Rabbivinas has left a new comment on your post "Rabbi Vinas - the unanswered questions???":
In this post I will attempt to respond one more time to your questions in an attempt to clarify my positions and to educate your readers regarding the return of the anusim to Judaism and the nature of my work with my synagogue community of Lincoln Park Jewish Center in Yonkers and with the Hispanic/Latino Anusim community.
I was unable to answer your posts earlier due to the fact that my mother was niftar the day before LagLaOmer (Baomer for the rest of you) and I was in Shiva and shloshim for her. I'm surprised that my "fan club" (stalkers) who purport to know me personally, did not notify you of this fact and the fact that she was buried by a large number of Rabbanim Hashuvim who lauded her as a true tzadeket. My parents worked very, very hard sacrificing so that I could learn Torah and live and promote a Jewish life. They raised me to believe in the Torah and the poskim regardless of how bitter or ignorant the comments of others against gerim were. My mother (obm) always taught me that the ways of the Torah are “darchei noam” ways of pleasantness and truth. Assuming that you also believe this I will attempt to respond one more time assuming (based on the idea of being dan lekat zechut) that perhaps some of you might be seeking the truth just as I have all of my life. Also I learned that “Talmidei Chachamim marbim shalom baolam.” Since Torah scholars increase Peace in the world - it must be that your true intent is to spread peace and truth not hateful conjecture and lashon hara or motzee shem rah - I will assume once again this is the case and will answer.
Before I respond however to your questions - I will address the distasteful, insulting and down right ignorant comments of the person who posts under the name "Jerseygirl." Specifically - it was already clarified to you on here that I do not have and never claimed to have smicha from RIETS. I find your comments regarding gerim and their ability to lead others closer to the Torah filled with prejudice and distrust that has no basis in the Torah and is in fact prohibited by the Torah in no uncertain terms. You will not oppress the ger, you will not remind him of his past and One law you will have both for the native born and also for the ger. Creating a scenario where gerim are distrusted and suggesting that the ger would lead other Jews towards some form of christianity and suggesting that this has happened at my synagogue is a ridiculous notion and is a clear violation of the Torah you should be ashamed of yourself! Perhaps Shmaya and Avtalyon Unkelos and Akiva etc should also be suspected just as you suggest that other gerim ought to be. If I were you I would hang my head in shame and attempt to do teshuva. But this is virtually impossible for people who think and convince themselves that they are the only ones right or the only ones who know the truth. What sign do you see of anything with a christian influence at my shul? Nothing! How do you dare to say such disgusting things about other Jews and especially about gerim who you are doubly commanded to love! Its unbelievable that you think this is acceptable and I'm surprised that other readers of this blog haven't "cried foul" to such a travesty. I love my shul and its members are made up of people seeking the right life, seeking to come close to the Torah and attempting to live Torah observant lives don’t speak lashon harah about a community of people!
The "gentleman" who names himself “Bright Eyes” obviously does not know me personally as he claims he does. Those who know me and attend my shul would know right away that there are cases of giur that I have treated as exactly that Giur not anusim. Not all Latinos who have converted either through my auspices or others are claiming that they are anusim and I don’t treat all of them as such. The question that keeps coming up in my mind is what your motivation for saying these kinds of lies would be. Let me clarify to all of you what people who do know me already know. Not all gerim are anusim this includes Latinos or Hispanic Jews. All who seek giur are not treated as anusim. Stop the lies!
This is an opportunity to clarify the fact that as I have explained before based on the teshuva of Rav Aharon Soloveitchik and Rav Mordechai Eliahu that anusim require some form of halachic “return” ceremony. Soloveitchik calls it a giur lechumra Rav Moredchai Eliahu calls it a return ceremony. Both require mila, tevila and kabbalat hamitzvot. Geneology, DNA or other pseudo scientific proofs are not sufficient. I have always recommended the process of return or giur for anusim in order to ensure that their Jewish status does not remain questionable and that they are fully living lives of Jewish content and status according to Orthodox halacha. Having giur according to halacha should remove all stigma of doubt regarding their ancestry if you would just leave them alone to live life as they want according to the Torah.
Now I will respond to Daniel Eidensohns questions by the numbers that he placed on them. But as I respond I invite my readers to ask themselves why a Rav of an Orthodox congregation should have to respond at all to this level of insult and innuendo. And a further question would be why answer to this blog – who died and made you the poskim? Maybe I am required to answer because I’m a ger according to your estimation and therefore suspect. Well there goes the idea of one way of life for both gerim and born Jews. I’m going to respond however because there is a chance that you might be an authentic seeker of truth and honesty.
1. Regarding what I wrote you about safek deoraita lehumra: I was referring to the practice of discouraging a potential convert of non-Jewish origin. What if this person is really Jewish just as he claims? What if it is true that the person has a tradition in his family that remained unbroken just as he said and I discouraged him from returning to Judaism. That would be an avera risk that I am not willing to take. Rather I continue to follow the Takana of Rabbenu Gershom and the work of Rav Aboab de Fonseca and Rav Menashe Ben Israel because I did not see any expiration date on their takanot. And even if you say that their work was situational in that they were working while the problem existed during that generation directly after the inquisition, I posit to you that the problem persists and that this exchange of blogs proves that it is all too real and that controversy exists around it and therefore some form of halachic response must be offered. Since there are earlier poskim such as those I mentioned that responded already to this question when it already arose all we need to do is apply the mechanisms that the poskim already created earlier. A point of clarification regarding the history that you quote regarding proving genealogy during the 16 century: This was the case for people who simply wanted to be recognized as born Jews through matrilineal descent without giur as in the case of Rav Menashe Ben Israel whose family had converted to Catholicism and later escaped Portugal and went to Holland. Others who had Jewish descent either patrilinealy or could not prove it under went giur to reestablish themselves as part of the “nacion” in Holland. If you study the history of the family of Rav Menashe Ben Israel the entire statements of “Jerseygirl” making it seem that there was something wrong with the people who stayed in Spain and Portugal because they did not exercise the option to leave is actually a criticism of Rav Menashe’s family who does not deserve this criticism. Hindsight is always 20/20 especially when tempered by 500 years. The important thing is that they remained loyal to the Torah and at great personal risk have attempted to return to Jewish practice. Anusim will continue to return to Judaism whenever they want to. We will not subject ourselves to ridiculous questions like why not sooner? The answer is that we returned as soon as we saw that what we were living was Jewish customs – as soon as it became clear to us that we needed to return to our original identity. I don’t know why it takes generations for people to return to Torah, if it was in my ability I would have done it three generations ago but I wasn’t alive then I’m alive now and now is when I have chosen to live as a Jew and to help others do so as well. The return to Judaism is heroic in any generation it proves that “la sangre llama” the blood calls.
