Full Rebuttal by PLANCK'S CONSTANT
Jersey Girl disagrees with Planck's Constant - see comments section
I would appreciate if you would do a bit more research before you post claims that Ringworm Affair never occurred as documented. I apologize in advance that this post is so long. But the topic is important.As a family member of numerous survivors, I am frankly shocked and dismayed at your callousness and absurd rebuttal of a very well documented and attested documentary of history, a tragic chapter not unlike that in Europe in which 6 million Jews were murdered(H"YD).
The Ringworm Children happened. It happened to my family.
ReplyDeleteIn 1951, the director general of the Israeli Health Ministry, Dr. Chaim Sheba flew to America and returned with 7 x-ray machines, supplied to him by the American army.
They were to be used in a mass atomic experiment with an entire generation of Sephardi youths to be used as guinea pigs. Every Sephardi child was to be given 35,000 times the maximum dose of x-rays through his head. For doing so, the American government paid the Israeli government 300 million Israeli liras a year. The entire Health budget was 60 million liras. The money paid by the Americans is equivalent to billions of dollars today. To fool the parents of the victims, the children were taken away on "school trips" and their parents were later told the x-rays were a treatment for the scourge of scalpal ringworm. 6,000 of the children died shortly after their doses were given, while many of the rest developed cancers that killed them over time and are still killing them now. While living, the victims suffered from disorders such as epilepsy, amnesia, Alzheimer's disease, chronic headaches and psychosis.
The majority of the victims were Moroccan because they were the most numerous of the Sephardi immigrants. The generation that was poisoned became the country's perpetual poor and criminal class. It didn't make sense. The Moroccans who fled to France became prosperous and highly educated. The common explanation was that France got the rich, thus smart ones. The real explanation is that every French Moroccan child didn't have his brain cells fried with gamma rays.
The film made it perfectly plain that this operation was no accident. The dangers of x-rays had been known for over forty years. We read the official guidelines for x-ray treatment in 1952. The maximum dose to be given a child in Israel was .5 rad. There was no mistake made. The children were deliberately poisoned.
ONLY Sephardi children received the x-rays.
The film presents a historian who first gives a potted history of the eugenics movement. In a later sound bite, he declares that the ringworm operation was a eugenics program aimed at weeding out the perceived weak strains of society.
Here was the government cabinet at the time of the ringworm atrocities:
* Prime Minister - David Ben Gurion
* Finance Minister - Eliezer Kaplan
* Settlement Minister - Levi Eshkol
* Foreign Minister - Moshe Sharrett
* Health Minister - Yosef Burg
* Labor Minister - Golda Meir
* Police Minister - Amos Ben Gurion
* The highest ranking non-cabinet post belonged to the Director General Of The Defence Ministry, Shimon Peres.
That a program involving the equivalent of billions of dollars of American government funds should be unknown to the Prime Minister of cash-strapped Israel is ridiculous. Ben Gurion was in on the horrors and chose his son to be Police Minister in case anyone interfered with them.
Finance Minister Eliezer Kaplan handled the profits of the operation and was rewarded for eternity with a hospital named after him near Rehovot. Chaim Sheba, who ran Ringworm Incorporated, had a whole medical complex named after him. Needless to say, if there is an ounce of decency in medical profession, those hospital names should be changed.
Watch the movie, it is well documented.
It happened, Sephardi!
DeleteI would appreciate if you would do a bit more research before you post claims that Ringworm Affair never occurred as documented. I apologize in advance that this post is so long. But the topic is important.
ReplyDeleteAs a family member of numerous survivors, I am frankly shocked and dismayed at your callousness and absurd rebuttal of a very well documented and attested documentary of history, a tragic chapter not unlike that in Europe in which 6 million Jews were murdered(H"YD).
The Ringworm Affair was more tragic in many views because the genocide of Sephardi children ordered by Ashke-
nazi leaders.
The methods and testimonies used to make the documentary, The Ringworm Children mirrored those used to document survivors testimony of the Holocaust in Europe and this was intentional.
I am personally acquainted with the scholars who collaborated on this documentary as well as many of the survivors who testified and submitted notarized witnessed affidavits some of which I helped to collect.
