אתמול האריך בית משפט השלום בירושלים את מעצרו של הדוד, תושב מאה שערים, החשוד כי ביצע מעשים מגונים ומעשי סדום באחייניו. היום הוארך גם מעצרם של ההורים, החשודים כי לא דיווחו על ההתעללות שנמשכה שש שנים. האב סיפר בחקירתו: "התייעצתי עם רב, והוא אמר לי לא להסגיר את אחי
Most of the Rebbeim I know would say the same. They believe that the parents should just keep the children away from the dangerous relative, why ruin his life? They do not realize that the offender is a threat to everyone's children and not just those in his family.
ReplyDeleteMost parents are told by their Ravs not to report abuse because it will ruin the children's chances for shidduchim. But who are the community leaders who make it such a stigma after a child has been abused that he/she cannot get married???
The new haskafa is to blame the victim and that is wrong. It is not Judaism.
You see, as far as I understand, there is no clear case in halacha against pedophila, as long as it is directed against non-related girls.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, however, or in the case of incest, it is a very heavy issur.
So I can not understand why rabbanim would treat this issur more lightly then shmirat shabbat, etc...
Shoshi,
ReplyDeletekdoshim tihiyu?
KT
Joel Rich
shoshi said...
ReplyDelete"You see, as far as I understand, there is no clear case in halacha against pedophila, as long as it is directed against non-related girls."
As far as I understand the halacha a pedophile has the din of a rodef. One may kill this person if there is no other way of stopping him/her. It is a danger to the victim both spiritually and physically. I say that the physical danger stems from the fact that there is a noted statistical bump in suicides as far as abuse victims are concerned.
You are correct though that there is no specific maasei avera associated with the act itself.
"there is no specific maasei avera associated with the act itself."
ReplyDeleteChas v'SHALOM!!!! You could not be more wrong!!!
Read this PLEASE:
Dear Community Members:
Over the last few days, a number of people have brought to my attention an article from a secular publication asserting that a world-renowned Rosh Hayeshiva issued a halachic ruling regarding child molestation. This alleged ruling "through this publication“ has resulted in widespread Chilul Hashem and gross misrepresentation of clear and indisputable Halacha.
The purpose of this letter is not to address the context of the quote, the alleged ruling in question or the specifics of the primary accusations made in the article. This letter is about clarifying the position of halacha with regard to child abuse, to the extent that position has been clouded by these recent events. Moreover, this
letter is about urgently disseminating essential halachic facts which -- hopefully -- will serve to mitigate the potential damage and destruction caused by this mischaracterization.
It is incumbent upon all Rabbonim worldwide to unite and unequivocally declare that Orthodox Judaism absolutely forbids child abuse of any kind sexual and non-sexual. And, as with any other allegation of halachic wrongdoing, the appropriate testimony must be given, and the appropriate proceedings must be convened, in order to establish the truth of any accusations.
Allow me to be among the first to make this declaration, and I speak not only for myself but also for the Rosh Hayeshiva named in this publication, with whom I have consulted:
Sexually abusing a child in any form is a flagrant violation of our Torah. Halacha absolutely prohibits any and all such conduct. No "benchmark" exists to qualify a sexually motivated act as child molestation, and there are no "technical defenses" to justify child abuse. To be crystal clear: the touching of a child in a sexual manner is utterly forbidden by our Torah and by our mesorah.
It is my hope and prayer that this letter will serve to clarify any confusion about the Torah view on these very serious issues. Obviously, this is not a scholarly letter or article -- now is not the time for Talmudic sources, lengthy discussions or intellectual debates. It is simply the time to set the record straight solely for the purpose of abruptly ending the Chilul Shaim Shomayim facilitated by the dissemination of the supposed Torah viewpoint reported in the article.
Child abuse is forbidden. An issue this easy does not need further clarification. It is my sincere hope that, in consultation with other Rabbonim in our community, we can collectively and effectively formulate appropriate strategies to ensure that the issue of child abuse is dealt with appropriately, proactively and swiftly in our community and beyond.
Good Shabbos.
