A Serious Warning on Behalf of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem A SERIOUS WARNING
We hereby view with great seriousness the provocations of the savages against the Arabs that endangers the entire Jewish community in the Holy Land, G-d forbid.
These wild actions are carried out by provocateurs in order to pull in the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish community into the frightful provocations, the result of which is catastrophic and destructive to the Ultra-Orthodox community, and places the entire Jewish community in terrible danger, G-d forbid. WE UNEQUIVOCALLY AND ABSOLUTELY CONDEMN AND DENOUNCE THESE SAVAGE ACTIONS
We hereby state that Ultra-Orthodox Jews have no connection or link to the provocations against the Arabs. THEREFORE WE HEREBY ISSUE THIS EXTREMELY SERIOUS WARNING BY VIRTUE OF THE POWER OF THE HOLY TORAH TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL IN THIS MATTER.
Thursday, March 7, 2002
Signed: Rabbi Israel Yaakov Fisher, Head of Rabbinical Court
Rabbi Belsky is a rarity in our days, a posek who is brave and is willing to go against the halachatic trend of the day. Unfortunately rabbi Belsky is meabed olamo beshaha achas by siding with Lipa Margulies against the heilige UOJ.
I learnt in YTT for 17 years. Kolko was my First grade rebbi, Jr HS principal, & activity co-ordinator in Camp Silver Lake. I for one can not say for certain that I believe either way with regard to the mollestation accusations. But you, an otherwise anon commenter on a blog, can say on a yid of Harav Belskys stature that he is me'abed oilamoi?!?
These chuchumim who purport not to know about Kolko molesting keep popping up anonymously themselves.
Even if they are being honest, it is well known that successful molesters pick vulnerable targets while leaving the other kids alone.
Kolko improved his skills at YTT after Rav Dishon threw him out of Stolin where he was originally grabbing at every boy in sight. Ask anyone who was in Stolin at the time. They were all afraid of him and stayed clear.
It is documented that Rabbi Belsky interfered with various dinei Torah against Kolko & Margulies, even contriving intimidating hazmonos of his own from his private beis din against the bakante Flatbush askan Eli Greenwald who was trying to determine why YTT was suppressing dozens of complaints against Kolko that were brought to his attention.
The phony, intimidating hazamana is posted on the internet and Greenwald emails it to anyone who asks.
Greenwald outsmarted them by saying he will appear in front of Beis Din of America whose dayanim are lawyers mandated to report crimes to the police. That was the last he heard from them. Greenwald then summoned the 3 of them to Machon Lehoraah and they were mesarev.
Kolko & Margulies are also mesarvim in other dinei Torah and it is known that Rabbi Belsky is their meyaetz on what to do.
In other news, Rabbi Gershon Tannenbaum is reporting in the Jewish Press that is not just Rav Elyashev's gabbaim who prevented Rabbi Belsky from presenting this teshuva. Rabbi Belsky tried to get an audience with Rav Elyashev's grandson Aryeh, but he was told by his grandfather not to speak to him.
It is not shver to see why Rabbi Belsky is persona non grata. Rav Elyashev condemned him in writing for attempting a bittul kiddushin and he wrote a letter to R' Shmuel Berenbaum zl before he was niftar that the gantz OU (Rabbi Belsky is chief posek) is at best based on bedieved positions in halacha.
It is well known.... Just ask..... Bakanteh askan....
There is not one shred of evidence to support your accusations about Rav Yisroel Shlit"a. All you say is the same junk that UOJ and his sycophants post on his blog, and other ones they also started. Remember the rant against Metzitza b'peh? Untill he heard about R' Elyashivs psak with mollesters he refered to him as a senile alzheimers sufferer. So if all the proof you have to passul Rav Yisroel Shlit"a is UOJ heresay, you will have to excuse me for disregarding it.
I am not defending Kolko in any way, just drawing upon my own experience in YTT to show Rav Yisroel has plausible cause to not believe Margulies did an avlah here.
& please let me know what "Bakanteh Askan" Eli Greenwald has done in his long history of askanus before this story with the hazmana. if you can DOCUMENT it in any way, I might take his claims more seriously. Otherwise, to me, all he has proof of is the fact that he's a nitva for MSh"R by margulies in Rav Yisroels Beis Din.
The holly UOJ saved the neshama of many Jewish children by saving them from molesters, what did you do for Jewish Children ? the UOJ put some molesters in Jail and some out of circulation (including your beloved Kolko).