There are many Holocaust deniers whose claims imply that the Holocaust is a hoax arising of a Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples.
The blog you posted a link to, Planck's constant states:
"Again we have historical revisionism. Back in the 50s radiation from x-ray machines was considered harmless"
The person who stated this, obviously never heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one in the 50s thought radiation was harmless. Children were X-ray'd for therapeutic reasons only in the 1950s just as they are today.
X-ray radiation treatment for ringworm of the scalp was never a widespread treatment because it was prohibitively expensive, especially in comparison to the common treatment of anti fungal violet gentian or sulfas which cost pennies per application.
Grifulvin was a cheap antifungal widely prescribed in the 1950s. Microsporum audouini, the fungus that causes ringworm in Caucasians was easily detected in the large populations it infected because it produced a bright yellow-green fluorescent glow when the patient's head was illuminated by a Wood's lamp. But Microsporum audouini is not found in Africans. It was only in the 1970s Trichophyton tonsurans was identified as a fungal infection that affects non Caucasians, T. tonsurans does not fluoresce under a Wood's lamp.
Are we to believe that the impoverished State of Israel in the 1950's would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on radiation for ringworm while the conventional treatment in the affluent United States was "tinting" with violet gentian, or other cheap sulfa antifungals such as Grifulvin?
Now try to explain why only Sephardic children were singled out for radiation treatment when medical studies conducted in the 40s concluded:
"Tinea capitis affects all races, but some groups are at higher risk for infection. In the 1950s, a strain of tinea capitis caused by the Microsporum audouini fungus infected mostly young Caucasian males."
http://www.aboutgrifulvin.com/10myths.asp
See Kligman, A.M. and Rebell, G.: The routine cultural identification of Microsporum Ringworm of the scalp, Journal of Investigative Dermatology 13,135, 1949.
Planck's constant also states:
"Indeed the largest Jewish community in the Arab world today is in Morocco. There are between 7,000 and 10,000 Jews left in Morocco—mostly in Casablanca, but also in Marrakesh, Tangiers and Rabat."
The largest Jewish community in the Arab world today is in Iran, with estimates between 25,000-40,000.
The three key claims of Holocaust deniers are:
* The Nazis had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews.
Planck's constant states:
"Yeah sure, as if Michael Moron's Fahrenheit 911 had some connection with reality. See the 59 deceits and lies in Fahrenheit 911."
* Nazis did not use gas chambers to mass murder Jews.
Planck states: "All this "Make the headache go away" is a complete fabrication - it cannot have happened."
* The figure of 5 to 7 million Jewish deaths is a gross exaggeration, and the actual number is an order of magnitude lower.
Planck's constant denies the possibility of the numbers of Sephardic immigrants who claim they were affected in stating:
"Also, Moroccans are the most numerous of the Sephardi immigrants today. But not in 1951. The director/researcher here did not do his research. The assumption that because there are about 700,000 Moroccan Jews in Israel today, representing the largest proportion of Sephardic Jews, that this was so in 1951."
and
"Israel at that time was also plagued with an outbreak of ringworm, a skin disease that grows in the roots of the hair and quickly spreads among children who live in crowded conditions. The State of Israel began a comprehensive treatment and prevention campaign, some of which were X-ray treatments of the heads of all children up to age 15 who had emigrated from Arab countries. About 20,000 children underwent these treatments."
Again keep in mind that widely published studies in the 40s had concluded that Microsporum audouini fungus infected mostly young Caucasian males. It was only in the 1970s that a strain was discovered called T. tonsurans which infected non Caucasians.
Why weren't Ashkenazi children irradiated?
Holocaust deniers assert:
* Stories of the Holocaust were a myth initially created by the Allies of World War II to demonize Germans. Jews spread this myth as part of a grander plot intended to enable the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and now to garner continuing support for the state of Israel.
The documentary presents testimony from the nurse who administered the radiation. She also testifies about the numbers of children she personally irradiated.
Yet, Planck's constant mirrors this common Holocaust denial tactic:
"Yet in this poorly researched and obviously anti-Jewish documentary it states that 100,000 Sephardic children, of which Moroccans were the majority, were exposed to X-rays. Demographically speaking this could not have happened. Someone is guilty of an anachronism."
