Hat tip to RaP. His commentary is in comment section
A WOMEN'S MENTOR symposium will take place November 8-9 in tandem with the annual Dayanim Conference at the Sheraton Meadowlands in NJ. By holding the mentor symposium concurrently with the dayanim conference, distinguished rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva will enhance the program by providing their perspective and responding to questions regarding the expectations of the batei din. The symposium will address the role of the mentor in guiding candidates, assisting them in meeting the requirements of their officiating bais din, and ultimately helping them integrate into a Torah community.
The participating women are either recommended by various batei din, were previously involved in kiruv, or aspire to be part of the EJF mission.
In addition to the formal lectures, the symposium is an opportunity for the mentors to share experiences and to learn from each other's diverse backgrounds. The EJF mentor symposiums have proven to be extremely informative, helping to create a network for people with a common goal: to work alongside the bais din in helping committed intermarried couples build a Torah home. Approximately thirty mentors are expected to attend. For more information please contact Rochel Weinstein: (845) 357-1022 x106 .
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The following appeared in the The Jewish Press October 30, 2009 Page 8.
Hamodia Community 10 Cheshvan 5770 | October 28, 2009 Page C29
Eternal Jewish family: The Lillian Jean Kaplan Jewish Pride Through Education Project Presents
A Symposium For Women Mentoring/Tutoring Conversion Candidates
An opportunity to network with other mentors from Around the world, and receive chizuk from gedolei hador. Topics to be addressed:
Developing Jewish Character and Its Role In Conversion
Open Question and Answer Forum
Challenged of Educating Intermarried Couples Sincerely Committed to Building Authentic Torah Homes
Q & A Panel Featuring Leading Dayanim from Around the World
Informal Mentor Networking Session
Perspective of Geirus Candidates and Mentors Divrei Chizuk
Sunday, November 8 - Monday, November 9, 2009 Sheraton Meadowlands, East Rutherford, NJ
EJFI sponsors travel expenses and hotel accommodations. Participation is based on approval only.
If you are an interested mentor or tutor, please contact us for an application.
RaP: In a surprising last minute move, the EJF people have recently
ReplyDeleteannounced that in addition to their upcoming "dayanim conference" that they
had been scheduling and promoting for some time
http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/event_list/dayanList/
EJF has no suddenly decided to also have a simultaneous "Symposium For
Women: Mentoring/Tutoring Conversion Candidates" that begs for explanation
that why has this been unveiled now with a new link and plug on the EJF site
and a couple of fancily designed display ads in the latest Jewish Press and
the Hamodia, see below?
Will the dayanim be impressed that women are being called to attend with
them or is the call intended to lure in the wives of prospective dayanim for
the free stay and a fancy hotel?
The pitch to women to help "tutor" conversion candidates makes it seem like
it's a run of the mill thing when it really is not. Usually it is the job of
batei din to choose and assign people they know to tutor candidates for
conversion and report back to them, while in this instance the ad and pitch
makes it clear that EJF now wants to assign that job to itself.
When batei din appoint tutors for conversion candidates the tutors remain in
close touch with the batei din to report on progress or on any issues that
may crop up affecting the future conversion and this should not an area for
EJF to insert itself and in the process undermine the autonomy and authority
of batei din.
In addition, this new venture makes it sound like it's just a "kindred
spirit" to kiruv work when it's not. There is no need or obligation for
conversion tutors to act like or have the mindset of kiruv workers when
acting as the representatives of a bais din, whereas EJF is now trying to
undercut that modus operandi and transform the conversion tutors into kindly
"conversion kiruv workers" which just means a missionary and
evangelical-style proselytization position for the conversion tutors to
assume which they should not be doing under any circumstances which this
type of EJF stealth-kiruv=proselytization work is in fact.
In addition, this type of advertising sounds more like it should be coming
from a SEED program that uses tutors and mentors and not for a conversion
effort.
In fact, this again leads to a conflict of interest because now EJF will be
taking away who should be assigned to kiruv work through the established
SEED program in the USA and should not be dragged into
conversionary-missionary-proselytization work on behalf of EJF lured in by a
free stay in fancy hotels to set them up to do what they should not be doing
in the first place.
http://rabbileibtropper.com/ejf-qa/ejf-support-after-conversion/
ReplyDeleteWould the EJF pay for my wedding ? (I am married to a Jewish girl)
Would gthe EJF would buy my fiance clothes ?(bloomingdales has some nice stuff).