I will be happy to share the chelek of UOJ in the oilam haba than share it with you, Kolko and Margulies.
I am sure there is a special place over there for people who rapes children and for the people who enable them do so and you are getting very close to that place.
Oh I found that published on the naturei Karta website. And now seeing it there, I noticed that you also included the date of this proclamation which is from 2002. Why are you posting something from 2002? And what was the one from then about?
My, my. There is angry poster who can't even pick a screen name who feels the need to throw around threats of kaf hakela, a punishement reserved for the worst reshoyim who do not even have the merit of being cleansed in purgatory.
Careful what you threaten, lest it boomerang back at you.
This person is obviously dishonest.
Rabbi Belsky sits on both the Agudas Harabbonim and Iggud Harabbonim but any half serious beis din would never allow a dayan to be judge, jury & executioner for a personal friend, which is why Rabbi Belsky created a personal kangaroo court to harass R' Eli Greenwald.
How does this joker have the gall to say that REG remains a "nitva" when the 3 Musketeers Margulies-Kolko-R' Belsky ran for the hills as soon as they heard RCA dayanim-lawyers would get involved?
Rabbi Belsky is in a better position than most to know the truth about his old friend Yudi Kolko. He was the Camp Agudah posek decades ago when many boys came to complain to him about being being groped. Ask the former campers how they were screamed at and threatened to keep their mouths shut about what they knew.
And what about Rabbi Belsky's escapades with his comrades Mendel Epstein and accused pedophile Ephraim Bryks in suspicious dinei Torah to extract money from people? In one infamous case with documentation posted all over, the National Council of Young Israel forced them with lawyers to back down.
And it is doubtful that UOJ ever belittled Rav Elyashev shlita as such. Can this be pointed to in any of the web pages?
Wow. Some people are unable to debate a point rationally.
I'm sorry to dissapoint LL Cool Jew, but the torah does not allow for all wrongs to be forgiven just because you put alleged mollesters out of business. While the work is admirable, it does not excuse him for his vile rants about Chareidi Jewry, & the values that we all hold dear.
& I may be mistaken, but whom besides Kolko did UOJ put out of business? Are you refering to YOB? I don't believe that was his work.
Continuing to throw out Sourceless accusations while calling me names may help you sleep through the night, but in the end, you just prove my point that you can't source anything, you just take the word of UOJ like its toras emes...
& back to my original point. That doesn't excuse you from your responsibility to talk about Chachmei Yisroel b'chovod.
Can I ask Chaim, the first person who commented here and spammed with: "A Serious Warning on Behalf of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem A SERIOUS WARNING"
What is the relevance of this "serious warning" you have posted, which is dated March 2002, and appears published on the naturei karta website (which you seem to have pulled it from)? What provocations were they referring to? And why are you posting this here? It is now the year 2010.
The holy UOJ also get credit for being the first one to personally go after the menuval Tropper the Shtupper and expose him for the fraud he is.
In 2007 the UOJ wrote those prophetic words:
November 18, 2007
THE WEASEL TROPPER IS A FILTHY FRAUD! He should be shunned by any honest rabbi...(there are precious few!) The low-life charlatan is an example of another mean-spirited and evil person, dressed in full "rabbi" regalia, preying on the weak, naive and the vulnerable! Tropper - I'll come after you as an exterminator goes after poisonous rats! I'm on to you and your pathetic scam!You're going down - BIG!
Just the facts obviously bases all his FACTS on what UOJ posts claiming to be true. When challenged to back up accusations with proof he just rants. I wouldn't be surprised if you were UOJ himself, wanting to make it look like you have such devoted followers.
While I can't remember where he says that R Elyashiv personally has alzheimers, I can point you to where he says that R Elyashiv is overall responsible for more bad than good (Ch"v). I can show you where he calls R Ahron Feldman Shlit"a an alzheimers sufferer.
And while he may be accomplishing wonderful things in the world of child protection, where is it written that mesira for financial matters is allowed? Is there halachik basis allowing one to expose financial crimes if you don't think that he who commited them lives up to the standards you live up to? IMHO, that could be just as bad as dwek vr"y. And Shereshevsky was also involved in the hirsch case, what does that make him? & good job distracting me from my point, which was that just because UOJ doesn't like him doesn't give you the right to disrespect Horav Yisroel Shlit"a, will you also repeat what UOJ said about the Arizal???