Holocaust deniers claim:
* Documentary evidence of the Holocaust, such as photographs and the Diary of Anne Frank, has been fabricated.
Planck states:
"Anyone familiar with the Middle-East knows about Henna Parties."
Henna is painted on the hands, not used to dye the hair at henna parties.
* Survivor testimonies are filled with errors and inconsistencies, and are thus unreliable.
Again, there are interviews in the documentary with doctors and nurses who administered the radiation and who collaborate the survivor's testimony.
* The Nazi treatment of Jews was no different from what the Allies did to their enemies in World War II.
"X-ray treatments were given to Sephardic youths, which long range problems were not known by the state at the time. Chamish's assertions of treatments with 35,000 times the normal dose, saying everyone knew the max was .5 rad, the stories of screaming pain from the treatments, putting in Moroccans because that would make the largest group in Israel feel injured, inserting the conspiracy with American military, etc., on and on now shows that he took a tragic event and painted it Michael-Moore-style as the Ringworm Holocaust and Moroccan genocide."
*
Holocaust denial is widely viewed as failing to adhere to rules for the treatment of evidence, principles that mainstream historians (as well as scholars in other fields) regard as basic to rational inquiry. The prevailing—indeed, the virtually unanimous—consensus of mainstream scholars is that the evidence given by survivors, eyewitnesses, and contemporary historical accounts proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the Holocaust occurred; and that it occurred as these sources say it occurred.
The very same techniques of survivor testimony, eyewitness accounts, historical documentation etc as were used to document the atrocities of the Holocaust in Europe were intentionally used to document the tragedy of the Ringworm Children.
And yet Planck's constant uses the common Holocaust denial tactic above as part of his "irrefutable" conclusion:
"the point is that there was no secret that these children were treated, nor was there any covering up of the studies. They were published in International Scientific and Medical publications for all to see for the past 55 years."
But respected peer reviewed research states to the contrary to Planck's outlandish denial claims:
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/1/7/2/0/p117204_index.html
which states:
"Between 1949-1960 approximately 100,000 immigrants to Israel, many of them from North African countries, were irradiated against ringworm of the scalp."
and
"the scale and scope of this mass public health program put the Israeli case as a unique one in the world. "
and
" the consequences were severe. Several decades after the x-ray treatment the immigrants irradiated developed complications ranging from ugly scars to life threatening complications such as meningioma, thyroid cancers and more. In 1994 the Israeli State enacted a compensation law"
Planck's constant starts out calling Chamish's article a "hoax" - but on careful reading, while accusing him of distortion and exaggeration, it confirms that Sephardi immigrant-children had in fact been subjected to mass head radiation-treatments.
Anti Sephardi racism in Israel is a well documented historical fact, in 1949, Ashkenazi journalist Aryeh Gelblum wrote the following about the arriving Mizrahi immigrants:
"This is the immigration of a race we have not yet known in the country. We are dealing with people whose primitivism is at a peak, whose level of knowledge is one of virtually absolute ignorance and, worse, who have little talent for understanding anything intellectual. Generally, they are only slightly better than the general level of the Arabs, Negroes, and Berbers in the same regions. In any case, they are at an even lower level than what we know with regard to the former Arabs of Israel. These Jews also lack roots in Judaism, as they are totally subordinated to savage and primitive instincts. As with Africans you will find among them gambling, drunkenness, and prostitution ... chronic laziness and hatred for work; there is nothing safe about this asocial element. [Even] the kibbutzim will not hear of their absorption."