Utensils ? (she likes the ones in Tiffany)
when we have children would the EJF pay for their tution?
If not I will break the engagment and marry a shiksa!
From Tropper blog:
Does Eternal Jewish Family have a support system for those who have already completed the conversion process?
Rabbi Tropper answers:(Re: Mixed Marriage)
Eternal Jewish Family attempts to help those who have completed the process in many ways:
1. We connect them with a few Orthodox Rabbis in their community as well as other frum families. The success of this program is to the credit of our Executive Director, Rabbi Dovid Jacobs.
2. At times Eternal Jewish Family sends some financial assistance for new utensils, clothing (now within the laws of Modesty) and even help with children’s tuition for yeshiva. Previously the Children went to public school so there was no expense.
3. We make regular follow up calls.
4. After the 3 months of required seperation, when they have their Halachic wedding, EJF offers to Make the wedding if neccesary.
RaP, relax. i think youve gone too far this time.
ReplyDeletemy mother went to the first one, and is probably going to this one also. in her words, it was a way to give rebitzens a little vacation, inspire them with divrei chizuk from the dayanim that are already there, and let them share stories and tips with each other. thats all.
Way to go Yudi - NOT.
ReplyDeleteSo your family is given an all expenses paid vacation. I don't exactly expect you to villify Tropper now. This is like the 3 hour "Gilligan's Island" tour of Rubashkin. Everyone was handpicked as friendly to Rubashkin & OU and had their expenses paid. They asked only softball questions and wrote raving positive reviews. Rabbonim willing to pay their own way were not allowed to come along.
"Yudi said...RaP, relax. i think youve gone too far this time."
ReplyDeleteRaP: Really? Tutoring conversion candidates is deadly serious stuff. It's one thing to have secular Jews over at your house for chollent or take them out for pizza. It's quite another thing to perfect your techniques and make you feel comfortable sweet-talking and entertaining young shiksas so that they can get by their formal conversions to live with their Jewish husbands, even if as EJF "claims" they will get super-duper ultra-charedi waterproof EJF-style approved conversions. This is not simple stuff, either practically, educationally, hashkafically or Halachically.
"my mother went to the first one, and is probably going to this one also."
RaP:You "mother"? Pardon me but this is not about "bubba meises" or old-wives' tales which you are trying to say it is. But the real question is why EJF had to come up with this now? EJF has been in business for about 4 years and in all that time you say they had one womens' tutoring group? When was that? Was it part of the other larger EJF conferences or was it something alone, like this one? Do you know? This one seems to be the first that is advertsied as a unit, just that it's attached to a full dayanim conference. Very odd. They should have attached it to a rabbis' conference or to a more general conference.
How does it bring kavod to the dayanim to have a these ladies come along for the ride? It seems the answer may have something to do that EJF and Rabbi Tropper are now more under siege and being questioned than ever before due to the court cases and dinei Torah he is involved in with Guma. On this blog a tape was produced and Rav Reuven Feinstein was shown to be in disagreement with Rabbi Tropper's proselytization, so they hurried to scrameble for a jonny-come-lately scrappy "haskoma" -- a full four years after EJF was launched.
Maybe even less dayanim signed up and there is trouble brewing.
So they start panicking and padding the only way they know, taking out fancy expensive ads in the JP and Modia, by luring the women who can always use free vacations in fancy hotels to get away from the dutis of frum motherhood. After all who is going to come? Not those fancy Boro Park type ladies who live in mansions, who have domestic help for everything and have a few other vacation homes they can always go to. As you note it's going to be a couple of hard working over-loaded hard-pressed rebbetzins and maybe a few idealists who are desperate for a get away, and this is exactly what Rabbi Tropper is cynically exploiting for his own ends as EJF fumbles and tumbles at this time.
"in her words, it was a way to give rebitzens a little vacation, inspire them with divrei chizuk from the dayanim that are already there, and let them share stories and tips with each other."
