[...] Like all communities, the Orthodox Jewish one is comprised of many layers. In July 2010, Modern Orthodox rabbis around the country signed a groundbreaking Statement of Principles in "regard to the place of Jews with a homosexual orientation" in their community. While clearly stating that the parameters of Halacha (Jewish Law) prohibit same-sex sexual intercourse, the Principles still offered a message of compassion, empathy and inclusiveness of gay and lesbian Jews within the Orthodox community. It was a huge step forward for the Jewish community.
However, many ultra-Orthodox leaders felt that these Principles were too affirming of homosexuality. So this Declaration currently making rounds will serve as their official response in regards to guiding individuals with same-sex attractions. The endorser, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, of the Talmudical Yeshiva of Philadelphia, urges all rabbis and mental health professionals to sign this Declaration, which offers modification and healing through reparative therapy as the sole option.
The full text of this secret Declaration, which has not been released to the public -- until now -- is posted below. I am releasing it here because I am certain that despite the signatures already included, plenty of other ultra-Orthodox rabbis will disagree. More importantly, this Declaration -- and these rabbis endorsing it -- will certainly cause anguish to the gay and lesbian Orthodox Jewish community, which has fought so hard for acceptance. Finally, I am certain that if reparative therapy is presented as the sole option, many individuals seeking guidance from rabbis or mental health professionals will be harmed -- indirectly by others, and perhaps even directly by harming themselves.[...]
There is an interesting paradox in declaring homosexual desire sinful and also recommending a cure. As much of a paradox as claiming the desire is inherent. In either case, one is saying there is a temptation of a different sort than the usual free-willed choice to sin. Why is recommending therapy more Torah-dik?
ReplyDeleteSecond, I was annoyed by the language of "the Torah response" and "the Torah community", claiming a monopoly on Torah or a unanimity that doesn't really exist.
In any case, Huff Post was an absurd choice of venue for this dialog.
I don't find the theological arguments provided in the document compelling enough to conclude that homosexual inclinations are reversible. Also, the declaration is not rigorous enough; e.g. the following critical inconsistency: "We emphatically reject the notion that a homosexually inclined person cannot overcome his or her inclination and desire. Behaviors are changeable."
ReplyDelete1. As Micha said, the HuffPost is a non-entity on Jewish issues. They decided on their own to write about this.
ReplyDelete2. Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, cited by the HuffPost as an "Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi", is not Ultra-Orthodox or Chareidi. No Ultra-Orthodox/Chareidi Rabbi would disagree with the general points in that so-called declaration.
3. I question the veracity of that so-called declaration itself. It is anonymous. And there is no reason to believe it actually exists or that Rav Kaminetzky approved or even ever saw it.
The document is genuine
ReplyDelete"The document is genuine"
ReplyDeleteAt least you say it is. But is it? And what does "genuine" mean? That some guy in the world "genuinely" wrote it? Or are you claiming that Rav Kaminetzky genuinely signed it, as claimed? If that is your assertion, what is your evidence?
I had someone call and confirm with the one directing the campaign regarding homosexuals - with Rav Kamenetskys backing - that the document was genuine.
ReplyDeleteI had someone call and confirm with the one directing the campaign regarding homosexuals - with Rav Kamenetskys backing - that the document was genuine.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to be a wiseguy here, but who is "the one directing the campaign regarding homosexuals"? And why is he anonymous if this is truly "genuine"? And if "the one directing the campaign regarding homosexuals" is claiming it has Rav Kaminetzky's backing, why would you have expected him to claim anything other than that it has RSK's backing when he was called? Sure he claims it does, but who is to say this anonymous fellows claim is at all true? And why wasn't it confirmed directly with Rav Kaminetzky -- he is easily reachable via telephone.
David why don't you call him up since you are the one who is so concerned and "he is easily reachable via telephone."
ReplyDeleteDaas, even putting aside calling RSK, that doesn't answer any of the many questions made before suggesting Rav Shmuel be called.
ReplyDelete"David said...
ReplyDelete2. Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, cited by the HuffPost as an "Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi", is not Ultra-Orthodox or Chareidi. No Ultra-Orthodox/Chareidi Rabbi would disagree with the general points in that so-called declaration."
R. Rapoport is a Lubavitcher. מין בפני עצמו. He also has been/is on the faculty of the left wing Yeshivat Chovevei Torah, of Rabbi Avi Weiss. Cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Rapoport
He wrote the book that you refer to trying to look progressive and loving, but was compromised by homosexual propaganda and accepted some of it, which taints the work (just like his book The Messiah Problem was compromised by his Lubavitch association).
Interestingly, it seems that he didn't sign the Declaration of YCT's Rabbi Nathaniel Helfgott either. So he accepts neither this nor that?
The "Torah Declaration" attempts to help Jews. But instead it hurts them because it promotes the view that people with same sex attractions can actually be "cured" or changed into people with only opposite sex attractions. It has adopted the view of reparative therapy that childhood damage causes homosexuality, and that it can be cured. The problem with that is that this is really just wishful thinking and not true. The very people that would be willing to forgo the prohibited behaviors often also would very much like to believe that they can actually "convert" not only the lifestyle but the actual attractions completely. They end up finding out years later after this approach that is not the case and are devastated. This results in some suicides and leaving the faith.
ReplyDeleteAside from all the mainstream psychiatric, psychological, social work, the World Health Organization and counselling groups even many experts among people that have been involved in "reparative therapy" mostly agree on this. It does not work in changing orientation.
Dr. Abba Borowich, an Orthodox psychiatrist who practiced reparative therapy for Orthodox homosexuals for nearly 30 years concluded that this was an ineffective course of therapy which only increased suffering among his patients and their families .
Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who is the author of Judaism and Homosexuality: An Authentic Orthodox View, has said, "I am not obligated to believe in a failed therapy because it fits my theology better."
See also
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=110642
According to those who do believe in such conversions, the sucsess rate is around 0.5%
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
The leader of Exodus the largest public group of people (several hundreds) who changed from a gay to heterosexual lifestyle admits that this does not include an end of same sex attraction for 99.9% of the group.
"There has been a change in our beliefs about orientation change focused therapy and we don’t believe it’s effective.”
Dr. Spitzer
“If people can recognize that being a homosexual is something that cannot be changed and that efforts to change are going to be disappointing and can be harmful, if that can be more widely known that would be very good. "
Another issue is that the Declaration group
led by Rabbi Kamenetsky, primarily relies on
and promotes
someone who is of bad character, who has a history of misleading people for profit, Arthur Goldberg of Jonah.
See
http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/news/national-news/547-ex-gay-is-ex-con.html
This organization has many problems
aside from a criminal history.
It can't provide any proof of change, It has relied on crackpot therapies that have included touching that is prohibited by the Torah, and it relies primarily, and in great detail on the idea that Jesus will provide the change.
I hope that in spite of what they must have experienced the twenty-five people
that have gone through the Torah Declaration path will have happy Torah lives, but those that want to be faithful to the Torah's sexual prohibitions can get help to succeed without quack therapy.
Orthodox religious therapists and rabbis have an alternative to this Declaration. See
statementofprinciplesnya.blogspot.com
Without having clear evidence that a treatment is effective you cannot in good conscience recommend an unproven treatment that can cause undo pain, suffering, and death as the signers of this declaration have done.
The many rabbis that signed this other statement are truly concerned for both the 0.5% and the 99.5% group and have not endorsed a failed therapy because it would fit better with their theology.