One of Israel's leading intellectuals in the 1950s, Karl Frankenstein, was a celebrated professor at Hebrew University and the man considered the father of the Israeli education system. Frankenstein expressed racist attitudes towards Mizrahim, writing, "We have to recognize the primitive mentality of many of the immigrants from backward countries." He further suggested that Mizrahi Jews have the mentality of primitive people who are somewhat mentally disturbed. Israeli sociologist Yosef Gross argued in the early 1950s that Mizrahi immigrants suffered from "mental regression." One of the worst examples of the anti-Mizrahi discrimination involves The Ashkenazi Revolution published in 1964 by writer Kalman Katzenelson in which the author argues that the Mizrahim suffer from irreversible genetic inferiority that endangers the superiority of the Ashkenazi-Zionist state. He called for the establishment of an apartheid regime that, among other limitations, would abolish their political rights. He also objected to mixed marriages and demanded the prohibition of the Hebrew language because it resembled Arabic too greatly. Instead he demanded that Yiddish become the national language because of its supreme Germanic origins. His book was a bestseller.
Enough with all this nonsense already! Take a look at the website later to see what I figured before looking at it. By Barry Chamish if a dog walks over the street its part of the conspiracy to eridacate Israel's alley cats.
ReplyDeletehttp://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2007/03/ringworm_hoax.html
Enough with all this nonsense already.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2007/03/ringworm_hoax.html
By Barry Chamish if a dog crosses the road it's part of the Left's conspiracy to eradicate right wing alley cats.
Daas Torah, is this your blog or is it the blog of the Jersey Girl?
ReplyDeleteJerseY Girl can design her own blog and those interested in her various POV's will know where to find them!!
You find your own blog, she is right & you are a BLIND BELIEVER expecting us as Jews to blindly believe too! I'm posting everywhere of the racism of Zionist toward other Jews, as I have experienced it personally and I am a natal Jew as all females have been in my history. Face the music, BB,it happened as the holocaust happened and is happening again.
DeleteIn connection to all this, I can't help but recall reading how the pre-State Zionists were quite passive and under-active in Holocaust rescue efforts. It seems now to be as if they harbored the same racist antipathies against certain Jews as the Nazis themselves had against all Jews.
ReplyDeleteA horrible thought, but I can't push it away very convincingly.
freelance,
ReplyDeleteDo not believe you are being fair, Palestine as Israel was called during WW2 was trying to stay alive under the British Mandate and Arab pogroms. How types of activities should they have engaged during this time? It is known that European Jews were not the yishuv's main concern, but I find it ridiculous that they could have initiated any rescue activities, (how about the poet Rachel??)
At least Jersey Girl's family members got to go home. Some were not so lucky.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.geocities.com/stop_abuse.geo/ymA.htm
Sorry, I meant to post these too:
ReplyDeleteThe scandal of the Yemenite children and the inquiry into their whereabouts was even published in the Lancet
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)63346-6/fulltext
Many wonder why no DNA testing on the alleged remain has been permitted despite the fact that the funds were raised abroad to pay for this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=l8t4b4zSde8C&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=yemenite+children&source=web&ots=Ia-x75D72Y&sig=AUZd6Jp2qgbaGIj5IiCZ-mR0pM0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result
http://www.ahavat-israel.com/protest/missing.php
http://www.ha-keshet.org.il/english/missing_yemenite.htm
http://www.geocities.com/stop_abuse.geo/ym.htm
Chabad was instrumental in rescuing dozens of Yemenite babies. One of these babies grew up to become a Rabbi and father of ten children. His daughter is the Rebbetzin of a Chabad shaliach, a prison chaplain for Aleph Institute. This is another case of Chabad saving a whole community by saving one precious neshama.
See:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.counterpunch.org/brenner1223.html
51 Documents:
Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis
by LENNI BRENNER
Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo.[3] [4] [5][6]
Francis R. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), pp. 54-55.; Karl A. Schleunes, The Twisted Road to Auschwitz (Urbana: Univ. of Illinois, 1970, 1990) pp. 178-181
[4] Jacob Boas, “A Nazi Travels to Palestine,” History Today (London), January, 1980, pp. 33-38.
[5] Facsimile reprint of front page of Das Schwarze Korp, May 15, 1935, in: Janusz Piekalkiewicz, Israels Langer Arm (Frankfurt: Goverts, 1975), pp. 66-67.