RaP: Great way to help converts and to help Klal Yisroel, right?
"thats all."
RaP: Nope. You are naive.
The link to the EJF women's can be found by from it's home page by clicking on the right "November Dayanim Conference to Include Mentor Symposium
ReplyDelete19 October 2009 | 2:58 pm
A WOMEN’S MENTOR symposium will take place November 8-9 in tandem with the annual Dayanim …" that leads to a post on Eternal Jewish Family’s Blog November Dayanim Conference to Include Mentor Symposium
Written by Admin on October 19, 2009 – 1:58 pm -
Rabbi Tropper and EJf are now interchangeably using three web spots to post their messages an it can get confusing and it seems it's being used to act hifde and seek or deploy diversionary and delaying tactics by using three different types of sites to post the same EJF propaganda: (1) the main EJF web site, (2) the EJF blog and (3) EJF's blog to post promotional material statements, advertise events and supposed Q&A posts from Rabbi Tropper at Rabbi Leib Tropper’s blog.
Rabbi Tropper is now resorting to posting letters of self-praise on his blog. Obviously there is never any indication on his blog that he is facing serious legal challenges and dinei Torah for allegations of financial fraud by his once hot disciple Guma, so that on his blog it's all surreally wonderful.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that is why he has to create these fluff pieces from "satisfied customers" when he is being questioned and EJF shows serious signs of wear and tear under the harsh lights of the media and more rabbonim who question the need for EJF (batei din can function quite well without EJF and Rabbi tropper breating down their necks, as they have for the last 2,000 or more) who resent and chafe at Rabbi Tropper's brutish astrong-arm tactics.
Here's the latest from two satisfied cutomers on his blog. by the way, why are they on his blog and not on the ERJF blog or EJF site, he is clearly using the praise to butress his own image at the expense of EJF's.
In any case anyone could write such letters and there is no proof they are real or legitimate unless more real information about their writers is known to someone objective and reliable, outside of paif EJF aparatchiks:
"Letters of Hakaras Hatov to EJF from a Brother and Sister (Posted by Rabbi Tropper Posted in EJF Posted on 26-10-2009)
Dear EJF,
I am writing to thank you so much for all of your help in my conversion process. It is really just an incredible feeling of relief and anticipation to have finished. It was, at times, a very difficult process for me, but your help and support made it much more manageable. It was a very intimidating process to confront and your guidance helped me to really glean so much from it. I learned so much; I know feel ready and capable to keep the mitzvos and to continue learning. This has been an incredible new beginning to my life.
Please extend all my gratitude to Mrs. Orenstein as well for all of her help and all of the attention and time she gave to me.
Again, thank you so much, and b’ezras Hashem, I’ll be able to send news your way of many good things in the future.
All the best,
Adam
Dear EJF,
I just wanted to thank you so much for everything this summer and over the past couple of years. I also wanted to thank you for everything you did to help my brother as well. With this stage behind us, we both look forward to continued growth and recognize that none of it would have been possible without EJF.
Be well,
Sophie"
The woman event is actually smart marketing trick, The EJF knows that most conversion candidates are shiksas married or dating Jews. Tropper does not care about weirdos and confused individuals going to convert on their own, he only cares about the non-Jewish girls involved with Jews.
ReplyDeleteSo it makes sense for ther EJF to have trained women to deal with the shiksas.
I am sure the first shiur is
shiksa 101: trends in interfaith dating, from the New England WASP girl to the Queens Korean girl.
Mentoring in the EJF maze for the Minotaur.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur
They do say that Tropper can be rather bull-headed.
Roni / Tropper likes to invoke Roman mythology by naming planets in the Solar system named for deities. This is Greek, but unlike the elohim acherim that Roni / Tropper names with seemingly no heter, the Minotaur is not an avodah zara.
When I was in Mirrer yeshiva, Rabbi Bomzer was still active at the Young Israel of Ocean Pkwy located next door. Rabbi Bomzer often came to the beis medrash to ask bochurim to be mashlim a minyan when his gerim went under the chuppah in the shul. When I asked R' Shmuel Berenbaum zl who held that virtually anything was bittul Torah including Agudah conventions, he encouraged us to help. (my only complaint against Rabbi Bomzer at the time was that he called us too early and we sat there for at least 90 minutes for nothing). The one time that I was called to help, I noticed that the giyores was later living in Flatbush and seemed to be a frum woman who covered her hair.