2. The second question is really an excellent trap laid very carefully. If I answer that I would respond to the goyim (who I was talking to) that they should cease to worship according to their religion and that they should follow only the true God of Israel and the Torah which is the only truth and only true path to Hashem (which is what I believe in) – you will answer that I am a proselytizer. If I respond just as I did according to the Tosafot (because I was placed during the interview into a position that I was afraid would reflect badly on us by insulting the majority of the readers of that interview who are Catholic or Goyim) then I am accused of being somehow soft on Christianity or worse yet being a christian and promoting christian practice or belief among Jews. Excellently laid trap. Except for one problem – you and your readers see through it. I responded using the Tosafot regarding the idea of the shituf because I wanted to not make the Jewish people and our beliefs odious to others. Some of you who use these blogs appear never to take that into consideration by the way. Some who read this material use it against our people, unfortunately making it appear that this type of name calling and innuendo is part of our holy tradition when it is not! Your commenter “steg” was the only person fair enough to see what I was saying, thank you. I am not a Christian. My mother and father were not Christians, the only religion I have ever known was Orthodox Judaism. I went to yeshivot all my life. I reject chrisitanity, the saints, the man god, the trinity, the supposed messiahship of any man who has ever lived, I do not believe that mashaiach has come or came or will return. I do not believe in the New testament or any other religious books or beliefs other than Judaism and the holy writings of our sages. I believe in Torah shebiktav and Torah she baal peh. It is insulting and degrading to place a ger into the position where he has to make these statements in a public form because a small group of Jews have dedicated hours of their time to try to bait him and make him look like something he is not. I hope that Hashem will heed the words of tachanun “shuv mecharon apecha…” because if a ger were to cry out to Hashem about this type of avera on your part and he responded accordingly it would not be good for our people or for you. This is not intended as a threat but as mussar – do teshuva - Hashem does not appreciate mistreatment of the ger. All Jews are required to reprimand each other and encourage teshuva and additionally since I have had the blessing of learning Torah I tell you on that authority that this is unacceptable.
3. The Institute for Jewish and Communal Research is a prestigious academic institution. It includes experts in many areas including demographics and studies of large populations. I am interested in studying the number of people in the world that claim Anusim ancestry. The Institute is one of the few academic research institutes that would undertake this study. Additionally they are studying other populations including Mizrahi, Ashkenazi, African American Jews and other situations that may or may not be halachic. There are many who attend these meetings that are born Jews and Halachically Jewish bechol hadeot. Since they trust me and have a relationship with me of respect and collegiality, I was able to make recommendations to them that facilitated the observance of kashrut, Shabbat etc. I advocate the study of the anusim. I advocate knowing the practices of these populations, the history and everything I need to know to see if they are authentic so that I can assist them in their return to Judaism. This institute is the only program in the world that will help me do a serious respectable study of these populations it is an absolute necessity for me in my work ( for which I have never apologized). Attending academic meetings and participating in research of Jewish populations does not require any permission of gedolim beyond review with my personal Rabbeim and I have done so. I have stated my interest clearly at all meetings of the institute and I applaud their work in studying populations that until now have not been studied. Dr. Gary Tobin and his wife Diane are scholars, they may not be Orthodox but they are frum enough to respect and love gerim and the Jewish People and they see their work as dedicated to helping the Jewish people grow and prosper. It may not be the same opinion as yours but we must admit that there are dedicated to the study of the Jewish people and that their academic work is unparalleled and unequalled.
4. Regarding being the Rav of a shul. According to Rav J.B. Soloveitchik a ger may be given smicha based upon the Tosafot in Kiddushin 71a that quotes a position of Rav Avraham Hager – he notes that obviously he had been given the title of Rav even though he was a ger.
You are correct it does not require a major posek to rule that I can serve as the Rav of my shul. A clear answer to this question is presented in Teshuvot VeHanhagot (Vol. III:305) where the Gaon R. Moshe Sternbuch discusses whether a ger may be appointed as a rabbi or as dean of a yeshiva, a Rosh Yeshiva. At issue, as you noted, is that when the Torah directs us (Deuteronomy 17:15) to set upon ourselves a king from "amidst our brethren," meaning that the one chosen must be born a Jew, the Gemara (Kiddushin 76b) explains that this direction extends to all appointments of authority. R. Sternbuch notes an inconsistency. Rambam, in his opening discussion to his Mishneh Torah, lists the mesora, the chain of those who ensured continuance of the oral traditions of the Torah from Moses at Mt. Sinai. Rambam includes in that chain Shemaya and Abtalyon who are referred to as gerei tzedek, righteous proselytes. The two sat at the head of the Beit Din, which seems odd since those who assume that position must be eligible to rule on capital offenses as well. As gerim they would be ineligible to do so, thus they actually were ineligible to assume leadership of the Sanhedrin. Yet we find in the Gemara (Chagiga 16a-b) that they were indeed in that chain: one was Nasi (prince, president) and the other was Av Beit Din (head judge). Therefore R. Sternbuch explains that the rule that would exclude a ger from the Sanhedrin applies where there is a choice of candidates for the job. However, if we find that the ger is truly great in Torah unlike any other candidate, and all recognize this, he would be eligible to assume the role, provided he has mastered the oral tradition as well as the written one. R. Sternbuch cites Rivah's commentary on Parashat Shoftim (Deuteronomy 17:55), where we learn that when there is no better candidate for a position, a ger is certainly eligible to assume it, and thus he would also be eligible to rule on capital cases. Consequently, that ger would be eligible to head the Beit Din or Sanhedrin. This is what happened with Shemaya and Abtalyon. Regarding the original question posed to him about a ger serving as Rosh Mesivta (head of post-high school Torah study), R. Sternbuch seems to feel that this would be permitted, since the prohibition applies to the trappings or political aspects of the office. Also, as Rosh Mesivta ( or Rav of a shul) one is not considered to be holding an office that one may bequeath to one's children. Rather, such a person is chosen for his great Torah scholarship and fear of G-d. This position is unlike a king's position and other political appointments that include great displays of honor in society and are (at times) subsequently bequeathed to the children. Even those halachic authorities who disagree with the ruling that a ger may serve as head or dean of a yeshiva would agree that a ger would be qualified as a Rosh Mesivta or Maggid Shiur (lecturer), should the choice of candidates include a ger who is a better choice than the others.
And by the way a ger may also serve as a dayan in cases of giur. This is clear from Rava in Yevamot 102a. He says that the pasuk you cite proves that a ger may serve other gerim since he is their brother. Rava says that if he has a Jewish Mother he may serve in cases where dinei mamonot are also involved. Rashi says that Rava must have been excluding gerim only in cases of dinei nefashot he cites Sanhedrin 32 a as proof of this. There the mishnah says that “all” are qualifies to serve as dayan in dinei mamonot the gemara Sanhedrin 36 b uses the word “all” to include gerim. Tosafot brings up a contradiction however, Yevamot 45b Rava allowed Rav Mari bar Rachel the son of a male convert to be appointed to a position of leadership only because his mother was a born Jewish, Tosafot resolves the conflict by saying that the gemara must be allowing gerim to be dayanim over other gerim in dinei mamonot as well. Tosafot disagrees with Rashi that gerim cannot be dayanim in dinei mamonot for born Jews but all agree according to him that he may serve other gerim. Nimukei Yosef holds the same way that a ger may only serve as a dayan in cases involving other gerim but he arrives at this conclusion based on the halachot of dayanut in halitza. Where the dayan must have both parents being born Jewish. The Tur in Yoreh Deah (269) holds that a ger may serve as a dayan if all concerned accept him as a dayan.
