docket Number: 180
Docket Description: SUMMONS ISSUED
Docket Type: Docket Filed By: Court
Docket Text: SUMMONS ISSUED FOR PERSONAL SERVICE AND HANDED TO ATTORNEY.
Docket Date: 08/03/2012 Docket Number: 181
Docket Description: HEARING
Docket Type: Ruling Filed By: Court Status: Granted
Ruling Judge: SALANT, STEVEN G
Reference Docket(s): Motion: 179
Docket Text: HEARING (SALANT, J.) ON PLAINTIFF'S VERIFIED EMERGENCY MOTION TO MODIFY LOCATION OF TRANSITIONS AND CUSTODY. (#179) - GRANTED. ORDER SIGNED. PLAINTIFF APPEARED WITH COUNSEL MS. MCGRATH. MS. ENGLE APPEARED BY PHONE ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT, WHO WAS NOT PRESENT.
Audio Media: 15-080312 Start: 14:40:51 Stop: 15:13:41
Right but all that proves is that there was an emergency custody hearing.
Deletechachm, why else would there be an emergency hearing and the order granted? No judge changes judgement unless there was a pressing need to.
Deletethe only thing the case record proves is that the judge approved
ReplyDeletePLAINTIFF'S VERIFIED EMERGENCY MOTION TO MODIFY LOCATION OF TRANSITIONS AND CUSTODY. (#179) - GRANTED.
that's all. It does not prove an assault occurred. There is no mention of an assault in the court document. And given that nobody has actually produced a police report yet the burden of proof is to prove something actually happened.
- can we get more details of the assault? just how did he manage to escape "2 or 3" thugs in his weakened state of fasting ? and what injuries did he sustain that supposedly required medical attention?
and as a side point. if you're going to hire thugs to beat someone up, why would you do it on your own property? i mean I'd be a little more discreet to cover my tracks a bit rather than making it so blatantly obvious I was involved.
In general an emergency motion will not be accepted or ruled on unless there were grounds for it. Anyone who has familiarity with the judicial system specifically to divorce would know judges will not grant a change to judgement especially when it comes to a guy unless there was reason to.
DeleteAs for details of the assault its very simple. This was a copy cat of the brisman case. An attempted kidnapping in order to beat and force until a get was issued. Tisha bav was obviously picked bec they knew where he would be and he would be in a weakened state. The reality is the plan failed bec what probably happened was they failed to knock him out right away and started to yell which drew unwanted attention. Those who are familiar with the neighborhood it is an upscale with virtually no crime, so this was no random act.
As for them being stupid enough to do it on their lawn. This isn't the first stupid thing they have done. i.e. Getting the media involved with her child was real smart and beneficial to her right or aligning themselves with a rabbi who incites violence!
on their property? some people are smart and others are... even to be a thief and a gangster one must have some brains
Deletewhy are there no independent reports of this in local news for example?
ReplyDeletegood question
DeleteR. Eidensohn. You lost me. This is such a breach of yashrut. In weeks you have not produced one shred of confirming evidence. The emergency motion for custody transfer does not mention or even hint to an assault. There are a million other hypothetical explanations for why that might have been granted. Where is the TempRestrainOrder that is typically filed in a situation of assault. You have kept this accusation at the top of your blog for over a week without any hard proof.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying it didn't happen. I have no idea. But the fact is, up till now, you have presented no proof and yet have kept the accusation front and center on your blog. Where is the integrity here. How is truth served here? It is as if you are saying, "who needs truth, this is an opportunity to bash ORA and R. Shechter, let's go for it. And if it turns out not to be true, we'll put a little disclaimer on the corner of the blog somewhere. The damage will already be done." I'm shocked and disappointed that you would stoop to this kind of crooked dealing.
My vote is take it down until you have REAL supporting proof.
Daas Torah gave the police number 1207290113. That's enough proof, since it's public information.
DeleteIf you think the incident didn't happen, then the burden of proof is on you.
For an incident that does not appear on the police blotter, which means that nothing actually happened.
DeleteI agree with betzalel, As other com-mentors have pointed out that tzadok does not have a chezkas kashrus about providing reliable information i.e israels population etc. the burden of proof is on tzadok.
DeleteJust because it is not listed does not mean it did not happen. There are many numbers that were not on the blotter that day. There are obviously reasons the police did not put all of the numbers on. I find it hard to believe that there were so many false calls to 911 on that day in that are of philli.
