Zalmen Leib wrote, "a. There is nothing wrong with Rabbis visiting even the worst of the worst in prison b. Aside from that, how do you even know it is Weingarten they visited?"
A reasonable question if all you saw was the Matzav article. However Matzav was based on an article which appeared in Zeitung - I have attached the beginning of the article. Even if you don't understand Yiddish you will notice that the headline is what I placed as the subject of this post. It is clear they view him as a great man! Matzav at least had the sense of shame to delete his name - though I am not sure why they publicized this event. I am publicizing the fact that he is being glorified and that is a terrible problem. We see that people who do terrible things are still respected in some circles and thus we have a long way to go.
Matzav did not leave it out due to a sense of shame.
ReplyDeleteRather, it was to protect the privacy of he whom they call "a prominent member of the Monsey Community."
Matzav obviously had their own sources and own reasons for featuring this, given the breathless detail and video.
ReplyDeletewhat kind of sick publication is Zeitung? Is it NK or other extremist haredi psychos?
ReplyDeletewhat crimes can i commit to earn the title harav hagaon?
ReplyDeleteIs it a case of the more depraved someone is, and the sicker he behaves, breaking every Law in the Torah, that he gets such an accolade?
Really, it sounds like satire.
ReplyDeleteI ask myself whether this is a way of passing around censorship and having the news out all the same, or whether they really mean this seriously...
On Matzav blog, they did not mention his name, and yet one commentator, Chani, slipped it in...
Why did they let it slip in? Do they really think that everybody are going to believe their story? Or are they too stupid to even censor properly?
...here is a sumary of the first two colums:
ReplyDeleteThe chosheve Rosh Yeshiva YM Weingarten, honored by all the G'doley hador he had to do with, was put in jail due to a dark plot by his wife and a daughter who went off the derech (lo aleinu...). The other siblings followed her*. The great Rosh Yeshiva (YMW) did not even have a chance to defend himself. He fled to Israel and hid there, but when it turned out that the courts would not do anything against him, the daughter left the paths of Torah and went to a non-jewish court. The court condemned him to 30 years in Jail.
*now this is new, I thought at the trial all the siblings were holding diehard on the father's side
In fact, all the information is there, except for what he did... ...but I am sure the bush telephone will provide this information too....
...or will readers of "Di Zeitung" now think that anyone could be thrown in jail by evil american judges any time, we know the goyim always hated us and it was the same under the tzar????
Totally inaccurate post.They hold he did nothing,so they will tell you they are honoring an clean gaon.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could read yiddish.
ReplyDeleteCan you verify the rest of this "Chani" post, specifically that "According to Die Tzitung this visit was specifically for R. Yisroel Moshe Weingarten and a letter of support was delivered from Rav Tuvia Weiss, GAVAD of the Eida Charedis in Yerushalayim. They printed the letter in which R. Weiss spoke fondly of RYMW as his friend from Antwerp."
Thank you.
Then, would you please publish the names of all the Yshivos that these rabbi's are associated with so I make sure when they knock on my door for money (I live in Monsey) I don't give them any?
Commentator C is right.
ReplyDeleteThe Rabbonim doubtless believe that the guy is innocent.
So, this is about their judgment, not their morals.
Approximative translation, yiddish-speakers, please correct (and english-speakers too)
ReplyDeletepart 1:
Historic trip to „gai zalmavet“ to visit harav hagaon Israel Moishe Weingarten Shlita in prison in Virginia
First of them is the Gaon haadir Rav Moshe Green Shlita bcholeshet kochotav and the greatest rabbanim and askanim bring a Chizuk-Letter from ch’k the gaon haadir ha gavad of Jerusalam ir ha kodesh shlita
An extraordinary, historic trip occurred this week, Tuesday, parashat bo, when the greatest of the rabbanim and askanim, led by the Gaon hagadol Rabbi Moshe Green Shlita went down to Virgina in order to visit the famous Tofes Yeshiva and Marbitz Torah hagaon hatzadik Rabbi Israel Moshe Weingarten Shlita, who was Rosh Yeshiva Netivot Hatalmud, who was Maamid tens of Talmidim hagunim, talmidey chachamim we yirey shammaim who alas is languishing in dark towers.
The chosheve Rosh Yeshive hagaon Rabbi Yisrael Weingarten Shlita, who is Neeratz wenichbad with all Gedoley hador with whom whe had the least shayachut, be it with those who are among us alive, be it, lehavdil bein chaim le chaim Gedoley hador of yonder, like the Gaon hakadosh of Satmar zchuto yagen aleinu, the Jerusalem Rav Minchat Yitzhak, zechuto Yagen aleinu, and others, and has put up a a dor Yesharim umevorach of children zera baruch hashem letiferet Israel. As is know, alas, he was put in tower after his wife and one daughter who went astray, lo aleinu, invented a terrible alila shava about him and they decided that they have, at all cost, to get their chosheve father shlita into the dark prison for long years and this way they will succeed in leading the other siblings away from the yiddishe derech hyl”t, because they do not want any more to be under Frum hashpaa of the father, as they declared publicly in court. With the help of some civil servants, they thought of a way that he should not be able to defend himself, and sent him to prison for 30 years racha”l.