The work of being a shul Rabbi is hard work if you undertake to build the type of community that I am building. The shul was not Orthodox it was conservative. The members agreed to change to Orthodox as a condition of hiring me. No other Rav was able to achieve what I achieved until I got here. This certainly qualifies me for my position. I am not an “am haaretz” I know how to teach Torah and to persuade other Jews to observe the Torah. This qualifies me for my position. The community has accepted me as their teacher and leader and as their posek. Since this would even qualify me as a dayan it certainly qualifies me as a Rav of a shul.
Additionally my personal situation is not a clear cut case of giur. It is a situation of lashuv darchei avotav according to Rav Mordechai Eliahu. There is no valid reason to exclude me. Additionally I might clarify to you that I was in no way looking to become a shul Rabbi. I went to that shul (that I now love tremendously) to fix their sifrei Torah and they approached me. I accepted the position because I saw that I was suited to create progress here and that’s exactly what I have done. I agree with you Daniel if a better candidate were to emerge I would be happy to live my life out easily as a college professor which I could do without all this controversy and I’d give him the job. I’m not sure the community would accept that however, they don’t want to lose me and have expressed this to me in no uncertain terms. I will never ever cease my holy work with the anusim however. This is because I gave my word to my grandfather that I would do it and now I am even stronger due to the passing of my beloved mother who was from the anusim nad sought that all of us should come home. My background is no secret to the members of my shul or to anyone else. I told you I am not ashamed I am proud of my ancestors. My work with the anusim has been discussed throughout my time as Rabbi of the synagogue it is no secret. The fact that I am active in giur is no secret either and the fact that I am accepting of Jewish diversity racial and ethnic and that I welcome and affirm it is no secret either. No undercover work needs to be done here, nothing on our side is under cover if you want to visit with us let us know and we will host you for shabbos.
I will no longer respond to any of these blogs about me. They have created too much emotional pain for me. It hurts me to know that there is a group of individuals out there that would actively seek to put a Rav who has dedicated his life to Torah and the Jewish community into the bitter position of focusing negative attention on him because they consider him a ger that he must assert himself and clarify his beliefs. As I told you earlier its wrong to do this to gerim, to other people, to other Jews etc. It worries me that people reading this might think that your behavior is part of our holy Torah beliefs but it isn’t. Your path of doubt, distrust and innuendo is the one that is far from the path of Torah not ours. The path of Torah is Darchei Noam. Stop before you create a hillul Hashem. I hope that non-Jews and other Jews don't think this is "normal" Jewish behavior. The rest of us respect each other, respect other Jews observant or non, respect gentiles it is only an extreme fringe that behaves this way please don't judge the rest of us Orthodox Jews based upon these pages.
Abravanel has a wonderful comment on Sefer Devarim Perek Chapter 30 : "Hashem will return the Jews who are exiled and he will have mercy on them and He will return and gather you from among the nations." Abravanel explain that this double language is to state that the first group of returns will be the Jews who were openly Jewish. Since they suffered among the gentiles they will be brought back with mercy. The second time it says "return" he explains it is speaking about people who were forced away from Judaism against their will, he uses the term "anasam." This second group will also be gathered from among the nations and brought back - just as Hashem is keeping his promise to us right now. Some of us see it some don't.
Shalom lekulam
In this post I will attempt to respond one more time to your questions in an attempt to clarify my positions and to educate your readers regarding the return of the anusim to Judaism and the nature of my work with my synagogue community of Lincoln Park Jewish Center in Yonkers and with the Hispanic/Latino Anusim community.
I was unable to answer your posts earlier due to the fact that my mother was niftar the day before LagLaOmer (Baomer for the rest of you) and I was in Shiva and shloshim for her. I'm surprised that my "fan club" (stalkers) who purport to know me personally, did not notify you of this fact and the fact that she was buried by a large number of Rabbanim Hashuvim who lauded her as a true tzadeket. My parents worked very, very hard sacrificing so that I could learn Torah and live and promote a Jewish life. They raised me to believe in the Torah and the poskim regardless of how bitter or ignorant the comments of others against gerim were. My mother (obm) always taught me that the ways of the Torah are “darchei noam” ways of pleasantness and truth. Assuming that you also believe this I will attempt to respond one more time assuming (based on the idea of being dan lekat zechut) that perhaps some of you might be seeking the truth just as I have all of my life. Also I learned that “Talmidei Chachamim marbim shalom baolam.” Since Torah scholars increase Peace in the world - it must be that your true intent is to spread peace and truth not hateful conjecture and lashon hara or motzee shem rah - I will assume once again this is the case and will answer.
Before I respond however to your questions - I will address the distasteful, insulting and down right ignorant comments of the person who posts under the name "Jerseygirl." Specifically - it was already clarified to you on here that I do not have and never claimed to have smicha from RIETS. I find your comments regarding gerim and their ability to lead others closer to the Torah filled with prejudice and distrust that has no basis in the Torah and is in fact prohibited by the Torah in no uncertain terms. You will not oppress the ger, you will not remind him of his past and One law you will have both for the native born and also for the ger. Creating a scenario where gerim are distrusted and suggesting that the ger would lead other Jews towards some form of christianity and suggesting that this has happened at my synagogue is a ridiculous notion and is a clear violation of the Torah you should be ashamed of yourself! Perhaps Shmaya and Avtalyon Unkelos and Akiva etc should also be suspected just as you suggest that other gerim ought to be. If I were you I would hang my head in shame and attempt to do teshuva. But this is virtually impossible for people who think and convince themselves that they are the only ones right or the only ones who know the truth. What sign do you see of anything with a christian influence at my shul? Nothing! How do you dare to say such disgusting things about other Jews and especially about gerim who you are doubly commanded to love! Its unbelievable that you think this is acceptable and I'm surprised that other readers of this blog haven't "cried foul" to such a travesty. I love my shul and its members are made up of people seeking the right life, seeking to come close to the Torah and attempting to live Torah observant lives don’t speak lashon harah about a community of people!
The "gentleman" who names himself “Bright Eyes” obviously does not know me personally as he claims he does. Those who know me and attend my shul would know right away that there are cases of giur that I have treated as exactly that Giur not anusim. Not all Latinos who have converted either through my auspices or others are claiming that they are anusim and I don’t treat all of them as such. The question that keeps coming up in my mind is what your motivation for saying these kinds of lies would be. Let me clarify to all of you what people who do know me already know. Not all gerim are anusim this includes Latinos or Hispanic Jews. All who seek giur are not treated as anusim. Stop the lies!
This is an opportunity to clarify the fact that as I have explained before based on the teshuva of Rav Aharon Soloveitchik and Rav Mordechai Eliahu that anusim require some form of halachic “return” ceremony. Soloveitchik calls it a giur lechumra Rav Moredchai Eliahu calls it a return ceremony. Both require mila, tevila and kabbalat hamitzvot. Geneology, DNA or other pseudo scientific proofs are not sufficient. I have always recommended the process of return or giur for anusim in order to ensure that their Jewish status does not remain questionable and that they are fully living lives of Jewish content and status according to Orthodox halacha. Having giur according to halacha should remove all stigma of doubt regarding their ancestry if you would just leave them alone to live life as they want according to the Torah.