I take no side in this case, and have no interest in getting involved.
ReplyDeleteAn alleged attack has been reported to have taken place. R'Tzadok has asked to verify that the attack took place, rather than a change in the child's collection times.
It is not befitting to attack either of the rabbis who are discussing this case, regardless of one's personal affiliations. Many of the people doing such attacking probably did not bathe for 3 weeks recently, to show their sorrow at the reasons for the Hurban Beit HaMikdash. yet they are quite relaxed about calling people "snakes", "liars", etc.
Is halacha and the search for truth just like a football game, where spectators yell at the opposing team ?
Eddie,
ReplyDeleteOn this topic, ad hominem attacks are the norm. Rav Schachter is being accused of calling for Aharon to be physically beaten. The attached letter DOES NOT call for violence.
ORA was founded precisely to avoid the type of illegal activities surrounding Agunahs in the frum world. They do not promote any illegal activity. They are opposed to violence. To suggest that Rav Schachter "may" have been involved is despicable.
If you want an example of real rabbinic incitement to violence, that actually resulted in real violence, just read the Kol Koreh in favor of the Sakrikim and Weissfish signed by the Edah HaCharaidi, including Rav Shternbuch.
Not one Rabbi who signed that despicable letter has ever publicly recanted. It remains their policy.
James,
ReplyDeleteAre you going to deny that is r' shachters voice on the audio or that was an imposter on the video?
Please stop trying to deflect that he called for violence by trying to attack others. The fact is he called for violence and there is irrefutable proof. You try to bring apples and oranges but this post on the blog is about him.
Once again recklessness on the part of the YU to be having this discussion in front of young hot headed students. It is extremely irresponsible to be having that shiur especially in front of that age demographic! (Let us not forget what happened in Israel in the nineties, does Yigal Amir ring a bell?).
As far as Ora they are an establishment that will never earn the respect or support of the chareidi world due to their blatant violation of halachah and heresy that they spew forth. As for your lie that they act within the law what do you call the following?
1) harrasment through anonymous hate mail to family members who have no say
2) the use of children as tools. that is a form of child abuse
3) defacing public property by putting signs on public property which is illegal in NYC
Please stop trying to spread lies about how ora acts within the law. they one hundred percent do not!!!
Y.U. Apikoris: "Let us not forget what happened in Israel in the nineties, does Yigal Amir ring a bell?"
Delete--------------
1) Does Yitzhak Rabin shakling hands with Arafat, and providing arms to the PLO which he brought in from Tunisia ring a bell?
2) does the Haredi incitement against the settlers and support for a Labour land for "peace" deal ring a bell?
3) Have you seen the Kempler video of the assassination, which shows that rabin was not actually killed by Yigal Amir? Or Peres' party trick of the blood stained song for peace that was allegedly folded in Rabin's breast pocket, but only had 1 hole in it. (A bullete going through a twice folded piece of paper would leave 4 holes once the paper is unfolded).
As for Ora/Shachter controversy - I have NO comment!
I listened to the shiur two times.
DeleteYou would have to be really twisted to interpret the shiur as an incitement to violence. Rav Schachter is quoting Torah sources. The conclusion of the shiur at 26:50 which you say states "beating for a get with a baseball bat" actually talks about signing a pre-nup. There is no incitement to violence any more than there is in Lakewood teaching that Sabbath violators are "chayav missa".
There is no evidence that any of his students assaulted Aharon. Actually, there is no evidence that Aharon was assaulted at all.
Everything ORA does is in consultation with attorneys. (How I wish the Edah HaChareidi would consult with attorneys before they incite real violence.) ORA was conceived as an ALTERNATIVE to the thuggery that characterized Agunah issues in the past. (The hassidim still prefer the thug method.) Why would any group of people create a public organization, hold public protests, and then resort to violence. It makes no sense. If they wished to resort to violence, they would not create a public organization at all. Why would the attorneys on the Board of Directors do something so stupid?
Maybe RDE and Aharon realized that they were losing public support so they concocted a fake assault to gain support. There is more evidence of that than there is of Rav Schachter's involvement.
Yigal Amir is not relevant to this conversation. He never went to YU. (He did, however, attend haredi yeshivas as a child. Perhaps he was exposed to fanaticism at an early age)
Lastly, if anyone is using children as tools, it is Aharon. RDE has admitted that he will not give the get because he is afraid he will lose custody. That is admitting that he is using the get as leverage. Moreover, it is a lie! How would giving a get affect custody? Aharon and Tamar are already in court over custody. Are we to believe that the court would consider granting a GET as a reason to grant Tamar full custody? It makes no sense.