Like R' Hershel Schechter said, UOJ is not perfect but neither is anyone else and that while he has done *some* things shelo kehogen, he gets a lot of schar for stopping many mazikim.
There are also roshei yeshiva who quietly confide that in some cases like against Margulies & Kolko, even UOJ's more extreme tactics are 100% allowed in halacha since there was no other way to stop them.
You can't remember his attack on Rav Elyashev because it never happened. While I personally wouldn't attack R' Aron Feldman the way he did, UOJ is frustrated because he rubberstamps all of R' Aron Schechter's decisions at the Moetzes that are to the detriment of children and allows Eisemann to continue living on Yeshiva Lane and tutoring children.
Yes Shereshevsky was involved but UOJ has railed against people just like him who steal to accomplish their maasim tovim.
There are kamma shitos in halacha that allow mesira for financial crimes. See the teshuva from the RCA's Rabbi Broyde. While he is controversial, he provides all the mareh mekomos from sefarim.
I don't know enough about the Arizal issue to comment, but it sounds familiar as Tropper's long time troll "Roni" attacked UOJ over the same thing.
I'm sorry for using anon, but I think the bigger issue here is the very low standard these people use to pick people to follow, while at the same time being mevazeh talmidei chachomim. I am aware that the Raavad Shlta has issues with some of rabbi Belskys gittin, but does that give every lowlife the right to belittle him?
Regarding the menuval, what courage and wisdom Rav Sternbach, the UOJ, the Failed Messiah had that the following rabbis did not?
(cut and pasted from one of the EJF conferences:)
R’ Elyashiv, HaRav Dov Povarsky, one of the roshei yeshiva of Yeshivas Ponovezh, HaRav Boruch Mordechai Ezrachi, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Ateres Yisroel, HaRav Moshe Shapira, HaRav Simchoh Kook, rov of Rechovot and chairman of the organization’s Vaad Ruchani, HaRav Shmuel Eliezer Stern, dayan and moreh tzedek at HaRav Shmuel Wosner’s beis din, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Chasam Sofer and chairman of the Vaad Halacha in Eretz Yisroel, HaRav Nochum Eisenstein, chairman of Vaad HaRabbonim LeInyonei Giyur, HaRav David Yosef, head of Beit Midrash Yechaveh Daat, and Chief Rabbi Shlomo Moshe Amar, HaRav Reuven Feinstein, president of the organization’s Halacha Committee, HaRav Aharon Shechter, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Rabbenu Chaim Berlin, HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Philadelphia, HaRav Hillel David, rov of Kehillas Shaarei Torah in Brooklyn, HaRav Eliyohu Ber Wachtfogel, rosh yeshiva of the Yeshiva of South Fallsberg http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=11401
or the ones who join his “simcha” (separated seating for tznius reasons)
I'm sorry for using anon, but I think the bigger issue here is the very low standard these people use to pick people to follow, while at the same time being mevazeh talmidei chachomim. I am aware that the Raavad Shlta has issues with some of rabbi Belskys gittin, but does that give every lowlife the right to belittle him? =============== I basically agree with your postings. The issue ulimately is that Rav Belsky is a very important talmid chachom, one who shows independence and concern for intellectual integrity - but at the same time has done somethings which are problematic.
A number of years ago I visited him and he mentioned the wall posters against him that were all over Jerusalem condemning his actions in gittn in the name of Rav Eliashiv. It obviously didn't bother him. He mentioned that it was much more complex and convoluted than it appeared on the surface and that Rav Eliashiv understood and acknowledged the legitimacy of his actions - even though the posters indicated the opposite.
It is important to note that he is viewed as an outsider by many rabbis - a powerful, learned and principled outsider - but still an outsider. For example there was a conference of gedolim on the issue of metziza at Camp Aguda a number of years ago. He was not invited even though he is the rabbinical authority there and is an expert on the subject.
I have also heard stories of divorce cases where Rav Belsky has displayed a determined concern for right and wrong as well as compassion - rather than simple legalisms. Of course the other side didn't view it in such flattering terms.
Bottom line - he deserves respect and can not be simply dismissed and insulted or even categorized. His actions can be questioned and disagreed with respect.