[6] Das Schwarze Korps, Sept. 26, 1935. Quoted in: F. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), pp. 56-57
Hitler himself personally supported Zionism.[7]
[7] F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 141-144; On Hitler’s critical view of Zionism in Mein Kapf, see. Esp. Vol. 1, Chap. 11. Quoted in: Robert Wistrich, Hitler’s Apocalypse (London: 1985), p. 155.;
[8] During the 1930’s, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized “Kibbutz” training camps[9] over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of “Israel”.[10]
[10] Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945 (New York: Bantam, pb., 1976), pp 253-254; Max Nussbaum, “Zionism Under Hitler,” Congress Weekly (New York: American Jewish Congress), Sept. 11, 1942.; F. Nicosia, The Third Reich (1985), pp 58-60, 217.; Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement (1984), p. 175
See also:
“Zionism and the Third Reich”, Author: Mark Weber, The Journal for Historical Review
(http://www.ihr.org), July/August 1993, Volume 13, Number 4, page 29.
Hitlers Zweites Buch – ein Dokument aus dem Jahr 1928, Stuttgart, 1961. English translation: Hitler’s Secret Book, New York, 1961, pp 212-215.
Berlin Encyclopaedia Judaica (New York and Jerusalem: 1971), Vol. 5, p.648.
See also, J.-C. Horak, “Zionist Film Propaganda in Nazi Germany,” Historical Journal of Film, Radio and Television, Vol. 4, No. 1, 1984, pp 49-58.
Perfidy, Author: Ben Hecht, Milah Press, Incorporated; April 1, 1997
Min Hameitzer, Author:Rabbi Weissmandl; The book Unheeded Cry by Abraham Fuchs, is a partial translation.
Holocaust Encyclopedia, “Escape from German Occupied Europe”, http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005470
“Immigration Policies”, Jewish Virtual Library, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/grobim.html
“The Tragedy of the S.S. St. Louis”, Jewish Virtual Library, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/stlouis.html
Jersey Girl, I wrote that back in the 50s radiation from x-ray machines was considered harmless.
ReplyDeleteThe radiation from Hiroshima and Nagasaki was from gamma rays, not X-rays and they are not the same. I wrote "gamma rays do not come from x-ray machines." Did you not read my article?
In 1950 the French gave X-ray treatment for ringworm to their citizens (obviously you overlooked that link in my article) so the French never heard of Hiroshima either?
But the most important link you overlooked is this one http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1643734&pageindex=1
in an American medical journal in 1949 (is that after Hiroshima?) that Xray treatment is the most effective one for ringworm - ha! in your face Jersey Girl.
Or will you now say that this report was written by Zionists in 1949 to prepare the way for Israel to practice genocide on darker Jews in the 1950s?
Don't just read what I write, read the links.
I didn't provide links to holocaust deniers or 9/11 truthers or other conspiracy whackos. The links I provided were all to medical journals, not one of which you bothered to refute. I made a statement and backed it up with links to respected scientific studies. You, on the other hand, simply say I use the same methods as holocaust deniers without proving anything.
Of course, the icing on the cake is this link http://fusioned.gat.com/images/pdf/radiation_poster.pdf that shows 450,000 millirem or 450 rem is a lethal dose in which 50% would die in 60 days. Chamish posits that Israel gave 35000 times .5 rad which I will multiply out for you is 17,500 rad or 1.7 million millirems. There is no chart for this much radiation. 100% of everyone in that room would be dead in days, doctors, nurses, everyone.
Another sign that this was all lies were that patients yelled out in pain. Please show one link in any medical journal that shows that xrays can induce pain - they do not and cannot at the time of administration. The pain can be felt months later but not from the xrays themselves but from damage to the tissues.
Nice try Jersey Girl, but next time come to my site directly where I will tear you apart.
Jersey Girl start your own blog, then we can choose or NOT choose to hear from your one sided views.
ReplyDeleteDear Bernie,
ReplyDeleteI did read your links, thank you, including the study you cited along with several other related studies on Pubmed. Radiation therapy for ringworm was tested in the 1940s in Japan on 276 patients and found to ineffective.
You are correct in stating that radiation was used in France as a treatment for ringworm, but you neglect to mention that it was administered by the Jewish Agency:
"At a certain stage of the campaign, which lasted until 1960, it was also decided to transfer radiation machines to the Jewish Agency transit camps in Marseilles and other places in Europe and to carry out the treatments there, while the children were still in transit from North Africa to Israel."
