tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post9093754906182746982..comments2024-03-28T21:30:33.665+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Erosion of trust is the root of all Divorce impasses.Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger117125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-18017806530305938882013-12-30T05:18:26.098+02:002013-12-30T05:18:26.098+02:00Halochah can not be changed we get it. So we need ...Halochah can not be changed we get it. So we need to find a way within the confinement of Halochah to resolve these impasses. <br /><br />Assuming for a second that up until the divorce request there was issues (at least as far as the wife is concerned) but trust wasn't one of them. Then creating an environment where the husband distrusts the wife to such an extent that he sees her as a terrorist is quite obviously the wrong way to go.<br /><br />These organizations or Rabbanim enabling Arkaos and promoting the distrust course has to be stopped immediately. <br /><br />The only way I can see accomplishing the task is to point out their anti halachic activities to the public at large. The Prodfather Epstein is a start but who was behind him. Which Beis Din? Lets start with that.<br />shloimy.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39872698253718157442013-12-30T00:58:11.265+02:002013-12-30T00:58:11.265+02:00The bittul seruv did not just point out problems w...The bittul seruv did not just point out problems with the seruv. It went further than that. It made factual determinations and my problem is with that part of the bittul seruv.<br /><br />We both agree that the Epstein case and the Weiss case are different. With respect to Epstein, I think the marriage is clearly over and he should give a Get for his own sake. I dont DEMAND anything and I am not a member of ORA. Nor have I ever participated in their rallies. I just dont think its completely assur. <br /><br />Dodelson did not prohibit Weiss from seeing his child. Either way, according to you going to secular court is always assur so even if she did deny access, that doesnt allow him to go to secular court shelo k'din. Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52730748756730088442013-12-30T00:33:34.033+02:002013-12-30T00:33:34.033+02:00Wow! I cant believe you are actually wishing harm ...Wow! I cant believe you are actually wishing harm on a fellow blog commentator. <br /><br />Stan has called me all kinds of nasty things but I dont think he has ever actually wished me harm.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-61545025855232104692013-12-29T19:37:45.212+02:002013-12-29T19:37:45.212+02:00weiss didn't need to send hazmanos he was doin...weiss didn't need to send hazmanos he was doing all he needed to to work with the bais din she went to and they ignored himshiminoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84630964700801358012013-12-29T19:35:32.788+02:002013-12-29T19:35:32.788+02:00james; weiss replied and if the bais din didn'...james; weiss replied and if the bais din didn't like his answer they should have told him but instead the corrupt BD decided to just ignore what he said, and why do you think when dodelson filed for a divorce she did nothing wrong she never had a hetter for it<br /><br />well; he didn't want to pay an astronomical amount of money for a man in kollel to a woman who would do just fine without it and only wants it to ruin him financially as much as possible and even if he never gave a penny his son wouldn't lack anything so why exactly is that not caring for his child?? shiminoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43718791258778801552013-12-29T16:30:06.192+02:002013-12-29T16:30:06.192+02:00ben the best i can wish naive fools like James and...ben the best i can wish naive fools like James and you is to be on the opposite end of a machashefaoh in a Brooklyn supreme court in front of someone like rachel adams to open your eyes to how the system really works. Only then will you be removed from your blindness when you have not only been bankrupted and dispossessed of all your assets but owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and wasted 5 years of the best years of your life in the bowels of this unfair system and your wife shouting aguna when she is really a rodef and entitled to only one thing from bais din al pi halocho. only then will naive hypocrites like you open your eyes to the utter garbage you daily spew.on behalf of these wicked rashantahsanti shekernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-24070524882676713112013-12-29T16:24:42.682+02:002013-12-29T16:24:42.682+02:00James you stop your nonsense. To the vast majority...James you stop your nonsense. To the vast majority of your totally false allegations my previous post clearly not only referred to but utterly refuted.<br /><br />Which part of this did you not understand? "You claim that Rav Gestetner didn't follow halocho because he never spoke to Tamar. Her written showed what she felt. More importantly how do you mesarev someone when mo"us olai cant be used to force a Get. Even more egregiously even if you could tamar walked out of bais din. I am sorry to break it to you but your position s are not only illogical but seem unethical to me."