I wish to offer some gratuitious advice to both sides of what looks like an awesome battle of attrition with terrible waste of time, effort and opportunity for both sides. I speak as someone who admires both of you but at the same time has been viewed as an enemy by both of you. Thus I view myself as a neutral observer.
I wish to commend R' Tropper for the change of tone and/or commentators who are defending him. It certainly makes a much more positive and convincing impression than the previous.
As you are aware this blog is carefully monitored by both sides of the dispute. And thus you are able to get a feel for the arguments your opponent will likely use in court as well as a chance to test your own.
R' Tropper your previously posting was typified by arrogant rage i.e., you lost it. It clearly was to your detriment. Why you used that approach - despite having access to the top people in public relations is a real puzzle. Hopefully the current postive change will be permanent and we can respectfully talk and agree and disagree.
On the other hand, a word of free advice to the plaintiff. You are not doing yourself any good by your video's and photo spreads showing you associating with major Jewish icons and themes - while at the same time there is an equal number of video's and photo spreads showing what an outsider with money is capable of getting. You also severely damaged yourself by threatening to sue me in civil court for merely allowing discussion of the issues - despite the fact that the vast majority of posts were very positive. It wasn't consistent with the image of a sweet hearted do gooder that you have tried to cultivate. It was the steel fist without a velvet glove
You can't be an outsider and insider simultaneously. In sum your public relations department needs to be more reality oriented and be concerned with producing an authentic public image for you - instead of the caricature that they have succeeded.
Please remember what you acknowledged to me - that you have surrounded yourself with people whose main concern is to maintain influence over you and profit from you - not necessarily to do what is in your best interests.
What is occuring is that neither side has real supporters - the major concern of most is to watch the spectacle in the sense of Roman gladiators fighting each other to the death before a crowd of excited on lookers. It isn't too late to change the situation and to back off from confrontations in court - whether beis din or secular. Perhaps you can get a panel of arbitrators. There will be not be a clear winner in this dispute - but the Jewish people will clearly be losers. Instead of devoting both your enormous energies and talents to helping others - your energy is are being directed to destroy your hated opponent.
Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,
ReplyDeleteYou are referring to both as equal oponents but it misses the point that while Guma can be faulted for spending HIS money unwisely and trusting people who should not be trusted, TroppeRoni on the other side inflicted so much damage on klal yisrael and must be stopped. Maybe all the tachlis of Guma is to stop Tropper .וּמִי יוֹדֵעַ--אִם-לְעֵת כָּזֹאת, הִגַּעַתְּ לַמַּלְכוּת.
Rav Noach ZT'L tried to stop him many years ago but as long as Tropper can leach into money he ill go on and on.
We have to remember that no rabbi in modern history has the checked past as Tropper. From him messing up Gideon Busch A'H and sending him to his death, to the family Tropper broke by telling the husband to lave his wife and his two children and sending him to a yeshiva in Israel because the wife refuse to follow his diktats, to the convert with a child and family where Tropper revoked her conversion because of wearing pants and sometimes neglecting to cover her hair.
From trying to marginalize Modern Orthodoxy and eliminate the concept of eilu veilu and by organizing the Sifkin ban and bringing machlokos to everything he get involved.
I think it is a siman that less than a year after after rav Noach was nifter someone else is daring to stand up against Tropper.
Tropper may can bring toeles by quitting chinuch and sticking to lamdanus.
Your advice to the plaintiff that "You can't be an outsider and insider simultaneously" applies equally to Rabbi Tropper who while he relies on many Halachic and Talmudic sources, also feels no inhibition of using dirty tricks to get his way, as you know was conclusively stated in the Slifkin Affair and in the way poster Roni/Tropper passed on a letter to you regarding Bomzer that was subsequently investigated and found to be a forgery from a Hebrew original. Not nice at all coming from a rabbi.
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, Rabbi Tropper too cannot have it both ways, by demanding that that the world abide by the rules of Halacha as he deems it to be and then proceeding to act in underhanded ways to trick and destroy those he deems to be his "enemies."