The truth is that Aharon doesnt like the custody agreement so he is using the GET as leverage to get a better agreement. That is despicable.
Eddie,
DeleteI was referring to rhs making jokes in a shiur to young dati soldiers/students about killing the pm. he had to cut short his trip bec the police in Israel wanted to arrest him. Someone in his position should never be making light of this especially since it was just fresh and somebody was murdered. In all my years I never heard the satmar rebbe z'l who was as anti zionist as you can get joke about a fellow jew getting murdered!
1) unfortunately this is the price of when you have a democratic country that is not run by torah principles. his party was in control and they were elected. (i personally thought his decisions were terrible). but you can not just take the law into your own hand and kill someone because you don't like their policies. If not then you will have total chaos and a breakdown of society.
2) two wrongs don't make a right! however, I never saw outright incitement. All they did was vote with labor.
3)I have heard of the video and nothing would surprise me in the world we live in today.
Nevertheless, I digress, the point I was trying to make in the earlier post was that James is trying to distort the fact that rhs has called for violence. This is a big problem. Think about if you sent your kid to YU, he listens to rhs and decided he is doing g-d' s will bec rhs said its ok to beat someone up. Next thing you know your kid is caught and your kid is sitting in jail facing 10-20 for assault etc... We live in America and we need to respect the laws, you can not call out in front of young people that its ok to go out and take matters into your own hands. Its extremely reckless and irresponsible. Something is really wrong with the YU institution for allowing this. For YU to claim they are more cultured bec. they learn the arts and sciences, they are definitely not showing it by promoting violence. It seems more like barbarism to me! While I am sure there are good people within the YU institution, these other elements are quite frankly dangerous extremists and something should be done before someone ends up getting killed g-d forbid!
Having lived in the lovely Jewish community of Kemp Mill, Silver Spring, I am familiar with the case, and the strong support from the local Orthodox rabbinate to the wife denied a get in this case. I am shocked at your support for this man, and the publication of sensitive personal papers that do nothing to change the simple fact that Friedman denies his ex-wife (civil courts) a get. I have nothing more to say on this matter.
ReplyDeleteAlan Oslick, Mérida, Yucatán
What are you doing in Yacatan if you don't mind me asking.
Deletethe strong support and the first rally was even though the only bais din that ever heard the case said that there are no grounds for protesting against aharon. the local community have no interest in halacha nor din. in fact one of the leaders of the protests is a lady who remarried even though the bais din in yerushlayim declared her an ashes ish. but thats only halacha. doesnt mean much i guess
DeleteAnother fluff comment about silver spring!
DeleteWhile I am sure that there are good people that live there, there are many who are not. In 2010 when the first ora rally was held, the silver spring beis din said that there should be no protests and that they should go back to the baltimore beis din because they have no jurisdiction since she started with the baltimore beis din first.
What did a bunch of your "lovely" community hotshots do? they sent a letter with tens of signators demanding that the silver spring beis din take the case and that they are going to protest anyway because they felt it was right. That was a chutzpah and clear violation of halachah at that time. The reality is your community is one that is extremely modern and left leaning. I do not envy your rabbis because they are under tremendous stress to keep their conservodox/modern orthodox congregants satisfied, unfortunately at times at the expense of others.
The fact is very few people in silver spring think they know the details because they heard lies and misinformation through ora's pr campaign or relatives of the epsteins. Just because aharon took the high road till now and did not make a media circus frenzy at the expense of his child as tamar has done, does not make him the guilty party.
If you are going to make statements about your community you should disclose everything and explain why there is "strong rabbinic support" i.e. ora threatening the rabbis with harassment if they dont go along with them etc.
You miss the point, publishing those sensitive documents was extremely important because until now ora and crew were portraying her as an agunah and as the victim while in fact this proves that she is not an agunah but rather a moredes. Whether you like it or not a moredes is not entitled to a get, especially if she played so dirty like the epsteins have by running off with their child and continually denying aharon a meaningful relationship. Something is fundamentally wrong with those who encourage this behavior of using children as tools.
This proves nothing , any person who marries an abuser thinks that they are fine . It's then a process to when they recognize the persons true self , and Accepts that reality .