It was never used as a widespread treatment in the US or anywhere else because sulfas were both cheaper and more effective.
Radiation was not used as a wide scale as a treatment for ringworm anywhere in the world except for Israel and by the Jewish Agency in transit camps in France. And radiation was only used as a treatment/preventative for ringworm on Sephardic children and never on Ashkenazic children.
The question remains why, would an impoverished State of Israel spend a third of the Ministry of Health budget on preventative ringworm treatment for Sephardic children only when there were cheap and effective sulfas that were being used worldwide as the standard treatment of the time (these are still used in fact).
There was never any study showing that radiation PREVENTED ringworm.
Ringworm is easily detected under an inexpensive Wood's lamp. Why were children who did not show signs of the fungus irradiated? (Radiation therapy is expensive).
And since there were studies done during the 1940s showing that the known strain of ringworm did not affect non Caucasian children, why weren't Ashkenazic children irradiated while Sephardic children were?
But I don't need to make a case to you or anyone else because the case has already been made and won in the Knesset back in 1994. The Israeli gov't has admitted the wrong and the victims have been symbolically compensated.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/310/6976/350/a
So your feelings on this issue are really quite irrelevant. My point in discussing this tragedy is not to make a case, but merely to educate those of you who have never heard of this tragic chapter in the Zionist legacy.
"next time come to my site directly where I will tear you apart."
Is that YOUR reason for logging into this blog?
My reason for coming to this blog is to learn Torah and to participate in a discussion of Torah relevant topics. Obviously your purpose for coming here is to pan for carrion.
I don't blog because I am a staff writer for a Brooklyn Jewish newspaper, in addition to being an Accountant. Anything worth doing is better getting paid to do, don't you think???
Bernie -- a later report states that "6,000 of the children died shortly after their doses were given."
ReplyDeleteThat seems consistent with your statement that such a large dose would be quickly lethal. Obviously, the dosages on later children were lowered.
Anyway, you digress from the facts that matter in your red herring reply.
The real questions should be
"Why did so many children die from the treatment?"
"Why did the Israeli gov't admit it was true and offer compensation later?"
"Why was only ONE ethnic group given this treatment for an ailment that afflicted all ethnic groups to some extent?"
"Why was such a large precentage of children in that ethnic group given this treatment even when they did not have ringworm?"
"Why was it given as a preventative measure when there is no study available from any time showing that pre-emptive radiation prevents the onset of ringworm?"
"Even if they believed it would prevent the onset of ringworm, why was only ONE ethnic group given this treatment?"
You treat the issue as if it's a debating contest, with such childish displays as "Ha...in your face." Maybe you should meet some ringworm children survivors who have lost 6 siblings to brain cancer, and then we can see how smug you'll be.
Who said that the treatments never occurred? I said Chamish lied about the 35,000 times the known safe dose when in fact if it were true everyone, everyone, everyone would have died in days and more importantly, the maximum safe dose wasn't determned until 1969.
ReplyDeleteChamish took a real event and embellished it.
As for the Israeli court paying out compensation, that was for the damage done, not because it was done the way Chamish alleges.
One of my business associates was sued by someone who slipped in the street in front of his building. It was clearly a city problem not his but he offered 500 dollars rather than go to court to prove he was not liable. The other side took it.
Just because you agree to pay compensation does not mean that you are at fault. But accountants may not know that, they are not lawyers.
The US military on D-Day killed many French civilians. Only an imbecile would posit the notion that our government purposely targeted innocent civilians.
Tings happen, but not always with an evil, dark purpose.
So stop saying that I said it didn't happen. It happened. But not at 35,000 times a known dose; Chamish said he read the "official guidelines for x-ray treatment in 1952" - he's lying - certainly if he read such a thing he wouold have included the cite and source of this nonsense - no dose was known in 1952 (but accountants may not know that, they are not doctors), there was no pain at the time of treatment (it is physically impossible, that's all Hollywood), no one in 1950 thought x-rays were dangerous, the treatments were not hidden (I linked to hundreds of published studies by Israeli doctors over the years), the courts only acknowledged that the treatments hurt people but never admitted the Chamish absurdities; Sephardic women do not wear Henna to hide skin cancer but rather it is a tradition among Middle Eastern women in general.