DT: He mentioned that it was much more complex and convoluted than it appeared on the surface and that Rav Eliashiv understood and acknowledged the legitimacy of his actions - even though the posters indicated the opposite. ==================== Yet Rav Eliashev condemned his actions in the Gitten cases??
BTW, are we talking about cases where he mattired a previously married woman to remarry despite ostensibly not receiving a get?
Bottom line, ther are very few people today whom you can point to and say that they ascribe to "lo saguru". Rabbi Belsky is one of them. I'm sure you've heard the recording of the asifa in brooklyn about the fis/worms wherein Rabbi Karp starts screaming at Rabbi Belsky "altz darfs du zuggen muttar!!! Abi mattir zein!!! Dos iz nisht apikursus!?!" & yet Rabbi Belsky stands his ground (if you haven't, let me know so I can get you a copy). People who don't like him and call him names because of it only reveal they're own true colors. I was zoche to speak to rav Shternbuch many times, and never did he call Rabbi Belsky names, he just referenced the consequences of his actions ehich in his opinion were very grave. That being said, thank you.
do you have the original text??Thank you!
ReplyDeleteA Serious Warning on Behalf of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem
A SERIOUS WARNING
We hereby view with great seriousness the provocations of the savages against the Arabs that endangers the entire Jewish community in the Holy Land, G-d forbid.
These wild actions are carried out by provocateurs in order to pull in the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish community into the frightful provocations, the result of which is catastrophic and destructive to the Ultra-Orthodox community, and places the entire Jewish community in terrible danger, G-d forbid.
WE UNEQUIVOCALLY AND ABSOLUTELY CONDEMN AND DENOUNCE THESE SAVAGE ACTIONS
We hereby state that Ultra-Orthodox Jews have no connection or link to the provocations against the Arabs.
THEREFORE WE HEREBY ISSUE THIS EXTREMELY SERIOUS WARNING BY VIRTUE OF THE POWER OF THE HOLY TORAH TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL IN THIS MATTER.
Thursday, March 7, 2002
Signed: Rabbi Israel Yaakov Fisher, Head of Rabbinical Court
Signed: Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch
Signed: Rabbi Moshe Halberstam
Signed: Rabbi Meir Brandsdorfer
Signed: Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Ullman
Rabbi Belsky is a rarity in our days, a posek who is brave and is willing to go against the halachatic trend of the day. Unfortunately rabbi Belsky is meabed olamo beshaha achas by siding with Lipa Margulies against the heilige UOJ.
ReplyDeleteQuick point for LL Cool Jew.
ReplyDeleteI learnt in YTT for 17 years. Kolko was my First grade rebbi, Jr HS principal, & activity co-ordinator in Camp Silver Lake. I for one can not say for certain that I believe either way with regard to the mollestation accusations. But you, an otherwise anon commenter on a blog, can say on a yid of Harav Belskys stature that he is me'abed oilamoi?!?
Enjoy Kaf HaKela buddy.
These chuchumim who purport not to know about Kolko molesting keep popping up anonymously themselves.
ReplyDeleteEven if they are being honest, it is well known that successful molesters pick vulnerable targets while leaving the other kids alone.
Kolko improved his skills at YTT after Rav Dishon threw him out of Stolin where he was originally grabbing at every boy in sight. Ask anyone who was in Stolin at the time. They were all afraid of him and stayed clear.
It is documented that Rabbi Belsky interfered with various dinei Torah against Kolko & Margulies, even contriving intimidating hazmonos of his own from his private beis din against the bakante Flatbush askan Eli Greenwald who was trying to determine why YTT was suppressing dozens of complaints against Kolko that were brought to his attention.
The phony, intimidating hazamana is posted on the internet and Greenwald emails it to anyone who asks.
Greenwald outsmarted them by saying he will appear in front of Beis Din of America whose dayanim are lawyers mandated to report crimes to the police. That was the last he heard from them. Greenwald then summoned the 3 of them to Machon Lehoraah and they were mesarev.
Kolko & Margulies are also mesarvim in other dinei Torah and it is known that Rabbi Belsky is their meyaetz on what to do.
In other news, Rabbi Gershon Tannenbaum is reporting in the Jewish Press that is not just Rav Elyashev's gabbaim who prevented Rabbi Belsky from presenting this teshuva. Rabbi Belsky tried to get an audience with Rav Elyashev's grandson Aryeh, but he was told by his grandfather not to speak to him.