Deleteavf,
DeleteOnce again you crawled out from under your rock and continuing your false accusation. R' eidensohn has already exposed your "inconsistincies" and misinformation. Tamars notes have already proven that Aharon is a good man and her testimony before court as well has proven that you are in fact a liar.
If you want to talk about real abuse. having your ex beat up or kidnapping a child and denying the father a relationship, thats real abuse!!
Get a life already.
The wife, Tamar, is not entitled to a Get under Halacha. And no Beis Din has found otherwise. A husband is not required to give a Get anytime a wife wants one.
ReplyDelete"The wife, Tamar, is not entitled to a Get under Halacha."
DeleteI think this is a very strange statement. What do you mean "is not entitled to a Get under Halacha".
If a woman wants to divorce and moves out of the conjugal home and after a period of half a year or a year cannot be convinced to move back, I would say that the marriage is dead. In such a case, withholding a get is pure cruelty and thus not compatible with torah. Furthermore, it fulfills the criteria of putting a stumbling block in front of a blind person (since she might start a new relationship without a get), and therefore is contrary to halacha.
you might argue about the waiting period - in Swiss law it used to be four years when one party did not agree to the divorce - but I definitely do not think that halacha covers withholding a get (indefinitely) as conform to halacha and torah.
You could argue about the waiting period - in swiss law it used to be a maximum of four years.
blind,
Deletehave a problem with that ? dovids is right and it is a gemara! Don't you think if the gemara thought it would be a stumbling block then they would have addressed it?
Todays generation has been so badly affected by secular culture. In a case where there are reasonable grounds as a phsyical danger to a wife/husband is valid reason for divorce and halachah requires it! Otherwise it is not so simple to just walk out of a marriage.
I know that ora doesn't believe in this concept but the torah has made it clear, its called moredes and based upon tamars own admission and actions she definitely falls under that category! The only one placing the stumbling block is herself!
It's pretty simple Halacha. A wife cannot get divorced simply because she wants to. Even if she runs away from her husband for any amount of time. If there are no Halachic grounds, as determined by Beis Din, to demand a Get, she cannot demand one. And if she does demand one, her husband can halachicly decline to provide one.
Deletewhen the discussion has turned to yigal amir, you know that it has run its course long ago.
ReplyDeleteSomething is very fishy with tzaddok and his postings. He claims on his blog he is from New Jersey yet he just wrote in one of the comments he lived in Philli. Which one is it?
ReplyDeleteI find it quite odd that someone who claims to be in yeshivah for kabbalah and who lives thousands of mile away would spend some much time on the internet making long distance phone calls and commenting non stop. This is fair to suspect that he is paid by the ora / epsteins to spread misinformation or is he just not a well person.
Which normal person would do this if they weren't getting paid?
Who said he is a normal person? I think he got sucked into this discussion by some sort of intellectual curiosity or pleasure in discussing those kinds of themes, and now his own intellectual curiosity does not allow him to let it be...
DeleteMarvin I am from Delaware but lived in VA. Is that also fishy?
DeleteBorn in NJ, grew up in NJ, graduated HS in NJ. Did Uni in Philly(Temple) worked in Philly(actually on the Mainline not in Philly proper). Lie exploded, moved back to NJ.
DeleteWhich normal person would do this if they weren't getting paid? One who is bored during Bein HaZmanin(don't worry only 10 days left). Who loves the truth and thinks its an aweful chillul hashem to slander another Jew(especially since the Azrizal, and two of my Rabbanim, Rav Kaduri ZTzUK"L and Rav Shalom Heddayya ZTzUK"L always said that it was a lack of achdut and an abundance of sinat chinam that has kept us in exile so long).
Marvin,
DeleteRabbi Tzadok uses his real name. You can go to Israel, walk into his yeshiva and find him. There is nothing fishy about that.
Who are you?
James,
DeleteHe should change his name to aspiring batlan or liar. A true ben torah/kabbalist who is delving into the deep secrets of the torah would not be spending time on the internet ever. Yet alone falsely accussing and slandering r' eidenson berabim!!! Didn't chacham ovadiah yosef say that bein hazemanim is cancelled this summer bec of the gezeriah from the medina?
Sorry to say if he is in Yeshivah its pretty embarrassing that he could not even get simple pshat right (in a previous post that he made). Maybe if he spent more time learning and less time casuing sinas chinam he wouldnt be making a fool of himself for the whole world to see!!!
