I recently reported a blatant lie about me that appeared on R' Tropper's Blog here
"According to a trusted source, Rav Sternbuch, shlit”a was asked if he approves of the blog which is critical of EJF. His response was negative."The original comment was found here. I protested this outright lie here Even Roni - Tropper's defender on this Blog - called up Rav Sternbuch and was told that the statement was not true. The comment has since mysteriously disappeared from Tropper's blog - but there was no acknowledgment that it was a lie or an apology for the slander. Tropper obviously can't claim that no one knew he was referring to me - because everyone knows that I am the only one who has a close association with Rav Sternbuch who opposes EJF and has a blog dealing with EJF. The reason that I am bringing up this issue again is because Tropper and his associates have continued to spread this lie. In fact a well known figure in kiruv recently criticized me for going against Rav Sternbuch's wishes by attacking Tropper. I am well aware that this slander will backfire against Tropper because people will eventually find out that it is not true. However there is an elementary requirement of derech eretz that even if Tropper genuinely thought what he wrote was true - he is required to publicly apologize once he found it was not true. He has not apologized for this or for the absurd claim that I am motivated to criticize him entirely because I am the chief supporter of R' Slifkin.
Berachos (31b): R. Eleazar said: From this we learn that one who is suspected wrongfully must clear himself. Count not thy handmaid for a daughter of Belial; a man who says the Tefillah when drunk is like one who serves idols. It is written here, Count not thy handmaid for a daughter of Belial, and it is written elsewhere, Certain sons of Belial have gone forth from the midst of thee. Just as there the term is used in connection with idolatry, so here. Then Eli answered and said, Go in Peace. R. Eleazar said: From this we learn that one who suspects his neighbour of a fault which he has not committed must beg his pardon; nay more, he must bless him, as it says, And the God of Israel grant thy petition
Good luck with that.
ReplyDelete1) *You* are one worthy to demand *apology* from someone's non apolgy? *You* the one who twists and lies about RT all the time? Look just now, how you call RT's criticisim at your crticism of him as "SMEAR CAMPAIGN"? when your whole blog is FILLED WITH SHMUTZ ON HIM AND RAV REVUEN!
ReplyDelete2) I see that you try to be careful here. As far as I know I'm not "the" source about Rav Sternbuch's views about criticizing RT or not.
3) I do know however that I called him twice: ON THE FIRST TIME he was indeed critical of your posting of his on the blog. He asked me to fax him the contentsof what was written! He acknowledged that he received it. In fact, from that time on, RAP stopped linking the ltters of the BaDATz and Rav Sternbuch,
Until over a month later, when you felt that you must renew your false attacks at him, you restarted with those letters...at that time I challenged you and I called him again and at time he was actually wishy washy about it; like saying: He wrote the letters whatever one makes it...he does not internet yes or no ....He was indeed not critical of this but was like "I"m not sending it to put on the internet".
So, if you quote me, do not quote me half way! FOR I KNOW WHAT H ETOLD THE FIRST TIME! AT THAT TIME HE WAS CRITICAL AND ASKE D ME TO SEND A COPY WHICH I DID AND THEN THE LETTERS DISSAPEARED FOR OVER A MONTH!
4) With regards to "slander" "smear campaign" and LIES I would ask you to look in the mirror and what: Have you done for the past two years and the kind of shmutz attackas that you and your nicnames and associates have done and then talk about him "apologizing" to you!
continued...
ReplyDeleteAs a example that reminds you of your irrtional "smear campaign" and "slander" and LIES, you recently posted about prosetyzing in Puerto Rico. You took a comment out of context of the article and clained that T prosetyzes in MExico! You were called on attention njumerous times; yet you and your associates and nicknames persisted with the slander despite that what was said in the article was (not that Rt prosetyzes in mexico) but that he is going to make life easier for gerim!
And you think that you are qualified to speak about "slnader" "smear campaign" against RT??
An apology from Tropper ? Hell will freeze over before Tropper will admit he was wrong.
ReplyDeleteIf Tropper hits a school bus and kills all the children he will probably say "Mechathila I should not do it but bediavad is OK, I have a teshuva which says it is OK and in any case r’ Bomzer hits more school buses than me.”
Roni said...
ReplyDelete1) *You* are one worthy to demand *apology* from someone's non apolgy? *You* the one who twists and lies about RT all the time? Look just now, how you call RT's criticisim at your crticism of him as "SMEAR CAMPAIGN"? when your whole blog is FILLED WITH SHMUTZ ON HIM AND RAV REVUEN!