The French treatments were for infections in a French kindergarten, not on Moroccan Jews, and besides, Chamish disagrees with you, in his ooutlandish email he states: "The Moroccans who fled to France became prosperous and highly educated. The common explanation was that France got the rich, thus smart ones. The real explanation is that every French Moroccan child didn't have his brain cells fried with gamma rays."
Chamish says that only the Moroccan children in Israel were x-rayed.
It happened. It was not an affair.
Arthur, I mentioned the 6,000 figure. Please google maximum xray dose and you will see that at 35,000 times maximum dose all 100,000 children would have been dead in days, including every single x-ray technician. Don't take my word for it, read.
ReplyDeleteThere would not have been one single survivor to make compensation claims today.
Also, giving compensation does not mean something is true, only that something happened, not that the Israeli govt purposely overdosed sephardi kids.
You are making claims based on unsourced statements. Give me one link where the court said, "Yes we overdosed them purposely and we received money from the Americans to experiment on them."
One link and I will put a huge headline on my Chamish Hoax post that I am a stupid idiot and that Chamish is 100% correct.
Go ahead, I await your non-reply.
Jersey Girl has all those incredible stories. My favorite one is about group of frum women who decided to start a commune and be single moms after they artificially inseminated by Jewish donors (I could save them money in that department).
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/01/shidduch-crises-easy-conversion.html
Seems like a lot of 90’S X-Files (I want to believe...)
http://img1.jurko.net/wall/paper/x_files_23.jpg
"group of frum women who decided to start a commune and be single moms after they artificially inseminated by Jewish donor (I could save them money in that department)."
ReplyDeleteMy post says:
"Two cousins of my husband's, both unmarried, committed, educated Jewish women in their 30s moved in with other Jewish women and conceived children (from Jewish sperm donors) that they plan to raise cooperatively."
My husband's cousins are Shabbat observant. They grew up in a traditional home and have an excellent Modern Orthodox/Conservadox education. They are not what most would call "frum" ie. Bnai Brak/ Boro Park or even Flatbush (Maybe Teaneck, Fairlawn, Pico Robertson, or Upper West Side).
A friend of mine teaches in a Conservative Day School in Long Island incidentally in the same community where my husband's cousins grew up. We discussed this phenomena when we spoke a few weeks ago. She told me that this has become very common and that her school is full of the children of women who were raised Modern Orthodox or traditional Conservative who say that they could not find Jewish men to marry so they chose to become single parents (in one way or another).
My friend (who has a Masters in Education and who has been in Jewish Education for 30 years, mostly in Orthodox Day Schools) believes that the Conservative movement has become a haven for Jewish mothers who were raised in more traditional (ie Orthodox or Conservadox) homes and who for one reason or another were unable to marry a Jew.
I have spoken to a number of people I know who are professionals in Jewish education and the informal consensus among all of them has been that it is quite possible that the Conservative Movement has become more halachically Jewish in population than most Orthodox communities in the US due to the large number of "Orthodox" conversions to permit intermarriages.
The Conservative movement could be attractive to single Jewish mothers because of the egalitarianism of its rituals. This would make it possible for a Jewish woman to function ritually as both mother and father to her children. To an Orthodox or traditionally raised woman, the Conservative movement would fill the need of egalitarianism without being as entirely foreign as Reform or Reconstructionist.
Perhaps there are some concrete statistics out there that will either support or refute this claim. I have not found them as of yet.
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteSurely you realize that no gov't would openly admit to any of their heinous deeds, and we all know that all gov't commit them.
The thing about the Ringworm Children that bothers me is that I personally know several entire families, who are not related to each other, who say this happened to them, who have rampant brain cancer in their families.
I understand that you are not denying the treatments occurred, but rather you are saying that the reports are surely exaggerated (due to the impossibly high doses mentioned) and that even though you might agree harm was done you cannot believe that it was done intentionally.
My knee-jerk reaction would be to agree with you, except for one problem: Ashkenazi children in Israel weren't given this treatment.