Now I will respond to Daniel Eidensohns questions by the numbers that he placed on them. But as I respond I invite my readers to ask themselves why a Rav of an Orthodox congregation should have to respond at all to this level of insult and innuendo. And a further question would be why answer to this blog – who died and made you the poskim? Maybe I am required to answer because I’m a ger according to your estimation and therefore suspect. Well there goes the idea of one way of life for both gerim and born Jews. I’m going to respond however because there is a chance that you might be an authentic seeker of truth and honesty.
1. Regarding what I wrote you about safek deoraita lehumra: I was referring to the practice of discouraging a potential convert of non-Jewish origin. What if this person is really Jewish just as he claims? What if it is true that the person has a tradition in his family that remained unbroken just as he said and I discouraged him from returning to Judaism. That would be an avera risk that I am not willing to take. Rather I continue to follow the Takana of Rabbenu Gershom and the work of Rav Aboab de Fonseca and Rav Menashe Ben Israel because I did not see any expiration date on their takanot. And even if you say that their work was situational in that they were working while the problem existed during that generation directly after the inquisition, I posit to you that the problem persists and that this exchange of blogs proves that it is all too real and that controversy exists around it and therefore some form of halachic response must be offered. Since there are earlier poskim such as those I mentioned that responded already to this question when it already arose all we need to do is apply the mechanisms that the poskim already created earlier. A point of clarification regarding the history that you quote regarding proving genealogy during the 16 century: This was the case for people who simply wanted to be recognized as born Jews through matrilineal descent without giur as in the case of Rav Menashe Ben Israel whose family had converted to Catholicism and later escaped Portugal and went to Holland. Others who had Jewish descent either patrilinealy or could not prove it under went giur to reestablish themselves as part of the “nacion” in Holland. If you study the history of the family of Rav Menashe Ben Israel the entire statements of “Jerseygirl” making it seem that there was something wrong with the people who stayed in Spain and Portugal because they did not exercise the option to leave is actually a criticism of Rav Menashe’s family who does not deserve this criticism. Hindsight is always 20/20 especially when tempered by 500 years. The important thing is that they remained loyal to the Torah and at great personal risk have attempted to return to Jewish practice. Anusim will continue to return to Judaism whenever they want to. We will not subject ourselves to ridiculous questions like why not sooner? The answer is that we returned as soon as we saw that what we were living was Jewish customs – as soon as it became clear to us that we needed to return to our original identity. I don’t know why it takes generations for people to return to Torah, if it was in my ability I would have done it three generations ago but I wasn’t alive then I’m alive now and now is when I have chosen to live as a Jew and to help others do so as well. The return to Judaism is heroic in any generation it proves that “la sangre llama” the blood calls.
2. The second question is really an excellent trap laid very carefully. If I answer that I would respond to the goyim (who I was talking to) that they should cease to worship according to their religion and that they should follow only the true God of Israel and the Torah which is the only truth and only true path to Hashem (which is what I believe in) – you will answer that I am a proselytizer. If I respond just as I did according to the Tosafot (because I was placed during the interview into a position that I was afraid would reflect badly on us by insulting the majority of the readers of that interview who are Catholic or Goyim) then I am accused of being somehow soft on Christianity or worse yet being a christian and promoting christian practice or belief among Jews. Excellently laid trap. Except for one problem – you and your readers see through it. I responded using the Tosafot regarding the idea of the shituf because I wanted to not make the Jewish people and our beliefs odious to others. Some of you who use these blogs appear never to take that into consideration by the way. Some who read this material use it against our people, unfortunately making it appear that this type of name calling and innuendo is part of our holy tradition when it is not! Your commenter “steg” was the only person fair enough to see what I was saying, thank you. I am not a Christian. My mother and father were not Christians, the only religion I have ever known was Orthodox Judaism. I went to yeshivot all my life. I reject chrisitanity, the saints, the man god, the trinity, the supposed messiahship of any man who has ever lived, I do not believe that mashaiach has come or came or will return. I do not believe in the New testament or any other religious books or beliefs other than Judaism and the holy writings of our sages. I believe in Torah shebiktav and Torah she baal peh. It is insulting and degrading to place a ger into the position where he has to make these statements in a public form because a small group of Jews have dedicated hours of their time to try to bait him and make him look like something he is not. I hope that Hashem will heed the words of tachanun “shuv mecharon apecha…” because if a ger were to cry out to Hashem about this type of avera on your part and he responded accordingly it would not be good for our people or for you. This is not intended as a threat but as mussar – do teshuva - Hashem does not appreciate mistreatment of the ger. All Jews are required to reprimand each other and encourage teshuva and additionally since I have had the blessing of learning Torah I tell you on that authority that this is unacceptable.
3. The Institute for Jewish and Communal Research is a prestigious academic institution. It includes experts in many areas including demographics and studies of large populations. I am interested in studying the number of people in the world that claim Anusim ancestry. The Institute is one of the few academic research institutes that would undertake this study. Additionally they are studying other populations including Mizrahi, Ashkenazi, African American Jews and other situations that may or may not be halachic. There are many who attend these meetings that are born Jews and Halachically Jewish bechol hadeot. Since they trust me and have a relationship with me of respect and collegiality, I was able to make recommendations to them that facilitated the observance of kashrut, Shabbat etc. I advocate the study of the anusim. I advocate knowing the practices of these populations, the history and everything I need to know to see if they are authentic so that I can assist them in their return to Judaism. This institute is the only program in the world that will help me do a serious respectable study of these populations it is an absolute necessity for me in my work ( for which I have never apologized). Attending academic meetings and participating in research of Jewish populations does not require any permission of gedolim beyond review with my personal Rabbeim and I have done so. I have stated my interest clearly at all meetings of the institute and I applaud their work in studying populations that until now have not been studied. Dr. Gary Tobin and his wife Diane are scholars, they may not be Orthodox but they are frum enough to respect and love gerim and the Jewish People and they see their work as dedicated to helping the Jewish people grow and prosper. It may not be the same opinion as yours but we must admit that there are dedicated to the study of the Jewish people and that their academic work is unparalleled and unequalled.
4. Regarding being the Rav of a shul. According to Rav J.B. Soloveitchik a ger may be given smicha based upon the Tosafot in Kiddushin 71a that quotes a position of Rav Avraham Hager – he notes that obviously he had been given the title of Rav even though he was a ger.