Rabbi Aryeh Ginzberg
Chofetz Chaim Torah Center
Cedarhurst, NY
In addition to his own condemnation, Rabbi Ginzberg quotes Rav Scheinberg as putting his name behind a different ruling, one which forbids any sexual contact with minors whatsoever as being an act of child molestation. While the letter doesn't go so far as to refute the allegation that Rav Scheinberg tried to dissuade the alleged molester's accusers from pursuing their claims , it does refute the notion that there are technical limitations to the definition of molestation.
They believe that the parents should just keep the children away from the dangerous relative, why ruin his life?
ReplyDeleteThe man is sick and needs medical help, do you ignore a relative with an illness---OF COURSE NOT, you send him asap for medical consultation. Mental and emotional illness is an illness that requires medical assistance. Why ruin his life? These people are found to have ruined or are in the midst of ruining numerous lives themselves.
Exactely: why should you have rachamim on someone who does not have rachamim himself?
ReplyDeleteAs the saying goes: Ha merachem al achzarim, sofo leachzer al rachamim.
The case of child abuse is the best example for this: Those who have pity on the perpetrators are cruel to the victims.
Last I heard, mishkav zochor is chayav sekila.
ReplyDeleteThe Rosh had the nose of a zona cut off because of her impact on the community.
There is no safek that if there is a known pedophile that is active in the community, harsh measures would be in order to get him to stop.
Jersey Girl and Shoshi,
ReplyDeleteWe need to make a distinction between what the world may call Pedophilia and what Torah would call child abuse.
For instance Yaakov Avinu married a 3yr old (Rivka immanu). It is not unheard in the Chareidi world for 15 and 16 yr girls to marry men in their mid-late twenties. In Yemen it was not unheard of for men even into their 30's to marry girls as young as 12. I personally know a member of one prestigious torah family there, where his grandfather was 35 when he married his grandmother of 10. Halachically speaking, and as strange as this may sound to the western mind, Judaism has never recognized an aveira when the couple was properly married, and the wife was physically mature to bear children.
However, Judaism has always recognized that rape is Ossur, and rape by definition is forcing sexual activities upon another individual. I do not know if it is simply because rape is a four letter word that we prefer to use the word molestation, however essentially that is what sexual abuse of children is, RAPE.
Yes you are right, pedophilia in the strictest sense is not ossur from the Torah. Rape is. So let us not give these deviants anything to hide behind, rape in all cases is ossur. The person is a rodef, and should be able to be treated as such.
To be clear child molestation(aka rape) is FORBIDDEN from the Torah.
You see, you made my point: According to halacha, it is permissible to have sexual intercourse with children as young as 10.
ReplyDeleteNow you say that rape is assur. But what happens if? Does he have to pay compensation? Or will he go to jail?
PS: As far as the distinction between molestation and rape is concerned: molestation is any form of sexual abuse, even touching. Rape means there was penetration.
So what is the halachic stance on oral rape (forced oral sex), for example??? Or on unwanted touching?
In Yemen marriages are performed but not consummated for girls who have not reached maturity. This is to prevent the girls from being lured away from their families by non Jews.
ReplyDeleteThis was traditionally the case in many Arab countries where Jewish girls are a primary target for intermarriage.
My great grandmother was "married" at 13 but the marriage was not consummated until she turned 18. I know of other women who were "married" as young as 3 but whose marriages were not consummated until they were old enough to be married.
In Muslim countries, Jewish women are highly desirable to Muslim men. It is the opposite of the situation in the West where Jewish men are highly desired by Gentile women who perceive them to be affluent and good husbands.
Many families traditionally "married" off their daughters at a very young age in order to prevent them from being lured away by Gentiles who would promise them the world when they reached puberty and inevitably rebelled to a certain extent.
The story of Sol Hatchuel was another deterrent used by Jewish parents to try to keep their daughters from assimilating into the majority culture. I was told by my family that there was a Takana in Morocco that any Jewish woman who married a Muslim, her children could not marry into the Jewish community despite their being 100% Jewish k'halacha.
I was told by my family that this was a deterrent to intermarriages between Jewish women and Muslim men (the King of Morocco is the product of such a union) which would leave Jewish men un- marriageable.
It is interesting that in Muslim countries the problem of intermarriage is the opposite of what it is in the West.
Excellent post . I was fascinated by the information ! Does someone know where my company would be able to grab a blank Shipper\'s Letter of Instruction document to complete ?
ReplyDelete