<br /><br />You continue to beat a dead horse in a most unethical way ignoring the basic facts - SHE RAN AWAY FROM BAIS DIN AND HENCE IS NOT ENTITLED TO ANY RELIEF FROM BAIS DIN. Clearly once there is no siruv in the first place because she was lo tzias dina why should he even waste his time speaking to her. If you once again mention Epstein where it is black and white she broke the halocho and not entitled to relief from a bais din you are showing yourself to be completely lacking any objectivity or honesty. Tamar desrted not only her husband but bais din as well.<br /><br />Once again regarding Weiss, there could have been halachik improprieties on his part by not getting a hetter bais din and rather that of a single rov. I am not familiar with what rav moshe held and this is really the bottom line - did reb moshe hold it was not necessary to get a hetter bais din because as a great grandson of reb moshe that is what he seems to be holding. there is no doubt that this was an emergency situation - for the record the halachik violations started with gittel by moving out and refusing him proper access to the child. none of this you admit to. So let's start talking about being honest. You are so quick at pointing out Weiss halachik violations but the party who started the violations is gittel as well as her family.<br /><br />However regarding Epstein you have already shown that halocho is irrelevant by demanding a get for her even though she is not entitled to it. So stop hypocritically claiming Weiss violated halocho because clearly you have shown together with ORA your soulmates that halocho is at best irrelevant to your positions. You have also unequivocally previously declared that bais din is not acceptable to you so your opinions are full of contradictions and i am not sure if even you understand them. So you have de jure declared that you are against halocho. hence who are you to judge if rav gestetner did violate or didn;t violate halocho? <br /><br />As for claiming that Weiss never appointed another rov to represent him in zabla this is another false declaration.<br /><br />If rav gestetner is good enough for the families of the Einsteins and Soleveitchiks that is endorsement enough. The Eidah is today focused on its business empire of kashrus and will do nothing to jeopardize either this or their kidushin/ gerushin roles by fighting the rabbanut despite the rabbanut being a joke.<br /><br />What I can tell you as fact that regarding soleveitchik rav nissim karelitz backed down and admitted rav gestetner was right and not the bais din of rav nissim. Furthermore they have just worked together against the ms Chaimowitz wedding that was arranged by reb ,mendel and will produce mamzeirim so you are so wrong its not funny.<br /><br />get over the fact i accused you of not knowing Hebrew. you have done the same to me. havent lost any sleep about it.stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-39555809827200955412013-12-29T08:54:40.474+02:002013-12-29T08:54:40.474+02:00the basic assumption of this article is that women...the basic assumption of this article is that women are emotionally inferior to men, in a significant way. this assumption is so completely misogynistic and 19th century that i am having trouble believing that anyone still believes it. Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-60840369480410215852013-12-29T03:06:45.827+02:002013-12-29T03:06:45.827+02:00If you are really serious and in need of a family ...If you are really serious and in need of a family lawyer, contact that moderator and he will know how to reach me. Otherwise, I am not going to post names of attorneys so you can make things up and ruin their reputation online.<br /><br />The shulchan aruch is very clear. There is no exception for diary entries. That is considered hearsay. It is a violation of shulchan aruch any way you slice it and he will pay for it in the next world. (He is already paying for it in this world - he is a total joke and no respsected dayan in eretz yisrael will support him or accept him. Dont believe me? Ask the moderator to go to rav shternbuch and get a written letter of support stating that the Eidah will accept him.)<br />There is a reason why you have to meet people. You need to know that the diary was serious. You need to ask why she wrote it or if she meant it. You already admitted that he thinks raglayim ladavar is an exception to the shulchan aruch based on other rishonim. Go look up your comments on the post about the bitul seruv for aharon.<br />You claim that going to arkoos is assur but then when i point out that weiss did that (without also going to BD!) you say he got a heter. Well, tamar also spoke to a rav and so do many other women. You say that those rabbanim are not acceptable. So, in your world, the very worst thing you can do is go to secular court EXCEPT in those cases where the guy gets a heter BUT only if the heter comes from one of the few rabbanim you approve of. Rabbanim that nobody else in the world approves of.<br />Stan, stop the nonsense. You falsely accused me of not knowing hebrew and when it was shown that the phrase I was referring to was Yiddish, you did not apologize. Clearly, you can not be modeh to the truth.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47821943528719274882013-12-28T18:45:25.233+02:002013-12-28T18:45:25.233+02:00But if the child is so important to him, why did h...But if the child is so important to him, why did he insist on cutting child support by more than 50%?<br /><br />If the child is so important to him, he should first and foremost give all he could give to his child!Wellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21554568964720304602013-12-27T21:39:08.217+02:002013-12-27T21:39:08.217+02:00well; it's very simple why he withholds a get ...well; it's very simple why he withholds a get because he want's to be able to see his kids and want's to get back money that she took from him against halachashiminoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-68500365616124222682013-12-27T20:34:24.980+02:002013-12-27T20:34:24.980+02:00@james