It's impossible to believe that Sephardi children were so prone to ringworm that thousands had to be given radiation treatments, while this fairly common affliction was totally absent amongst Ashkenazim. This is the part that bothers me. Why the different treatment? What does this imply?
Arthur, why the different treatment? Because the Ashkenazi Jews were bleeding heart compassionate liberals, that's why. If you read my article at Running rings around the victims which is a reprint from Haaretz, you will note that it was "medical-humanitarian campaign meant to benefit the olim (new immigrants) from the Arab countries, and turned into a terrible humanitarian tragedy." That's right, the white European Jews were concerned for the Jews from Arab countries. It was a fact and cannot be disputed that those Jews lived in crowded conditions, with poor hygiene which helped spread diseases like ringworm.
ReplyDeleteIf the Israeli government had done nothing in 1950 to help these immigrants, Chamish today would be writing that the nasty elite Askenazi Jews turned a blind eye to the health of immigrants from Arab countries, that they refused to sepnd a dime on the darker Jews.
Israel cannot win with self-loathing Jews. Do something right - get accused of overdosing, don't do anything, get accused of not caring.
"It was a fact and cannot be disputed that those Jews lived in crowded conditions, with poor hygiene which helped spread disease."
ReplyDeleteI don't know what or who you are talking about!! My family lived in Casablanca in a four bedroom ranch with an electric kitchen (in the 50s), imported French furniture,Persian rugs and all of my cousins wore designer French clothing, slept on nothing but fine French linens and wore Italian shoes.
My husband's family in Syria were also very well to do.
Most Jews in the Arab countries enjoyed a better standard of living than Mizrahi Jews in Israel do today, even among those who were born in Israel.
My family, who in Morocco made a living as electrical contractors, lived in Israel for 8 years in a corrugated tin shack in the Negev without running water or electricity. They were sprayed with DDT upon arrival and the children were irradiated.
Every one of my relatives who left Morocco for Israel regretted it and still does. Several of the next generation have returned to Morocco from Israel.
Thank G-d!! my immediate family was able to go to the US and Montreal instead of Israel or I would have been fried from irradiation and illiterate from attending schools that train Mizrahi kids only to be hairdressers, security guards or bricklayers like my cousins who went to Israel.
So far Mizrahi Jews in Israel have not been able to attain either the social status or standard of living that they once enjoyed in Egypt, Syria, Iraq or Morocco.
Why do you think that 35,000 Iranian Jews refuse to go to Israel even though Nefesh B'Nefesh and other Fundamental Christian funded organizations have offered them 10k per head to go???
They have it better in Iran than they ever would in Israel.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=251290
ReplyDeleteread it and weep as the documentary's viability comes crashing down.
I think it's funny how Shmuely copied and pasted his anti-zionist diatribe directly from the website of naturei karta freaks without crediting them and especially interesting is this:
ReplyDelete"Hitler himself personally supported Zionism.[7]
[7] F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 141-144; On Hitler’s critical view of Zionism in Mein Kapf, see. Esp. Vol. 1, Chap. 11. Quoted in: Robert Wistrich, Hitler’s Apocalypse (London: 1985), p. 155.; "
Can I ask Shmuely what the world "critical" means? Does he know what it means?
If I remember correctly, Hitler y"s originally wanted to deport Jews, so any movement designed to make Jews leave Germany was viewed positively. Later on the policy turned to one of extermination, and deportation was not viewed favorably. Likewise, the "critical" view on zionism from what I remember is that he said Jews were incapable of having a nation and would fall on their faces or that they were trying to set up some kind of "base" from which to rule over the world and con the world by congregating in one place. Yeah, real supportive.
The nuts are coming out of the woodwork.
Btw, speaking of copying and pasting, it appears that Jersey girl copy and pasted from Barry Chamish's site/articles or those of his colleague. So I'm wondering, does she have anything to add aside from what has already been claimed by Chamish?
ReplyDeleteI don't publish anonymous comments
ReplyDeleteI think the admin of this web page is in fact working hard in support of his site, as here every stuff is quality based information.
ReplyDelete