According to Dr. Benjamin Brown, of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, criticism of the regulations laid down by the late Rabbi Israel Alter (also known as the Beis Yisroel ), who led Gur from 1948 to 1977, goes back as far as the 1960s. Among the critics was Rabbi Yaakov Yisrael Kanievsky (1899-1985 ), known as the Steipler. Kanievsy was the brother-in-law of the world-renowned rabbinical authority Rabbi Avraham Yeshaya Karelitz (the "Hazon Ish," who lived 1878-1953 ) and the father of Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, one of the leading rabbinical authorities in Bnei Brak today.
The Steipler wrote that one should not necessarily act according to the sect's strict regulations, which he said mainly cause suffering to women. To this day his views are studied in instruction sessions for bridegrooms in the Lithuanian (non-Hasidic ) ultra-Orthodox community, who are encouraged not to refrain from sexual relations. Among other things, the Steipler wrote: "It is known that a woman's main hope in her world is to have a husband who loves her ... but heaven forfend that he observe the measure of prishut, whereby he hurts his wife."
The Steipler wrote that one should not necessarily act according to the sect's strict regulations, which he said mainly cause suffering to women. To this day his views are studied in instruction sessions for bridegrooms in the Lithuanian (non-Hasidic ) ultra-Orthodox community, who are encouraged not to refrain from sexual relations. Among other things, the Steipler wrote: "It is known that a woman's main hope in her world is to have a husband who loves her ... but heaven forfend that he observe the measure of prishut, whereby he hurts his wife."
The Steipler Gaon zt'l, certainly no modernist, has a much more grounded view of things. In the comments on the first part of the report we discussed the Rambam's Moreh, and its specific outlook. I just remembered an interesting Hiddush of the Rambam, that is that a man's love for his wife is a precursor for his love of Hashem, hence suppressing this can be detrimental (my conclusion, not his).
ReplyDeleteEddie said...
ReplyDeleteI just remembered an interesting Hiddush of the Rambam, that is that a man's love for his wife is a precursor for his love of Hashem, hence suppressing this can be detrimental (my conclusion, not his).
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Actually this is not an accurate description of the Rambam.
Rather he uses a man's love for a woman as a description of what man's love for G-d should be. Thus your conclusion is also wrong.
(8) רמב"ם יד החזקה הלכות תשובה פרק י
(ג) וכיצד היא האהבה הראויה הוא שיאהב את ה' אהבה גדולה יתירה עזה מאוד עד שתהא נפשו קשורה באהבת ה' ונמצא שוגה בה תמיד כאלו חולה חולי האהבה שאין דעתו פנויה מאהבת אותה אשה והוא שוגה בה תמיד בין בשבתו בין בקומו בין בשעה שהוא אוכל ושותה יתר מזה תהיה אהבת ה' בלב אוהביו שוגים בה תמיד כמו שצונו בכל לבבך ובכל נפשך והוא ששלמה אמר דרך משל כי חולת אהבה אני וכל שיר השירים משל הוא לענין זה:
So, could a man love Hashem, when he is not allowed to fully love his wife? Rather, if at some level he must feel disgust at his wife, then what is the point of using this moshul?
ReplyDeleteBy digust, I refer to the hatred which is engendered by the above article; by the midrashic quote of seeing a woman as a putrid thing full of blood, etc. If marital relations are to be downgraded as a purely biological function, then there will not really be the kind of Love that Rambam is describing here! perhaps there is a "stirah" int he the Rambam itself?
Eddie said...
ReplyDeleteSo, could a man love Hashem, when he is not allowed to fully love his wife? Rather, if at some level he must feel disgust at his wife, then what is the point of using this moshul?
By digust, I refer to the hatred which is engendered by the above article; by the midrashic quote of seeing a woman as a putrid thing full of blood, etc. If marital relations are to be downgraded as a purely biological function, then there will not really be the kind of Love that Rambam is describing here! perhaps there is a "stirah" int he the Rambam itself?
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First of all the negative statement about women is not a medrash but a gemora (Shabbos 152a) that a woman is like a pitcher full of fifth and her mouth is full of blood.
Secondly The Rambam is assuming that it is natural to love a woman but that one needs to moderate that love. The Gur chassidim are doing their best to prevent experiencing love for a woman.
Thirdly the holiness of love is referred to in Igros Kodosh and is a kabbalistic idea which is cited by the Sheloh. that could be understood the way you are trying to explain the Rambam.
The Rambam had a very negative view of sex and writes (no source with me) that man should limit his indulgence as much as possible. His views are taken straight from Aristotle who viewed touch as the most shameful sense.
ReplyDelete"First of all the negative statement about women is not a medrash but a gemora (Shabbos 152a) that a woman is like a pitcher full of fifth and her mouth is full of blood."
ReplyDeleteThat gemara isn't for most normal people. It's for sex maniacs. There is the "golden mean", the middle-road. Gemaras like the above simply keep one in the center. But if one is already leading a life of semi-abstinence (and thus is not fulfilling his Torah obligations to his wife) this gemara has nothing to offer- and is in fact harmful.
I can't stand Tamar Rotem. From the style of her articles, you'd think her job was Chareidi (having) affairs correspondent.
ReplyDeleteShe is also the author of the article about the gedolim who banned Slifkin called "The Rabbi Who Wrestles With Crocodiles" Whatever strenths she may have, basic decency ain't one of 'em.