1) Rav Shternbuch objects to her being held in a cell with "hardened criminals." However, others object to her being held "in solitary confinement." Both charges cannot be true.
2) The police did not arrest her for being mentally ill. They arrested her for allegedly committing a criminal act. The mental illness is a possible defense, but not the reason she was arrested.
3)The only reason she was being held for a week was because she refused to submit to a psychiatric evaluation. Had she cooperated and submitted to the evaluation, then she would have been released sooner.
4)The police also have an interest in knowing whether she represents a threat to her other children. They cannot put those children at risk. The family, however, hid those other children from the police and the social workers. Therefore, the police cannot assess the risks.
5)Rav Shternbuch speaks of the brutal way she was arrested. What evidence doees he have that her arrest was done in a brutal fashion. Please note that none of her defenders has made this claim before. I wonder whether Rav Shternbuch would share with us his insights into proper tactics the police could employ when they have to arrest a member of the Toldos Ahron group. SHould they send a letter, asking them to please come to the police station? Should they go into Battei Ungarim, even though they would wind up surrounded by rock-throwing maniacs?
Haredi on haredi violence is not a new thing. While Artscroll Likes to romanticize the Jewish life in Europe, it was not always the the they describe it.
Ask any Broslove chosid on their persecution in Europe, like who put Rabbi Nathan in prison (the Savran rebbe) and who got him out (Modern Jews). Ask any Chabbadnic who was the moser of Rabbi Shneor Zalman and who put him in Jail ( Misnagdim).
Not only case of mesira (wonder why it did not bother them then) but also cases where people had to move to another city because their life was not safe ( from other Jews) and actual assisinations!
So compare to then now is not that bad. However, the real phenomenon is the kannayim of today get their way not by violence but by money. [...]
This letter has been posted to Israeli forums and the simple question is being asked: WHY IS THE LETTER NOT IN HEBREW??
If the letter was directed to those rioting, it should be in Hebrew. The fact that it is in English seems to show that it was written to the donors and the Jews overseas who are horrified by the senseless rioting of the Haredim in Jerusalem, but R' Sternbuch is giving tacit approval of the riots in Israel.
Rabbi Eidensohn: Can you get such a letter in Hebrew?
The reason it was not written in English, is because Rav Shternbuch shlita is well-aware the so-called violence is almost non-existent and is perpetrated by very few in numbers who are neither adherents of himself, the Eidah, or of any Torah authority for that matter.
And that the little so-called violence is merely being blown up by the lying secular media. You will note that in Rav Shternbuch's letter he condemns in the strongest terms "the barbaric actions of the police" rather than the lies the media publishes about "chareidi violence."
Joseph - the lying secular media? The rioters in RBS threw rocks, burned dumpsters, blocked traffic, called on other Jews to throw rocks at policemen. Never the other actions which were not violent, but just obnoxious, like waking up sleeping parents during their march for two nights in a row. SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES AND EARS you naive apologist. (Ok, my husband heard them yelling "Nazis!" and calling for rock-throwing.) Next time defend something truly worth defending, like Torah. Don't try to minimize aveiras. Rachel Hershberg Beit Shemesh, Rehov Gad If you want to know where that is in relation to the rioters, ask.
While you insist on remaining anonymous, you have an eyewitness who is willing to put her name to her statement telling you what she saw.
As a resident of RBS-A, I can confirm that everything Mrs. Hershberg said is completely true.
If you ever visit the Zionist regime, you are invited to come visit Ramat Bet Shemesh Bet and/or the Kiryah in Bet Shemesh, and if you stick around long enough, you will see with your own eyes that what she posted is not sheker.
In the meantime, you may want to consider how you can apologize.
You've been on the Internet for long enough that I trust you can figure out how to find out contact information. You are welcome to call me, and I will provide you with names of other local residents who have suffered from and/or observed wanton violence by a large mob of chareidim in response to actions that took place in Yerushalyim. Feel free.
Rav Sternbuch writes that he condemns the fact that the mother was arrested and not directed to a psychiatric ward.
On an other blog, a MD wrote that in some US states, the prosecution cannot bring a person to psychiatric ward (involuntary commitment) without prior submitting them to (independent) psychiatric testing and make it plausible to the judge that the involuntary commitment is justified.
Is this the case in Isreal? (Since you are a psychologist in Israel, I suppose you know or could find out quite easily) What is the procedure to get someone to involutary commitment?
OK. Apparently the information is not so easy to come by, although you are a psychologist in Israel, so I will try to get the answer from other sources.
1) Rav Shternbuch objects to her being held in a cell with "hardened criminals." However, others object to her being held "in solitary confinement." Both charges cannot be true.
ReplyDelete2) The police did not arrest her for being mentally ill. They arrested her for allegedly committing a criminal act. The mental illness is a possible defense, but not the reason she was arrested.