It is not shver to see why Rabbi Belsky is persona non grata. Rav Elyashev condemned him in writing for attempting a bittul kiddushin and he wrote a letter to R' Shmuel Berenbaum zl before he was niftar that the gantz OU (Rabbi Belsky is chief posek) is at best based on bedieved positions in halacha.
It is well known....
ReplyDeleteJust ask.....
Bakanteh askan....
There is not one shred of evidence to support your accusations about Rav Yisroel Shlit"a. All you say is the same junk that UOJ and his sycophants post on his blog, and other ones they also started. Remember the rant against Metzitza b'peh? Untill he heard about R' Elyashivs psak with mollesters he refered to him as a senile alzheimers sufferer. So if all the proof you have to passul Rav Yisroel Shlit"a is UOJ heresay, you will have to excuse me for disregarding it.
I am not defending Kolko in any way, just drawing upon my own experience in YTT to show Rav Yisroel has plausible cause to not believe Margulies did an avlah here.
& please let me know what "Bakanteh Askan" Eli Greenwald has done in his long history of askanus before this story with the hazmana. if you can DOCUMENT it in any way, I might take his claims more seriously. Otherwise, to me, all he has proof of is the fact that he's a nitva for MSh"R by margulies in Rav Yisroels Beis Din.
At leatst Kaf HaKela won't be lonely. vd"l.
The holly UOJ saved the neshama of many Jewish children by saving them from molesters, what did you do for Jewish Children ?
ReplyDeletethe UOJ put some molesters in Jail and some out of circulation (including your beloved Kolko).
I will be happy to share the chelek of UOJ in the oilam haba than share it with you, Kolko and Margulies.
I am sure there is a special place over there for people who rapes children and for the people who enable them do so and you are getting very close to that place.
What provocations do they refer to?
ReplyDeleteOh I found that published on the naturei Karta website. And now seeing it there, I noticed that you also included the date of this proclamation which is from 2002. Why are you posting something from 2002? And what was the one from then about?
ReplyDeleteMy, my. There is angry poster who can't even pick a screen name who feels the need to throw around threats of kaf hakela, a punishement reserved for the worst reshoyim who do not even have the merit of being cleansed in purgatory.
ReplyDeleteCareful what you threaten, lest it boomerang back at you.
This person is obviously dishonest.
Rabbi Belsky sits on both the Agudas Harabbonim and Iggud Harabbonim but any half serious beis din would never allow a dayan to be judge, jury & executioner for a personal friend, which is why Rabbi Belsky created a personal kangaroo court to harass R' Eli Greenwald.
How does this joker have the gall to say that REG remains a "nitva" when the 3 Musketeers Margulies-Kolko-R' Belsky ran for the hills as soon as they heard RCA dayanim-lawyers would get involved?
Rabbi Belsky is in a better position than most to know the truth about his old friend Yudi Kolko. He was the Camp Agudah posek decades ago when many boys came to complain to him about being being groped. Ask the former campers how they were screamed at and threatened to keep their mouths shut about what they knew.
And what about Rabbi Belsky's escapades with his comrades Mendel Epstein and accused pedophile Ephraim Bryks in suspicious dinei Torah to extract money from people? In one infamous case with documentation posted all over, the National Council of Young Israel forced them with lawyers to back down.
And it is doubtful that UOJ ever belittled Rav Elyashev shlita as such. Can this be pointed to in any of the web pages?
No?
Motzee shem ra indeed (on UOJ).
Wow. Some people are unable to debate a point rationally.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to dissapoint LL Cool Jew, but the torah does not allow for all wrongs to be forgiven just because you put alleged mollesters out of business. While the work is admirable, it does not excuse him for his vile rants about Chareidi Jewry, & the values that we all hold dear.
& I may be mistaken, but whom besides Kolko did UOJ put out of business? Are you refering to YOB? I don't believe that was his work.
Continuing to throw out Sourceless accusations while calling me names may help you sleep through the night, but in the end, you just prove my point that you can't source anything, you just take the word of UOJ like its toras emes...
& back to my original point. That doesn't excuse you from your responsibility to talk about Chachmei Yisroel b'chovod.
Can I ask Chaim, the first person who commented here and spammed with: "A Serious Warning on Behalf of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem
ReplyDeleteA SERIOUS WARNING"
What is the relevance of this "serious warning" you have posted, which is dated March 2002, and appears published on the naturei karta website (which you seem to have pulled it from)? What provocations were they referring to? And why are you posting this here? It is now the year 2010.