I fully agree that the legal threats against you that forced you to pull many important posts that were derived from public Internet sources, some now deleted from those sources, such as being the co-founder and co-funder of EJF, making it a double loss, as well as all the open-ended research and give and take common to all regular blogging that was needlessly subjected to heavy-handed legal threats.
They both brought this fight upon themselves and did not truly understand each other. Rabbi Tropper still fails to appreciate the need of baalei teshuva not to lose themsleves and their sense of self in his flooding them with his imperious Torah directives that they cannot stomach. Babies are fed slowly for years for a reason and Rabbi Tropper by nature finds such a system alien to his own detriment in this case. He fails to see how he must fulfil the nephew's ego needs as much as much as he needs his own ego needs fulfilled. It is not a one way street with the nephew there as a massive financial "teet" writing checks as if he were a free limitless cash vending machine.
The nephew meanwhile while detaching from Rabbi Tropper as his rabbi and guide which he is entitled to do, has still not proven and illustarted who his true great Torah guide really is at this time, and it clearly seems that he is his own captain, while in serious Judaism it is impossible to exists and survive, especially if one is a relative novice, without a good Orthodox rabbi to serve as a moreh derech, guide along the way of life.
So both men have their work of self-improvement cut out for them in spite of all the fame, glory and power they imagine that they have garnered for themselves which is only an illusion.
Look at Rav Elyashiv and learn from him. He sits almost alone in a small room with a desk and a bed in the heart of dank and narrow Meah shearim, and he never yells and always patient. He never ran around anywhere and was not afflicted with wunderlust like Rabbi Tropper or a need to be macho like uncle Tom's nephew. A model of superb middos, unstinting rachmonus and profound chochma, something that the warring parties in this dispute sorely lack and would do well to learn ASAP for the benefit of all concerned.
Maybe Guma demanded the comments to be removed because Roni was bad-mouthing his wife and his children. Guma came from Latin America and as some of us know Latin men are very protective of their woman and children. (yes, I consider Brazil a Latin country).
ReplyDeleteI do not think Guma has much to lose, he is already sort of a local hero in Israel. He and his family are accepted as fill pledge Jews regardless of if the wife cover her hair or him putting on rabeinu tam teffilin. I am not sure if he hopes to get some of his money back or he just wants to know what happened to it.
r' Tropper stands to lose the little respect he still has and to make everyone associated with him look tainted. It will also make the Lithuanian wing of the Ultra Orthodoxy and Rav Elyashiv look tainted as well.
Why didn't you post my comments?
ReplyDeleteLooks like poster Roni/Tropper has finally shut up.
ReplyDeleteDid Tropper really say that the issur of boel aramis is not so chomur? Without even getting into the Zohar and sifrei Kabbalah, the Gemara says it is like being kofer be'ikkur. The Rambam learns that the Torah creates an issur niddah out of nowhere, complete with an onesh karess. The Geonim learn that it is worse than eishis ish.
ReplyDeleteI am also surprised to see Roni / Tropper's frequent references to planets in the Solar System named for pagan dieties. The poskim hold that it is forbidden to name any of them except for Mercury due to "elohim acherim lo sazkiru, lo yishama al picha"
as the famous example of the cat and the waiter it could not last more than just a few days for vayiftach eidensohn ess pi haasson vehooosson vehapereh odom (hepech rap) and all the chayoss torfoss!
ReplyDeleteremember eidensohn: YOU ARE THE SAME AS WHAT YOU WERE!
Roni wrote:
ReplyDeleteremember eidensohn: YOU ARE THE SAME AS WHAT YOU WERE!
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Roni seems an apt epitaph for the termination of your participation on this blog.
Please don't send in any more comments - they won't be published.
Eternal Jewish Fraud Watch:
ReplyDeleteI am also surprised to see Roni / Tropper's frequent references to planets in the Solar System named for pagan dieties. The poskim hold that it is forbidden to name any of them except for Mercury due to "elohim acherim lo sazkiru, lo yishama al picha"
Actually, the issur only applies to an avoda zara which is currently being worshipped - I am not aware of any current worship of Jupiter, Saturn, etc.
BTW, why do you think Mercury is different? It is also named after a Roman idol?