I must admit to being disappointed with Rabbi Eidensohn's approach to this issue. In previous posts, I suggested that he and/or his brother ring Rav Schachter to discuss the halachic issues which were bothering them. R' Schachter is very approachable and will surely engage in any Milchamto Shel Torah. Yes, he may not be able to discuss the specifics of this particular case. For some reason, unless I have missed it, Rabbi Eidensohn seems to have not wanted to pick up the phone and RING R' Schachter. If I had such an grave issue, I wouldn't hesitate to do likewise.
ReplyDeletePerhaps similarly, Rabbi Tzadok has suggested that Rabbi Eidensohn RING the police. Again, this appears not to have happened. Why?
I have trouble understanding such an attitude. When people are in Olam HaEmes, yes, we have problems working out what they said/meant. Here, we have two examples where direct contact is available, so why not do it !?!?
Perhaps similarly, Rabbi Tzadok has suggested that Rabbi Eidensohn RING the police. Again, this appears not to have happened. Why?
DeleteSeveral times. Even provided him with the phone numbers and police contacts.
To YU Apikorus and Betzalel
ReplyDeleteAre you joking. Isn't this supposed to be a Torah blog, a Daas Torah blog no less. Since when does the Torah state in its rules of evidence that it is NOT up to the accuser to prove that what he's claiming actually happened, but rather that the accused needs to prove that it didn't happen. Are you guys from another planet? Is this where your Talmud study brings you.
A number of a claim that goes nowhere and cannot be verified, and is in fact is denied by the police department is no proof. I would expect my fourth grade daughter to understand that.
And RDE feels no responsibility to verify the divisive claims he promotes on his site. I would consider such a rabbi posul for a beis din--demonstrating, as he has, his shameless unconcern for facts and truth and blogging about unverified claims.
Just because r' eidensohn did not reveal all his sources does not mean he did not properly investigate.
Deleteas for you wanting proof there was an incident, a reporter with the washigton jewish week confirmed there was in fact an incident.
http://washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=17728
You owe r' eidensohn an apology!
Dan l'khaf Zchus.
ReplyDeleteI just noticed the RDE has not commented on this blog since Aug 1. I am hoping that he is on vacation and left the blog under someone else's supervision (perhaps his brother). I am hoping that is true. And that the responsibility (halachic and legal) of posting and not removing this unverified claim is not actually his doing.
a reporter confirmed there was an incident with the police.
Deletehttp://washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=17728
I think you owe r' eidensohn an apology!!
No Joke,
ReplyDeleteThere is no accused here. This isn't a bais din or a court. It's a blog. Daas Torah provided a police number. I think that's as much proof as you're going to get. If you think he's making this story up, then investigate yourself whether that police number corresponds to what he claims happened.
I have no reason to doubt it. Stuff like this happens. It doesn't mean that the parties involved in this case had anything to do with it. But to claim Daas Torah is lying about it is ridiculous.
For those of you that have been calling on RDE to take down this post and have stated that this never happened take a look http://washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=17728
ReplyDelete"A spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department said the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there, but we are unable to release it."
There are a few posters who owe RDE an apology.
Not really. The article admits that it took it's information from this blog and David Eidensohn. Considering the number of retractions that they have already made on this case I see no reason to trust them more than I do this blog.
DeleteTzadduki, you have been caught lying again red-handed. YOu have no shame!
DeleteYour reading comprehension is terrible. Read the article it says that it took information from daas torah about the details of the incident. However,The PAPER spoke to the police and called up the epsteins. Its funny how the epsteins have no comment about this???? do I hear crickets anybody??
Lie #1- You claimed the police said the incident didnt occur yet the reporter who spoke to the police confirmed otherwise
Lie# 2- You claimed if a crime is on the blotter then it didnt happen, yet the police confirmed to the reporter that there was an incident.
Lie # 3 - your claim that the lawyers on the court documents were not the same as earlier yet it turns out the lawyers were partners from their respective firms.
Tzaddok, you are running out of straws to grasp. As it was stated before you are not a lawyer nor an expert. Throwing out pieces of information that you googeled does not make you look smart. A word of advice before making an idiot of yourself on the web, maybe speak to reputable experts and do proper homework before making wild accusations!
Be a man for once in your life and apologize. You made statements and accusations against r' eidenson that were proven to be wrong! Are you going to say now that the Washington Jewish week made this up too?
To make such blatant lies about police policy and your encounters with the police about their protocol or to continually throw out misinformation. One would have to assume that Marvin was right that you are a paid troll from the epsteins!!
