tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post7322081896657166156..comments2024-03-28T21:30:33.665+02:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Abuse & the sounds of silence - Yated editorialDaas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21995205905735219602009-03-31T16:24:00.000+03:002009-03-31T16:24:00.000+03:00My understanding of his use of "gezerah" is that t...My understanding of his use of "gezerah" is that the rabbis who allegedly lead us were blinded to the truth and forced into inaction by a decree from on High. <BR/><BR/>Effectively, he blames God for: rabbis abusing children; rabbis covering up for the abuse; rabbis being blind to the realities of the long-term effects of the abuse; rabbis intimidating and threatening victims; rabbis being more concerned with the financial health of their "moisdois" than with the well-being of children, and rabbis completely and improperly, naively and foolishly, not telling victims of crimes to go the proper authorities. It's really all God's fault, He decreed it, because how could such brilliant, compassionate men make such a profound mistake for so long?<BR/><BR/>God didn't decree their wrong behavior: they adopted it for themselves. What God may decree on a child, we'll never know, but as with all sin, it's not for you to undertake to do the sin; let another do it. Yet here, the rabbis committed atrocious sins of omission--and, in some cases of intimidation, commission as well----and that's what's so repulsive.<BR/><BR/>They are no longer trustworthy to be listened to, they know it, and now we all know it. They misled, threatened, intimidated and hurt this community for 50 years because of financial self-interest in not wanting the inevitable lawsuits. That's leadership? We need another paradigm. Rabbinic leadership does not seem to be working out. <BR/>Everytime they fail miserably it's a gezerah? That was the excuse for the Holocaust. Now this. Ad mosai?shmuelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-89412959669322776702009-03-30T20:16:00.000+03:002009-03-30T20:16:00.000+03:00his focus is on lifting the silence. that can only...his focus is on lifting the silence. that can only happen if we get help. i don't think this in any way takes away from the fact that we should have been protected. it's just not what he claimed the article was about, and therefore not the focus. these are two seperate issues. yes, i should have been protected, but now that it has happened, i need help to overcome the challenges that this brought.<BR/><BR/>and what's the issue with calling it a gezeira? is that really a problem? i believe that it was a gezeira that i was hurt. that doesn't mean that i'm happy about it, or that i want other people to get hurt. just that obviously, for whatever reason, God wanted this happen to me.little sheephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002942154389258717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29538535984728586382009-03-30T06:12:00.000+03:002009-03-30T06:12:00.000+03:001) acknowledges that American gedolim have been aw...<EM>1) acknowledges that American gedolim have been aware that there has been a significant problems for years - without doing anything about it.</EM><BR/><BR/>Incorrect. Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L was fighting these molesting Rabbi's already 20+ years ago. In fact, Rav Miller's life was threatened as a result of his efforts against these perpetrator's! (He did NOT back down as a result of these threats.)<BR/><BR/><EM>2) he claims that our American religious leaders were ignorant about how to handle the problem - so why didn't they ask the police, why didn't they ask psychologists and social workers?</EM><BR/><BR/>Perhaps they believed the police etc. was not the correct approach to fighting this? (A thought.)<BR/><BR/><EM>3) why has there been an active repression of talk about these issues and pressure on the families not to come forth?</EM><BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/><EM>5) why is his focus on belatedly helping the victims handle their suffering without acknowledging that a significant cause of the problem are family, friends and rabbis who should should have been protecting the children instead of abusing them?</EM><BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/><EM>6) what is this talk about the abuse being a gezeirah? Does he think that G-d's name is being sanctified by the abuse of these unfortunate children?! That is obscene!</EM><BR/><BR/>Agreed.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-73146593268585710832009-03-29T22:51:00.000+03:002009-03-29T22:51:00.000+03:00"why has there been an active repression of talk a..."why has there been an active repression of talk about these issues and pressure on the families not to come forth? "<BR/><BR/>"I wonder if the bloggers can/will take any credit for this change of policy by the Yated"<BR/><BR/>I give credit to the Yated for finally addressing the issue. I also note that Hamodia advertised and discussed the molestation conference last year in Boro Park aimed at education of parents.