What if the man refuses to go to beis din ...@james<br /><br />What if the man refuses to go to beis din because he's allready in civil court?<br /><br />What if the wife filed with the civil court first and then sent a Hazmonah?<br /><br />What if a wife got a heter arkaos ileagaly, then filed in court then sent a Hazmona?<br /><br />What if the Husband had no clue that the wife got a heter arkaos so had no chance to even stop her?<br /><br />A Din Torah can not proceed once civil litigation has begun because that puts the Beis Din under the jurisdiction of the civil court. <br /><br />This is how ORA gets it done and Meisur is unavoidable. <br /><br />They get a corrupt Beis Din to give a woman a heter arkaos. The Beis Din does not inform the husband of the heter. The husband gets served papers and is being civily sued for divorce this puts him under civil court jurisdiction.<br /><br />The Bes Din then sends a Hazmona NOT to argue the Heter Arkaos but the actual divorce. But the husband can't go because the civil proceedings have started.<br /><br />If the husband signs a Shturer Brurin which is a leagle binding arbitration agreement this is what happens. <br /><br />Since the civil proceedings have begun the civil court will put a stay to allow the arbitration to proceed. Once arbitration is completed the court has to ratify it. If the wife doesn't like it she can petition the judge to change it. The judge most likely will. The husband will say since you changed it I won't give you the Get. But its to late the binding arbitration agreement was signed the court can enforce it. Not even the Beis Din can stop the court because the court had prior jurisdiction. <br /><br />Mishpatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43179586663428685502013-12-27T17:35:22.259+02:002013-12-27T17:35:22.259+02:00@mike s.
The article clearly states the woman did...@mike s.<br /><br />The article clearly states the woman didn't want to leave. She wanted the husband to leave. <br /><br />In order to put it into perspective I will put this into a different context. <br /><br />Two partners are running a moderately successful business. In the early days they almost functioned in the same capacity but after 15 years the business has grown and the two partners now function very differently. One partner handles the products coming in and out of the warehouse while the other handles the finances enabeling the purchase and sale of the products.<br /><br />One morning the partner running the warehouse says he wants out. The finance partner can't stop him from leaving so he says what do you want to take with you. The response he got was everything, you leave and we will figure something out for you. The finance partner was in shock and so he tells his warehouse partner to go fly a kite. So the warehouse partner has the locks changed. In a very short amount of time the business colapses.<br /><br />Women don't ask for a divorce these days. If that's what they were truly asking for they would mostly get it because most men are reasonable. What women actually mean when they ask for divorce is that they want to divorce the man from her, the children, property pretty much everything.<br /><br />Now do you get it. MTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-52508202495641135992013-12-27T17:13:10.225+02:002013-12-27T17:13:10.225+02:00James you claim you don't know an honest bais ...James you claim you don't know an honest bais din in the US. I dont know an honest court in the US. You claim to know an ethical family lawyer. I challenge you to name one. <br /><br />You claim that Rav Gestetner didnt follow halocho because he never spoke to Tamar. Her written showed what she felt. More imoortantly how do you mesarev someone when mo"us olai cant be used to force a Get. Even more egregiously even if you could tamar walkwd out of bais din. I am sorry to break it to you but your position s are not only illogical but seem unethical to me. As I tild you, rav wholhandler is not around so I cant answer for him. I do know weiss offered someone else. stannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-64336730035128329172013-12-27T16:59:17.311+02:002013-12-27T16:59:17.311+02:00Well: Rabbein Gershom gave wives the right to refu...Well: Rabbein Gershom gave wives the right to refuse to divorce; he did not give wives the right to divorce. And Rabbeinu Gershom is my biggest proof. Rabbeinu Gershom gave wives the same right husband's always had -- namely to refuse to divorce. So we see from Rabbeinu Gershom how important it is for a single spouse to unilaterally refuse their spouse's demand for divorce. Rabbeinu Gershom even extended that right from only husband's to give the same right to wives. The right to refuse their spouse's demand for a divorce.Donnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-50946504006418478052013-12-27T15:11:03.674+02:002013-12-27T15:11:03.674+02:00MF, I think you are putting the cart before the ho...MF, I think you are putting the cart before the horse.