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DT: You are totally nuts. You can't tell the difference between truth and lies
Roni 3) I do know however that I called him twice: ON THE FIRST TIME he was indeed critical of your posting of his on the blog. He asked me to fax him the contentsof what was written! He acknowledged that he received it. In fact, from that time on, RAP stopped linking the ltters of the BaDATz and Rav Sternbuch,
DT Again you are nuts. Rav Sternbuch has harshly criticized Tropper and in addition he has consistently had a policy of not objecting if his views are discussed on internet. Now you are claiming that he is wavering about being critical of my comments? My comments are based on his views!
I have a close relationship with him and you either have a hearing problem or difficulty in understanding English - if you think he has had a negative view of what i have written.
Your statement which implies that RaP's comments are somehow synchronized is just another one of your paranoid fantasy's.
To simply the issue so that you can understand it. Either you are lying about what he said or you misunderstood his position. There is simply no possibility that he has disapproved of what I have written.
Roni 4) With regards to "slander" "smear campaign" and LIES I would ask you to look in the mirror and what: Have you done for the past two years and the kind of shmutz attackas that you and your nicnames and associates have done and then talk about him "apologizing" to you!
DT Again you clearly have difficulty in understanding English. Tropper has consistently refused to provide halachic justification for what he is doing, he has consistently misrepresented what he is doing and he has slandered me.
When I have criticized the slander he has twice deleted the comment - which I assume means he realizes it was wrong - but he has never acknowledged that he has made slanderous comments about me.
...In fact a well known figure in kiruv recently criticized me for going against Rav Sternbuch's wishes by attacking Tropper.
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting (who that would be?), for many years until Tropper got easy access to Kaplan’s pockets, Tropper approach to keiruv (torah bli derech eretz, all or nothing frumkeit ) was considered more as a cult indoctrination than teshuva gate.
While Tropper hatred toward r’ Bomzer and Modern Orthodoxy is well known his hatred to rabbi Noach Weinberg ZT’L is less known. It is partly rooted in the past when rav Weinberg allegedly pushed him out of Ohr Sameach and partly because of the fact that rav Noach had love toward Jews who are not haredi, love toward Jews who are not fully observant. Tropper on the other side calls those Jews “shekotzim”.
Tropper is probably the only businessman who calls his potential customers “shekotzim”.
The fact that other keiruv businessan are now supporting him (conveniently after rav Noach petira) means one of two things: either it is acceptable now to call non haredi Jews “shekotzim” or that some Monetary instruments changed hands.
you've been going on smearing tropper for quite a long time... sowhy shouldn't he smear back a bit...
ReplyDeletehonestly: I finf your anti-tropper campaign so boring that I have stopped reading those articles for quite a long time...
shoshi said...
ReplyDeleteyou've been going on smearing tropper for quite a long time... sowhy shouldn't he smear back a bit...
honestly: I finf your anti-tropper campaign so boring that I have stopped reading those articles for quite a long time..
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You obviously don't understand what is going on so it is in fact best if you don't read them.
"The fact that other keiruv businessan are now supporting him "
ReplyDeleteOR that you do not what you are talking about! in your LIES about Tropper!
ROni:1) *You* are one worthy to demand *apology* from someone's non apolgy? *You* the one who twists and lies about RT all the time? Look just now, how you call RT's criticisim at your crticism of him as "SMEAR CAMPAIGN"? when your whole blog is FILLED WITH SHMUTZ ON HIM AND RAV REVUEN!
ReplyDelete==================
DT: You are totally nuts. You can't tell the difference between truth and lies
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ROni: Yes, I could see differnces between so many of your LIES and Tropper's TRUTH!
Roni 3) I do know however that I called him twice: ON THE FIRST TIME he was indeed critical of your posting of his on the blog. He asked me to fax him the contentsof what was written! He acknowledged that he received it. In fact, from that time on, RAP stopped linking the ltters of the BaDATz and Rav Sternbuch,
DT Again you are nuts. Rav Sternbuch has harshly criticized Tropper and in addition he has consistently had a policy of not objecting if his views are discussed on internet. Now you are claiming that he is wavering about being critical of my comments? My comments are based on his views!