The holy UOJ also get credit for being the first one to personally go after the menuval Tropper the Shtupper and expose him for the fraud he is.
ReplyDeleteIn 2007 the UOJ wrote those prophetic words:
November 18, 2007
THE WEASEL TROPPER IS A FILTHY FRAUD! He should be shunned by any honest rabbi...(there are precious few!) The low-life charlatan is an example of another mean-spirited and evil person, dressed in full "rabbi" regalia, preying on the weak, naive and the vulnerable! Tropper - I'll come after you as an exterminator goes after poisonous rats! I'm on to you and your pathetic scam!You're going down - BIG!
http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2007/11/leib-tropper-and-his-ejf-eternal-jewish.html
Ashrei Shezachinu to have the UOJ in our generation.
Just the facts obviously bases all his FACTS on what UOJ posts claiming to be true. When challenged to back up accusations with proof he just rants. I wouldn't be surprised if you were UOJ himself, wanting to make it look like you have such devoted followers.
ReplyDeleteWhile I can't remember where he says that R Elyashiv personally has alzheimers, I can point you to where he says that R Elyashiv is overall responsible for more bad than good (Ch"v). I can show you where he calls R Ahron Feldman Shlit"a an alzheimers sufferer.
And while he may be accomplishing wonderful things in the world of child protection, where is it written that mesira for financial matters is allowed? Is there halachik basis allowing one to expose financial crimes if you don't think that he who commited them lives up to the standards you live up to? IMHO, that could be just as bad as dwek vr"y.
And Shereshevsky was also involved in the hirsch case, what does that make him?
& good job distracting me from my point, which was that just because UOJ doesn't like him doesn't give you the right to disrespect Horav Yisroel Shlit"a, will you also repeat what UOJ said about the Arizal???
Like R' Hershel Schechter said, UOJ is not perfect but neither is anyone else and that while he has done *some* things shelo kehogen, he gets a lot of schar for stopping many mazikim.
ReplyDeleteThere are also roshei yeshiva who quietly confide that in some cases like against Margulies & Kolko, even UOJ's more extreme tactics are 100% allowed in halacha since there was no other way to stop them.
You can't remember his attack on Rav Elyashev because it never happened. While I personally wouldn't attack R' Aron Feldman the way he did, UOJ is frustrated because he rubberstamps all of R' Aron Schechter's decisions at the Moetzes that are to the detriment of children and allows Eisemann to continue living on Yeshiva Lane and tutoring children.
Yes Shereshevsky was involved but UOJ has railed against people just like him who steal to accomplish their maasim tovim.
There are kamma shitos in halacha that allow mesira for financial crimes. See the teshuva from the RCA's Rabbi Broyde. While he is controversial, he provides all the mareh mekomos from sefarim.
I don't know enough about the Arizal issue to comment, but it sounds familiar as Tropper's long time troll "Roni" attacked UOJ over the same thing.
Again not addressing my point about rabbi belsky....
ReplyDeleteanonymous - further comments under anonymous will be rejected
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry for using anon, but I think the bigger issue here is the very low standard these people use to pick people to follow, while at the same time being mevazeh talmidei chachomim. I am aware that the Raavad Shlta has issues with some of rabbi Belskys gittin, but does that give every lowlife the right to belittle him?
ReplyDeleteRegarding the menuval, what courage and wisdom Rav Sternbach, the UOJ, the Failed Messiah had that the following rabbis did not?