The terrible story (?) that went on for a long time, in a bechina of hareshaim kayam nigrash hashket lo yuchlu, reached the houses of the Rabanim hagaonim shlita yoshvey al Madin and beroshab harav hagwon rabbi Chaim Kreiswirth zal, av Beith din Kahal hakodesh of Antwerpen yetzav, and the Gavad of Jerusalem, shlitawho, after many birurim formulated a clear psak beit din and daas torah that the whole mockery is based on lies, and they issue terrible isur to be motzzey loez about such a chashuv person and talmid chacham atzum.
Of course, a Rosh Yeshiva is presumed innocent, and when he is anti modernist and anti zionist, that makes him even more infallible.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, if a Rav is modern in his halachic approach, and/ or zionistic, then he is a sinner, and worse than the haredi sodomite criminals!
Why do they believe he is innocent? Have any of them attended the trial, read the notes or are we dealing with the 'age-old sickness' of denial?
ReplyDeleteThey could even keep their "age-old-sickness of denial" while sitting in court and listening to the witnesses...
ReplyDeleteDetails about the case can be found here:
http://caseofisraelweingarten.blogspot.com/
Die Zeitung (a Satmar paper) ignores that Weingarten cross-examined his daughter for hours. So it is a lie to write that Weingarten didn´t have a chance to defend himself.
ReplyDeleteActually there is a 34 pages paper that addresses this issue thouroughly on the website above (caseofisraelweingarten.blogspot.com).
ReplyDeleteBottom line: About one week before the trial, he reached the conclusion that lawyers the satmar community carefully chose for him were incompetent, so he decided to defend himself.
The judge repeatedly made it clear to him that this was not a good idea, but he insisted.
The line I like best in the report:
"Once the defendent demonstrated his preferred approach to defend his case, it became clear why Mr. STutman and Mr. Rhodes ((his lawyers)) had failed the audition he gave them, and no decent lawyer would have passed it."
(p. 20)
please print the rest of the Yiddish article - thank you
ReplyDeleteto Runner: HGHTz RYMW, shlit"a, told me personally that the lawyer thought he was guilty - that is not a defense lawyer
ReplyDeleteto Richard: As smart as RYMW, shlit"a, is, he doesn't understand the culture of a court case and he didn't really have a chance
to Eddie in UK: It is well known that RYMW, shlit"a, is a bitter enemy of the NK and that is one of the reasons he is sitting vd"l
@anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI think a good lawyer might have been able to wriggle him out of this case with the following stragegy:
The facts are not disputed (he did all these atrocities), but he did not transport his daughter in order to commit them.
Because this is what he was condemned for: for transporting her with the intention of committing all those atrocities.
Of course, this might have set a precedent for further trials in Belgium and Israel, and he might have been condemned there for the facts themselves.
and of course, he would have lost the support of his community.
The judge in the paper says that "the support of the community" did more damage than help (in his view).
@anonymous:
ReplyDeleteRead this 34 pages document.
http://caseofisraelweingarten.blogspot.com/2009/10/memo-and-order-to-deny-retrial-for.html
You will understand that the judge did his best to accomodate the defendent & to find out the truth.
The defendent seems to be a very manipulative, power-hungry person. At one point, the judge states: "Modesty is not among his caracter traits".
That said, I am surprised at how biased Daas torah (i.e. the dayanim and askanim who defend YM Weingarten) can be in their perception of the facts.
http://caseofisraelweingarten.blogspot.com/2009/05/mordechai-stauber-high-school-principal.html
Here is a document declaring that the beith din of Antwerp was informed as soon as 1996 and that YM Weingarten admitted the facts that had happened up till then. This was before the worst offenses (tried in this trial) happened.
So go and investigate: did Dayan Chaim Yosef Dovid Weiss from Antwerp ever forbid YM Weingarten to be alone in a room with his daughter? If yes: Did YM Weingarten ever stay in a room alone with his daughter after this psak din was made? If yes: What would this say about YM Weingarten's respect for Torah authorities?
Yea edie ,how clever to say that.You know very well that that's not the reason they call him those titles.The article makes that plain.And explains why your post is pure nonense.
ReplyDelete@Runner
ReplyDeleteThe reason he would not admit to doing those atrocities is because he was under oath not to lie (i.e. he didn't do them). Rabbi Weingarten is a person who is so afraid to lie, you cannot imagine. I never met anyone like him. He is a tremendous tzaddik. He once told me a story of the Satmar Ruv, zy"a, showing how bad it is to lie, when one of his gabbaim told a "white lie" to a potential financial supporter it made the Rebbe almost faint from shock, and demanded that he tell only the absolute truth. I know Rabbi Weingarten lives his life in such a way, and would not have allowed a lawyer to tell such a lie as you suggest.
@ Eddie in UK:
ReplyDeleteWhen I told Moreinu HaRav Yisroel Moshe Weingarten, shlit"a, about your comment, linking the Tzeitung to the NK, he said that Klal Yisroel has no shaychus with those kofrim and apikorsim anymore than we have in all generations with the Saducees, Karaites, and all heretics through the generations. And just as those heretics are gone, so too these heretics calling themselves with the initials NK will too soon disappear.