You are correct it does not require a major posek to rule that I can serve as the Rav of my shul. A clear answer to this question is presented in Teshuvot VeHanhagot (Vol. III:305) where the Gaon R. Moshe Sternbuch discusses whether a ger may be appointed as a rabbi or as dean of a yeshiva, a Rosh Yeshiva. At issue, as you noted, is that when the Torah directs us (Deuteronomy 17:15) to set upon ourselves a king from "amidst our brethren," meaning that the one chosen must be born a Jew, the Gemara (Kiddushin 76b) explains that this direction extends to all appointments of authority. R. Sternbuch notes an inconsistency. Rambam, in his opening discussion to his Mishneh Torah, lists the mesora, the chain of those who ensured continuance of the oral traditions of the Torah from Moses at Mt. Sinai. Rambam includes in that chain Shemaya and Abtalyon who are referred to as gerei tzedek, righteous proselytes. The two sat at the head of the Beit Din, which seems odd since those who assume that position must be eligible to rule on capital offenses as well. As gerim they would be ineligible to do so, thus they actually were ineligible to assume leadership of the Sanhedrin. Yet we find in the Gemara (Chagiga 16a-b) that they were indeed in that chain: one was Nasi (prince, president) and the other was Av Beit Din (head judge). Therefore R. Sternbuch explains that the rule that would exclude a ger from the Sanhedrin applies where there is a choice of candidates for the job. However, if we find that the ger is truly great in Torah unlike any other candidate, and all recognize this, he would be eligible to assume the role, provided he has mastered the oral tradition as well as the written one. R. Sternbuch cites Rivah's commentary on Parashat Shoftim (Deuteronomy 17:55), where we learn that when there is no better candidate for a position, a ger is certainly eligible to assume it, and thus he would also be eligible to rule on capital cases. Consequently, that ger would be eligible to head the Beit Din or Sanhedrin. This is what happened with Shemaya and Abtalyon. Regarding the original question posed to him about a ger serving as Rosh Mesivta (head of post-high school Torah study), R. Sternbuch seems to feel that this would be permitted, since the prohibition applies to the trappings or political aspects of the office. Also, as Rosh Mesivta ( or Rav of a shul) one is not considered to be holding an office that one may bequeath to one's children. Rather, such a person is chosen for his great Torah scholarship and fear of G-d. This position is unlike a king's position and other political appointments that include great displays of honor in society and are (at times) subsequently bequeathed to the children. Even those halachic authorities who disagree with the ruling that a ger may serve as head or dean of a yeshiva would agree that a ger would be qualified as a Rosh Mesivta or Maggid Shiur (lecturer), should the choice of candidates include a ger who is a better choice than the others.
And by the way a ger may also serve as a dayan in cases of giur. This is clear from Rava in Yevamot 102a. He says that the pasuk you cite proves that a ger may serve other gerim since he is their brother. Rava says that if he has a Jewish Mother he may serve in cases where dinei mamonot are also involved. Rashi says that Rava must have been excluding gerim only in cases of dinei nefashot he cites Sanhedrin 32 a as proof of this. There the mishnah says that “all” are qualifies to serve as dayan in dinei mamonot the gemara Sanhedrin 36 b uses the word “all” to include gerim. Tosafot brings up a contradiction however, Yevamot 45b Rava allowed Rav Mari bar Rachel the son of a male convert to be appointed to a position of leadership only because his mother was a born Jewish, Tosafot resolves the conflict by saying that the gemara must be allowing gerim to be dayanim over other gerim in dinei mamonot as well. Tosafot disagrees with Rashi that gerim cannot be dayanim in dinei mamonot for born Jews but all agree according to him that he may serve other gerim. Nimukei Yosef holds the same way that a ger may only serve as a dayan in cases involving other gerim but he arrives at this conclusion based on the halachot of dayanut in halitza. Where the dayan must have both parents being born Jewish. The Tur in Yoreh Deah (269) holds that a ger may serve as a dayan if all concerned accept him as a dayan.
The work of being a shul Rabbi is hard work if you undertake to build the type of community that I am building. The shul was not Orthodox it was conservative. The members agreed to change to Orthodox as a condition of hiring me. No other Rav was able to achieve what I achieved until I got here. This certainly qualifies me for my position. I am not an “am haaretz” I know how to teach Torah and to persuade other Jews to observe the Torah. This qualifies me for my position. The community has accepted me as their teacher and leader and as their posek. Since this would even qualify me as a dayan it certainly qualifies me as a Rav of a shul.
Additionally my personal situation is not a clear cut case of giur. It is a situation of lashuv darchei avotav according to Rav Mordechai Eliahu. There is no valid reason to exclude me. Additionally I might clarify to you that I was in no way looking to become a shul Rabbi. I went to that shul (that I now love tremendously) to fix their sifrei Torah and they approached me. I accepted the position because I saw that I was suited to create progress here and that’s exactly what I have done. I agree with you Daniel if a better candidate were to emerge I would be happy to live my life out easily as a college professor which I could do without all this controversy and I’d give him the job. I’m not sure the community would accept that however, they don’t want to lose me and have expressed this to me in no uncertain terms. I will never ever cease my holy work with the anusim however. This is because I gave my word to my grandfather that I would do it and now I am even stronger due to the passing of my beloved mother who was from the anusim nad sought that all of us should come home. My background is no secret to the members of my shul or to anyone else. I told you I am not ashamed I am proud of my ancestors. My work with the anusim has been discussed throughout my time as Rabbi of the synagogue it is no secret. The fact that I am active in giur is no secret either and the fact that I am accepting of Jewish diversity racial and ethnic and that I welcome and affirm it is no secret either. No undercover work needs to be done here, nothing on our side is under cover if you want to visit with us let us know and we will host you for shabbos.
I will no longer respond to any of these blogs about me. They have created too much emotional pain for me. It hurts me to know that there is a group of individuals out there that would actively seek to put a Rav who has dedicated his life to Torah and the Jewish community into the bitter position of focusing negative attention on him because they consider him a ger that he must assert himself and clarify his beliefs. As I told you earlier its wrong to do this to gerim, to other people, to other Jews etc. It worries me that people reading this might think that your behavior is part of our holy Torah beliefs but it isn’t. Your path of doubt, distrust and innuendo is the one that is far from the path of Torah not ours. The path of Torah is Darchei Noam. Stop before you create a hillul Hashem. I hope that non-Jews and other Jews don't think this is "normal" Jewish behavior. The rest of us respect each other, respect other Jews observant or non, respect gentiles it is only an extreme fringe that behaves this way please don't judge the rest of us Orthodox Jews based upon these pages.
Abravanel has a wonderful comment on Sefer Devarim Perek Chapter 30 : "Hashem will return the Jews who are exiled and he will have mercy on them and He will return and gather you from among the nations." Abravanel explain that this double language is to state that the first group of returns will be the Jews who were openly Jewish. Since they suffered among the gentiles they will be brought back with mercy. The second time it says "return" he explains it is speaking about people who were forced away from Judaism against their will, he uses the term "anasam." This second group will also be gathered from among the nations and brought back - just as Hashem is keeping his promise to us right now. Some of us see it some don't.
Shalom lekulam
All I can say in response to this post is -- wow!
ReplyDeleteI think it is clear that an apology to Rabbi Vinas (and to his gerim) is called for. But I also think it is clear that Rabbi Eidensohn deserves to be seriously commended for having the guts and the honesty to post this on his blog.
I am speechless. Kudos to Rav Vinas. He should continue his holy work which should be unfettered by stigma.
ReplyDeleteYasher Koach Rabbi Vinas!
ReplyDeleteYou are 100% correct.
"Jersey Girl" is a frustrated disgusting person who has a bunch of wackos in her family tree. She judges what the rest of what the world does according to her experiences with these strange people. Ignore her ignorance & hatred. But please do continue to rebuke the evil she spews.
Rabbi Eidensohn is trying to do the right thing. He listens and admits when he is wrong. I give him much credit for that.
Chazak chazak Rabbi Vilnas.
"I was unable to answer your posts earlier due to the fact that my mother was niftar the day before LagLaOmer (Baomer for the rest of you) and I was in Shiva and shloshim for her."
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to hear about your mother. I knew her to be a very nice and kind woman.