<BR/><BR/>For better of for worse, the internet changes the way information is spread in the Charedi world. To quote from an article in the Jewish Week(" Black Hat Meets Blog"):<BR/><BR/>"Whether or not the Internet proves helpful or hurtful or a bit of both, most community observers say the Web has forever changed the way Orthodox individuals interact with the world.<BR/><BR/>“The Internet poses an incredibly serious threat to the status quo in these communities — as it does to any society that controls information and suppresses public dissent,” said Hella Winston, a sociologist and author of “Unchosen: The Hidden Lives of Hasidic Rebels.”<BR/><BR/>Rabbi Yaakove Horowitz in Human Problems (Mishpacha Issue # 194) discusses the ”virtual media ban in our charedi papers on any negative news" :<BR/><BR/>"In addition to the ‘standard’ cognitive dissonance described above, two factors contribute greatly to its staying power[of drugs and abuse] in our community. The first is the fact that we are, Baruch Hashem, surrounded by evidence of the astounding successes of our Yeshiva/Beis Yakov systems; thousands of wonderful, spiritual teenagers. How can the negative information we hear about compete with the superb things we see? Additionally, there is a virtual media ban in our charedi papers on any negative news. Few things add to the disconnect and cognitive dissonance more than hearing frightening things about an event such as the arrest of a frum drug dealer or pedophile in the secular media, while our papers completely ignore its existence. We ought to be enormously proud of the first factor, but I suggest that we must end the practice of the second. <BR/><BR/>The only way to combat cognitive dissonance is to discuss these matters in our public squares, painful as it may be; which is why Mishpacha magazine deserves our appreciation for publishing these columns. Trust me, I wish there was a more discreet way to do this, and if any of our readers have any suggestions for creating venues for this dialogue, please contact me with them. But in the meantime, I will continue to write these essays, as I feel that straight talk and education is the only way to significantly improve things. "<BR/><BR/>Obviously, the issue is also how to discuss these issues in a way which is appropriate according to the Torah.Baruch Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852916443001837134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29941894882141174432009-03-29T17:10:00.000+03:002009-03-29T17:10:00.000+03:00"Equally clear, this inattention was not a functio..."Equally clear, this inattention was not a function of some high level conspiracy to harm people or cover up for criminals or abet nefarious activities."<BR/><BR/>It couldn't be the fact that people were worried about the legal and financial ramifications of such activities being brought to light about their mosdot. No, no, no one must not suggest that.Bartley Kulpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-37763749260945013522009-03-29T17:06:00.000+03:002009-03-29T17:06:00.000+03:00Strong words from Rav Sternbuch. I share similar ...Strong words from Rav Sternbuch. I share similar sentiments.<BR/><BR/>For five years, we are told, the Torah U'Mesorah Vaad Roshei Yeshivos is working on this problem. Five years! All without public disclosure, accountability, or input. <BR/><BR/>And we wonder why we are in this matzav.Elliot Pasik, Esq.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-10480742120433976492009-03-29T13:11:00.000+03:002009-03-29T13:11:00.000+03:00I wonder if the bloggers can/will take any credit ...I wonder if the bloggers can/will take any credit for this change of policy by the Yated?<BR/>Judging by the proximity of current events, it most probably has to do with the recent suicide of an abuse victim in Lakewood.Freelance Kiruv Maniac (Mr. Hyde)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10298176204317506218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-23887631161594113512009-03-29T08:19:00.000+03:002009-03-29T08:19:00.000+03:00oh, one more thing-i have more problems with this ...oh, one more thing-i have more problems with this weeks article in the english language mishpacha magazine than this one. this article is only <I>claims</I> to be about opening up about abuse. the mishpacha article claims to be about "preventing, identifying, and halting abuse" (i'm looking at the cover of the magazine right now) and fails to actually give any information on how to go about doing so.little sheephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002942154389258717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-21907137377218870672009-03-29T08:17:00.000+03:002009-03-29T08:17:00.000+03:00i think this article was a great step forward. yes...i think this article was a great step forward. yes, more needs to be done, but something is better than nothing.<BR/><BR/>i find it quite interesting that everyone thinks rabbanim in america aren't doing...or are denying...and all that. i've had the rabbanim on my side from day one! i'm wondering how it is that my case seems to be so radically different than any other case i hear of...little sheephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002942154389258717noreply@blogger.com