Rabbi Michael Tzadok,
ReplyDeleteDaas Torah and the Jewish Week, an old reputable newspaper in DC, claims that a man was assaulted. The police department said the claim is under investigation. This stuff happens all the time. What is so incredible about this claim that you disbelieve it?
Daas Torah never claimed the assault had anything to do with the get, although you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that it probably wasn't a random assault. And Daas Torah never even claimed that the parties involved had anything to do with the assault. It might have been guys who thought they were doing a great service to the Jewish community by assaulting the man.
So what is your beef with Daas Torah?
Jewish Week rely on the DT story, and 2 anonymous callers. if I wanted to make up a story, eg that my brother in law is Moshiach, I would first write in on my blog, then get a couple of indoctrinated fools to call the Jewish paper, and refer them to my website. Then, I would use the Jewish Week report to verify that my bro-in law is Moshiach.
ReplyDeleteThis is how cults begin/began.
Police are looking into the claim, that doesn't mean it has happened. If you report a UFO landed in your yeshiva, the police might look into it, but that doesn't prove it happened.
My criticism of R Tzadok, was that he jumped too soon to say emphatically it didn't happen. It may well have happened, but so far the evidence is circular.
Genius, reread the article - the police said that there was a report there and they are not releasing it! If it didnt happen then there would be nothing to investigate and the report would be released!!!
DeleteEven after the police confirmed that they are investigating this incident Tzodoki still claims that it did not happen. Tzodoki either you are a complete fool or you are being paid to put forth your lies.
ReplyDeleteHow the tzadok slanders his opponents
ReplyDeleteThis is how tzadok responded to stan and i quote directly from the daas torah
"Rabbi Michael TzadokJune 28, 2012 7:06 PM
On your own blog (alleging that this is stan's blog) you said about called Sephardim poor, ignorant and very very primitive.(also a comment you put through here). Yet somehow you think that is not racist? Do the guys in white jackets treat you nice and make sure you get plenty of sunlight between your meds? They obviously allow you internet access. Do they have kosher kitchen there in the asylum or is the food catered in special for you?"
Perhaps it is Tzadok who deserves to be in an asylum? I am sure that there are many out there who believe this. I doubt that DE will allow the posting even though he allowed his former great friend whom he allowed for a while to dominate his blog to post this about Stan.
Stanley. Shabbetai Zvi's marketing agent, Nathan of Gaza managed to get 100 signatures that Zvi was the moshiach. these were prominent rabbonim, including the TAZ's son in law. That is 98 more than the anonymous people who called the Jewish Week. One of the people in contact with the Week was R' Eidensohn (David).
DeleteLubavitch mimicked this trick, and got 100 signatures that their rebbe was b'Chizkat Moshiach. Again some prominent rabbonim amongst them, including Mordechai Eliyahu, and I think also R' Kadduri.
So yes, maybe this event took place, I cannot deny or confirm it, but do not let your imagination run wild, until Police confirm what the report was.
Suzanne Pollak of the Washington Jewish Week confirmed with a spokeswoman for the Lower Merion police department that the matter "was under investigation. There is a report out there"
ReplyDeleteFiling a false police report is a criminal offense. An assault clearly took place on Tamar's home against Ahron. Now the cops are investigating who the assailants are, and how they are affiliated with Tamar and Mr. Stern from ORA.
Drudge: "Filing a false police report is a criminal offense. [Therefore ] => An assault clearly took place on Tamar's home against Ahron."
ReplyDeleteSorry mate, but your logic is incorrect. Like I said earlier, any alleged incident that is reported to the police must be investigated. Filing a report to the Police does not ipso facto make that report correct.
Tom Walsh the public Information Officer for the Township of Lower
ReplyDeleteMerion in PA just told me the following: On July 29 at 6 PM a male was
assaulted on Linden Lane in Lower Merion Township also known as Bala
Cynwyd a Welsh name. The victim dropped off a family member and then was
confronted by three individuals who pushed and struck him. Glasses were
broken during encounter. Victim was able to flee. The actors were three
white males and one was wearing a mask.
End quote.
Victim's name was not released. Mr. Walsh told me that he never told
anybody anything about the FBI not being involved. He didn't say if it
was but he did not tell anyone it was not. He was patient and allowed me
to write down his words above and read them back to him.