Manny, you are a ger. Your parents never claimed to be born Jews nor did your mother document maternal Jewish descent for the 500 years in which your family was separated from the Jewish community.
A ger does not sit shiva or mourn for the woman who birthed him.
There is an assur to sit shiva if you are not an avel YD 376:3 Gemara in Moed Katan Daf 27: and Shulchan aruch and Miparshim where it is clear that mourning more than required is not to be done.
The Shulchan Aruch says in Yore Deah Siman 374 #5, a convert who converted with his (biological) sons or a servant who was freed with his (biological) mother, do not sit Shiva on each other.
Rambam in Hilchot Avel Perek #2 Halacha #3 that starts off with a case of a Jewish father who has a son from a maid. They do not sit Shiva for each other.
While this may seem "unfair" we don't understand aveilut on our human/emotional levels. As we don't understand many other parts of the Torah.
This blog is about HALACHA AFAIK.
If I have said something that is against HALACHA and someone can cite a reference, I am here to learn just like everyone else.
Meanwhile, to just hurl out epitaphs such as "ignorance & hatred.....please do continue to rebuke the evil she spews." in response to my citing what I believe to be Torah references and believing in the Divine Origin of the Torah and the Psak of our Rabbis can only be construed as baseless hatred.
Have I said anything that I have not tried to support by citing Rabbinical literature? If you disagree with the opinions I cite, then please cite alternative sources.
You, Manny Vinas, were asked for HALACHIC sources to support the proselytizing that you do to Gentiles and you have provided nothing.
You were also asked for halachic basis for the statements that you made to the Spanish language Press. All you have done is divert the attention away from yourself to the Tobins.
Is this a blog about Halacha and Daas Torah or is this the online Spanish Inquisition where the purpose is to denigrate Jews who have belief in the One True G-d, the Divine Origin of the Torah and the Psak of the Gadolim?
The so called "whackos" on my family tree include a current Chief Rabbi and two deceased Chief Rabbis (both of my parents are from families of Chief Rabbis). My family is well known and regarded. (I am happy to provide a detailed family tree to Rabbi Eidensohn privately).
Jersey Girl,
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of poskim who permit a ger to do avelus and even say kaddish for a biological parent. The kesher of human gratitude for a lifetime relationship with a parent is not ended through conversion, even if a formal halakhic relationship is. That lifetime relationship may be mourned in halachic modes, even if a formal halachic obligation to do so is not present.
Your insensitive comment is a perfect example of what Chazal meant by the idea of "banu mi-kedushah chamurah li-kedushah kalah" (which is exactly why a ger is obligated in kibbud av va-em according to the Rambam). You seem to "mean" well, but you come across just plain... mean. Really mean.
And the people you come across as mean to aren't ignoramuses. Some of them seem to know more Torah than you do.
Rabbi Eidensohn, although I am someone who generally thinks nearly all comments should be allowed so that the truth gets out, I think there is something unusually wrong in this case. Maybe it's time to disallow this person's comments.
Rabbi Vinas, an excellent author, makes a couple of statements here that jump out at me:
ReplyDelete"1. I was referring to the practice of discouraging a potential convert of non-Jewish origin. What if this person is really Jewish just as he claims? What if it is true that the person has a tradition in his family that remained unbroken just as he said and I discouraged him from returning to Judaism. That would be an avera risk that I am not willing to take. Rather I continue to follow the Takana of Rabbenu Gershom and the work of Rav Aboab de Fonseca and Rav Menashe Ben Israel because I did not see any expiration date on their takanot."
Rabbi Vinas would imply that we have 3 categories here: Jew, Gentile, and ‘sort of’ Jew.
It doesn't work that way. If someone needs to convert, it is because they are a goy.
His slick answer makes the reader focus on his "kind heart" rather than his bold proselytizing.
The three Rabbeim he refers to based their ruling on the fact that such the people in question could make a legitimate argument that they were actually Jewish because of the short passage of time since they were forced into public acceptance of Christianity.
Rabbi Eidensohn asked for a source within the last few hundred years, and this does not meet that request.
"2. If I respond just as I did according to the Tosafot (because I was placed during the interview into a position that I was afraid would reflect badly on us by insulting the majority of the readers of that interview who are Catholic or Goyim) then I am accused of being somehow soft on Christianity or worse yet being a christian and promoting christian practice or belief among Jews. Excellently laid trap. Except for one problem – you and your readers see through it. I responded using the Tosafot regarding the idea of the shituf because I wanted to not make the Jewish people and our beliefs odious to others."
Here Rabbi Vinas would have us conclude that he was put on the spot in a public debate such as Tosafot. What nonsense!
Besides,if you read the interviews in question, you can clearly see he wasn't answering an uncomfortable question in a "politically correct" manner....he was simply preaching...giving a speech. His answer is dishonest and again deflective of the question.
He further says: "I am not a Christian. My mother and father were not Christians, the only religion I have ever known was Orthodox Judaism. I went to yeshivot all my life."
This is a lie which can be proven with Vinas’ own words.
In his own self written biography, Vinas says while describing his 'converso' family customs that "In general, the family considered itself Catholic. We did not consider our customs to be religious; they were simply a way of connecting with our ancestors’ way of life."
Later, in the same article, Vinas describes how his family "returned". Before reading this moving story, keep in mind that Vinas just stated for the record that Orthodox Jewish life is all he ever knew:
"In the 1970s my sister, who was three years old, was diagnosed with Leukemia. This was a devastating blow to my parents. They had very little money for her treatment and were strangers in a new country, lacking even the ability to communicate with others in English.
Along with medical care, they sought the help of God. My father began to visit churches and houses of worship of many denominations.”
Note that he visited Churches, but not synagogues yet. Clearly his first inclination is the church.
Story continues:
“One Saturday, as he drove by the synagogue, he decided to enter that place and pray there as well. He felt so comfortable there that he returned many times. During his visits to the synagogue, he saw that the customs that his family had been practicing were incredibly much the same as the ones being practiced by the rest of the congregation. The congregation was officially Orthodox but can best be described by today's standards as a Traditional (Conservadox) congregation. ( The siddur was Orthodox, and men and women sat separately, but there was no dividing wall between them.) He began to learn more, discovering the history of the Spanish Inquisition and what Anousim, or "Marranos," are. He realized that he was home. After my sister’s death our return to Judaism intensified. It is clear to us to this day that the circumstances around her illness were what God had used to draw us near to the Torah and bring us back home to the Jewish People.
As part of our strong return to who we are, my parents enrolled us in yeshivot and Jewish Day Schools so that we would be better educated and be able to live fully Jewish lives."
The full interview appears here http://www.kulanu.org/newsletters/2003-spring.pdf
If you look further at the Kulanu newsletter, you will see that their “Anousim and Jewish-Christian Affairs Coordinator” is none other than Yaffah Batya DaCosta, who is a known missionary. Kulanu, an organization which Vinas supports, says right there in the newsletter that they offer “conversion when requested.”
Rabbi Vinas is simply not what he claims to be. If he won't even tell the truth about his own biography, how can anyone trust anything else that he says he does, or justifies?