ReplyDelete(cut and pasted from one of the EJF conferences:)
R’ Elyashiv, HaRav Dov Povarsky, one of the roshei yeshiva of Yeshivas Ponovezh, HaRav Boruch Mordechai Ezrachi, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Ateres Yisroel, HaRav Moshe Shapira, HaRav Simchoh Kook, rov of Rechovot and chairman of the organization’s Vaad Ruchani, HaRav Shmuel Eliezer Stern, dayan and moreh tzedek at HaRav Shmuel Wosner’s beis din, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Chasam Sofer and chairman of the Vaad Halacha in Eretz Yisroel, HaRav Nochum Eisenstein, chairman of Vaad HaRabbonim LeInyonei Giyur, HaRav David Yosef, head of Beit Midrash Yechaveh Daat, and Chief Rabbi Shlomo Moshe Amar, HaRav Reuven Feinstein, president of the organization’s Halacha Committee, HaRav Aharon Shechter, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Rabbenu Chaim Berlin, HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky, rosh yeshiva of Yeshivas Philadelphia, HaRav Hillel David, rov of Kehillas Shaarei Torah in Brooklyn, HaRav Eliyohu Ber Wachtfogel, rosh yeshiva of the Yeshiva of South Fallsberg
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=11401
or the ones who join his “simcha” (separated seating for tznius reasons)
• Maran Hagaon Harav Chaim P. Sheinberg
• Rosh Yeshivas Ponoviz, Hagaon Harav Berel Povarsky
• Rosh Yeshivas Kaminetz, Hagaon Rav Yitzchok Scheiner
• Hagaon Rav Dovid Feinstein
• Hagaon Rav Reuven Feinstein
• Hagaon Rav Shmuel Eliezer Stern
• Hagaon Rav Moshe Shapiro
• Hagaon Rav E.B. Wachtfogel
• Hagaon Harav Moshe D. Wilhelm, Rosh Yeshivas Boston
• Hagaon Harav Shimon Alster, Rosh Yeshivas Cliffwood
• Hagaon Rav Aaron Schechter
• Hagaon Harav Eliyahu Mann
• Harav Asher Bergman (grandson of Rav Shach)
• Hagaon Harav M. Altusky
Letters of Brocho were received from Hagaonim:
• Rav Shaul Alter
• Rav Chaim Kanyevsky
• Harav M.Y. Lefkowitz
• Harav Shmuel Auerbach
• Maran Harav Eliyashuv
• Maran Harav A.L. Steinman
http://benatlas.com/2009/12/leib-tropper-under-strict-rabbinical-supervision/
Moche L'chvod Hatora V'lomdeha said...
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry for using anon, but I think the bigger issue here is the very low standard these people use to pick people to follow, while at the same time being mevazeh talmidei chachomim. I am aware that the Raavad Shlta has issues with some of rabbi Belskys gittin, but does that give every lowlife the right to belittle him?
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I basically agree with your postings. The issue ulimately is that Rav Belsky is a very important talmid chachom, one who shows independence and concern for intellectual integrity - but at the same time has done somethings which are problematic.
A number of years ago I visited him and he mentioned the wall posters against him that were all over Jerusalem condemning his actions in gittn in the name of Rav Eliashiv. It obviously didn't bother him. He mentioned that it was much more complex and convoluted than it appeared on the surface and that Rav Eliashiv understood and acknowledged the legitimacy of his actions - even though the posters indicated the opposite.
It is important to note that he is viewed as an outsider by many rabbis - a powerful, learned and principled outsider - but still an outsider. For example there was a conference of gedolim on the issue of metziza at Camp Aguda a number of years ago. He was not invited even though he is the rabbinical authority there and is an expert on the subject.
I have also heard stories of divorce cases where Rav Belsky has displayed a determined concern for right and wrong as well as compassion - rather than simple legalisms. Of course the other side didn't view it in such flattering terms.
Bottom line - he deserves respect and can not be simply dismissed and insulted or even categorized. His actions can be questioned and disagreed with respect.
DT: He mentioned that it was much more complex and convoluted than it appeared on the surface and that Rav Eliashiv understood and acknowledged the legitimacy of his actions - even though the posters indicated the opposite.
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Yet Rav Eliashev condemned his actions in the Gitten cases??
BTW, are we talking about cases where he mattired a previously married woman to remarry despite ostensibly not receiving a get?
Bottom line, ther are very few people today whom you can point to and say that they ascribe to "lo saguru". Rabbi Belsky is one of them. I'm sure you've heard the recording of the asifa in brooklyn about the fis/worms wherein Rabbi Karp starts screaming at Rabbi Belsky "altz darfs du zuggen muttar!!! Abi mattir zein!!! Dos iz nisht apikursus!?!" & yet Rabbi Belsky stands his ground (if you haven't, let me know so I can get you a copy). People who don't like him and call him names because of it only reveal they're own true colors. I was zoche to speak to rav Shternbuch many times, and never did he call Rabbi Belsky names, he just referenced the consequences of his actions ehich in his opinion were very grave. That being said, thank you.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.zshare.net/download/772379500849b299/
ReplyDelete5 minutes in it starts, 6 minutes Rabbi Karp really loses his cool...