I once had to deal with a Rabbi Gestetner in Monsey. I can't begin to tell you how close-minded, shrill, and obnoxious he was. it really left me sick to my stomach.
That may have been your experience, however there are two things: 1) As a Jew you are required to Dan L'Kaf zecut and say to yourself that he was probably having a bad day. 2) If you are incapable of doing the first, you should not publish such attacks on any Jew, let alone a Gadol.
Arguing against his opinions is one thing, attacking the Rav himself... that is beyond the pale.
Please enlighten use, but bear in mind that it it remains an ad hominem attack which seeks to undermine an argument by attacking (the totally irrelevant) person who made it. I say presuming I'm not a fan of the position being argued.
Personally, I try to avoid denigration of my barei plugta even when I think it warranted, as to do so usually generates more heat than light. However, one need only read the sha'ar blatt & "Hisnatzlus" HaMechaber" of this treatise to perceive that Rabbi Gestetner's approach is to utterly and totally deprecate, denigrate and vilify his barei plugta. I therefore fully and completely understand someone who b'midda she'madud hu madad zeh lo.
yosef gavriel, don't judge a book by its cover, talmidy chachmim say rabbi gestetners birur is very srong, this kunteres was mailed to 3000 rabonim worldwide, nobody was able to catch him with any falsification, if you think you can, go ahead but stop throwing trash its not going to get you anywhere
I'm not judging the book. That is not the subject of this conversation. The subject of this conversation is whether a mevazeh talmidei chachamim such as Rabbi Gestetner should nevertheless not be treated with bizayon, or whether b'middah she'odom modeid modedim lo.
That being said, I doubt that a person who fits one of the categories of "apikores" will enjoy much siyata d'shmaya in his Talmudic ramblings. If you would like to reiterate some his points that seem convincing to you, I will be happy to undertake to disprove them.
yoseg gavriel, you still didn't prove that if one talmid chachem is mevazeh another t.ch. [especially for the reason that he is an "oiker hadass"], an "amm h'aretz" like you can be mevazhe that talmid chacham. [the chsam sofer was mevazeh rav chariner on this ground].
oh personal attacks against the gedol hador of reshoim schlachter now those are condemned but its free for all against somebody who disagrees with the modernish krumkeit and stand up against it.
of course you found him narrow minded - he refused to rewrite shulchan oruch to your liking. your man is schlachter or gedaliah swartz or the great goan briyde whom r dovid eidensohn wiped the floor with.
i have little doubt you would say the same thing chas ve'sholom against other gedolim like the steipler, rav elyashiv, the brisker rov who didn't make small talk and give yu shiurim during the super bowl.
To Dovy sorry for your bad experience, but I had a very good experience with him as he appeared very knowledgeable in these matters, and is one of the few remaining Rabbonim today other than the Eidensohn brothers and Rabbi Abraham that have the guts to stand up to the vicious Torah-twisting feminists that exist today!
Maybe it was his son I spoke to? LORD, this fellow had a hair din in Rockland County. I called to advocate for an Agunah. 5 years later, I still shake with anger and disgust at the person's way of talking and total lack of compassion.
if I am mistaken, I apologize to Rabbi G. Howeverits his responsibility to make sure that his phone is not answered by some hot-headed Satmar-type who hasn't a clue re how to deal with people.
I once had to deal with a Rabbi Gestetner in Monsey. I can't begin to tell you how close-minded, shrill, and obnoxious he was. it really left me sick to my stomach.
ReplyDeleteI see no possible heter for this.
DeleteDovy,
DeleteThat may have been your experience, however there are two things:
1) As a Jew you are required to Dan L'Kaf zecut and say to yourself that he was probably having a bad day.
2) If you are incapable of doing the first, you should not publish such attacks on any Jew, let alone a Gadol.
Arguing against his opinions is one thing, attacking the Rav himself... that is beyond the pale.
I do.
Delete"I do"
DeletePlease enlighten use, but bear in mind that it it remains an ad hominem attack which seeks to undermine an argument by attacking (the totally irrelevant) person who made it. I say presuming I'm not a fan of the position being argued.
Personally, I try to avoid denigration of my barei plugta even when I think it warranted, as to do so usually generates more heat than light. However, one need only read the sha'ar blatt & "Hisnatzlus" HaMechaber" of this treatise to perceive that Rabbi Gestetner's approach is to utterly and totally deprecate, denigrate and vilify his barei plugta. I therefore fully and completely understand someone who b'midda she'madud hu madad zeh lo.
Deleteyosef gavriel, don't judge a book by its cover, talmidy chachmim say rabbi gestetners birur is very srong, this kunteres was mailed to 3000 rabonim worldwide, nobody was able to catch him with any falsification, if you think you can, go ahead but stop throwing trash its not going to get you anywhere
DeleteObserver:
DeleteI'm not judging the book. That is not the subject of this conversation. The subject of this conversation is whether a mevazeh talmidei chachamim such as Rabbi Gestetner should nevertheless not be treated with bizayon, or whether b'middah she'odom modeid modedim lo.
That being said, I doubt that a person who fits one of the categories of "apikores" will enjoy much siyata d'shmaya in his Talmudic ramblings. If you would like to reiterate some his points that seem convincing to you, I will be happy to undertake to disprove them.
yoseg gavriel, you still didn't prove that if one talmid chachem is mevazeh another t.ch. [especially for the reason that he is an "oiker hadass"], an "amm h'aretz" like you can be mevazhe that talmid chacham. [the chsam sofer was mevazeh rav chariner on this ground].
Deleteoh personal attacks against the gedol hador of reshoim schlachter now those are condemned but its free for all against somebody who disagrees with the modernish krumkeit and stand up against it.
ReplyDeleteof course you found him narrow minded - he refused to rewrite shulchan oruch to your liking. your man is schlachter or gedaliah swartz or the great goan briyde whom r dovid eidensohn wiped the floor with.
i have little doubt you would say the same thing chas ve'sholom against other gedolim like the steipler, rav elyashiv, the brisker rov who didn't make small talk and give yu shiurim during the super bowl.
To Dovy
ReplyDeletesorry for your bad experience, but I had a very good experience with him as he appeared very knowledgeable in these matters, and is one of the few remaining Rabbonim today other than the Eidensohn brothers and Rabbi Abraham that have the guts to stand up to the vicious Torah-twisting feminists that exist today!
Maybe it was his son I spoke to? LORD, this fellow had a hair din in Rockland County. I called to advocate for an Agunah. 5 years later, I still shake with anger and disgust at the person's way of talking and total lack of compassion.
ReplyDeleteooops.. 'LORD' should be 'IIRC' and 'hair' should be 'Bais'
ReplyDeleteif I am mistaken, I apologize to Rabbi G. Howeverits his responsibility to make sure that his phone is not answered by some hot-headed Satmar-type who hasn't a clue re how to deal with people.
ReplyDeletedovy i guess when you or a relative in sick in the hospital you stay away from satmar type bikkur cholim. get lost you antisemite.
ReplyDelete