Last, and surely not least, is the matter of his own Jewish status (Rabbi Eidensohn – if you feel you need to cut this sentence, by all means do so…but please keep the rest of the post). I am not aware of a Beis Din of 3 dayanim in Miami whose conversions have been accepted in Israel. By his own statement above, at the time his family was praying in a shul without a Mechitsa. Allegedly his entire family converted. Who would convert an entire family who attends a synagogue that’s not even Orthodox? Would he even count as a Jew in Israel?
Jersey Girl,
ReplyDeleteThe whackos in your family claim to have been converted to Judaism and then on xmas day (or eve, hwtever) sneak off to their local church for services. If you do have some yichus, it has been offset by the crazies.
Those crazies obviously are living a lie. No sincere convert to ANY belief system would do what you say they do (go to church on xmas and easter while secretly living as super-frum Jews all year long).
And YOU thrive on insulting others who do not share your neurons and bizarre way of thinking.
Sure, you may know some of the halachot. But you behave more like an evil robot, spewing out negativity and not comprehending the fact that you are dealing with live people, with real emotions and heavy-duty issues, which enabled them to travel from the goyishe world (whether a former idoloter like myself or a ger) into the loving arms of HaKadosh Baruch Hu!
Baruch Hashem that you aren't the gatekeeper of Hashem's arms, as those metphorical arms would be emptier than my local Reform "synagogue" is every Shabbat morning.
It must be that whackos attract one another. Stop being so damn mean and show some compassion for once!
Are Bright Eyes & Jersey Girl married, secret lovers or simply one & the same person?
ReplyDeleteThe amount of hatred put forth by these so-called "religious" Jews sickens me to no end. It is EXACTLY this attitude that drove me into the arms of Christian missionaries. I is because of those like YOU that I prayed and worshiped Jesus as a god!
You are full of venom, hate, are judgmental and lack any semblance of common compassion.
When I, who was born of 2 fully halachic Jewish parents, started to investigate what exactly "TRUTH" was (as my Hebrew School experience in the late 70s failed to do so), I decided to visit newsgroups & chat rooms (back in the early 90s before web pages like this existed).
Traditional Conservadox, Conservative and Reform had nothing to say to my soul as I grew up that way and I knew from experience how bankrupt that path is.
The only "Orthodox" Jews who responded to my inquiries were full of disgusting venom and hate, telling me "how dare" I look elsewhere besides our G-d, halacha, & Torah. The overwhelming majority told me to immdiately change my entire lifestyle, reject everything I knew and become Orthodox (their warped version)immediately.
Then the very warm and welcoming Christian missionaries got a hold of me. They directed me to Hebrew Christian congregations where they have Torah scrolls, arks, tallism, kippot, tzitzis, recite the shema, some of the amidah, say kaddish, and "daven" on Saturdays.
There was no contest!
It took me six long years to break free after realizing that they had enthusiam & ruach but not emes.
Now I have emes, & I try to infuse my davening and learning with ruach
It is my life's goal to bring lost Yidden back to Hashem & Torah. But I do it with compassion, with understanding, with a heart, etc.
I rebuke all those who use the techniques and behavior of Bright Eyes & Jersey Girl. You may think what you are doing is correct, but I guarantee to you with NO DOUBT, that all you are doing is driving away lurkers and all those reading your mean posts.
You will have to answer to Hakosh Boruch Hu yourself when He asks you why you drove hundred of precious Yidden into a life of atheism, Jews for jesus and every other false belief system that gladly & warmly wants to accept Jews as their members.
Baruch Hashem there exists wonderful kiruv organizations as well as Chabad (I can imagine how much you love them as well) that think & behave exactly the opposite way you do.
Bright Eyes,
ReplyDeleteYou are an outright liar.
You wrote:
"If you look further at the Kulanu newsletter, you will see that their “Anousim and Jewish-Christian Affairs Coordinator” is none other than Yaffah Batya DaCosta, who is a known missionary. Kulanu, an organization which Vinas supports, says right there in the newsletter that they offer “conversion when requested."
I know Yaffa personally and she is NOT a missionary.
You better ask Hashem for forgiveness, son!
Spreading lashon hara like this will take a heavy toll on your self-absorbed nonsense-spewing soul.
You must also be a Democrat as you spew lies about what you know nothing about!
The two sat at the head of the Beit Din, which seems odd since those who assume that position must be eligible to rule on capital offenses as well.
ReplyDelete==========================
IIRC R'YBS posited that when bet din was acting in a non-voting manner (lkiyum hadavar) thena ger could be part of the equation but on voting issues they would not vote.
KT
Joel Rich
to the former J for J:
ReplyDeleteYou are to be commended for your unyielding search for the truth.
Here's a recent news item on Yaffa Batya De Costa:
"*_Yaffah daCosta_** *spoke at one session. She was raised as a Roman Catholic, but has since found that her ancestors were probably Portugese Jews that were forcibly converted by the Catholic inquisition. She has 30 years experience working as an adult educator and management consultant, but also produces her own radio talk show teaching Torah to Christians.
DaCosta’s message was essentially a book-report on "Jesus the Pharisee" by Orthodox Rabbi Harvey Falk. She asked, "Who are we supposed to exceed in terms of righteousness? The Jews?? No, the scribes and Pharisees" (Matt 5:17-20). DaCosta explained that beginning around 30 BCE, two schools of Pharisees developed, the School of Hillel and the School of Shammai. Shammai said that the only way Gentiles could be in the World To Come was to keep the 613 commandments and all of oral law. Hillel said "no". This same argument was found in Acts 15.
DaCosta explained that there were over 350 major arguments between the Schools of Hillel and Shammai. Yeshua nearly always supported the Hillel position. In 70 CE (A.D.), the year the temple was destroyed, the Halachah [offical, binding teaching] was decided in favor of Hillel. Rabbinic Judaism believes that the reason for the destruction was "hatred without cause", which turned out to be the severe hatred the Jews had for the Gentile world, especially the occupying Romans. This hatred was a doctrine of Shammai and abhorred by Hillel. For centuries, most of the Christian world that justified hatred of the Jews from the scriptures did not realize that they were basing their hatred on arguments against the Shammai school which had been long dead. The official Rabbinic position today is to not hate others but to love them, respect them and honor them.
DaCosta posed this question: "You Sabbath keepers, you rest from your labors and keep the Sabbath holy, yet you engage in usery and interest, you engage in unjust weights and measures, you make covenants with the ungodly and their gods. Would those who read about this statement 2000 years later consider me to be one from your midst or as an outsider, bashing you?" She said that she would probably be considered an outsider, even though she was here as a part of the group. Similarly, then, daCosta asked: could Jesus have been *less* of an outsider to the Pharisee community than we previously have thought?
—Norman Edwards & Norman Arthur"
I don't usually see Jewish people teaching lessons by quoting Jesus, and especially not by referring to him as Yeshua, nor by referring to the Rabbis of the age as Pharisees.
She is still a Christian. It's not mean or insensitive to say that a person who is born Christian who then teaches Christianity to Christians is still a Christian.
Batya's own biography states she is:
"a lay religious educator in the Jewish Roots Movement of Christianity. She writes a monthly d'var Torah column for non-Jews in the DFW Christian Heritage newspaper and has also been an educator on Christian radio for nearly 7 years"
Here's a nice article from the Jews for Jesus website about the Jewish Roots Movement that she has been involved in for many years:
http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/havurah/4_1/jewishroots
One notable quote from this article says:
"they call Gentiles to a Torah-observant and/or festival observant lifestyle as a means of drawing closer to Jesus and being conformed to His image."