<br /><br />ben dovAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-26091309911419456012013-12-27T14:33:19.189+02:002013-12-27T14:33:19.189+02:00@James - "Dodelson did nothing wrong" -...@James - "Dodelson did nothing wrong" - You're suffering another bout of feminist delusions. <br /><br />You and your ORA masters have created feminist goddess delusions in your mind. These feminist goddesses can never commit any wrong, they can only be the victims of vindictive, male chauvinist husbands, and the ORA knights in shining armor are going to rescue them from Torah oppression and male chauvinist oppression. <br /><br />Sorry to smash your goddesses, but destroying a family, abducting a child and preventing the father from seeing his child are wrong. Alienating a child from his father is wrong. Engaging ORA goons to harass and humiliate a Jewish father and his family, and destroy their parnassa, is wrong. Filing a full divorce lawsuit in family court is wrong. Dragging a Jewish father and Torah Judaism through the sewer of the secular feminist media is wrong. EmesLeYaacovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-47048410031799712742013-12-27T13:27:21.822+02:002013-12-27T13:27:21.822+02:00I don't know the individuals involved at all. ...I don't know the individuals involved at all. But I would ask how often is it really best for the family to have the wife and mother as an unwilling participant in the marriage (whether reasonably or otherwise) and resenting being stuck in a marriage she wants to leave?Mike S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-33108316756986301832013-12-27T13:10:10.878+02:002013-12-27T13:10:10.878+02:00If he is such a nice and loving husband and father...If he is such a nice and loving husband and father, why does his wife want out?<br /><br />Has he not found an explanation yet?<br /><br />Might it be that, despite loving her, he really never got to know her over all those years?Wellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-8446809668456328512013-12-27T13:06:29.557+02:002013-12-27T13:06:29.557+02:00@dovid eidenson
Why did you not answer to "wi...@dovid eidenson<br />Why did you not answer to "wiser, not braver" what is the halachical situation in her case.<br /><br />I would be very interested.<br /><br />So far, the boorish commentators on this blog stated that a husband had a right to disregard hilchot nidda and still stay married...<br />Wellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36321842056460199492013-12-27T13:03:58.649+02:002013-12-27T13:03:58.649+02:00Trust might have eroded because the husband behave...Trust might have eroded because the husband behaved like a boor for so and so many years, and the wife does not trust him to change after all that time. Or because he caused wounds that cannot be healed.<br /><br />Did that ever occur to you?<br /><br />All those whining get-refusers never have the idea that they might be the source of the problem. That might be the main source of the problem.Wellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-66659399311335267942013-12-27T13:01:45.444+02:002013-12-27T13:01:45.444+02:00Rabbi Gershon could not understand that either, so...Rabbi Gershon could not understand that either, so he granted the wife the right to refuse divorce.<br /><br />I am just saying that your representation that the torah wants stability is wrong, since, originally, divorce could be had on any whim of the husband, provided he paid the ketuba.Wellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-3272707584071432382013-12-27T07:05:00.563+02:002013-12-27T07:05:00.563+02:00First, The BDA are not my buddies.
Second, If send...First, The BDA are not my buddies.<br />Second, If sending hazmanas in the USA where there is no BD jurisdiction will cause you irreparable harm, almost everyone agrees that you can go to court to protect yourself. BUT, you must still, at the same time, send hazmanas and try to remove it to BD. Weiss didnt do that and his court filing was not of the type to necessitate bypassing the BD system.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-56227927743425339202013-12-27T04:29:32.630+02:002013-12-27T04:29:32.630+02:00It would be a mekach taus case. She did not know ...It would be a mekach taus case. She did not know he was an arvayan and if she would go to B"D right away they could force a get.Dan Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394601755894501631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-24738617420174493392013-12-27T04:25:37.483+02:002013-12-27T04:25:37.483+02:00Well: It is sad that you consider the Torah HaKEdo...Well: It is sad that you consider the Torah HaKEdosha to be (to quote your exact words) "the problem".<br /><br />No, "Well", the Torah is correct and you are incorrect even if you cannot understand why the Torah gave husbands the unconditional right to divorce and denied wives the right to divorce.Donnoreply@blogger.com