Roni: Where did he "consistently had a policy of not objecting if his views are discussed on the internet", about a war with a particular person? Can you give me this in WRITING? Further where does he say that he agrees that his views can be written in a venue that exhibits many opinions and views that is CONTRARY TO HIS VIEWS! FOr instance, when one crticizes Tropper for being critical of non kabbalat hamitzvot gerrut and these criticism might evoke by the confused reader that this TOO is the opinion of Rav Sternbuch (when in fact he MUCH MORE STRINGENT THAN OTHERS IN HIS WRITTEN TESHUVOT WHERE HE PASSELS GERUT OF THOSE THAT TAKE EXORBITANT MONEY BEDIAVAD! AND SO TOO ABOUT CHECKING GERUT OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE GERUT WITHOUT PROPER KABBALAT HAMTZVOT) can you give me in writing that Rav Sternbuch agreed that his views be lumped with views such as Mosey T?
to be continued
DT:"I have a close relationship with him and you either have a hearing problem or difficulty in understanding English - if you think he has had a negative view of what i have written".
ReplyDeleteRoni: I go by I heard from him! He told me at the first time that he didn't know about it and that I should fax him which I did! and from that time on until the recent flare up none of his letters appeared on this blog!
DT"Your statement which implies that RaP's comments are somehow synchronized is just another one of your paranoid fantasy's".
ROni: Again I go by what I heard from Rav Sternbuch's mouth! The facts that I cited follow what *he* told me! at that time!
DT:"To simply the issue so that you can understand it. Either you are lying about what he said or you misunderstood his position. There is simply no possibility that he has disapproved of what I have written."
Roni: Or that HE ACTUALLY TOLD ME WHAT I SAID HE TOLD ME! HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS NOT AWARE THAT THIS WAS GOING ON ON THE INTERNET ! (AND HE ASKED ME TO FAX IT AND I FAXED IT AND I CALLED BACK AND HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE RECEIVED IT!)
Roni 4) With regards to "slander" "smear campaign" and LIES I would ask you to look in the mirror and what: Have you done for the past two years and the kind of shmutz attackas that you and your nicnames and associates have done and then talk about him "apologizing" to you!
DT Again you clearly have difficulty in understanding English. Tropper has consistently refused to provide halachic justification for what he is doing, he has consistently misrepresented what he is doing and he has slandered me.
Tropper: ny English has got nothing to do with your LIES AND TWISTS! You have consistently not provided justification for something simple: He has backing from Gedoylley Yisroel who either are part of the Organization, or appear in mass at his conferences! To any normal indiividual this is the greatest of endorsement! He has provided you a written teshuva by Rav Reuven whichprovides justifcation to mostof hia ctivities! He has provided a TEshuvaof Rav ELyashiv that justifies the rest of his activities. You have not provided any written justification that even if he is not doing something proper (about your opinion abouut encouraging converts in certain situations) that you are allowed to smear him or to have other behemoss smear him with the most vicious of attacks. You have twsited all along anything thatis written about.
Just recently, you have twisted a comment made by Mispacha about THE REAL THREATOF PROSETYZATION IN PUERTO RICO ABOUT THE REALVILLAINS AND (INSEAD OF GOING AFTER THE REAL VILLAINS) YOU HAVE HAVE GONE ABOUT A COMMENT MADE BY THE RABBI THAT TROPER WILL TRYTO MAKE THE LIFE OF GERIM EASIER AS A PROOF THAT HE "PROSETYZES IN MEXICO" AND YOU HAVE NOT BACKED OUT FROM THAT LIE! and so on and on andon...You have allowed criticism (and perhaps in one of the seven names ...) about him cancelling conversions becauseof tropper's vile character....without any support....whihch mostprobably happened that the person lied and deceived the bais din and from day on of the conersion she was a fraud.... This is not A SMEAR CAMPAIGN AND IS NOT AD HOMINOM???? BUT A A STATEMENT ABOUT THE NON APOLOGIZING FOR SOMETHING THAT HE SUPPOSEDLY HAD REASON TO BELEIVE THAT RAV STERNBUCH WAS CRITICAL OF YOU AND I STILL BELEIVE THAT HE WAS NOT HAPPY LECHATCHILA THAT IT WAS ON THE INTERNET (FROM WHAT HE TOLD *ME*) thatis "ad homnem"??
when was the last time you apologize dfor the most of VLE SHMUTZ THINGS THAT YOUR BLOG ALLOWS UNDER THE NAME RAP OR MONSEY TZADIK????
Tropper said
ReplyDeletethat you are allowed to smear him or to have other behemoss smear him with the most vicious of attacks
Actually in some posts I referred to you as beheima Tropper and Rav Eidenshom refused to publish them.
"Actually in some posts I referred to you as beheima Tropper",
ReplyDelete\actually whether oyou used that eterm or not you always managed to make the most viciousof attacks, and neither you nor DT/M has aever apologized!