I stand by my statement. She is a missionary, and her latest mission is convincing Hispanics that they have Jewish roots and should come to Israel.
I think everyone likes to think of themselves as a "nice" person. I am trying to understand how it is "mean" to say that a missionary is a missionary. Are you saying that a person who reveals truths that are uncomfortable is inherently bad?
I wish you continued success in your journey.
"There are plenty of poskim who permit a ger to do avelus and even say kaddish for a biological parent."
ReplyDeletePlease direct me to these sources.
I have been close to a number of gerim who have lost their natural parents. In each case, it was poskened by a Dayyan (Ashk) of our community that the ger cannot sit shiva for his biological parent because the biological parent is not his halachic parent whether or not the parent subsequently converted.
We have been taught that one is forbidden to mourn for someone whom one does not have a halachic obligation to mourn for (this came up when many wanted to sit shiva for the Lubavitcher Rebbe who thousands considered their adopted father who brought them up in Judaism. It was forbidden)(There is an assur to sit shiva if you are not an avel YD 376:3 Gemara in Moed Katan Daf 27: and Shulchan aruch.).
The halachic relationship between a ger and his biological parents is one of "acquaintance", it is not the biological parent who brings the ger into life as a Jew, he comes on his own. Becoming a ger means becoming an orphan.
This is why we say "ger tzedek", because the degree of sacrifice and commitment that is required of a ger k'halacha is beyond the scope of comprehension of most born Jews.
A person who is priviledged to know a true ger tzedek is fortunate indeed to be able to be in the presence of a true tzaddik.
"Rabbi Eidensohn, although I am someone who generally thinks nearly all comments should be allowed so that the truth gets out, I think there is something unusually wrong in this case. Maybe it's time to disallow this person's comments."
Rabbi Eidensohn moderates this blog and allows comments deemed worthy of posting. If Rabbi Eidensohn would prefer I stop posting, I have plenty of other things to do at the computer (like working).
"Please direct me to these sources."
ReplyDeleteJust off a quick internet search, since I am not in the mood to research this. Don't act based on this non-comprehensive, one sided summary:
"Rav Ovadiah Yosef (Yechaveh Da'at Vol 6 Responsa 60) rules that a ger may say kaddish for his parents and brings a variety of sources."
Rabbi Aharon Walkin has a teshuva from the year 1933 obligating kaddish for a Christian father.
Also, see this page:
http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/?q=halachot&srch=1
under "aveilut for a non-Jew" and then under "kaddish for my non-Jewish father"
where distinctions between different acts of aveilut are made, and where he eventually allows various non-destructive acts of mourning.
R'Josh Waxman cited
ReplyDeletehttp://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/?q=halachot&srch=1
Answer:
The Halachot of mourning (sitting in low chair, torn garment etc.) should not be observed. However, it is proper to set aside a time to accept condolences, and learn Torah in the memory of a non-Jew. One may give charity in their honor and according to some authorities recite kaddish. An orthodox Jew may participate in the funeral of a gentile as long as there is no mass. The anniversary of death may be marked in above mentioned ways.
Additional answers of Rabbi Chaim Tabasky
Rav Sternbuch also allows saying kadish under certain circumstances. However this does not constitute keeping shiva and shloshim.
I don't know that he is correct in this, because I have literally done no research into other opinions other than as in shulchan aruch. But when pressed in an individual case, Rabbi Chaim Tabasky also wrote (under "kaddish for my non-Jewish father"):
ReplyDelete"The various halachot of mourning do not apply to a gentile. On the other hand, there is no prohibition of sitting in a low chair for seven days, accepting condolences, and other aspects of mourning. Kriah (tearing garment) should not be done as clothing should not be destroyed except for a halachic obligation. The rules of "aninut" (the exemptions from mitzvot during the period before the burial) would not apply.
Correct, kaddish is open to dispute, as I indicated earlier."
Thus, when pressed, he seems to allow for "sitting in a low chair for seven days, accepting condolences, and other aspects of mourning," which would approximately be shiva. Which is why I wrote "he eventually allows various non-destructive acts of mourning."
Kol Tuv,
Josh
Wow, there are many posts here that have either a false facade of or no humility whatsoever. I have to say that I happened onto this blog completely by chance as I was searching for shiur from Rabbi Soloveichick. I have never seen such troubling speech from the perspective of lashon harah. My Rav just finished giving many lessons specifically about this issue. One of the things people seem to ignore is the fact that speech does not qualify as lashon harah based on whether it is true or not; rather, it is based on the destruction and pain the speech sows. Rabbi Viñas continues to have lashon hara spoken about him in spite of the fact that it is obvious that much pain and emotional damage is being caused by this speech. This is a shame and a travesty for all of us. Rabbi Viñas, I apologize for the manner in which you have been treated in this forum and I hope that others will sincerely follow in suit. Furthermore, it is quite troubling to me that although the poskim of gedolim such as Rabbi Soloveichick and Rabbi Eliyahu are known, and even quoted, that they continue to be ignored and disregarded repeatedly. Humility is lacking. Although I have found Rabbi Viñas' responses to be extremely informative it has come at the cost of personal attacks against him and his family. This is unacceptable. I now must follow Rabbi Viñas' example and stay away from this blog. I wish everybody well and hope that we all maintain our love of Torah.
ReplyDeleteShalom
Daniel M. Ramos said...
ReplyDeleteWow, there are many posts here that have either a false facade of or no humility whatsoever. I have to say that I happened onto this blog completely by chance as I was searching for shiur from Rabbi Soloveichick. I have never seen such troubling speech from the perspective of lashon harah. My Rav just finished giving many lessons specifically about this issue. One of the things people seem to ignore is the fact that speech does not qualify as lashon harah based on whether it is true or not; rather, it is based on the destruction and pain the speech sows. Rabbi Viñas continues to have lashon hara spoken about him in spite of the fact that it is obvious that much pain and emotional damage is being caused by this speech.
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I am sorry to hear that you completely misunderstand the nature of Torah discussion. If you read the gemora and poskim you will notice that they are constantly questioning the validity of the other's position. Sometimes the even express irritation and take offense at the statment of others. I have never heard that Torah disucssion is lashon harah. Please have your rebbe provide you with sources that the inquiries into the halachic basis of what Rabbi Vinas does constitutes lashon harah.
I would agree with you that this blog is not for you since you find open ended discussions upsetting. It obviously that Rabbi Vinas feels the same way.
Anyone who want to come up with conclusions such as Rabbi Vinas does - and keeps them private and doesn't act on them - is not the object of scrutiny.
Rabbi Vinas is very much a public figure as a rav of a shul, who is featured in the New York Times, who is interviewed in Spanish Catholic newspapers regarding the nature of Judaism. He is also involved in promoting the conversion of those he perceives as descendants of anusim.
All those public activities - as a Jewish rabbi - bear scrutiny and are legitimately criticized and questioned.
I see that you are explicity disagreeing with the psak of the Chazon Ish in these matters. I would suggest that you are the one who is lacking in humility and knowledge of Torah.
Please ask your rebbe whether your comments are permitted according to the halacha.