Facts matter not when you are dealing with Ora. According to them and i quote their rabbi, even threats of death are fine - quoting the famous response of Rabi Akivah Eiger.
ReplyDeleteAs Albert Einstein said, if you don't like the facts invent them.
What the Ora "chevra' including their rabbi forget is what rabi akivah eiger says in general about monetary gains in arko'oys which have no basis in halochoh is that a woman who is mekudeshes with such monies is not mekudeshes because it is stolen money.
When was the last time Ora who try to fool you they and their rabbi believe in halocho protested a woman who went to arko'oys. (Not directly relevant here).
Stan, do you have evidence that the alleged assault on Mr Epstein was perpetrated by ORA/their rabbi?
ReplyDeleteStan, why do you learn your own Hekesh to ORA and/or R' Schachter?
ReplyDeleteAssuming this took place, isn't there an Issur to make such statements without any shred of evidence that they were involved? Who is your Posek, or don't you consult him?
I am following the American way which is the law option offered by the BDA in violation of the shulchan oruch.
ReplyDeleteIt is called very strong circumstantial evidence. You condone a beating basically even call for one and then it happens.
Rav Gestetner already put the chief rabbi of MO r' schachter in cheirem and quoted the steipler than anyone who always favors a woman in a dispute simply because she is a woman is suspected of going to zonos. This is who the cheif rabbi of the MOs is. No further comment on people who are oykere the Torah is needed. Not sure if your protector daas torah will let comment through. he is always covering up for the defense of rabbi schachter insisting that he be addressed with respect that is anappropriate.
Hmmmm.
DeleteIn the shiur referenced above, Rav Schachter specifically says that we CAN NOT always favor the man or the woman.
Also, the MO have no chief rabbi. Rav Schachter is a leading posek but certainly not the chief rabbi.
I would rather suspect someone who exaggerates with tzniut of being a hypocrite and entertaining illicit sex affairs (see tropper, and many others)
DeleteStan, are you being Judge , jury, and executioner, and all based on an incident which has not yet been fully investigated by the Police?
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that this alleged incident, is being used as a springboard for ideological attacks on take your pick.
It is also interesting that R Kamenetsky, who is not MO, but is R'Y of major Litvish yeshiva in the USA, and is in the Moetzet HaGedolim, is somehow immune from your attack. is it because you have unequal weights and measures?
Dear DT.
ReplyDeleteI have a question regarding the original post, as opposed to the many comments here.
This post attacks R Shachter. R' Shachter quotes the Gemara. The Gemara that he quotes gives cases where beating up someone is recommended. Is your problem with the Gemara itself? Or do you claim the RHS is misquoting it? Or is he in your opinion applying it to a case where it is unwarranted?
Rabbi Schachter quotes a gemara dealing with a former slave who continues to live with a maidservant, whom the gemera says should be beaten and effectively says that the same applies to Aharon. That gemara does not speak about a man who refuses to give a get.
Delete"Rav Gestetner already put the chief rabbi of MO r' schachter in cheirem and quoted the steipler than anyone who always favors a woman in a dispute simply because she is a woman is suspected of going to zonos" @ Stan
ReplyDeletea) If Stam Stan had bothered tolisten tot he shiur that is linked above, he will notice that Rav Shachter doe snot always favour the woman, and says many times it is the man who is wrong.
b) The haredi zonos cat is out of the bag. No longer can Haredi world preach about how their world view leads to purity, and the modern one is zonus. Haredi world is implicated in very creative zonus, and also criminal acts, of sodomy; homosexuality; rape; child molestation, pimping. In fact, every time the haredi world makes a noise about sexual purity it has been proven to be a cover for debased and criminal arayos.
item: EJF - which purported to have highest standards of geirut, such that a Dayan who wears cologne or reads science is possul. Thsi ended up to be a prostitution racket run by HaRav Hagaon Leib Tropper, musmach of rav Shach and R' Zholty. Pimping his shiksa geirus candidates to his glatt kosher yeshiva chevra, and exchanging halachic documents (overseen by Eisenstein - blower of the Vaad trumpet) for illicit prostitution by halachic barter.
item: the geula Mikve: Purportedly a purifying house where the Edah collect their alms , and do nto recognize the NIS as a currency so they use dolalrs or Syrian pounds. In fact, this was uncovered by one man who walked in the ways of Hashem (amongst many who do not). R' Rosenberg, the mikveh specialist called this place a gay bath. Homosexual acts, child molestation, sodomy, acts which even a secularist would be sickened by. These regular acts of gomorroh are widespread in that sick world that people like Stan preach to the world.