3)The only reason she was being held for a week was because she refused to submit to a psychiatric evaluation. Had she cooperated and submitted to the evaluation, then she would have been released sooner.
4)The police also have an interest in knowing whether she represents a threat to her other children. They cannot put those children at risk. The family, however, hid those other children from the police and the social workers. Therefore, the police cannot assess the risks.
5)Rav Shternbuch speaks of the brutal way she was arrested. What evidence doees he have that her arrest was done in a brutal fashion. Please note that none of her defenders has made this claim before. I wonder whether Rav Shternbuch would share with us his insights into proper tactics the police could employ when they have to arrest a member of the Toldos Ahron group. SHould they send a letter, asking them to please come to the police station? Should they go into Battei Ungarim, even though they would wind up surrounded by rock-throwing maniacs?
Was he told that hospital personal and witnesses were threatened?
ReplyDeleteDid not the subsequent riots prove that the police was right in taking some precautionary measures?
Haredi on haredi violence is not a new thing. While Artscroll Likes to romanticize the Jewish life in Europe, it was not always the the they describe it.
ReplyDeleteAsk any Broslove chosid on their persecution in Europe, like who put Rabbi Nathan in prison (the Savran rebbe) and who got him out (Modern Jews). Ask any Chabbadnic who was the moser of Rabbi Shneor Zalman and who put him in Jail ( Misnagdim).
Not only case of mesira (wonder why it did not bother them then) but also cases where people had to move to another city because their life was not safe ( from other Jews) and actual assisinations!
So compare to then now is not that bad. However, the real phenomenon is the kannayim of today get their way not by violence but by money. [...]
This letter has been posted to Israeli forums and the simple question is being asked:
ReplyDeleteWHY IS THE LETTER NOT IN HEBREW??
If the letter was directed to those rioting, it should be in Hebrew. The fact that it is in English seems to show that it was written to the donors and the Jews overseas who are horrified by the senseless rioting of the Haredim in Jerusalem, but R' Sternbuch is giving tacit approval of the riots in Israel.
Rabbi Eidensohn:
Can you get such a letter in Hebrew?
Link to discussion of letter being in English:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bhol.co.il/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=2&topic_id=2658792&forum_id=771
The reason it was not written in English, is because Rav Shternbuch shlita is well-aware the so-called violence is almost non-existent and is perpetrated by very few in numbers who are neither adherents of himself, the Eidah, or of any Torah authority for that matter.
ReplyDeleteAnd that the little so-called violence is merely being blown up by the lying secular media. You will note that in Rav Shternbuch's letter he condemns in the strongest terms "the barbaric actions of the police" rather than the lies the media publishes about "chareidi violence."
Joseph - the lying secular media? The rioters in RBS threw rocks, burned dumpsters, blocked traffic, called on other Jews to throw rocks at policemen. Never the other actions which were not violent, but just obnoxious, like waking up sleeping parents during their march for two nights in a row. SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES AND EARS you naive apologist. (Ok, my husband heard them yelling "Nazis!" and calling for rock-throwing.) Next time defend something truly worth defending, like Torah. Don't try to minimize aveiras.
ReplyDeleteRachel Hershberg
Beit Shemesh, Rehov Gad
If you want to know where that is in relation to the rioters, ask.
Rachel, No, need to ask, as that will just encourage you to post additional sheker.
ReplyDeleteMy dear Joseph,
ReplyDeleteWhile you insist on remaining anonymous, you have an eyewitness who is willing to put her name to her statement telling you what she saw.
As a resident of RBS-A, I can confirm that everything Mrs. Hershberg said is completely true.
If you ever visit the Zionist regime, you are invited to come visit Ramat Bet Shemesh Bet and/or the Kiryah in Bet Shemesh, and if you stick around long enough, you will see with your own eyes that what she posted is not sheker.
In the meantime, you may want to consider how you can apologize.
You've been on the Internet for long enough that I trust you can figure out how to find out contact information. You are welcome to call me, and I will provide you with names of other local residents who have suffered from and/or observed wanton violence by a large mob of chareidim in response to actions that took place in Yerushalyim. Feel free.
Rav Sternbuch writes that he condemns the fact that the mother was arrested and not directed to a psychiatric ward.
ReplyDeleteOn an other blog, a MD wrote that in some US states, the prosecution cannot bring a person to psychiatric ward (involuntary commitment) without prior submitting them to (independent) psychiatric testing and make it plausible to the judge that the involuntary commitment is justified.
Is this the case in Isreal? (Since you are a psychologist in Israel, I suppose you know or could find out quite easily) What is the procedure to get someone to involutary commitment?
OK. Apparently the information is not so easy to come by, although you are a psychologist in Israel, so I will try to get the answer from other sources.
ReplyDelete