tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post6435137495650363895..comments2024-03-29T12:21:24.976+03:00Comments on Daas Torah - Issues of Jewish Identity: Seminary Scandal - The blood libel of an absurd RICO Claim: Using an Atom Bomb instead of a Key to open the door of their home!Daas Torahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07252904288544083215noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-75147933384056211962014-08-12T15:06:10.715+03:002014-08-12T15:06:10.715+03:00My point is that i'm not sure that fraud is a ...My point is that i'm not sure that fraud is a "crazy" charge if they in fact engaged in fraud as explained. Are you referring to the RICO charges? If so I tend to agree with you. But having some bad charges doesn't take away from the merits of the correct charges.Moshenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-84380354128939804762014-08-12T11:19:30.485+03:002014-08-12T11:19:30.485+03:00@Moshe so what is the signifcance that you underst...@Moshe so what is the signifcance that you understand why the lawyers make crazy charges - it doesn't change that they are highly damaging and highly likely to be toss out by the courtDaas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-36354852194310001502014-08-12T05:58:33.034+03:002014-08-12T05:58:33.034+03:00Again, I'm not saying there definitely was fra...Again, I'm not saying there definitely was fraud, just that strictly legally I can understand where the lawyers are coming from on this point. It needs clarification.Moshenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-28424147358545278292014-08-12T05:56:37.371+03:002014-08-12T05:56:37.371+03:00I am no lawyer but what real estate/assets? The no...I am no lawyer but what real estate/assets? The non-profits'? Unless you mean that concurrent to the sale meisels sold yarmush some private assets. Or that yarmush bought assets from the non-profit just before the "transfer of ownership". But that would seem to me like money laundering and a conflict of intersest of immense magnitude.Moshenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-45788135425939300302014-08-11T21:53:13.055+03:002014-08-11T21:53:13.055+03:00@Moshe - non profits can not be sold but they can ...@Moshe - non profits can not be sold but they can be transferred to new managment along with the sale of real estate and other assests.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-119518588342927552014-08-10T18:47:09.905+03:002014-08-10T18:47:09.905+03:00I think it's quite likely that parents demandi...I think it's quite likely that parents demanding a refund would prevail in a din Torah. But R. Eidensohn is correct that a din Torah is required.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-88262270780369066322014-08-10T17:16:47.050+03:002014-08-10T17:16:47.050+03:00Not only did they authorize it, they orchestrated ...Not only did they authorize it, they orchestrated it. I have heard from a parent who was at a meeting called by R. Fuerst and Gottesman that they urged them to sign on to the lawsuit. R. Fuerst even called it his "psak" that they do so.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-46674309071199677062014-08-10T16:24:40.009+03:002014-08-10T16:24:40.009+03:00I move your answer to a separate post
http://daat...I move your answer to a separate post<br /><br />http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2014/08/seminary-scandal-rico-claim-yerachmiel.htmlDaas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-2260611343114764962014-08-10T15:22:27.846+03:002014-08-10T15:22:27.846+03:00Rabbi, you have invoked Godwin's Law. The disc...Rabbi, you have invoked Godwin's Law. The discussion is over.Mike Bashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-65179944488448234492014-08-10T12:18:37.422+03:002014-08-10T12:18:37.422+03:00Why does it matter if he created the seminaries sp...Why does it matter if he created the seminaries specifically for the purpose of sexually assaulting girls? The fact is that he DID and continued to use his powerful position to harm innocent girls. And just because any of you find it hard to believe that a Rabbi of such "great" stature such as the Rabbi from the IBD, would be a part of anything shady, does not mean that he is innocent. I personally experienced something like this when I was getting divorced through the Israeli Rabbinical Court in Tel Aviv. The person assigned to my case, who was in a position of power and authority- getting me a date assigned for my get- asked me sexually explicit questions and forced me to listen to stories of his own sexual exploits. I was an innocent young orthodox woman, age 27, getting divorced, and he preyed on me and my need for him to get me a court date. Who knows how many other women he preyed on, perhaps going even further, G-d forbid! People abuse their positions of authority all the time- and should be subjected to the law just like anyone else. This person who abused his powerful position with me, wore a black velvet kippa and looked like any other frum person you would meet. And he had the power of the Israeli Rabbinical Court behind him. Kol Hakavod to the ones filing this law suit which I'm sure was fully thought out and backed up with solid evidence before filing. These people should be applauded for stepping forward no matter how many Rabbis or Gedolim come into question.rivkanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-71028127482479325032014-08-10T12:15:19.735+03:002014-08-10T12:15:19.735+03:00I don't know. Good question.I don't know. Good question.Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-29687180028432188052014-08-10T11:45:16.883+03:002014-08-10T11:45:16.883+03:00@essyalways - the parents were not told that they ...@essyalways - the parents were not told that they could not get their money back - they were told that this was a monetary dispute that needed a beis din to resolve. why is that surprising?. The seminaries have after an intensive investigation by Rav Shafran's beis din (which is superior to the Chicago Beis Din in both dayanim and experience in dealing with abuse issues) been declared safe. Parents claim otherwise - you need a beis din to resolve the issue.<br /><br />The IBD did not say that other seminaries could not accept the girls - it said they could not actively recruit them.