item: Ohel Soro Imenu. yes, a website that advertised geirut (which if RDE had seen an MO version, he woudl automatically call it proselytisation). In fact, it was run by a mamzer Dayan, who was a convicted rapist, and was arrested for his part in the child molestation scandal in Nahlaot. This "geirus" scam, orcehstrated by Eisenstein, it has been alleged by several survivors, was also a forced prostitution racket by the Dayanim running it to procure and supply shiksa meat to filthy haredi perverts. Apparently, the extra strictures in the haredi giur process are initiation by rape, as long as the rapist is part of the Chevra.
now, I am not MO, and such sick behaviour also occurs in MO and RZ worlds.
Item: Lanner - say no more, he was perhaps the archeype pervert
Item: Sultanovitch ~ a talmid of R' Zvi Y. Kook, who commited gay acts with his male students. A senior rav in Mercaz HaRav. His complainants were threatened with NO Shidduch, and No JOb. A punishment for being gayly molested.
item: Motti Elon - RY of Yeshivat HaKotel - a gay molestor who has the audacity to carry out these acts while overlooking the Kotel.
So, please do not talk about znus. that game is over.
Eddie my opinion of the Agudah is well known it is at best a totally irrelevant organization led by the sons of the previous generation's gedolim who by and large should be plumbers except for possibly R Dovid. I hold nothing of the corrupt Agudah. Theyu condone arko'oys even organizing seminars on how to fight custody cases in arko'oys. They don't even say it is preferable to be in bais din letalone that it is completely ossur to be in arko'oys. They have employees who are indirectly associated with arko'oys and they know full well about it but do not care at all.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Eddie is like all MOs he has been taught not to think. Does he think the Steipler's remark does not apply to a corrupt charedi dayan who always favors women?
Instead he goes into a very long rant and tirade completely irrelevant to anything.
As for his laughable remark that his chief Rabbi does not always favor women because that is what he pontificates, I judge people by their actions not their words.
Ask Meir Kin if putting a siruv on someone whose wife is in arko'oys and who offered her a valid bais din but instead gets slapped with a siruv without even a single hazmonah being sent shows just how laughable your claim is. This is a man who always favors women, who favors arko'oys over bais din and a man who should be kept away from gittin and psak in general for the rest of his life.
Rabbi Tzadok,
ReplyDeletePart of your claim as to why this whole thing must be made up is your claim on your blog that any get given as a result of a beating in the case would not be valid. Has Rabbi Kamenetsky or any of the other rabbonim inciting against Aharon ever said that? Have you asked any of them?
Have you asked Rabbi Brisman of the Philadelphia Beis Din (whom you have claimed to be in contact with) whether he would respect such a get?
http://washingtonjewishweek.com/arrested-rabbi-has-tie-to-area-jewish-divorce-case/
ReplyDeleteTamar Epstein's lawyer continues to mislead (to put it charitably) in new Washington Jewish Week article:
Epstein’s attorney, Fredric Goldfein, gave an emphatic “no” when asked if Epstein had hired anyone to beat Friedman, adding he wasn’t even sure Friedman’s allegations “amounted to anything.”
Jewish fathers who are at risk of abductions like above should apply for a CCW ,and learn to shoot. This is harder in NJ and NY area but is fine in PA. Dont become a victim as Rabbi Kahane said every Jew a .22 better a 9mm or a .45.
ReplyDeleteAbout time! ברוך השם! Maybe now the ציבור will begin to understand what's happening in this outrageous פרשה. All the גרויסע מאן דאמרים who refuse to question RSK's actions, follow him blindly even when he is עוקר דת, and sit back silently as an אשת איש "remarries" without a גט, all with RSK's הכשר שטעמפל,
ReplyDeleteרחמנא לישזבן!!!
Tamar Epstein's lawyer Fredric Goldfein said in court that Mr. Mendel Epstein instructed her family to pay him $60,000 as part of his attempt to secure her divorce.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2015/03/lakewood_rabbi_wanted_60k_to_get_divorce_for_woman.html
In case you missed it, the (Tamar) Epstein's lawyer claims that he thought (Mendel) Epstein would just use his $60,000 fee to bribe Friedman. Sounds laughable to me, but who knows.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2015/03/lakewood_rabbi_wanted_60k_to_get_divorce_for_woman.html