ReplyDeleteI remember Rabbi Bomzer used to stop the bochurim at times to ask them what sugya they were learning. He would immediately rattle off the Rishonim & Achronim wherever it was in Shas.
And while R' Shmuel and the mashgiach were opposed to bochurim davening at late shacharis by the Sefardishe shuls, they never said a word against davening mincha by Rabbi Bomzer. The mashgiach even davened there himself when shkiah was after the end of 2nd seder. I have also seen Rabbi Bomzer asking shaylos or speaking in learning with the yeshiva's posek.
So despite all the conversion related rumors against Rabbi Bomzer, I have never seen anything that would substantiate them.
Rabbi Bomzer was interviewed on ABC Nightline however in what he should be ashamed of himself for saying that child rapist Mondrowitz should be "left alone" and not extradited. You see, Rabbi Bomzer was an "adviser" to Brooklyn DA Charles Hynes and it is well known that any "frum" Jews in that position were promoting abuse cover ups. The interview is on the ABC News website. Does involvement in one kind of shmutz allow cheshash for another kind? Maybe, but Tropper is far from clean himself to be going on th eattack against others.
Rabbi Bomzer was interviewed on ABC Nightline however in what he should be ashamed of himself for saying that child rapist Mondrowitz should be "left alone" and not extradited. You see, Rabbi Bomzer was an "adviser" to Brooklyn DA Charles Hynes and it is well known that any "frum" Jews in that position were promoting abuse cover ups. The interview is on the ABC News website.
ReplyDelete=================
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/09/mondrowitz-abuse-case-r-bomzer.html
"shiksa 101: trends in interfaith dating, from the New England WASP girl to the Queens Korean girl."
ReplyDeleteThere should also be a special seminar for "hot Latinas from Miami" and "French girls met skiing in the Swiss Alps".
Pennsylvania Mennonites and Lutherans are another popular subgroup among Jewish men, but they do not need much mentoring, because they already have Jewish sounding surnames, speak a Medieval German dialect and dress like Satmar ladies in Monroe. They can make really good knaidlach too. (I know of 4 Sephardic men who married German Lutherans and told their parents they were "Ashkenazic". Orthodox Rabbis married them without asking questions BTW because their surnames were "Jewish".
Another targeted specialty should be "Nurses raised on farms in the Midwest who like to marry Jewish doctors".
Hopefully someone will hold a seminar soon to try to figure out who all of the actually Jewish girls should marry, since marrying out of the faith for them means leaving Judaism.
At what age do we give a heter to a frum single girl to either marry a Gentile or go to the sperm bank?
There are thousands of them, BTW. A whole generation of Jewish "nuns" whom our Rabbis have replaced with shiksas.
"Jersey Girl said...'shiksa 101: trends in interfaith dating, from the New England WASP girl to the Queens Korean girl.'"
ReplyDeleteRaP: This post is so sad and very much true I couldn't let it pass by without some further comments.
"There should also be a special seminar for 'hot Latinas from Miami' and 'French girls met skiing in the Swiss Alps'.
RaP: Indeed, the flesh is weak and Western society is so open, and the shiksas so beautiful and welcoming and eager to marry Jews and even convert, a la Ivanka Trump very recently, and the Jewish guys love this spicey variety. There is not much anyone can do to enforce "apartheid" between gentiles and Jews in today's world and this will go on until the arrival of the Mashiach arrives. Until then there will be this swirling "two-way traffic" and mass confusion that results.
"Pennsylvania Mennonites and Lutherans are another popular subgroup among Jewish men, but they do not need much mentoring, because they already have Jewish sounding surnames, speak a Medieval German dialect and dress like Satmar ladies in Monroe. They can make really good knaidlach too."
RaP: Indeed this is so. I just read a biography of General Dwight Eisenhower whose family were originally Mennonites from Pennsylvania and spoke a basic old German. They are very old fashioned and willing to take one down positions with "the man of the house" which no Jewish girls do today.