<br /><br />At this point it seems similar to the question of whether it is better to eat meat that never had a shaila or one that there was a question about but a Rav pasken it was kosher. Some prefer the first but there are other who say that not accepting the latter is apikorsus since it denies the validty of rabbinic psak.Daas Torahhttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-20818973109743777342014-08-10T10:22:12.374+03:002014-08-10T10:22:12.374+03:00Make up your mind. Am I Gottesman or a girl, or is...Make up your mind. Am I Gottesman or a girl, or is Gottesman secretly a girl?<br /><br />Now let me get serious. I have talked to victims, as well as their friends, relatives, rabbis and teachers. Some of these victims were not in touch with CBD.Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-62485975977528702902014-08-10T10:15:33.330+03:002014-08-10T10:15:33.330+03:00That may be OK for goyim especially overblown ones...That may be OK for goyim especially overblown ones like Sarah Palin. Jews are historically conscious and thus much more circumscribed about when they use the term blood libel. <br /><br /><br />Alan Dershowitz's defense of Sarah Palin's rhetoric was a lawyer's gambit and shouldn't be credited as a particularly widespread understanding by Jews. I know a lot of Jews, liberal and conservative who cringed at Palin's rhetoric.<br /><br /><br /><br />In five years of blogging I have often been harshly critical of individuals and groups but I have never called a Jew a Nazi or accused a Jew of a blood libel. <br /><br /><br /><br />Rabbi Eidensohn you are a nuanced writer. Please reconsider your headline and terminology.Yerachmiel Lopinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-48506545947366169442014-08-10T10:04:33.722+03:002014-08-10T10:04:33.722+03:00The IBD never said parents cannot opt out of the s...The IBD never said parents cannot opt out of the seminaries. Nor did they say other seminaries cannot accept the girls. They said only that other seminaries cannot recruit them.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-26444892993155852112014-08-10T09:59:15.610+03:002014-08-10T09:59:15.610+03:00The IBD never said the girls cannot switch seminar...The IBD never said the girls cannot switch seminaries, nor did they say other seminaries cannot accept girls who wish to switch. They said only that other seminaries cannot recruit the girls. I don't see where R. Fuerst's letter says anything different.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-89206755927663248702014-08-10T09:57:24.155+03:002014-08-10T09:57:24.155+03:00The litigants are owed no "pound of flesh.&qu...The litigants are owed no "pound of flesh." Their daughters have not attended the schools. They are next year's parents. This is about their deposits.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-77739501524624385112014-08-10T09:54:23.990+03:002014-08-10T09:54:23.990+03:00The CBD orchestrated the lawsuit, as I heard from ...The CBD orchestrated the lawsuit, as I heard from one of the parents contacted by R. Fuerst and Gottesman.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-81074272434227666202014-08-10T09:51:42.429+03:002014-08-10T09:51:42.429+03:00I don't believe R. Gartner has control of any ...I don't believe R. Gartner has control of any accounts. And even if he did, he would not be permitted to hand out money to whoever demands it. The IBD holds that demands to return deposits are a Choshen Mishpat question that need a din Torah, as I heard both R. Gartner and R. Malinowitz say on a teleconference call. Without a psak from a beis din, how could he return money that does not belong to him? Unlike certain other supposed dayanim, he actually takes the halachah seriously.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-43156727406072207302014-08-10T09:46:19.697+03:002014-08-10T09:46:19.697+03:00" i doubt the CBD gave a heter arkaot for a r..." i doubt the CBD gave a heter arkaot for a rico / class action"<br /><br />In fact, R. Fuerst orchestrated this, along with Gottesman, as I heard from one of the parents they approached. R. Fuerst pressured him to sign on, calling it a "psak." The guy was smart enough to decline.kishkeyumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-17971593026923669992014-08-10T09:45:59.104+03:002014-08-10T09:45:59.104+03:00I don't understand how they could have "u...I don't understand how they could have "used a key instead of an atom bomb" when all other options were closed to them: they could not get their huge deposit back (keep on mind that many families take on a second mortgage or a loan to pay for sem) and could not stomach to send their daughters to seminaries where terrible things had happened. True, the perpetrator is (maybe?) Removed, but its the same administration. Who would risk theory daughters purity? Add to that that all other seminaries were advised not to accept these girls either...really, did these parents have a choice?essyalways .noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-46110282140979928102014-08-10T07:03:09.183+03:002014-08-10T07:03:09.183+03:00Honesty, you clearly have no understanding of how ...<em>Honesty, you clearly have no understanding of how the legal system or halacha works.</em><br /><br /><br />Please, enlighten me. Thank you.Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-63405651036489957752014-08-10T06:37:12.810+03:002014-08-10T06:37:12.810+03:00What is the point you are making?What is the point you are making?Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-5909229794981451332014-08-10T06:37:00.594+03:002014-08-10T06:37:00.594+03:00Your point?Your point?Honestynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309929059139673041.post-69822568203317736842014-08-10T05:11:32.093+03:002014-08-10T05:11:32.093+03:00Your outcry against the "Rico aspect" is...Your outcry against the "Rico aspect" is pathetic. Please clarify what you are talking about with the "key" etc. You're really not making sense. <br />The guy was sexually assaulting girls while charging parents a fortune. How on earth are you defending him? Better question why??! <br />No normal parent would want to send their kid to a sem in disarray, where the owner was just thrown out, where the staff have not yet been cleared of negligence etc etc. <br />All they asked for was a refund on the deposit!!! All you do is scream about whether the degree of lawsuit is justified... You are clearly splitting hairs and have totally lost the argument.adsfdsnoreply@blogger.com