"(I know of 4 Sephardic men who married German Lutherans and told their parents they were 'Ashkenazic'. Orthodox Rabbis married them without asking questions BTW because their surnames were 'Jewish'."
RaP: This is truly tragic. How stupid were those rabbis not to ask questions, unless they were paid off to stay silent which is always possible.
"Another targeted specialty should be 'Nurses raised on farms in the Midwest who like to marry Jewish doctors'.
RaP: What's the "speciality" and what is there to "target"? Again yo're talking about a group of young women who have good middos, have minimal personal needs and are low maintenance and they are not stupid (nurses are not stupid) so of course they go for the big prize, the emotionally under-developed Jewish doctors who make good money. But there are less Jewish doctors nowadays and more Jews in the corporate world who are marrying their shiksa secretaries (ahem, "executive assistants") andplentiful co-workers, after having spent years co-living with gentiles in mixed co-ed college dorms, what do you expect.
"Hopefully someone will hold a seminar soon"
RaP: Don't hold your breath, it ain't happening.
"to try to figure out who all of the actually Jewish girls should marry,"
RaP: The Jewish girls have no choice. They also have no real defenders and no real protectors. If they are alive and breathing, like any of God's created creatures, they must go searching far and wide for any and all possible Jewish spouses. Too many Jewish girls, and their mothers of course, have a million and one criteria before they will even date a Jewish guy even once. All this pickiness from girls facing a diminishing pool of Jewish suitors is working against them. Hashem runs the world and there are always choices, often right under one's nose, as long as one is willing to open one's eyes and be willing to consider options that may sound different but at least will get the girls dating Jewish guys. The girls need to take lessons from the Asian girls in how to be more pleasing, not picky and less bossy with men maybe.
Jersey Girl said: "since marrying out of the faith for them means leaving Judaism."
ReplyDeleteRaP: Obviously and there is no need to point out this Jewishly suicidal option. It's the equivalant of jumping off the roof spiritually if life doesn't go your way. Hashem is testing all of us in different ways and He will always provide a solution if we search hard and long and far and deep enough.
"At what age do we give a heter to a frum single girl to either marry a Gentile or go to the sperm bank?"
RaP: Never. Who will give such crazy "heterim" even though a modern Orthodox rabbi or two have already started doing this. This is a tough situation. Even though I cannot stomach it (it sounds so defeatist and un-Jewish lacking inherent optimism that even Jews in Nazi gas chambers managed to retain), but Mrs. Tzipora Heller of Neve Yerushalayim has been consoling older Jewish singles, and even the famous Rebbetzin Ester Jungreis has told some singles this, intimating that they should accept their fate that they may remain single for the rest of their lives. Then again, there are always older or divorced Jewish men they could marry and make happy.Would they consider that even when they are female singles in their 40s, 5os and even 60s (yet they always seem to trendilly want younger men as if they were good looking teenagers still, like they were imitating some pop singers!)
"There are thousands of them, BTW."
RaP: True. But so what? There are thousands of all sorts of groups, Newly divorced. Children of divorced. Agunos. Newly widowed. Impoverished and broken by life. Sick people, you name it. Look at all the appeals that come in the mail for tzedaka. Klal Yisroel is burning!
"A whole generation of Jewish "nuns" whom our Rabbis have replaced with shiksas."
RaP: Don't blame the rabbis, you know full well that they are essentially weak and almost powerless. It's a magefa (plague) on a global scale, like an internal epidemic that is afflicting all Jews. iI is part of th chevlei mashiach (the birth pains heralding the nearing of mashiach). In Western secular society it's no big deal because being single, having free sex with anyone willing, late marriage or no marriage, not having kids and single moms and dads and alternate lifestyles are now fully accepted and the norm, but for religious Jews there will always be problems no matter when and in our age you have touched on some of the toughest. In the Middle Ages Jews had to flee murderous marauding cossacks who would kill men, kidnap girls and rape women, not to mention what happened in the Holocaust and in Soviet Russia, so this is just the latest chapter of the tochacha (the Divine rebuke as predicted in the Torah) that we must all go through, survive and hopefully triumph over!
Be courageous!